Salary after USUHS

[Dr._2_B]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and would love for some helpful input.

I have just been accepted to USUHS for the class of 2009 and was trying to understand the pay grade chart. I am aware that a Captain is an O-3, which equates to approx. $50,000. Does this include BAH, BAS, etc. Do the residency years count toward years in the military for pay purposes, I know that they do not count toward AD repayment. I have no intention of entering medicine to become rich, I just want to compare the pros and cons of attending USUHS vs. any other medical program. If someone could throw some approx. numbers my way, I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S. I welcome any other comments about USUHS, mil. med, etc.

Best wishes, and God Bless our Troops

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[MoosePilot]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and would love for some helpful input.

I have just been accepted to USUHS for the class of 2009 and was trying to understand the pay grade chart. I am aware that a Captain is an O-3, which equates to approx. $50,000. Does this include BAH, BAS, etc. Do the residency years count toward years in the military for pay purposes, I know that they do not count toward AD repayment. I have no intention of entering medicine to become rich, I just want to compare the pros and cons of attending USUHS vs. any other medical program. If someone could throw some approx. numbers my way, I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S. I welcome any other comments about USUHS, mil. med, etc.

Best wishes, and God Bless our Troops

I believe BAH, BAS, and specialty/incentive pays will all be separate. A lot of your pay as a doctor will be in specialty and incentive pays. I'm not an expert on when these start, but they're what set your pay apart from any other Capt. I believe all of your years of service count for pay purposes, while some don't count towards retirement.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mirror Form]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and would love for some helpful input.

I have just been accepted to USUHS for the class of 2009 and was trying to understand the pay grade chart. I am aware that a Captain is an O-3, which equates to approx. $50,000. Does this include BAH, BAS, etc. Do the residency years count toward years in the military for pay purposes, I know that they do not count toward AD repayment. I have no intention of entering medicine to become rich, I just want to compare the pros and cons of attending USUHS vs. any other medical program. If someone could throw some approx. numbers my way, I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S. I welcome any other comments about USUHS, mil. med, etc.

Best wishes, and God Bless our Troops

Assuming you're fresh out of USUHS w/o any years in service, I believe that the 50k would be your net income as an intern (assuming you were in a place with a low BAH). Keep in mind that at least 10k of that is untaxable. In a place like DC, your net income would be about 60k b/c of the significantly higher BAH. Time in residency does count as time in service for payment purposes. So your pay should go up at least 10k over residency

 

[grumbo]

There are tons of websites out there to help you figure out the money thing (and many other aspects) of military life. I suggest the two below for some good info.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/
https://www.perscomonline.army.mil/OPhsdMc/medcorps.htm (see the special pay link on the right)

As for your questions in the other thread, the Air Force is doing away with GMO's, the Army has already done away with them, and Navy is trying to limit them. This means you probably won't have to worry about the whole GMO thing. As I understand it, GMO's basically do sick call and other relatively easy things, but they gain valuable real world experience. All of the services need ER docs because they fit so well with the needs of military medicine. One of the good things about going to USUHS is you are required to do a military residency. I would think that would mean if you are competing for an ER residency with a bunch of HPSPers, you would have an edge (that's just speculation).

As for USUHS, I'm very happy I came. If you can accept the fact that you are a military officer who's specialty is medicine (as they like to say in the military medicine course), then USUHS is a great place to be. If you can't accept that there are going to be some sacrifices associated with being in the military, then you won't be happy and you'll want to leave as soon as possible. To get some of those negatives, read any of MilitaryMD's posts. As a student (read limited perspective), I like it so far and can see myself putting in 20 years.

As for your money questions, the amounts below are for the '04 rate with dependents and then assume a 3 year FP residency. That should give you an idea on money. Your pay will increase each year for a variety of reasons (cost of living, time in service, promotions, etc.)

