Salary declines...a sign of oversupply?

[capaxone]

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Hi everyone

I've been browsing this forum for a while and finally decided to start up this post about a trend in declining in our pharmacy salary. Recently, I had a talk to a friend of mine, who is a pharmacist of a big chain hospital in Southern California . According to what I heard, her hospital newly hired rate for per diem pharmacist is 45 dollars/hour. And with another hospital of the same chain, the rate for full-time pharmacist is 40 dollars/hour. While I am still shocked with this low offer, I am more surprised that some Pharm.Ds actually accepted the offers to work at this ridiculous low salary rate.

After a bit analysis, I soon realized that most people got hired were new grads. This tells me two things: 1. New grads cannot find jobs 2. New grads hate to work in retail settings, thus choosing hospital setting with whatever rate (as long as they get to work and not working in retail setting).

My questions are followed:

1. Anyone here experiencing or hearing from someone about the declining in salary?
2. How about East Coast and Central area? Are you guys experiencing the same trend?

And I am not a troll...FYI. You can PM me for more information about these low salary and what hospital I am talking about.

 

[Ackj]

And I am not a troll...FYI.

If not a troll, what is cApaxone? 😕

 

[capaxone]

I chose that sn from the drug called copaxone...for MS. Just to make it more "special" and unique.

 

[Cloud 9]

If not a troll, what is cApaxone? 😕

What kinda question is that? What does AckJ mean? What does Cloud 9 mean? How does a screen name correlate to troll-ism? And weren't hospital salaries always around the 80-90k range?

 

[spacecowgirl]

And weren't hospital salaries always around the 80-90k range?

Depends on the area. Where I live (rural), hospital salaries are much higher that what you stated.

 

[rph3664]

After a bit analysis, I soon realized that most people got hired were new grads. This tells me two things: 1. New grads cannot find jobs 2. New grads hate to work in retail settings, thus choosing hospital setting with whatever rate (as long as they get to work and not working in retail setting).

Here in the Midwest, it's almost impossible to get anything but retail without a Pharm.D. and a PGY1 at the very least. Years of experience do not count; they ONLY want people with those credentials right now. I saw in the "Pharmacy Today" that I got today that this amounts to about 1,500 people a year, so I predict these stringent requirements won't last very long when they can't fill the positions.

 

[Carboxide]

Here in the Midwest, it's almost impossible to get anything but retail without a Pharm.D. and a PGY1 at the very least. Years of experience do not count; they ONLY want people with those credentials right now. I saw in the "Pharmacy Today" that I got today that this amounts to about 1,500 people a year, so I predict these stringent requirements won't last very long when they can't fill the positions.

Ok, seriously, stop saying that when you're sending out a resume with nothing but a bullet point with a hospital name and dates on it.

 

[Its Z]

You mean to tell me the legendary poster Zpacksux was a troll for mis-spelling Zpak?

😱

 

[Ackj]

I saw in the "Pharmacy Today" that I got today

Great name for a publication, tricks you into thinking it's always current. Too bad tomorrow the name won't change to "Pharmacy Yesterday."

 

[Ackj]

What kinda question is that? What does AckJ mean? What does Cloud 9 mean? How does a screen name correlate to troll-ism? And weren't hospital salaries always around the 80-90k range?

When you have a whopping post count of 1, you have loads of credibility. A misspelling hardly helps your cause, in addition to the fact that you're starting another doom & gloom thread.

 

[Praziquantel86]

You mean to tell me the legendary poster Zpacksux was a troll for mis-spelling Zpak?

😱

Yeah, that guy sucked. Almost as bad as ItsOverZyvox, but at least he could spell. Terrible grammar, though.

 

[homeslice]

I like how 45/hr is considered ridiculously low. Wahhh!! Making 90k/year must be horrendous.

 

[capaxone]

I like how 45/hr is considered ridiculously low. Wahhh!! Making 90k/year must be horrendous.

