Salary Discrepancy

[deleted393595]

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Woe is me, how shall I live on $110k?!

1. You're making less than the salary of your peers doing the same amount of work as you.

2. Opportunity cost.

Now before we get into the perennial debate of whether we pay doctors too much, remember that our salaries take up just 2% of overall healthcare spending. You can blame administrative costs (20%) for taking up the rest. There's no reason why we can have a meaningful reform that can cut out those unnecessary expenses so that more people can have access to quality healthcare.

And just to preempt saggy, I will provide citations upon request..

 

[tantacles]

Have you ever lived on 56k/year? It's really not that much. I currently make ~60k/year and **** is tough. I live in a very modest 2 bedroom home (paid around 220,000 for it back in 2008) with my wife and kid. 56k is simply not enough nowadays. I spend like 400 bucks a month just on traveling to and from work with high gas prices or train expenses. My expenses increased 250 bucks a month on the 1st of this year without me adding a single dime to the budget. Health insurance went up ~75/month, the Metra service went up 40 bucks/month, homeowners' association fee went up 25 bucks/month, water/sewage went up 10 bucks/month. I didn't change a single thing from Dec to Jan and yet just the cost of living ****ed me over for 7% of my paycheck.

If you think earning 56k/year is a lot of money, just wait until you get to the real world.

I don't know, dude. I earn 33k per year (pre-tax) and live in a major city and I do just fine. No, I don't have a kid. No, I don't own a condo. I've made these choices because I want to afford my life.

56k after taxes is a lot of money.

 

[Signifier]

My takeaways from this thread:

1) I'm glad I never want to live in NYC
2) Families are too expensive

 

[IMSingular]

1. You're making less than the salary of your peers doing the same amount of work as you.

2. Opportunity cost.

Now before we get into the perennial debate of whether we pay doctors too much, remember that our salaries take up just 2% of overall healthcare spending. You can blame administrative costs (20%) for taking up the rest. There's no reason why we can have a meaningful reform that can cut out those unnecessary expenses so that more people can have access to quality healthcare.

And just to preempt saggy, I will provide citations upon request..

There are about 700,000 physicians. Average salary with FICA and other benefit is probably around 200,000. That is 140 billion. If that is just 2% of health care cost then total health care cost would 7 trillion. That is almost 50% of GDP. Doen't add up. Total health care cost is about 2 trillion. Physician salary may account for 7-10%.

 

[Bacchus]

There are about 700,000 physicians. Average salary with FICA and other benefit is probably around 200,000. That is 140 billion. If that is just 2% of health care cost then total health care cost would 7 trillion. That is almost 50% of GDP. Doen't add up. Total health care cost is about 2 trillion. Physician salary may account for 7-10%.

Regardless, it isn't a significant amount compared to other expenses.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't know, dude. I earn 33k per year (pre-tax) and live in a major city and I do just fine. No, I don't have a kid. No, I don't own a condo. I've made these choices because I want to afford my life.

56k after taxes is a lot of money.

I'm glad someone else realizes this. I don't begrudge anyone the desire to live a comfortable, enjoyable life, but sometimes people sound like that guy who wrote an article for the NYT claiming that his $300k salary for NYC just wasn't enough. He only has a summer cottage, not a mansion! His kids go to a cheaper private school! He's doing all he can, man!

It can be difficult to separate what is necessary and what you think is necessary when you grow accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm glad someone else realizes this. I don't begrudge anyone the desire to live a comfortable, enjoyable life, but sometimes people sound like that guy who wrote an article for the NYT claiming that his $300k salary for NYC just wasn't enough. He only has a summer cottage, not a mansion! His kids go to a cheaper private school! He's doing all he can, man!

It can be difficult to separate what is necessary and what you think is necessary when you grow accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

I have to agree. And I know we were arguing the differences between necessary income and appropriate income. Knowing what my salary will be in the future sickens me when I think of what my parents live on combined. Am I worth it? Yes. However, its humbling when you know where you came from.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I don't know, dude. I earn 33k per year (pre-tax) and live in a major city and I do just fine. No, I don't have a kid. No, I don't own a condo. I've made these choices because I want to afford my life.

56k after taxes is a lot of money.

See, that's the thing. You can't understand what a life with responsibility is. 33k/year is nothing when you have a kid, a home and a wife. It's not like I overleveraged to buy my home, it's perfectly within my salary back in 2008 when I bought the thing. However, my pay has stayed the same (eg gone down because of inflation), and everything else has gone up. Without doing a single thing this year, I am out 250/month because of rising costs and increased fees.

