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Sabbath-observant Residencies

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by LisaY, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. LisaY

    LisaY Junior Member
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    Hi, does anyone know where I can find out about Sabbath (Shabbat) -observant residencies?
    Thanks,
    Lisa
     
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  3. BassDominator

    BassDominator Senior Member
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    What field did you have in mind?

    I know there are some internal medicine ones at Albert Einstein.
     
  4. sean wilson

    sean wilson Membership Revoked
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    Lisa,

    Maimonides has provisions in place for this.
     
  5. doc05

    doc05 2K Member
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    try google-ing appropriate search terms. I'm sure there's a list somewhere.
     
  6. Seaglass

    Seaglass Quantum Member
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    Not to say that I know anything about Judaism, because I don't really, but have you asked your rabbi about this? It was my understanding that the possibility of saving a life absolved you of observance of all but 4 of the laws/rules, and therefore you can work Saturday since there is the potential that you could save a life.

    C
     
  7. chicamedica

    chicamedica 1K Member
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    that's basically how I rationalize being on call and working on Fri nights/Saturdays.

    Not sure if I'm right about this either. I'm not exactly the most learned Torah scholar.
     
  8. DR

    DR Xtra Large Member
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    I know that, in NY for medicine, Beth Israel, Einstein, Long Island Jewish, to name a few.
     
  9. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    I was actually thinking about this the other day. Doctors in Isreal work on the Sabbath because medicine doesn't take a break for holidays, so why shouldn't jews in the US?
     
  10. BassDominator

    BassDominator Senior Member
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    Jewish doctors are permitted to work on the Sabbath, but if they can avoid it, they should.... that's what my Rabbi has always told me.
     
  11. DrDre'

    DrDre' Senior Member
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    Do Jewish patients take Sabbath off? No frequent flyers in the ED in the big Israeli cities? CHFers wait to go fulminant until the next day? If so, I will definitely convert. :)
     
  12. flighterdoc

    flighterdoc Rocket Scientist
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    It's permissible to work to save a life on Shabbos, but (if you want to be particularly observant) once the immediate risk to life is mediated, you're not supposed to do any "work" - ie, an ambulance crew isn't supposed to restock, firefighters don't pick up hose, etc.
     
  13. Fermi

    Fermi Senior Member
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    I'd interpret that to mean you can take call on the sabbath, and maybe do morning rounds, but you shouldn't make it a regular workday every week.
     
  14. flighterdoc

    flighterdoc Rocket Scientist
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    No, but residency isn't like regular work. I'm not especially observant, so it doesn't affect me, but I think if I wasn't Jewish, and someone consistently got weekends off (and I didn't) I'd be resentful - especially when there is no clear prohibition against it (no work, vs. saving a life). Doctors working weekends are there to save peoples lives - they may not "have" to, but if they weren't necessary the hospitals wouldn't pay them to be there.
     
  15. Fermi

    Fermi Senior Member
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    I agree, that's what I was trying to get at. I was talking about someone out in private practice who has a say in their schedule. Obviously residency doesn't give you options like that, which is why all of us (of any faith) just have to bite the bullet and work on our sabbath, or holidays, or whatever, when we normally would not do so.
     
  16. Su4n2

    Su4n2 Senior Member
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    relax, kids
    of the people that i know thart were in a residency that gave you sabbath off, they just had to take more call during the week and ALWAYS worked sundays. in the end, the hours are the same.
    oh, and by the way, the majority of israelis are not observent, so they really don't care if they work on sat.
     
  17. LisaY

    LisaY Junior Member
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    Hi everyone, thanks for all your responses. I will try to reply in 1 go:
    * Specialties - I am not sure yet! I am a 6th (final) year student, but in Australia, you work for a few years before specialising, so I need to decide fast for US purposes. Maybe internal med or neurology. Know of any in those fields? And who do I contact within the hospitals to find out more? (# etc)
    * Google - tried that, and came up with next to nothing. Any other suggestions? The info is quite elusive.
    * Working on Shabbat - the situation as far as I see it is this. Obviously, to save lives is paramount and overrides the laws of Shabbat, but that is in an emergency situation where lives/limbs will be saved. Most of the time on the wards in the hospital, doctors are not saving lives, a lot is doing rounds, paperwork, ordering tests etc. AND most doctors are not indispensable. If they were, they could never justifiably take a holiday. So if you can get someone to cover for you and you just work their shift instead, then as far as I can see there is no good reason to break Shabbat. I know here some people swap say Saturdays for Sundays with non-Jewish colleagues, and work on Easter etc so things work out well for both sides. The situation in Israel is different as most drs are Jewish, so they could not conceivably get someone to cover for them and keep the hospitals up and running. In the US and Aust, that is not the case, so if you can possibly get a Sabbath observant residency, you really should avoid working on Shabbat and it will in no way comprimise either patient wellbeing or your colleagues' working hours.
    * Any more info will be very much appreciated! Thanks...
     