You should know that pharmacists around Southern California area start at 55 dollars/hour (full time). I've known some places (including Kaiser), pharmacists start above 58 dollars/hours. This 45 dollars/hour is for per-diem....

 

[Pharmguy07]

I like how 45/hr is considered ridiculously low. Wahhh!! Making 90k/year must be horrendous.

When a lot of people are graduating with six-figure debt 90k isn't that much.

 

[aboveliquidice]

When a lot of people are graduating with six-figure debt 90k isn't that much.

 

[Pharmguy07]

I already hate my job. I certainly wouldn't want to do it for less money. You're a fool if you're ok with salaries declining.

 

[capaxone]

When you have a whopping post count of 1, you have loads of credibility. A misspelling hardly helps your cause, in addition to the fact that you're starting another doom & gloom thread.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I did not misspell..I purposely created my sn like that. The whole thread was not to create doom and gloom , but rather I was just curious about salaries across nationwide (declining or not?). It's that simple.

 

[homeslice]

When a lot of people are graduating with six-figure debt 90k isn't that much.

I beg to differ, but then again I'm a minimalist.

Also, some people are taking out far, far too much.

 

[aboveliquidice]

I already hate my job. I certainly wouldn't want to do it for less money. You're a fool if you're ok with salaries declining.

You're a fool for spending x amount of years to work a job you hate. and salaries are equalizing to demand, you'll find salaries are pretty high for certain jobs.

I beg to differ, but then again I'm a minimalist.

Also, some people are taking out far, far too much.

Might want to recheck your understanding of minimalism... As an example, Apple products are considered 'minimal' by design. Minimalism =/ less money

 

[homeslice]

Might want to recheck your understanding of minimalism... As an example, Apple products are considered 'minimal' by design. Minimalism =/ less money

Minimalism as in lifestyle as in less belongings as in spending less money.

Fine, fine. I'm cheap.

 

[GamecockPharmD]

I'm in a saturated area on the east coast and starting salary retail is $60/hour. No signs of salary decline here yet. And the cost of living here isn't too shabby either. I'm 15 minutes from a big city.

 

[KARM12]

Yeah, that guy sucked. Almost as bad as ItsOverZyvox, but at least he could spell. Terrible grammar, though.

I hated that guitar playing jerk.

 

[fattunesy]

Around Chicago and as far out as Rockford new grads working for the big W are lucky to get 24 hours a week. They are still getting 55/hour...but at 24 hours a week that works out to ~70K a year. That is without benefits too. Plus they get the joy of having a non-set schedule with the possibility of working overnight shifts on very short notice (a day, maybe two). Making matters worse, due to a completely saturated market, there is little chance of any of them getting a staff position anytime soon. Hospital positions? Good luck with that. I am currently interviewing applicants for an evening shift position and we are turning down applicants to even interview that have residencies and more than 5 years of experience.

The dollars/hour may not have gone down, but in real dollars, salaries are plummeting. How long before a chain decides to offer one of the people with a horrible schedule and no benefits a full time spot for a lower salary?

 

[Its Z]

The dollars/hour may not have gone down, but in real dollars, salaries are plummeting. How long before a chain decides to offer one of the people with a horrible schedule and no benefits a full time spot for a lower salary?

Can't chime in on retail. But for hospital practice, I think we'll maintain the salary to keep and hire qualified pharmacists. The last thing we want to do is get into a bidding war to hire pharmacists at a lower wage to save money. Quality pharmacy practice saves money and it requires qualified pharmacists.

 

[MountainPharmD]

You mean to tell me the legendary poster Zpacksux was a troll for mis-spelling Zpak?

😱

Sheese.....a legend in his own mind! Slaver was by far the best SDNer ever and Zpaksux ran him off. Damn you Z-pak you really do suk!

 

[IrishHammer]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I did not misspell..I purposely created my sn like that. The whole thread was not to create doom and gloom , but rather I was just curious about salaries across nationwide (declining or not?). It's that simple.

Damn straight. Mantel Williams supports you. Together we can fight to make BS a thing of the past.