 

[Chrome19]

I don't get some of you people. $110K is a lot to live on.

I personally think physician pay will decline even further as time goes on. I wonder how medical school applicant numbers will change.

 

[IMSingular]

Regardless, it isn't a significant amount compared to other expenses.

Here is a break down.


http://www.kaiseredu.org/Issue-Modules/US-Health-Care-Costs/Background-Brief.aspx

If, however, every one says that their salary is not a problem whole thing will slowly add up to 100%.

 

[IMSingular]

I'm glad someone else realizes this. I don't begrudge anyone the desire to live a comfortable, enjoyable life, but sometimes people sound like that guy who wrote an article for the NYT claiming that his $300k salary for NYC just wasn't enough. He only has a summer cottage, not a mansion! His kids go to a cheaper private school! He's doing all he can, man!

It can be difficult to separate what is necessary and what you think is necessary when you grow accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

What is necessary is Federal poverty line? 🙂

 

[Sophocles]

I live in morningside heights in NYC next to Harlem and I do have a wife and 10 month old son. I currently make a little over 34K and we do alright. Every once in awhile we go to a museum or go out to eat and we don't necessarily live on rice and beans. We aren't millonaires but we aren't starving either. Oh, my wife doesn't work either. If we had 56K I don't know what I would do. I'm not arguing as to whether or not physicians get compensated enough, rather I am just stating that one can live modestly in NYC and still be OK.

 

[SunsFun]

You are going to be a Dr! You should not only have to sacrifice your 20s and early 30s to accomplish this, but then when you are told you are only making 110k, you shouldn't complain, because you are the idealistic pre-med and you should work for free because you are helping others. Lifetime of servitude and you better not ask for money!!!! Also 110k is A LOT OF $$$$$$...LIKE OMG....$2k/bi-weekly...>WHOAAAAA!!!! Forget retirement, college for kids, vacations, entertainment, because you are a Dr and should slave away helping others because you are an idealistic pre-med and $110k is SOO MUCH $$$$!!!!!

Silly pre-med forums. 🙄

Although I am not in med school yet I kind of like this response. I don't understand why when someone brings up compensation there is always a sentiment that you should go to PA school or dental school since it is a terrible idea to be doctor because of money.

First of all, OP never said he was in it for money only and I don't see anything wrong with it being a factor. There is a huge commitment of time, energy, health, etc.... Regardless of whether you love what you do or not, you will have to sacrifice many things and I don't see how it is unreasonable to expect to be compensated for your sacrifices.

I mean even if you love watching movies and your education and job involves watching movies 80+ hours a week and waking up at 3 AM leaving your family to go watch movies for 8 hours straight. If you have to miss all the important things in your life because you have to go watch movies, wouldn't you want to be compensated pretty darn well in the end to make all these sacrifices regardless of how much you enjoy your job?

 

[45408]

FYI, a person making $110,000/yr will take home about $2,750/bi weekly. This is after ALL taxes (in a state with a high income tax) and a 15% retirement deduction and health ins + heath club dues and charity donation. (how do I know? It's what my mom makes)
Also, anyone making new student loans will have annual payments capped at 10% of a person's discretionary income.

Only if you're doing IBR. What's the duration of the loan in that situation, and how much will you ultimately end up spending?

 

[45408]

I live in morningside heights in NYC next to Harlem and I do have a wife and 10 month old son. I currently make a little over 34K and we do alright. Every once in awhile we go to a museum or go out to eat and we don't necessarily live on rice and beans. We aren't millonaires but we aren't starving either. Oh, my wife doesn't work either. If we had 56K I don't know what I would do. I'm not arguing as to whether or not physicians get compensated enough, rather I am just stating that one can live modestly in NYC and still be OK.

Buy a house, put money in savings, put money toward retirement, take out a life insurance policy, start saving for your child's future, and have another kid. And if you eventually become a physician, you'd be paying a ton of that toward your student loans.

 

[45408]

I manage to live a pretty fantastic lifestyle on about $20k/year for living expenses. So yes, I understand what the "real world" is like. But then again I don't have a wife, kids, or a $220k home. If you think those things are necessary and yet you continue to bemoan your income, perhaps reevaluating what is and isn't affordable/necessary is in order.

...as a student. That's not "the real world," man.

