Rush's New Flipped Classroom Curriculum

[darkpauladin]

What I understand the curriculum to be:
Flipped Classroom in small group sessions led by faculty for a mandatory 15 hrs/week (missing more than 1 session results in disciplinary actions); 2 cases/week with Wednesday off, ~50-90 pages of reading per case
No traditional lectures (learn on your own at home/own time through online materials

My question:
Can any M1s at Rush offer insight into their new flipped classroom curriculum? I know that they have piloted it this year and saw the thread by gribear about being unhappy with it. Rush had a great vibe for me, but the new curriculum gives me pause for matriculating.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Nucleophile1]

15 hours of mandatory small group per week sounds absolutely awful. At my school, we have about 4 hours per week of mandatory small groups activities and that is more than enough for me. If you have multiple acceptances, I would recommend choosing a different school.

 

[Cath Up]

Is this them committing to a Problem Based Learning Curriculum? That might be the intent. PBL can work, but you have to be comfortable with a lot of reading a self-discipline. There might be some difference between flipped classroom as described above and a PBL curriculum though. But it seems like learning from clinical cases is a similarity between the two.

DO student here.

Two things: The public doesn't know **** about his degree, every headline reads "Olympic Sports doctor." Second, the dude did all this without explaining to them what he was doing?? What doctor does that?

We've never been taught anything that has been described in the article, but we're taught from day 1 if we do not have explicit consent to perform a OMM technique you simply don't do it. A HUGE part of that informed consent is the patient fully understanding the procedure, which clearly wasn't the case here.

It's a shame too, because sports med is probably one of (if not the only) discipline where OMM can be super useful.

Wrong thread, friend. But don't worry, I have the thread you meant to post in open so I am following right along

 

[Goro]

What I understand the curriculum to be:
Flipped Classroom in small group sessions led by faculty for a mandatory 15 hrs/week (missing more than 1 session results in disciplinary actions); 2 cases/week with Wednesday off, ~50-90 pages of reading per case
No traditional lectures (learn on your own at home/own time through online materials

My question:
Can any M1s at Rush offer insight into their new flipped classroom curriculum? I know that they have piloted it this year and saw the thread by gribear about being unhappy with it. Rush had a great vibe for me, but the new curriculum gives me pause for matriculating.

Gawd, I hate the flipped curriculum.

 

[Cath Up]

Gawd, I hate the flipped curriculum.

In terms of effectiveness, or personal preference?

 

[Goro]

In terms of effectiveness, or personal preference?

Personal preference. It turns faculty into daycare providers.

 

[Osteoth]

Alot of places do it but 15 hours is alot. We had ~4 a week and that was more than enough for me.

 

[IslandStyle808]

We had this but it depends on the professor (anywhere between 4-10 hours) and we didn't have days off (and most days were 8-5 with a few half days). An extreme waste of which I am glad to say I don't have much of in second year.

 

[CJS426]

Hey, current Rush M1 here. I personally have loved the new curriculum. It had a few growing pains, but in general our class is happy with it now. The group sessions are so helpful to really hammer in those key concepts and to gauge how well you know the material. Even though we don't have lecture, the faculty for each subject area are available during every session to come around to the classrooms and explain things to our small groups. Classmates often have really good insights, so we learn from each other too. In traditional curriculum, you don't have as much direct communication with classmates and faculty about material unless you seek it out yourself.

I feel like we have a good amount of free time even with required class. When you say 15 hours, it sounds like a lot, but we so far we have gotten out early from most sessions, so it does not feel like a lot.

Our class is so supportive, which is one of the best things about Rush. I think that is why the curriculum works so well - because we are all friendly, social people. People are not competitive. Everyone is really here to learn and to help each other out. We all want everyone to be successful.

Feel free to message me with other questions. I honestly could not recommend Rush enough. I am so happy with my decision!

 

[theonlytycrane]

Avoid this type of curriculum at all costs.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[3toedsloth]

small group sessions ... for a mandatory 15 hrs/week

That sounds HORRIBLE. I thought it couldn't get worse, but then I read: missing >1 ---> disciplinary action

RUN!!!!!!!
Go anywhere else if you can.

