Salaries for different specialities

[Bill13]

I'm looking for some input as to salary differences for PhD's (Clinical/Counseling) and various specialties (e.g., Forensic, Health Psych/Behavioral medicine). Also looking for niche's that pay well, things like assessment or experience with certain populations. Does dept. matter? Will faculty in medicine make more on average than those in a traditional psych dept?

I'm a graduate student at a funded program, I have multiple interests, and options for what to focus on. I have my central research focus, should I decided to stay in academia, but clinically I really don't have one in particular. I have until next fall to decide what my focus is, and would like to gain some further information for salary potentials.

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[eudaimonism]

I am still a student as well, but have heard that careers at VAs, BOPs, and some hospitals (so basically careers with the government) are paid higher than the average psychologist. To the contrary, UCCs and community mental health centers make the least from what I've heard. I've also heard that testing pays well, but unless you do contract testing or have a private practice, I'm not sure what difference taking on more assessment as a psychologist would impact your salary. I'm not sure about where to focus in terms of academia with regard to salary, but overall it seems like forensic concentrations can be a booster clinically. Again, this is just what I've heard so I'm not positive. I think you can look up average salaries of psychologists in different settings, and universities typically have professors' salaries available, so you might look at professors within different departments (medical school versus psych department versus college of education). Overall though, I think it would be wise to get various experiences and figure out which population you would prefer to work with, as salary may not be as important as finding a good fit for you in the long run

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Quick addendum about the VA/BOP: the salary is going to be higher than most other places to start out, yep. But if you're comparing it to someone who's fairly successful in private practice, then you'll probably be outstripped after a few years unless you work in your own private side gigs. VA/BOP uses the same pay scale for all specialties, though; the main difference would be early on, when someone who completed a two-year postdoc (e.g., in neuropsych) would start at a higher grade than someone who's coming straight from internship or who completed a one-year postdoc. The main place specialty comes into play is with respect to the position posting itself (i.e., what they're looking for).

Forensic work outside the BOP (e.g., expert witness, IMEs, etc.) pays well, but it's not for the faint of heart. I'd imagine being very proficient with in-demand, high-level stats and methodology could be turned into a nice consultation skill as well.

 

[erg923]

Quick addendum about the VA/BOP: the salary is going to be higher than most other places to start out, yep. But if you're comparing it to someone who's fairly successful in private practice, then you'll probably be outstripped after a few years unless you work in your own private side gigs. VA/BOP uses the same pay scale for all specialties, though; the main difference would be early on, when someone who completed a two-year postdoc (e.g., in neuropsych) would start at a higher grade than someone who's coming straight from internship or who completed a one-year postdoc. The main place specialty comes into play is with respect to the position posting itself (i.e., what they're looking for).

Forensic work outside the BOP (e.g., expert witness, IMEs, etc.) pays well, but it's not for the faint of heart. I'd imagine being very proficient with in-demand, high-level stats and methodology could be turned into a nice consultation skill as well.

The counter to this would be that one has to running a very successful practice and working over 40 hours per week to make the true equivalent when taking into account sick and vacation, holidays, TSP match, pension, etc. Not to mention regular cola bumps in pay, stability of work, loan repayment, oops for student training/mentorship and affiliate faculty appointments.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. If someone is looking to have a VA career (or at least a handful of yrs in the VA), you'll want to get in at the GS-13 level, which is possible w. 2yr fellowship or at least a couple years licensed. The GS-12 level is more common, but the pay difference is significant enough to hold out to apply for a GS-13 position.

2. Some people view boarding as optional, but it really isn't if you are early career and work in a speciality area. This is particularly salient for neuro, rehab, and forensics.

3. Counseling centers and community mental health centers are traditionally lower paying, though some people like the fringe benefits/flexibility that they can sometimes offer: Tuition breaks (for CCs) and/or loan repayment (CMHs).

 

[WisNeuro]

This question is not easy to answer without knowing more about your career goals. Research or clinical as a priority? VA, AMC, Dept clinic? Etc.

In the end though, that salary will not mean anything if you hate what you do. I love what I do, and make good money at it. But, you couldn't pay me enough to do therapy for like 30 hours a week, or to do C&P assessments all day long. Find what you like and do that, the salary differences won't make up the happiness differences.

 

[PsyDr]

Many other posters are offering you great advice. You should REALLY look at the lifestyle of subfields. I would add that you should also look at the personalities of the people in subfields. These people will be who you deal with of the rest of your life. If you think they are unbearable or that the lifestyle is untenable, then you will be miserable.