  18. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST
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    My (liberal) Jewish friend described it like this to me:

    The law says EVERYONE gets the Shabbat off - you, your family, your slave, your donkey, everyone - Jewish or not. Since giving you off means someone else having to work on the Shabbat (even if Gentile), it still doesn't fly.

    But, as someone said above, if you DO get the Shabbat, you will make up the time. I know a guy who is Orthodox, and did Peds at Maimo, and he wasn't on the Shabbat program (although there was a woman that was), and he took his call like everyone else.
     
  19. ocean11

    ocean11 Senior Member
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    As a liberal Jew myself, who comes from Israel.... I agree.... you shouldn't take the sabbath off during residency. you might really be needed, especially if there is a shortage of residents/physicians in the hospital. if you take the day off, someone else will have to make it up and you can never tell when there will be an emergency.

    even if you take the day off, if there are several emergencies you will be on call and that is a very likely possibility.

    I say don't look for 'sabbath programs' work on the saturday like everyone else

    fyi: Israeli residents in Israeli hospitals are on call 24/7... no exeptions made...
     
  20. ocean11

    ocean11 Senior Member
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    One more note... most jews in israel DO NOT strickly observe the Sabbath, the one's that do are religious or orthodox. Most israelis drive on Saturdays and use electricity.
     
  21. apma77

    apma77 Senior Member
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    do you think their would be muslim or hindu friendly residencies out there?
    i dont think so!
    just be glad that jews dominate the medical field in this country and you do have a small numbers of sabbath or whatever holiday programs out there.
     
  22. flighterdoc

    flighterdoc Rocket Scientist
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    I think that anyone with a religious reason for not working a particular day or days would be accomodated.

    I used to work with a Sikh. He got two weeks (winter/summer solstices?) off for religious observances. He made it up the rest of the year.
     
  23. ocean11

    ocean11 Senior Member
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    I completely DISAGREE.... how can you say such a racist comment 'Jews dominate the medical field in this country' FIRST OF all Jews are a minority and sure there are many in medicine, BUT MOST doctors in the US are NOT Jewish.

    What you're saying is very analogous to people who say that jews dominate most buisness fields and the world in general... and that leads to antisemitism!!
     
  24. thegasman

    thegasman ASA Member
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    Maybe what he meant to say is that there is a disproportionately higher number of jewish physicians compared to their percentage of population. Is this domination? No.
     
  25. gaslady

    gaslady Senior Member
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    There were a couple of residents at my medical school who had worked it out to get Saturdays off. Although supposedly they worked it out to make up the hours, it still inconvienced their colleagues and led to resentment. There were situations when nonjewish colleagues worked on days that were religious holidays for them and the same consideration wasn't shown to them. Also, sometimes things come up in residency and you may be asked to cover for colleagues who have personal emergencies, such as illness, pregnancy, death in the family, etc. You can try to make arrangements but it is unrealistic to think that you may never have to work on Saturday.
     
  26. sean wilson

    sean wilson Membership Revoked
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    "Dominating" does not imply anti-semitism, Mr. Overreactor.

    Kind of an inflammatory approach taken by the usually-obnoxious ampa, but when a small group has such a huge amount of control over a field, you are free to make observations about it.
     
  27. flighterdoc

    flighterdoc Rocket Scientist
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    I had a somewhat similar situation when I was on active duty in the Air Force. While I didn't always get (take) the Sabbath off, I always made a point of getting the important holidays (Rosh HaShona, Yom Kippur, Passover, etc) off - and I made SURE that I got the duty on Easter, Christmas, etc. It seemed to me that if you want to ask for some consideration, you should make certain that you reciprocate in kind. And, I never had any grief from anyone over it.
     
  28. ewing

    ewing Senior Member
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    I found this by googling. Also, some programs in NYC were mentioned, but I think Temple (in Philly) and UMDNJ (not sure which campus) have similar programs for internal medicine.

