Saba and Residencies

[mssopranogirl]

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I've seen quite a few threads discussing residency placements for the top 4 caribbean schools for competitive specialties, with the general notion that it's difficult to obtain competitive/specialty residencies if one attends a caribbean med school. What I'm wondering is...is it pretty certain that you can obtain a FM, IM, or Peds residency if you attend one of the top 4 carib schools (I'm thinking specifically of Saba)? My desire is to become a general practitioner...either pediatrics or family medicine. Any input would be highly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[RussianJoo]

the only thing that's certain are death and taxes.

plenty of people from SABA and other carib schools don't get a residency every year. Don't know about SABA but for SGU, probably the best known carib schools about 26% of those that go through the match have scramble and most of them don't get into a full residency program. I would bet that for SABA that precentage would be bigger, but not by much.

it also depends on if you're a US citizen or not. over all about 47% of US citizens that applied for the match matched into a residency, the other 53% had to scramble and most probably ended up with nothing. and something like 44 or 41% (can't remember which) of non-US citizen IMGs matched. So your chances are about 50/50 or even slightly less that you'll end up in any residency at all.

carib schools are a huge risk, that's why people on these boards tell everyone to make sure this is honestly their last resort.

 

[whattodonow2010]

Does anyone know what percent of irish grads match in the states or the percent that need to enter the scramble?

Thanks

 

[mssopranogirl]

the only thing that's certain are death and taxes.

plenty of people from SABA and other carib schools don't get a residency every year. Don't know about SABA but for SGU, probably the best known carib schools about 26% of those that go through the match have scramble and most of them don't get into a full residency program. I would bet that for SABA that precentage would be bigger, but not by much.

it also depends on if you're a US citizen or not. over all about 47% of US citizens that applied for the match matched into a residency, the other 53% had to scramble and most probably ended up with nothing. and something like 44 or 41% (can't remember which) of non-US citizen IMGs matched. So your chances are about 50/50 or even slightly less that you'll end up in any residency at all.

carib schools are a huge risk, that's why people on these boards tell everyone to make sure this is honestly their last resort.

thanks for the info. do you happen to know the source for these stats? thanks!!

 

[RussianJoo]

the stat about SGU was sent to us (SGU students) via email from our dean. the rest can be found here http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2010.pdf

stats from last years match can be found here http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html

a more detailed report of this years match will be available sometime later this year.

 

[RussianJoo]

thanks for the info. do you happen to know the source for these stats? thanks!!

valuemd.com is a great forum for carib students and info on carib schools. each school has it's own forum on that website so you can ask student from each school questions.

 

[demayette]

the only thing that's certain are death and taxes.

plenty of people from SABA and other carib schools don't get a residency every year. Don't know about SABA but for SGU, probably the best known carib schools about 26% of those that go through the match have scramble and most of them don't get into a full residency program. I would bet that for SABA that precentage would be bigger, but not by much.

it also depends on if you're a US citizen or not. over all about 47% of US citizens that applied for the match matched into a residency, the other 53% had to scramble and most probably ended up with nothing. and something like 44 or 41% (can't remember which) of non-US citizen IMGs matched. So your chances are about 50/50 or even slightly less that you'll end up in any residency at all.

carib schools are a huge risk, that's why people on these boards tell everyone to make sure this is honestly their last resort.

Your representation is very scary RussianJoo. I was told that if you go to the BIG 4 and you pass all your classes, the USMLE on you first attempt with at least 80th percentile; you are are not deviant and you are a US citizen then you have a 95%+ to find residency in primary care. I guess that a lot people go to the carib and think they can become ortho docs, neuro surgeon docs, or radiologist... I think these people are setting up themselves for failure. I believe if you go to the BIG 4 and you do everything right, primary care is attainable. Correct me if I am wrong..

 

[RussianJoo]

as i told you in your private message. you were told incorrectly.

 

[LEVAMISOLE]

Your representation is very scary RussianJoo. I was told that if you go to the BIG 4 and you pass all your classes, the USMLE on you first attempt with at least 80th percentile; you are are not deviant and you are a US citizen then you have a 95%+ to find residency in primary care. I guess that a lot people go to the carib and think they can become ortho docs, neuro surgeon docs, or radiologist... I think these people are setting up themselves for failure. I believe if you go to the BIG 4 and you do everything right, primary care is attainable. Correct me if I am wrong..

I'm a graduate of a "Big 4 school" and I can tell you that I know of a lot of my classmates with stellar stats did not match this year. I was very lucky to have got a spot but I can tell you that its only going to get more difficult and I'd expect next year to be even more brutal. Until they open up more residency spots Id say the future of all Caribbean schools is uncertain even SGU because why would you go off shore when you have a 5% chance of getting a PGY-1 spot? So we shall see what happens over the next 3 years which I consider to be crucial due to the fact of AMG's that are coming out of med schools=PGY-1 spots. Whats left for FMG's?

 

[Aphtalyfe]

Your representation is very scary RussianJoo. I was told that if you go to the BIG 4 and you pass all your classes, the USMLE on you first attempt with at least 80th percentile; you are are not deviant and you are a US citizen then you have a 95%+ to find residency in primary care. I guess that a lot people go to the carib and think they can become ortho docs, neuro surgeon docs, or radiologist... I think these people are setting up themselves for failure. I believe if you go to the BIG 4 and you do everything right, primary care is attainable. Correct me if I am wrong..