Medical School Amount
2Lt Base Pay $27,172.80
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance $17,448.00
Total $46,723.20

Residency (first 2 yrs) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $34,934.40
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $1,200.00
Total $55,036.80

Residency (3rd year) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $39,603.60
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $1,200.00
Total $59,706.00

After Residency (1st yr) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $42,746.40
Subsistence $2,101.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $5,000.00
Board Certified Pay $2,500.00
Incentive Special Pay $13,000.00
Additional Special Pay $15,000.00
Total $97,147.80

 

[Dr._2_B]

Thanks Grumbo. That is precisely what I was looking for. I guess I will have to get used to the bureaucratic mumbo jumbo if I attend USUHS. Responses like this make this website such a wonderful resource. I welcome any further comments on experiences at USUHS, or military life in general. Best Wishes.

God Bless Our Troops ,

Dr._2_B

 

[tinkerbelle]

HI grumbo

How do you like the curriculum at USUHS? Y'all have so much class. You must be exhausted afterwards... how do even have energy to study?? My tour guide said everyone goes to class... is that true? That sucks for people who don't learn a darn thing by attending lecture.

It sounds like you're happy you chose to go to USUHS... which is always good to hear Which branch are you in? How do you like your classamates? It seemed like everyone was married. So do the students actually go out a lot (not that married people aren't fun- i was just wondering if you'll still get the going to bars/ cubs atmosphere you see at other med schools)?

 

[grumbo]

HI grumbo

How do you like the curriculum at USUHS? Y'all have so much class. You must be exhausted afterwards... how do even have energy to study?? My tour guide said everyone goes to class... is that true? That sucks for people who don't learn a darn thing by attending lecture.

It sounds like you're happy you chose to go to USUHS... which is always good to hear Which branch are you in? How do you like your classamates? It seemed like everyone was married. So do the students actually go out a lot (not that married people aren't fun- i was just wondering if you'll still get the going to bars/ cubs atmosphere you see at other med schools)?

Hmmm.. just a couple of questions there. You can check out the cirriculum specifics on the USUHS website, but I'll tell you my opinion since you asked. For this first sememster, we have Intro to military studies, human context, military history, anatomy, and biochem. I haven't heard anything good or bad about other classes, so I'll just stick to what I know. The military studies and history are interesting if you have the time, but I skip them to study in the library. Human context has some pretty interesting topics and discussions (error in medicine, confidentiality, doc-patient relationship, etc.), but again, it takes too much time every two weeks. It's a good class (madatory), but I wish it was a little shorter. The real classes are anatomy and biochem. Anatomy is pretty good I think. We have some very good teachers/surgeons that give a brief lecture, then we go down to the lab (madatory) to poke and prod the cadavers . There are four of us to a body which makes getting your hands dirty pretty easy, and there are roaming surgeons to answer questions ("sir, we have no idea what this thingy is. Can you help us out?"). We go pretty fast, but when the test comes, I find I'm surprised by what stuck. Biochem is a different story. Many people I talk to don't really like the way biochem has been taught here, mostly because there is only limited clinical correlation. Another problem has been that some of the lecturers have accents that make it hard to follow anything they say. I've been skipping many of the biochem lectures and just studying on my own in the library. The good thing is they have all the notes for you (for every class), and if you just read those, you'll be fine. If you've taken either biochem or anatomy in undergrad, you'll be golden when you get here because you can concentrate on the one class you need to really work on. As for going to class, most classes are optional, but most people usually go because they're afraid they'll miss something. There's still a decent percentage of people that don't show up for class unless it's mandatory.

Differnet people study differently. For me, I try to be at school by 7:00am and stay until about 3:00. Most of that is class time, but some usually, a couple hours of that is library time. I try to put in a couple more hours when I get home. Then the weekends are used to catch up on the things I didn't get to (4-8 hours over the two days). On weekends leading up to tests, most of my time tends to get eaten up by studying (unless I am procrastinating, in which case I come on to SDN and either read long posts or write long posts). Other people stay at school until about 5 or 6 and study, but then just do whatever when they go home. Some people are hard core during the week, so they can have the weekend to themselves or for family.

I'm Army and so are most of my friends, just because we were all down at OBC together (apparently confusion leads to bonding). when you hang around the same couple dozen people every day, you're bound to find some people that like the same sorts of things you do and have some fun. Military folks are pretty interesting/fun people and you should have a good time here. As far as going out to bars/clubs, I don't know. I'm part of the married group that usually just goes home to my wife and do stuff with her. I'd say a little under half the class is married. That leaves a good 50% of the class for you to go party with.