    -----------
    AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION MEDICAL STUDENT SECTION
    Resolution: 18
    (I-03)
    Introduced by:
    Tovah Rosen, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
    Subject:
    Eliminating Religious Discrimination from Residency Programs
    Referred to:
    Reference Committee A
    Colby Previte, Chair

    Whereas, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits not only intentional employment discrimination, but also practices that have the effect of discriminating against individuals because of their religion; and

    Whereas, Under Title VII ?an employer is required to reasonably accommodate the religious belief of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would impose an undue hardship?; and

    Whereas, ?Title VII and the ADA cover all private employers, state and local governments, and education institutions that employ 15 or more individuals. These laws also cover private and public employment agencies, labor organizations, and joint labor management committees controlling apprenticeship and training?; and

    Whereas, Observant Jews are forbidden from performing ?work? (defined to varying degrees by different groups) during the Jewish Sabbath, which runs from sundown on Friday until the stars come out on Saturday; and

    Whereas, Seventh Day Adventists and other religious groups have similar restrictions on their Sabbath; and

    Whereas, Many students are currently forced to pass up their first choice of residency programs and compete for a small number of positions in more accommodating programs; and

    Whereas, Requirements that residents work on the Sabbath in conflict with their religious convictions seems to be an example of a ?practice that has the effect of discriminating against an individual? on the basis of his religion; and

    Whereas, The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) already has requirements that prohibit a resident being forced to perform some procedures which conflict with a resident?s religious views; and

    Whereas, Congress and 49 states have passed laws called "conscience clauses," which are?generally drafted to protect the right of health care professionals to refuse to participate in providing a service or procedure to which they have religious or other moral objections?; and

    Whereas, Programs have been able to arrange schedules to accommodate for other special circumstances, such as maternity and paternity leave; and

    Whereas, Many programs have been able to incorporate a Sabbath observant schedule into their program such as the one at Beth Israel in New York, ?a special program designed to accommodate Sabbath observant Jewish residents. These residents are exempt from hospital duties on the Jewish Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening), as well as, certain Jewish Holidays. However, the total number of hours worked is equivalent among all medicine residents. This schedule allows the observant Jewish resident to acquire premium medical training while not violating the Sabbath?; therefore be it

    RESOLVED, That the AMA formally oppose any residency requirements that directly interfere with an individual's religious beliefs and practices; and be it further

    RESOLVED, That the AMA encourage the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education to extend its current policies regarding religious exceptions to include the observance of the Sabbath; and be it further

    RESOLVED, That the AMA encourage the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education to require that all residency programs become aware of and make an effort to ensure that residents be allowed to practice in a manner that does not interfere with their religious convictions, including observance of the Sabbath in accordance with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    1
    July 2003 Program Requirements for OB-GYN, Section VC5
    http://www.acgme.org/downloads/RRC_progReq/220pr703.pdf
    2
    Committee on Energy and Commerce ? prepared testimony by W.J. "Billy" Tauzin, Chairman Protecting
    the Rights of Conscience of Health Care Providers and a Parent?s Right to Know.
    Subcommittee on Health, July 11, 2002, 3:00 PM, 2123 Rayburn House Office Building
    http://energycommerce.house.gov/107/hearings/07112002Hearing632/Wardle1089print.htm
    3
    http://www.wehealnewyork.org/professionals/residency/bi_medicine.html
     
  29. ewing

    ewing Senior Member
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    I think SUNY Downstate (aka King's County Hospital in Brooklyn) has a sabbath spot in adult neurology. There are probably others.

    There is a long list of internal medicine programs in the NYC metro area that has already been mentioned.

    Basically, you need to contact the program directors by letter and ask whether they can accommodate your religious needs. You'll get a range of answers. Some have a "Sabbath spot," where your contract assures you you'll never work on a Jewish holiday. Some will try to accomodate you in the scheduling and will let you work it out yourself (swap with other residents)when the schedule has you work on a sabbath or holiday. Some will actively discourage you because the swapping can lead to people (voluntarily) working more than 36 hours and thus violating the Bell Commission, which wouldn't happen if everyone stuck to the computer-generated schedule.

    I totally agree with you that doing scut violates the spirit (and probably the laws) of the sabbath.

    Good luck!
     
  30. diamonddoc

    diamonddoc Member
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    Hi. I know Schneider Children's Hospital at LIJ-North Shore has 2 shabbos spots. These spots are very difficult to get and are prob. the best peds SS spots in the country.
     