 

[theonlytycrane]

reapply or go DO (but seriously avoid this)

 

[darkpauladin]

reapply or go DO (but seriously avoid this)

lol don't you get blacklisted if you were accepted, declined, then reapplied to other medical schools?

In any case, I do have a couple other acceptances so it isnt my only choice.

 

[FutureOncologist]

TBL with no mandatory lectures, save Gross Anatomy, intro to patient care, and a few lectures that, IMHO, everyone needed to attend, in-person. Small groups were 5 hours/week that had an assignment due on Friday at 11:59 pm. Faculty were always available and would accommodate if needed. But other than that, nothing much.

 

[darkpauladin]

TBL with no mandatory lectures, save Gross Anatomy, intro to patient care, and a few lectures that, IMHO, everyone needed to attend, in-person. Small groups were 5 hours/week that had an assignment due on Friday at 11:59 pm. Faculty were always available and would accommodate if needed. But other than that, nothing much.

Is the mandatory TBL really not 15 hr/week? I heard that at my interview, but I must be wrong then.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Is the mandatory TBL really not 15 hr/week? I heard that at my interview, but I must be wrong then.

I forgot to put that this was at MY medical school, not Rush. Sorry for confusion. 15 hours a week sounds horrible and, if you're lucky enough to have 2+ acceptances, I'd go to another school that doesn't strain you/attempt to cause burnout before intern year.

 

[Spectar]

Gawd, I hate the flipped curriculum.

How do you feel about hofstra/northwell....... 100% flipped, everything is mandatory. 1 lecture per week (only because it was absolutely necessary), only prosection. but still a high average step 1 score (237 I think)

 

[Goro]

How do you feel about hofstra/northwell....... 100% flipped, everything is mandatory. 1 lecture per week (only because it was absolutely necessary), only prosection. but still a high average step 1 score (237 I think)

U VM also has 100% flipped. I suppose I can't argue with success, but I still dislike the format..
The real question is how how do the students like it?

 

[ciestar]

Drexel took this on this year as well.

 

[getdown]

I just looked up flip curriculum and this sounds like the worst thing ever. At this rate you might as well pre-study before med school since that's all you'll be doing. Minimal to no direction of content. What the hell is the point of even paying for medical education if you're just going to end up teaching yourself or learning from other students (possibly the wrong stuff even).

I swear medical education is going down the toilet. First, M3 and 4s get less and less hands-on training due to "legal liability". I swear half of the new interns have no clue how to take out a central line let alone place one. And now we have this flipped curriculum nonsense where faculty don't even teach? More and more this is becoming a glorified shadowing experience over 4 years rather than any legitimate "training".

 

[Lawpy]

I just looked up flip curriculum and this sounds like the worst thing ever. At this rate you might as well pre-study before med school since that's all you'll be doing. Minimal to no direction of content. What the hell is the point of even paying for medical education if you're just going to end up teaching yourself or learning from other students (possibly the wrong stuff even).

I swear medical education is going down the toilet. First, M3 and 4s get less and less hands-on training due to "legal liability". I swear half of the new interns have no clue how to take out a central line let alone place one. And now we have this flipped curriculum nonsense where faculty don't even teach? More and more this is becoming a glorified shadowing experience over 4 years rather than any legitimate "training".

I agree, but the question then becomes: what's the point of medical school? If med schools don't teach and prepare students enough to function as skilled interns, are they really worth the investment? Or are they actually expensive scams? It is simply pointless to take on so much debt for four years only to end up self-teaching everything and still developing poor clinical skills due to legal liability.

 

[ciestar]

It’d be great if LCME wasn’t the source pushing schools to do this in the first place, yet, they are.

 

[calivianya]

I just looked up flip curriculum and this sounds like the worst thing ever. At this rate you might as well pre-study before med school since that's all you'll be doing. Minimal to no direction of content. What the hell is the point of even paying for medical education if you're just going to end up teaching yourself or learning from other students (possibly the wrong stuff even).

