Rotations

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KC MO

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Anyone who has information on rotations, I am all ears. I am an MS-I trying to find out what I need to know about rotations before it comes time to schedule them...for example, I have heard that it is very important to schedule your rotations where you would like to attend residency so that you can network. How much of a factor is this in selecting a residency? Also, I would like to get the best training possible, suggestions on rotations that are really good in their particular areas would be great. Also, off the topic of rotations, I read on a previous topic that "AMA" residencies will accept you before the match. Is this a true statement? If so, how soon before the "MD" match will they let you know, and are high numbers of DOs accepted into MD matches (is that something to be concerned about?
 
I am a student MS-IV at UHS-COM. I can only tell you about rotations that I have done.
If there is something specific you like to know email me.

I have not heard of any DOs or MDs going outside of the match. Maybe this was possible few years back (I am not sure) but I have not heard about this.

If you like to know the exact number of DOs matching at an ACGME program get the booklet published by ACMGE after the match is over (Mid march) that will give you the exact number per specialty. If you dont want to buy it, just ask a MS-IV as I think we get this info for free on the internet when we sign up/pay for the match. The web page to obtain this booklet is: http://nrmp.aamc.org/nrmp/


good luck to you...
 
lots of people go outside the match. This is more typical in your less competitive specialties (ie psychiatry and the like) and is more common at your less competitive programs. But it also happens at the "hard to get" places too.

It happens all the time trust me. I even know a guy who, as a fourth year med student, signed on with a program to do a three year IM res with a written comittment for a slot in their cardiology fellowship upon completion of the IM residency (a total six year comittment).

This is how it works. If hospital x has 22 PGY-1 slots in IM, they may submit only 18 of those slots to the ACGME (or AOA) match. The other four they will fill "outside" of the match. These slots typically will go to people they just "have to get" or to graduates of their affiliate med school that they really like (if there is one).

Johan Aasbo
MSII CCOM
 
FYI: It is against ACGME guideline for any program to have "more spots" than listed. They only get certified for certain number of slots by ACGME and then the program decided how many of the slots will be funded. Also, programs participating in the match sign a contract that they will not accept applicants outside of the match.
 
RB- I would be very interested to know how the selection of rotations takes place at UHS. Is it a lottery system, or do most people get their 1st choice? How likely would it be for someone to get a rotation in Florida? Thanks in advance...

------------------
Sara
Class of 2004 at XXXXX
 
Independent applicants can be accepted outside of the ACGME match. LCME students are not supposed to be accepted outside of the match.
 
I'll be more than happy to answer any specific questions you might have about UHS-COM rotations and the way they are set up. Just email me, as I dont think this topic is of much interest to other people.
Thanks
RB
 
Is there a web site with a listing of all the Osteopathic Residencies? I have been unsuccessful in finding one? Also, I have been looking on the AMA site at the ratio of applicants per residency position. Some of them are 80:1, and it seems that all of them are unusually high. Are those numbers representative of the competition, or are many graduates just applying to lots of different programs?
 
The ratios are high due to thousands of IMGs applying to hundreds of programs (each), in hopes of landing a slot somewhere. Since the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, every IMG with an ECFMG certificate wants a residency in the US. For the most part, they get what is left over after the US MD/DO applicants pick their slots.
 
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RBorhani, thanks for your reply with that website! Some of the ones that I pulled up had positions still unfilled. Do you know if that is very common and why they are unfilled? Does this mean that particular spot would not be very competitive?
 
KC,MO:

Here's a reply I wrote a few weeks ago about regarding DOs and the Match. First, I'll address a few of your questions. Generally it is a good idea to do a rotation with the program you're most interested in (i.e.: if you do a good job). Also if you're interted in subspecializing, at least currently, there tends to be several fellowship positions available after residency, probably due to the recent push for primary care.

This is a reply regarding questions about DOs and residency matching:

Actually DO's are considered independent applicants. Independent applicants include DO's, IMG's and Canadian's. The stats on match rates are all figured individually for these independent applicants by the ACGME.