  31. Jeff05

    Jeff05 Senior Member
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    actually, the reason there are hospitals are named jewish this and jewish that is because jews were historically discriminated against and shunned from waspy hospitals until a very recent past (1940ish). so they started their own medical centers. some of those centers had provisions for the more religious.

    today ALL residencies are muslim/hindu/whatever friendly - because every group is represented.

    so, your "jewish domination" theory as an explanation for the presence of a handful of residencies that accomodate the jewish religion is wrong. it also makes you sound hateful. which is ok, if that's your thing.

    btw, i only got into medical school cause i'm jewish. it is also the reason why i passed the first 2 years, the boards, and why i'll match into the best residency, ever.
     
  32. fourthyearmed

    fourthyearmed Senior Member
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    I'm sure it's different up North but the medical field is definitely not dominated by Jews in the South. I know very few Jewish people in fact. As for being excused from work for Sabbath, I don't really see how that can be done. I've never seen anyone be excused to attend Church on Sunday.
     
  33. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Senior Member
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    Maimonides Medical Center (Israel Zion) in Brooklyn, NY.

    You can also make a deal with the PD, to take Saturdays off, and work Sundays instead.
     
  34. NYC Girl

    NYC Girl Member
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    With residency looming in the coming year, I had been thinking about how I would be able to accomodate church and Easter/Christmas holidays in terms of scheduling (I currently attend church qweek :D ). For myself, I had resigned myself that I would have to miss services, and/or attempt to find evening services - and that I may not get every Christmas or Easter off. Even if I were to work extra to make up for it (i.e. take extra Saturdays), I could just imagine the anger and violence that would pour fouth if I were to request every single Sunday off. I know it will be different when I'm practicing as an attending, but during residency I think I will temporarily have to adjust my worship activities.

    This is obviously a different issue from the observance of full day prohibition of labor associated with the Jewish Sabbath - there are several programs (as other people have mentioned) here in NY that have programs or tracks that factor in Sabbath observance.
     
  35. euromd

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    Why the double-standard between Christian and Jewish religions regarding days off?

    And second, can non-Jewish people request Sabbath spots? Cuz I sure would like every Saturday off.

    It just seems quite unrealistic to make all these "special" requests when you knew from before med school application what residency life was like. There was a mention from a previous poster of requesting days off for important holidays - Rosh HaShona, Yom Kippur, Passover - for Jewish people, and the people of other religions getting their important religious holidays off - Christmas and Easter for Christians. I would totally be in favour of that, but one day off a week (I'm assuming in addition to these important religious holidays) is being overly demanding.

    -S
     
  36. pillowhead

    pillowhead Senior Member
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    There are a small number of Christian Family Medicine residency programs out there. These were definitely NOT just Christian in name as many of the hospitals with Jewish in their title. We just had someone from one of the programs in Oklahoma come and talk to us on Friday about it. Does everyone take issue with these as well as with a handful of programs accomondating a Sabbath request? What about Seventh-Day Adventists who request Sabbath off?
     
  37. ny skindoc

    ny skindoc Senior Member
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    I know a seventh day adventist who obtained a "jewish" sabbath observant spot in NYC.Many of the hospitals that offer sabbath observer positions do so because they are often not the most desirable programs.They are in iffy neighborhoods(inner city) or the programs reputation is borderline.Its a way hospitals with many IMGs have of filling their programs with US medical graduates or getting higher quality individuals who have a religious desire not to work on their sabbath.Its a way of filling their housestaff,you wont generally find it in competitive programs.If you have strong qualifications and are willing to go to a lesser quality hospital than you would otherwise you can negotiate things,regardless of your specific faith.The main reason you find it among jewish sabbath observers is that Orhthodox Jews are very strict about avoiding any type of labor on the sabbath,including prohibitions on turning on electric lights,driving and writing.So they will make special efforts to avoid these things if possible.
     
  38. Seaglass

    Seaglass Quantum Member
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    It's not a double standard - the two religions have two different sets of requirements for observers: Christianity does not require observers to not work on Sunday or attend services, however orthodox Judaism does have requirements for a day without labor.
     
  39. euromd

    euromd Guest

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    Agreed.

    But I still stand by the fact that othodox Jews knew when they sent their application to med school that there was a real possibility that there was going to be work between sundown Friday and sundown Saturday, at some point in their medical education or professional life.

    Kudos for researching and getting those Sabbath positions, but as far as I can see, they are not unlimited and in every specialty. And I would be the first person to replace someone for the High Holidays, if there was reciprocity so that I could attend services on Christmas and Easter. I am sure I am not the only one who feels the same way.