Wrapping things up, you will learn what you need to learn. When looking at med schools, you try to find things to differentiate one from another, but in the end, they're all pretty tough and they'll all teach you the same material. Problem based learning, system based learning, organ based learning, media based learning (learning only discovery channel, TLC, and movies) - they're all pretty much the same medically. The only difference is that USU teaches you to be a soldier and a doc.

 

[tinkerbelle]

Thanks for all the info grumbo I really appreciate it!

 

[CrazyCozak]

Grambo,
Great "insider's view" about the school!
We need more posts like that here... so people are able to get a feel for it, before committing themselves.

 

[virilep]

hey, i'm definately interested in USUHS and the HPSP. i'm interviewing soon and I'm just trying to figure out how everything is gonna pan out. i'm trying to figure out about residency matching and if it's easier to get a more competitive slot like optho or derm. then i'm trying to figure out the pay differences between each years after graduation. that's a pretty difficult question to ask, but i feel like i have to know the answer. I would love to serve the country but I gotta start thinkin about this whole family thing. it's been on the backburner for a while now.... ahhh!

 

[Soccer Doc]

I would love to know who Grumbo is, because all of the points raised are excellent and he is, after all, an insider!! There are a lot of intangibles to coming to a school like USU. You have to want to serve your country and you have to have respect for those who actually do the fighting. There is a lot to be said for the comraderie and team building that comes with the officer training that occurs for all three branches of the service: Officer Indoctrination School in Newport,RI for the Navy, Commissioned Officer Training in at Ft. Rucker, AL for the AF, and Officer Basic Course for the Army in SanAntonio. You will arrive in med school having already gone through some kind of summer camp with your service-specific classmates, and bonding does occur!! These people and your anatomy lab groups will most likely end up your study partners. A lot of the students are married with families, and many are older with some prior service. Students do not have the same financial concerns nor do they have to worry about getting jobs when they graduate from residency because they are guaranteed jobs!! The intangibles include - no hassles with insurance companies, no malpractice, very limited litigation (and in this case the Dept. of Justice/military JAG officers really are your friends!), great reputation nationwide for military residency training, VERY high board certification pass rates, hands on patient contact with ALL patients (no private patients!), among the top family practice training programs in the country, collegial atmosphere, collaborative practice environment, etc. In my specialty, malpractice insurance in the area is about $115,000 - $150,000 ($180,000 in Miami/Dade County) IF you can get a policy. You can visit our website to get more information. www.usuhs.mil.

 

[GMO_52]

It's been a few years but I doubt too much has changed. The USU course of study is pretty traditional. The first semester MS1 courses aren't great. Biochem is particularly weak, mostly trivia driven. Human Context (my entire class called it "caring and sharing") is a fairly typical medical ethics-type class. Anatomy is well-taught, particularly neuroanatomy. The second year courses are significantly better. Path and physiology are well-run. You get to take a parasitology course which is fun and interesting (and has proved relevant to my practice, after all). MS3 and 4 students rotate at military and civilian hospitals around the country. You can basically go wherever you want as a 4th year if you do a little legwork, so the quality of that experience is really up to you. You have the chance for excellent trauma training, some cool research opportunities or to stay at Bethesda and Walter Reed and do more of the same (which isn't necessarily bad, my MICU rotation at Reed was one of the best experiences I had). Basically, its a strong clinical eduation (USU students do fine when compared with their HPSP counterparts). It is not a research-oriented institution and, despite being across the street from NIH, you may have trouble doing bench research outside of 4th year. I did one rotation in the clinical trials hospital at NIH but even that was primarily a clinical rotation. Obviously I can't compare it to schools I didn't attend. I chose USU over UC Davis (my second choice) mainly for colocation reasons but I'm happy with the choice and would make it again.

 

[Beerpenguin]

As for your money questions, the amounts below are for the '04 rate with dependents and then assume a 3 year FP residency. That should give you an idea on money. Your pay will increase each year for a variety of reasons (cost of living, time in service, promotions, etc.)