 

[WisNeuro]

I will add though, that I find that personality of subfields has varied less so than personality of regions. I've lived and worked in several different regions and have found that to be a bigger deal than just what subfield someone is in.

 

[PsyDr]

really? I always found a flavor to the personalities in different subfields, with variations within. For example, psychoanalysts were just straight weird.

 

[WisNeuro]

Well yeah, but psychoanalysts are pretty much relegated to the coasts, which are weird people, so, doubly weird. But, I've found regional variations (e.g., southern vs midwest etc) more varied than subfield so far.

 

[MCParent]

The counter to this would be that one has to running a very successful practice and working over 40 hours per week to make the true equivalent when taking into account sick and vacation, holidays, TSP match, pension, etc. Not to mention regular cola bumps in pay, stability of work, loan repayment, oops for student training/mentorship and affiliate faculty appointments.

This, but I'd add geography matters too. I know rural psychs who make a killing working 4 days a week.

Edit: Well maybe not rural rural, but not-major-urban-center.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Not to give away my secret (kidding)...but if you stay out of the top 5-10 cities/areas....a psychologist can do quite well. NYC/SF/LA/SD/CHI/MIA/BOS and probably 5-6 other cities will be more competition, though the rest are fair game.

*edit*
Not surprisingly...most/all of the competitive cities have FSPS to flood the local market, in addition to quality programs.

 

[PikminOC]

1. If someone is looking to have a VA career (or at least a handful of yrs in the VA), you'll want to get in at the GS-13 level, which is possible w. 2yr fellowship or at least a couple years licensed. The GS-12 level is more common, but the pay difference is significant enough to hold out to apply for a GS-13 position.

2. Some people view boarding as optional, but it really isn't if you are early career and work in a speciality area. This is particularly salient for neuro, rehab, and forensics.

3. Counseling centers and community mental health centers are traditionally lower paying, though some people like the fringe benefits/flexibility that they can sometimes offer: Tuition breaks (for CCs) and/or loan repayment (CMHs).

I didn't know there was board certs for psychologists. According to this, less than five percent are board certified!
http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2010/03/specialty-certification.aspx

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I didn't know there was board certs for psychologists. According to this, less than five percent are board certified!
http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2010/03/specialty-certification.aspx

It's essentially piggy-backed on the idea and ubiquitousness of board certification in medicine. There are only a handful of areas where it's really gained some steam (neuropsych and forensics mainly, with health and rehab gaining some steam), but the idea of a specialized psychologist in and of itself is really one that's only been significantly pushed with the current generation of new folks. Prior to that, the vast majority of psychologists would likely have considered themselves generalists, with special interest areas delineated mainly by research, or by the niche they'd established in their practice.

And erg, yep, that's why in my post I made sure to stipulate that the private practice route would only apply to someone who is fairly successful. And "fairly successful" in PP can take a lot of work on the front end compared to something like a VA position, unless you just happen to somehow inherit someone's already-thriving practice.

 

[PikminOC]

It's essentially piggy-backed on the idea and ubiquitousness of board certification in medicine. There are only a handful of areas where it's really gained some steam (neuropsych and forensics mainly, with health and rehab gaining some steam), but the idea of a specialized psychologist in and of itself is really one that's only been significantly pushed with the current generation of new folks. Prior to that, the vast majority of psychologists would likely have considered themselves generalists, with special interest areas delineated mainly by research, or by the niche they'd established in their practice.

And erg, yep, that's why in my post I made sure to stipulate that the private practice route would only apply to someone who is fairly successful. And "fairly successful" in PP can take a lot of work on the front end compared to something like a VA position, unless you just happen to somehow inherit someone's already-thriving practice.

Except in medicine many generalists are board certified as well. Required for many insurances and hospitals.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Except in medicine many generalists are board certified as well. Required for many insurances and hospitals.

Oh, I know, it just hasn't spread to that extent in psych. There technically is board certification in Clinical Psychology, but not many folks at all seem to pursue it.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I can attest to making more in a rural setting.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Except in medicine many generalists are board certified as well. Required for many insurances and hospitals.