I don't know about Rush, but at Nova MD's interview, they stated this is exactly what the faculty facilitators are for - to make sure the discussions go in the right direction and people learn the right stuff.

The problem with that is how are they supposed to police learning after the fact? I'm assuming to even know what the hell is going on and speak intelligently about a topic during a PBL session, you'd have to know something about the topic first. Which means you'd have to pre-study/research something on your own before going to a PBL session, and who's to say you look up the right stuff in the first place? Awfully hard to un-learn stuff if you spent several hours researching it to be prepared for PBL.

Do PBL/flipped classroom schools usually have defined material to cover before a PBL session like designated chapters out of a certain book, designated articles, etc. or is it all on the student to find the necessary resources?

 

[ciestar]

I don't know about Rush, but at Nova MD's interview, they stated this is exactly what the faculty facilitators are for - to make sure the discussions go in the right direction and people learn the right stuff.

The problem with that is how are they supposed to police learning after the fact? I'm assuming to even know what the hell is going on and speak intelligently about a topic during a PBL session, you'd have to know something about the topic first. Which means you'd have to pre-study/research something on your own before going to a PBL session, and who's to say you look up the right stuff in the first place?

Do PBL/flipped classroom schools usually have defined material to cover before a PBL session like designated chapters out of a certain book, designated articles, etc. or is it all on the student to find the necessary resources?

I dont know about other schools, but Drexel uses online materials that are posted weekly to study from. They’re essentially lecture notes from the old curriculum, only shortened, along with online lectures to supplement the readings. THEN, they meet for the PBL to go over it.

 

[Siromas]

Do PBL/flipped classroom schools usually have defined material to cover before a PBL session like designated chapters out of a certain book, designated articles, etc. or is it all on the student to find the necessary resources?

Hi there, Rush interviewee here.

They explained in the curriculum overview that students are provided all the recorded lectures, videos, articles, and texts to be prepared for the PBL session. So many resources are provided that administration has received push-back from the students that they're providing too much material.

 

[ciestar]

I’ll just add a bit more for clarity sake...

Anyway, how Drexel does it goes as so:
Monday - online lecture day
Tuesday - Mornings are dedicated to CBLs (PBL with a case study), Afternoons are clinical site visits (which are not every week) or group discussion regarding topics you will face as a physician (substance abuse, death/dying, etc, this is a similar to a course in the old curriculum), clinical skills stuff, TBLs
Wednesday - Labs and possibly more lectures in afternoon
Thursday - Labs, TBLs in morning, afternoon is what you didn’t do on Tuesday afternoon
Friday - more Labs

It obviously changes week to week.

 

[Levrone]

For my first two classes I had like 2 hrs of pbl per week and hated it. Couldn't imagine 15 a week.

 

[getdown]

I agree, but the question then becomes: what's the point of medical school? If med schools don't teach and prepare students enough to function as skilled interns, are they really worth the investment? Or are they actually expensive scams? It is simply pointless to take on so much debt for four years only to end up self-teaching everything and still developing poor clinical skills due to legal liability.

Totally, there should be some level of self teaching involved and in my opinion if you're smart enough to get into medical school you have at least the motivation to self learn. Ultimately, you won't and can't teach everything in the classroom but there should be some level of MINIMAL teaching and instruction on the very basic/fundamental/foundational aspects of medicine like physiology, anatomy and pharmacology for example. Those all are so fundamental to you being a physician that having a strong knowledge of it is necessary. A lot of the self teaching actually comes during the clinical years. You get some weird pathology and you look it up and then you continue that during residency. I've just been less and less impressed by the quality of the medical students I encounter. I'm sure they're smart and are very good test takers but very few show the necessary willingness to work hard, stay late, etc. Everyone wants to be pampered and not criticized, everything they do is amazing (snowflake mentality), they want to work as little as possible, not respectful, everyone wants to do derm cause it's a nice lifestyle and you make lots of money.