 

[MT Headed]

I live in morningside heights in NYC next to Harlem and I do have a wife and 10 month old son. I currently make a little over 34K and we do alright. Every once in awhile we go to a museum or go out to eat and we don't necessarily live on rice and beans. We aren't millonaires but we aren't starving either. Oh, my wife doesn't work either. If we had 56K I don't know what I would do. I'm not arguing as to whether or not physicians get compensated enough, rather I am just stating that one can live modestly in NYC and still be OK.

You'd probably spend it all and then b**ch every time the price of gas went up. It's the American way!

 

[notafraid87]

...as a student. That's not "the real world," man.

Thank you.

 

[Narmerguy]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

 

[notafraid87]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

To each his own. You can call me greedy and selfish, but 110k yearly salary is not that much. There's taxes, mortgage, retirement/pension, car, food, and on and on. Oh yeah, add school loans w/ interest (not just medical students obviously). I'm not here to create the same old argument about how much is enough or too little...just saying that to those who think 100k salary is not enough in the long run, I understand you completely.

 

[Stumpyman]

To each his own. You can call me greedy and selfish, but 110k yearly salary is not that much. There's taxes, mortgage, retirement/pension, car, food, and on and on. Oh yeah, add school loans w/ interest (not just medical students obviously). I'm not here to create the same old argument about how much is enough or too little...just saying that to those who think 100k salary is not enough in the long run, I understand you completely.

Also depends on where you live. 110K is just enough to stay afloat in my (family's) area.

 

[blizzah]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

The vast majority of society did not spend 200k+ and minimum 7 years in their 20s in school

 

[IlDestriero]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

My father made that 30 years ago as an engineer. $110k for someone with 11-16 years of education after high school is laughable. Physicians don't have an average intellect or work ethic. Average American incomes are irrelevant.

 

[YH5]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

Considering that 25% of Americans have more debt than savings, I don't think I'll be closley examining how the majority lives for making budgeting or salary decisions.

 

[45408]

Wow, I can't believe people were really arguing whether $110k is a lot of money. Some of you need to go outside and meet some people or work a normal job. Jeesh just read some books. Learn how the vast majority of this country runs. $110k is a lot of money. Whether or not you want more or feel like you deserve more is completely personal and up to you and you're free to pursue that with abandon. But let's not pretend that $110,000 is not a lot of money in our society, because it is.

If we're going to compare ourselves to the average American, then if you have $1000 in savings, you have a lot of money. Because 64% of Americans don't.

http://www.gobankingrates.com/savings-account/64-percent-americans-1000-emergency-savings/

 

[Narmerguy]

Considering that 25% of Americans have more debt than savings, I don't think I'll be closley examining how the majority lives for making budgeting or salary decisions.

The vast majority of society did not spend 200k+ and minimum 7 years in their 20s in school

Again, I'm not concerned with what physicians deserve to be paid. As I stated before, I think you should be free to seek your top dollar without inhibition if that's what tickles your fancy.

However, I am pointing out that anyone that thinks making $110,000 isn't a lot of money is seriously out of touch with reality. You can easily make the claim that you think physicians should be paid more than $110,000. I would even agree with you. But let's avoid the absurdity of pretending that $110,000 isn't already a high income in this country.

We don't have to ignore that $110,000 is a lot of money to justify that your work is worth more.

 

[notafraid87]

Again, I'm not concerned with what physicians deserve to be paid. As I stated before, I think you should be free to seek your top dollar without inhibition if that's what tickles your fancy.

However, I am pointing out that anyone that thinks making $110,000 isn't a lot of money is seriously out of touch with reality. You can easily make the claim that you think physicians should be paid more than $110,000. I would even agree with you. But let's avoid the absurdity of pretending that $110,000 isn't already a high income in this country.

We don't have to ignore that $110,000 is a lot of money to justify that your work is worth more.

Wish you said that earlier. Of course we don't think 100k is chump change. For this particular thread, we're bickering about how doctors (along w/ dentists, pharmacists and others) are at a complete disadvantage with ridiculously high tuition and other factors. 100k salary won't justify that. Maybe for engineers/business majors w/ only bachelor's degree and manageable loans would agree with you. NOT FOR US. 😡

 

[Bacchus]

N/m.

 

[plumazul]

Only if you're doing IBR. What's the duration of the loan in that situation, and how much will you ultimately end up spending?

From the Sallie Mae website:

After 25 years, borrowers who have not repaid their entire loan balance may be eligible for loan forgiveness, which means the federal government will discharge the remaining loan balance.

So it won't follow you to the grave