I'd actually prefer it this way. From how it has been explained to me (JonSnow, et al. plz correct if this is not accurate)…board certification has been around for quite a long time in psychology, though up until maybe 10-15yrs ago it was viewed as primarily a requirement for academics, so only a small % of all psychologists pursued it. Speciality areas that emphasize it have traditionally been forensics and neuropsych, with rehab psych being a more recent proponent. I'm not very familiar with the 'generalist' boarding option, so I'll defer that area to someone more knowledgable about that area.

Thankfully, there has been a much greater emphasis on it in the past 5-10 (more?) yrs, so most specialty areas are pushing it to be a requirement now; as a result newly licensed psychologists are much more likely to pursue boarding than say 10-15 yrs ago. Boarding is a requirement at every AMC I have trained, worked, etc. In the coming years I expect the % of boarded psychologists in each speciality to increase, for a number of reasons that have been outlined elsewhere.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'd actually prefer it this way. From how it has been explained to me (JonSnow, et al. plz correct if this is not accurate)…board certification has been around for quite a long time in psychology, though up until maybe 10-15yrs ago it was viewed as primarily a requirement for academics, so only a small % of all psychologists pursued it. Speciality areas that emphasize it have traditionally been forensics and neuropsych, with rehab psych being a more recent proponent. I'm not very familiar with the 'generalist' boarding option, so I'll defer that area to someone more knowledgable about that area.

Thankfully, there has been a much greater emphasis on it in the past 5-10 (more?) yrs, so most specialty areas are pushing it to be a requirement now; as a result newly licensed psychologists are much more likely to pursue boarding than say 10-15 yrs ago. Boarding is a requirement at every AMC I have trained, worked, etc. In the coming years I expect the % of boarded psychologists in each speciality to increase, for a number of reasons that have been outlined elsewhere.

I can say that just based on my own experience, in the past 5 years in particular there's been a HUGE push for boarding in neuro. Although that also represents the time frame when I began spending more time training with larger numbers of boarded folks and/or in APPCN-supporting programs, as well as actively looking for jobs (where, as T4C mentioned, every posting I looked into required boarded or board-eligible).

 

[smalltownpsych]

I can say that just based on my own experience, in the past 5 years in particular there's been a HUGE push for boarding in neuro. Although that also represents the time frame when I began spending more time training with larger numbers of boarded folks and/or in APPCN-supporting programs, as well as actively looking for jobs (where, as T4C mentioned, every posting I looked into required boarded or board-eligible).

I would like to see the same push for boards in other areas, too. I was just glancing at the ABPP website and the info on clinical psychology and it looks like the basic skill set that I already possess. I am wondering if we should have more specialization such as board certified for eating disorders, substance abuse, trauma, chronic pain. In my own practice these are some of the areas where I see more specialized training indicated.
Oh and I don't like that they lump child and adolescent together. My experience is that they are completely separate fields with entirely different treatments and skill sets. Some psychologists can excel at both but most are better at one than the other. I am much better with teens than the little ones.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would like to see the same push for boards in other areas, too. I was just glancing at the ABPP website and the info on clinical psychology and it looks like the basic skill set that I already possess. I am wondering if we should have more specialization such as board certified for eating disorders, substance abuse, trauma, chronic pain. In my own practice these are some of the areas where I see more specialized training indicated.
Oh and I don't like that they lump child and adolescent together. My experience is that they are completely separate fields with entirely different treatments and skill sets. Some psychologists can excel at both but most are better at one than the other. I am much better with teens than the little ones.

I know there are fellowships popping up focusing on many of the areas you've listed (e.g., trauma, substance abuse, eating disorders), so if boarding isn't already available, I'd imagine it's coming soon.

 

[Ollie123]

T4C - do you know if it has been the requirement for everyone at the AMCs you worked at, or just neuro folks?

I've had the opposite experience in that I've never seen it as a requirement or even loose expectation. I asked if it was required at my current institution and they looked at me like I had three heads. However, I'm also far outside of the traditional neuro world so that likely contributes - everyone I know who has pursued it is in neuro. I find it funny it was traditionally viewed as something for academics...I've only encountered one traditional academic who was boarded and you would never know it without looking at his CV since he didn't advertise it at all.

All that said, I think the push in this direction is quite reasonable. Given the relative lack of quality control at other levels, I think more hurdles are necessary (as much as it pains me to admit). My only concern is preservation of academic freedom and that we don't limit use/purchase of tests to boarded folks for research purposes (don't like my interpretations...take it up at peer review!). The lines between specialties also seem somewhat fuzzier for us than for medicine so I see that becoming an issue, though I think that will likely resolve itself over time.