Medical School Amount
2Lt Base Pay $27,172.80
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance $17,448.00
Total $46,723.20

Residency (first 2 yrs) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $34,934.40
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $1,200.00
Total $55,036.80

Residency (3rd year) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $39,603.60
Subsistence $2,102.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $1,200.00
Total $59,706.00

After Residency (1st yr) Amount
Cpt Base Pay $42,746.40
Subsistence $2,101.40
Basic Housing Allowance * $16,800.00
Variable Special Pay $5,000.00
Board Certified Pay $2,500.00
Incentive Special Pay $13,000.00
Additional Special Pay $15,000.00
Total $97,147.80[/QUOTE]


Grumbo, just another question from you if you don't mind. Here's my understanding of the special pays and when they're authorized:

MSP: after residency, and after the completion of your obligated service (e.g. 7 years after residency for USUHS grads). Amount varies with category of specialty and yrs of creditable service.

ISP: immediately after residency, irrespective of how much obligation you have left. Amount according to specialty only.

VSP: just the $1200/yr for internship and residency, and at least $5k/yr after that. Varies with yrs creditable service.

BCP: like ISP, immediately after residency. Varies with creditable service.

Okay, assuming all that is right, what the deal with this RSP I keep hearing about--$15k/yr. Is that in addition to the MSP agreement you can sign for multiple years? Is there a cap to the MSP+ISP+RSP? Is RSP the same thing as MSP? I'm only asking this because there is ABSOLUTELY NO information on the web that really clarifies what a military doctor will make and when. You can patch it all together, like I have over the last few weeks, but I still have questions...thanks for any clarification you can give on how RSP and MSP work.

-BP

 

[crazybrancato]

[sorry if this has been answered, I'm sure it has]

Does your time at USUHS count towards pay? In other words, are you commissioned as an 0-3 > 4 years service?

Or say you have 7 years prior. After graduating, are you commissioned 0-3 > 11 years service ???

 

[NavyFP]

[sorry if this has been answered, I'm sure it has]

Does your time at USUHS count towards pay? In other words, are you commissioned as an 0-3 > 4 years service?

Or say you have 7 years prior. After graduating, are you commissioned 0-3 > 11 years service ???

No. The only thing your time as USUHS counts for is the retirement pay percentage. So if you retire after 20 other years active service you would get paid for 24 years.

 

[freubr]

Can anyone update this for the coming year? Thanks!

 

[DrMetal]

Can anyone update this for the coming year? Thanks!

In what sense? I don't think anything has changed. You salary after USUHS is a function of your rank (O-3), years of service (=0 if you're non-prior, or = # years prior service, time at USUHS doesn't count), and your location (BAH), and whether or not you have dependents.

 

[freubr]

In what sense? I don't think anything has changed. You salary after USUHS is a function of your rank (O-3), years of service (=0 if you're non-prior, or = # years prior service, time at USUHS doesn't count), and your location (BAH), and whether or not you have dependents.

I meant as in actually numbers, or a website where I can find these numbers, as well as numbers for specific specialities in terms of bonus pay.

 

[speedyk]

In what sense? I don't think anything has changed.

Uh, they change every year.

 

[DrMetal]

Uh, they change every year.

well of course base pay/BAH/BAS change every year . . . .I meant nothing has changed with regard to what you're entitled.

Anyway,

for military pay (basepay/BAH/BAS):
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay.html

for medical specialty pay:
http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/special-military-pay-for-medical-officers

 

[freubr]

well of course base pay/BAH/BAS change every year . . . .I meant nothing has changed with regard to what you're entitled.

Anyway,

for military pay (basepay/BAH/BAS):
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay.html

for medical specialty pay:
http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/special-military-pay-for-medical-officers

Thanks for the info

 

[grumbo]

Actually, the military.com website doesn't have the FY09 special pay increases for ISP and MSP. Most of the lower tier specialties went from $13K to $20k per year and the MSP went up a little for every specialty (except neuro, ophtho, and ENT). This means an additional $7k per year for those of us in FM and peds. It's a start.

 

[freubr]

Actually, the military.com website doesn't have the FY09 special pay increases for ISP and MSP. Most of the lower tier specialties went from $13K to $20k per year and the MSP went up a little for every specialty (except neuro, ophtho, and ENT). This means an additional $7k per year for those of us in FM and peds. It's a start.

does the public health service get paid the same? I know their rank is based on the navy's system