    -S
     
  40. medstudent2005

    medstudent2005 Welcome to the Jungle
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    Muslim men are obligated to attend Friday sermons (jummuah) every single friday. It is part of the religion. So I wonder what the Muslim men are doing to accomodate for this? any input from the Muslims?
     
  41. guanaco

    guanaco Junior Member
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    is there a residency program that would just give me the entire weekend off? :laugh:
     
  42. beriberi

    beriberi Senior Member
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    What many people may not realize is that in many residencies, it is far worse to be on Saturday instead of Sunday (and Friday sucks a lot too). Orthodox jews cannot take Friday or Saturday call.

    (Saturday is worse because you do not have a single free weekend day during the week. You are there until Friday evening, return early Sat, work until Sun morning-midday-eve, return Mon morn--and may have a midweek day off. On Sunday call, you go home Fri eve, have a night you can stay out and visit friends, go away for the eve, sleep as late as you want Saturday, have all day Saturday available for errands/enjoyment, go out to dinner Sat night, see spouse/kids on their time off from work , go into the hospital on Sun and stay until Mon.)

    In practice (post residency) trading Saturday for Sunday responsibilities is fairly easy (and easily considered fair), or so I have heard. In residency, that is not the least bit true. As Brad points out, it is easy to change shifts around when people work a reasonable schedule (if you have 40 hours a week that you work, you have 128 off--it is easy to find 24 around a particular religious observance). If you have only 24 contiguous hours guarenteed off per week, it is hard to have them all at the right moment (sundown to sundown) that fits with your needs. Also, if you work in a system where somebody has to cover the holidays, it is easy to find take Christmas and get Yom Kippur off (or vice versa). However, most residents work most holidays. (I will be in the hospital all of Thanksgiving day weekend, on call Christmas, on call New Years Eve--probably the Jewish holidays as well, though I haven't looked.) There are no easy trades when you are working so many hours (and I am in a program that is very observant of the 80 hr wrkweek.)

    What I have not been able to come to terms with (and I don't mean to start a flame war), is how anyone, including a residency program, can come to terms with what constitutes a valid belief system that requires accomodation. If I believe with all my heart that Saturday must be devoted to reflection and family, should a residency program accomodate me? Are my needs as great as an orthodox Jew? Who is to say that my belief system is more/less valid than anyone elses?

    Just some thoughts...
     
  43. mosche

    mosche Senior Member
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    As my screen name would imply, I'm Jewish. No, I am not Orthodox (I live in Tennessee for Pete's sake :eek: ). I have been watching this thread for some time now and have a couple of points to contribute.

    1) The thread was originally started in April. I wonder what the original poster decided, or if she/he has already solved the problem. Any feedback would be helpful to other Frum/interested Jewish med. students.

    2) Why do these threads always seem to esculate into an "us" vs. "them" mentality? The original poster had asked if there were any programs that make accomodations for Sabbath observance. YES, there are! That having been said, they are few and far between. Such spots are extremely competitive, and typically, as one might expect, in metropolitan areas. Likewise, there are schools in the south that accomodate evangelicals on Sundays. Again, they are very few in number and will, like the Jewish hospitals, inform the potential resident that "accomodations are not guarantees".

    3) If I have a problem accepting either of those "accomodations", I have a recourse -- DON'T APPLY TO THOSE PROGRAMS! Why is that so hard to understand/comprehend? Certainly there are programs out there that, for one reason or another, I will not like. Okay, I won't insist that they change their policies for me: I'll simply apply elsewhere. Even if they are in a prime location, offer me a great salary (as if that would ever occur during residency), and beg -- the ultimate decision is still mine. If I can't abide by their policies, I will go elsewhere.

    Please understand, as I've already said, I'm not Frum; but I do support Jews, Christians, Muslims, or any other individuals who choose to make religion a key component in their lives. Moreover, even as a Reform Jew, I would consider a hospital/university that recognizes that life has many facets; medical training is only one facet.