 

[MountainPharmD]

If the big corp chains can f-it up they will. I would not be surprised in the next few years to see desperate grads being offered and taking lower salaries. When 100k plus student loans come due a job that pays something is better than no job.

 

[rxforlife2004]

If the big corp chains can f-it up they will. I would not be surprised in the next few years to see desperate grads being offered and taking lower salaries. When 100k plus student loans come due a job that pays something is better than no job.

sad ...but true.

 

[owlegrad]

sad ...but true.

Just how you like it! 👍

 

[rxforlife2004]

Just how you like it! 👍

Yeahh...yeah...I love it👍...love the drama like a baby mama...

 

[StevePerry]

Can't chime in on retail. But for hospital practice, I think we'll maintain the salary to keep and hire qualified pharmacists. The last thing we want to do is get into a bidding war to hire pharmacists at a lower wage to save money. Quality pharmacy practice saves money and it requires qualified pharmacists.

Z, you are losing your skepticism right in front of us. I am highly disappointed.

 

[HaloKing]

I beg to differ, but then again I'm a minimalist.

Also, some people are taking out far, far too much.

I agree, some people go a little overboard!! i came out $65,000 in the red..

BUT I may be the first college graduate to say i didn't spend enough.. If I could have done over, I would have taken an extra $10,000 and 1. eat healthier, 2. put a hot tub in my room!!!

 

[MountainPharmD]

To be fair to Z-Packs they really do not suck. It it weren't for Z-Packs, Benzos, Hydrocodone and promethazine with codiene (the purple one not the red one because the red one doesn't "work") we wouldn't have a job.

 

[Its Z]

Z, you are losing your skepticism right in front of us. I am highly disappointed.

dood...just my attempt at keeping 2% of my posts legit!

 

[rph3664]

To be fair to Z-Packs they really do not suck.

I've never taken a Z-Pack; never needed one, fortunately.

Some years back, my sister had bronchitis and was given amoxicillin. My father said, "Oh, that's not strong enough. I have a refill on my Z-Pack (long story about this) and I'll send you mine."

AND HE DID! 😱 Refilled it and Fed Exed it to her!

When I found out about this, I read him the riot act. I realize he did this out of 😍 but it wasn't prescribed for her, and what if she was allergic to it and it killed her? She flat out told me that she wasn't going to take it, and next time they came for a visit, she did indeed give it back to him.

And then it turned out to be viral anyway, and a shot of betamethasone helped more than anything.

 

[J ROD]

I'm in a saturated area on the east coast and starting salary retail is $60/hour. No signs of salary decline here yet. And the cost of living here isn't too shabby either. I'm 15 minutes from a big city.

Wait for it.....we are several yrs away.

especially when the other schools start producing graduates in the area.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Some years back, my sister had bronchitis and was given amoxicillin. My father said, "Oh, that's not strong enough. I have a refill on my Z-Pack (long story about this) and I'll send you mine."

Two reasons why azithromycin now sucks against strep pneumo.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Wait for it.....we are several yrs away.

especially when the other schools start producing graduates in the area.

Your cost of living is still insanely low.

 

[rxforlife2004]

Can't chime in on retail. But for hospital practice, I think we'll maintain the salary to keep and hire qualified pharmacists. The last thing we want to do is get into a bidding war to hire pharmacists at a lower wage to save money. Quality pharmacy practice saves money and it requires qualified pharmacists.

You can still hire a qualified pharmacist at a lower wage in these days....you know that right?

 

[fuCl]

In both serious and casual conversations with employers in the northeast it has become clear to me that salaries here are ~$52-61 depending on the place. Aside from salary, benefits are important too- I have seen an impressive variation in benefits packages.

I am not a pharmacy doomsday kind if guy.

But c'mon, I have friends from high school with all kinds of degrees either hiding in academia from unemployment of just straight suffering with BA and BS degrees working for 12/hr with no benefits or not at all. To be quite honest the idea of employers coming after us is a bit egotistical- strange how the sky is falling when we have to polish our CV's and appearance and find employment on our own.