I think you're correct.

I've yet to hear about someone who passed all their classes, did well on Step 1, is a US citizen and was unable to match into any primary care residency.

The people that don't match are usually going for more competitive residencies or have very low Step 1 or Step 1 failures.

 

[dragonfly99]

I don't know demayette, but I can tell you that getting "80th %ile" on the USMLE is not very easy to do. Remember, the people taking it are the top of the bell curve from college, and the people who didn't wash out during year 1/2 of med school on top of that. They're not dumb, and it ain't that easy to outscore 80% of them. Show me someone who got 90th %ile and I'll show you another person with identical high undergrad grades and GPA, and decent med school grades who got a 40th %ile. And you don't know which of those people you are going to be, no matter how much you bust your a-- in med school, whether it's a Caribbean one or one in the US. I would be scared to go to a Caribbean school right now - I'm not saying not to go, but I'm saying don't make a lot of assumptions unless you're sure they are correct. For sure getting a primary care residency was, and is, easier than other specialties, but I don't think it's a lock if you are from the Caribbean.

 

[demayette]

I think you're correct.

I've yet to hear about someone who passed all their classes, did well on Step 1, is a US citizen and was unable to match into any primary care residency.

The people that don't match are usually going for more competitive residencies or have very low Step 1 or Step 1 failures.

That is what I have been told. I have talked to a lot caribbean alumni (Big 4) and they have told me primary care residency is not very hard to get like many people in the carib forum make it seem like. The majority of these alumni told me if you pass the board on your first attempt and you are not picky about which city or town you wanna do your residency, you will find one. In fact, many have told me that they did not get a spectacular score on the board. My problem is that I am getting mixed messages about finding a primary care residency coming from one of the big 4. I just wanna become a family physician, I am not a bad student ( 3.1 cGPA, 3.4+ sGPA, 27P mcat) and I am getting old 30+, I dont wanna spend more time trying to get into US school, I just wanna go to AUC and I am applying for may 2011. What do you think?... Advice please.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you go to AUC and if you do reasonably well on the USMLE and remain committed to FM and are really willing to go "anywhere", then yes overall your chances of getting a spot are good. As has been mentioned on this forum, US schools (MD and DO) are increasing class size and that MIGHT squeeze IMG's out of the match IF residency slots are not increased. However, these increases in MD slots especially are going to be delayed for a few years -- multiple medical schools are just getting started and will enroll their first classes next year, and those first classes are expected to be smaller than their ultimate planned class size. The IMG squeeze will likely be felt in the more competitive fields first -- ED, anesthesia, GS, IM, etc. FP will be the last affected (if this happens at all, lots of unknowns and "what ifs").

But, there is no guarantee. If you have a problem -- fail a step, fail a course, not interview well, change your plans as to field of interest, be unwilling to work "anywhere", etc -- you might find yourself unable to find a spot. That is the risk you take, but IMHO the risk is (relatively) low now.

But, this is all guesswork.

 

[demayette]

If you go to AUC and if you do reasonably well on the USMLE and remain committed to FM and are really willing to go "anywhere", then yes overall your chances of getting a spot are good. As has been mentioned on this forum, US schools (MD and DO) are increasing class size and that MIGHT squeeze IMG's out of the match IF residency slots are not increased. However, these increases in MD slots especially are going to be delayed for a few years -- multiple medical schools are just getting started and will enroll their first classes next year, and those first classes are expected to be smaller than their ultimate planned class size. The IMG squeeze will likely be felt in the more competitive fields first -- ED, anesthesia, GS, IM, etc. FP will be the last affected (if this happens at all, lots of unknowns and "what ifs").

But, there is no guarantee. If you have a problem -- fail a step, fail a course, not interview well, change your plans as to field of interest, be unwilling to work "anywhere", etc -- you might find yourself unable to find a spot. That is the risk you take, but IMHO the risk is (relatively) low now.

But, this is all guesswork.

Your representatin is more in line with the carib alumni that I talked to. Thanks for your honest response...I am gonna go ahead and apply to AUC. I will work hard to get what I want and I will let GOD take care of the rest.

 

[dragonfly99]

Are US MD or DO schools totally not an option for you? Why?

 

[mssopranogirl]

Are US MD or DO schools totally not an option for you? Why?

It's definitely an option, and I would choose a US school over a carib school for many reasons. But as a post-bac, I have all of my science pre-reqs from a community college and am afraid that will negatively affect my chances of getting in. Because of this, I'm also exploring other viable options.

 

[doctorASL]

I think it is known across the board, if you can get into a US school: GO!
However if you are out of options = Carribean schools- yes you have to do well in gpa, step 1 AND 2
From here you will have to be willing to travel : example Chicago-> Louisiana->North Carolina-> Whyoming-> end at Georgia. That is a typical route for a Family physician that is a US citizen.
The Big 4 Schools are excellent: teaching is up to par for sure. However, I as I mentioned above, the travel, truley dedicating yourself to perfection just so that you can STILL worry about whether it's good enough AND whether there will be a residency spot 4 yrs from now.
Consider all of this, then make your decision.