    Mosche
     
  44. mamadoc

    mamadoc Old Member
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    I've been watching this thread for awhile too, mostly out of idle curiosity as I don't have a dog in this fight.... well, unless you count that I'm an intern spending most of this year on q4 call including lots of Saturdays and I wanted to reinforce what Beriberi is pointing out: there is NO fair trade for a Saturday call. Saturday call sucks the worst of any call day. As Bb points out, you lose out on the weekend altogether when you're on Saturday call. Unlike a weeknight call, you're cross-covering other people's patients for the entire day and night. You're writing many more progress notes. (on the teams I've been with, you're writing notes for at least one other team's worth of patients each weekend day - so if you're Saturday call, you've got TWO days of doing double note duty whereas Friday and Sunday call are just one day of the extra notes.) It sounds petty I know but it adds up.

    I've yet to do a rotation this year where I get a day off during the week to make up for being on call over the entire weekend. So I know I wouldn't get in line to volunteer for extra Saturday calls.

    Please note I am not pointing this out with any religious prejudice whatsoever. But some of the comments being made here leave me with the impression that those of you who haven't done your residency yet don't quite appreciate just why Saturday call is SO HUGE. Those of us who get kinda hostile at the idea of extra Saturday calls aren't religious bigots, we're just jealous of our free time is all, and occasionally a little obsessed that the intense workload is distributed fairly among all interns.
     
  45. guanaco

    guanaco Junior Member
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    and I think it is just B.S that jews get this preference. I am not nice about it and I think it is wrong. I certainly could careless if some clown wearing a yarmulka wants his saturday off only because his religion says he does. If he gets it, we all get it. Enough of this stupid favoritism to a certain group just cuz they are "god's people".... f*** that.


    There,,,, yeah and I am mad about it and I am not nice about it either.
     
  46. pillowhead

    pillowhead Senior Member
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    I spent a lot of time trying to write out a reasonable response to this, but I just can't. Clearly you have an issue with Jews in general and are not just concerned about fair schedules. Many people on here have legitimate reasons for opposing having a resident take every Saturday off without resorting to such disgusting anti-semitism. Do you refer to Christians who want off Easter, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, Christmas, etc as stupid clowns wearing crosses because their bible tells them to?

    Augh...
     
  47. fourthyearmed

    fourthyearmed Senior Member
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    I'm not taking guanaco's side at all, but while most Christains may want Easter and Christmas off, hardly anyone gets it so it wouldn't be fair for the one Jewish resident in a program to get all his holidays off. All in all, I think the biggest problem with this situation is telling who is truly religious and who just wants a vacation.
     
  48. guanaco

    guanaco Junior Member
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    Call it anti-semitism or whatever you want. To me, it's just common sense. If a christian, buddhist, catholic, muslim, or anyone else wanted the saturday off, I would say the exact same thing about them. In my opinion, NO ONE regardless of who they are should have preferential treatment during residency. In my book, we are all there to work and do a job and no one should be treated differently than others. That religion crap should have no place in residency. Just do your job, do it well and shut up.

    Man I should have been a master sargeant in the army. I'd be running a tight ship.
     
  49. guanaco

    guanaco Junior Member
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    Who the hell cares what the jewish religion has to say about which day they have off. Why would I give a crap about what Jews do on their Sabbath. My point is that if you are in a residency then you are supposed to be there when you are told.
    How about if all the christian/catholic residents wanted to have every single sunday off throughout the duration of their residency? That would obviously infringe on their co-workers' time off and workload. Do you realize what kind of problem that would cause?

    Why is it that Jews have to feel they are special?? Yes, I do understand that people have the freedom to practice whatever religion they want but why do I have to bear the extra work load so that you can have the day off?


    If you want the saturdays off then do your residency in Israel where they will be more understanding because I won't be.

    Stop using the anti-semitism cop out and just accept your responsability to work when you are supposed to.
     
  50. masmaha1234

    masmaha1234 Junior Member
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    all this talk of sabbath makes me wanna rock with black sabbath! :thumbup: :thumbup:
     
  51. Siggy

    10+ Year Member

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    To be truthful, I have to agree with guanaco's overall point (allbeit, he could have been smoother with the delivery). Of course it would be nice if healthcare was a 9-5 Monday-Friday job with as many holidays as the post office, but it isn't. In the end, it is a service job. Just like police officers, firemen, and other public service jobs, we produce nothing. We provide a service. And like most public service jobs, we as the aggragate doctor workforce, are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. People get sick every day and want your service every day.

    As a whole, there are no sick days. There are no days off. We are expected to provide our service. There will be Jews working during Saturdays, Yom Kippar (sp?), and Passover. There will be Christians working on Sundays, Easter, and Christmas. There will be Muslims working during their holidays. These are the facts of this job. Take it or leave it. You don't have to go into medicine.
     

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