I do feel bad for the second career people who were fooled into thinking that tacking 4yrs and 100k debt on would mean they could raise their families in the same community. That may not be the case, but that not the case is hardly reason for alarm.

 

[Its Z]

You can still hire a qualified pharmacist at a lower wage in these days....you know that right?

And I will never do that. If I did, I would be no more different than the scumbag educators opening up pharmacy schools.

 

[tongiecc]

And I will never do that. If I did, I would be no more different than the scumbag educators opening up pharmacy schools.

👍 Z you rock, at least someone in charge of something in this profession actually cares. BTW, what do you make of all the people posting that haven't found employment in 6+ months? I am quite aware that the job situation is somewhat abysmal, but you'd think something would be obtainable for these folks via relo. Just shocks me not only how much things have changed, but also how few are aware of this.

 

[Its Z]

Well, I'm sure people not being able to find a job maybe in extraordinary circumstances.

But, it wasn't long ago pharmacists wanting more hours were able to find weekend part time jobs. Those have pretty much dried up. People used to job hop all the time...trying to make extra bucks. That's stopped. Pharmacit turnover has become very low where everyone has buckled down and is holding on to a job with a death grip.

The telling stat will be with the next graduating class as I believe the tipping point of pharmacist supply vs. demand has changed sides this year.

I do believe retail expansion will pick back up when the new real estate expansion picks up. But that's at least 5 years away and it won't be as robust as before. Current foreclosure inventory hasn't been fully released by the banks yet. Perhaps 5 to 10 years before CVS/Wags decide to expand with new stores? And that's being very optimistic.

Meanwhile, the number of new grads will keep rising every year. How many pharmacy schools now..123?? 👎

 

[tongiecc]

Totally agree Z, I have a few friends stuck in jobs they are not too fond of d/t this; I also wonder if that was how many individuals were able to stay employed, when they grew tired of a position or it became too challenging or they were called out for a lack of productivity/professionalism they simply switched jobs.

On the note of all the schools opening, what do you think about the dept of ed's proposed gainful employment rule (mostly aimed at for profit institutions, stating graduates must have positive employment prospects for those enrolled at said institution to cont to recieve federal loans) for new programs/for profits schools, perhaps this could mitigate the pharm school boom if expanded upon. However it appears that if it evens passed thru congress that it may only affect the apollo group (devry, etc) subset, thus no benefit to us

 

[Old]

And I will never do that. If I did, I would be no more different than the scumbag educators opening up pharmacy schools.

So when you go to get a contract , or renew one, with a hospital, and a competing offer pays the pharms 40 rather than 55/hr. your company won't be tempted to do the same to wages? Granted there are other factors but if salaries go down I would think your company would have to do the same to remain competitive and stay in buisness.😕

 

[Its Z]

So when you go to get a contract , or renew one, with a hospital, and a competing offer pays the pharms 40 rather than 55/hr. your company won't be tempted to do the same to wages? Granted there are other factors but if salaries go down I would think your company would have to do the same to remain competitive and stay in buisness.😕

Buidling a business relationship goes both ways. We're just as picky on who we choose as a client. It hurts us to pick a client who's willing to sacrifice patient care and quality of care...and typically someone who's willing to lowball pharmacist salary would qualify as such.

My goal is to put together the best team and never have I tried to lowball a salary to save money... quality costs money but quality care saves money.

Penny wise dollar fool is no way to run a business.

 

[Old]

Buidling a business relationship goes both ways. We're just as picky on who we choose as a client. It hurts us to pick a client who's willing to sacrifice patient care and quality of care...and typically someone who's willing to lowball pharmacist salary would qualify as such.

My goal is to put together the best team and never have I tried to lowball a salary to save money... quality costs money but quality care saves money.

Penny wise dollar fool is no way to run a business.

Great buisness philosophy. I hope you never change it.