The figures on success in the AMA match for independent applicants is misleading however, particularly for DO's. See, US born MD's are required to go through the match, but, independents can sign contracts with programs prior to the match. This is actually fairly common, particularly in primary care specialties and with DO's. Program Directors have an incentive to fill their programs
with US grad's as renumeration from Medicare for these residents is higher than for IMG's. DO's are considered US grad's, plus they can sign up prior to the match, thus securing good resident selection and not leaving things entirely to chance in the Match. In my medical school class, ~25% of the grads doing ACGME residency signed contracts before the match. Those spots taken by those who signed contracts before the match were disclosed as not matching when the stats were run by the ACGME. So, these figures can be misleading.

As far as doing an AOA intership, be careful if you plan to do an MD residency. This was discussed earlier. The AOA year may not be accepted by the MD program and you may not be eligible for funding for the last year of the MD resicency. Funding for residency spots is a big deal to Residency Directors and lack of funding for one year could make the difference between being accepted/rejected to a program. If you are interested in doing a residency that requires a preliminary year (i.e.: anesthesia, some ER programs) then doing an AOA internship prob'ly wouldn't be a problem, but, double check with the residency program first.

Right now I'm going through the process of trying to obtain approval for my first year of AMA residency towards the AOA internship requirement. It has been a difficult process. Suggestion: if you are at all interested in practicing in one of the 5 states requiring an AOA internship, do one. If not, go to the best residency you can find.
 
OK, lets say as a DO, I want to do residency in cardiothorastic surgery or neorosurgery. What can I do to maximize my chances of being matched up? Does AOA have good residencies for those fields? Does it matter which DO school I go to if I want to get matched to those? Is MD the only viable solution? If the DO school does matter, which ones do you recommend? Thanks.
 
RTK,
Which are the five states that require AOA internships? I'm off to Western U. next fall and plan to stay in CA.
 
5 States are: PA, OK, FL, MI, AND WV.

If you want to do CV surg or Neur Surg. It is exteremely difficult to get an ACGME spot even for MD students. The MD student that I was with (in the same rotation)last year and got a Neuro spot was in the top of his class and member of AOA (MD Honor Society). There are CV and Neuro fellowships in the DO world..I do not know how good or bad they are. When I was at Henry Ford one (out of two)of their trauma fellows was a DO (which is a very hard fellowship to get).

Also none of the four-year ACGME ER programs that I have spoken to count your osteopathic rotating internship as a vaild internship for their program(PGYI). Anesthesiology does (almost all of them).



[This message has been edited by RBorhani (edited October 07, 1999).]
 
What about IM Cardiology? I wasn't able to glean form the AOA site whether this would be a competitive residency slot for D.O. programs.
 
How difficult is it for a DO to obtain an endocrinology fellowship? Thanks.
 
Kc, Mo,
I can only tell you about rotations in Michigan. If you want good training, you have several options. I did most of my training at Bi county hospital which is owned by Henry Ford. This is a decent place with morning report, noon lecture, tumor board, harrisons review etc.. Also you can rotate at Henry Ford. This is a >900 bed hospital with very good teaching. It is a major research center and are 6th in the amount of research dollars received in the US.
Mt. Clemens is a good hospital also but I have never rotated there. Bostford is a has a very good rep., never rotated there.
There is a new Hospital in Grand Blanc, Mi called Genesys. This is a great place, very modern, matter of fact it looks like a hotel. I was impressed and the programs seem strong. They are interested in applicants that are interested in research. It is an conglomeration of four hospitals that closed. They are a mixed DO/MD program.
You should rotate at as many hospitals as possible. Do one to two rotations at each one that you are interested in. When you rotate there meet the DME, talk to the program directors in the field that you are interested in. Most of all work hard, study, and be enthusiastic. This will set you apart and they will remember who you are.
I made the mistake of only rotating at one hospital as a student. Don't do this! They want to know who they are dealing with before they pick you for a resident.
If you have any questions "[email protected]"
 
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