Same school has MD and DO program... Why?

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Lugh

Lugh

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NSU in Florida has both a DO and MD program.

Why would a school do this? Does anyone have any inside information about this. AND the MD school is new. Are there any other schools that have done this? This seems fishy to me. Just want other perspectives.
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Money

I would be wary of most schools that offer both except for Michigan State (since the campus is large and resources are abundant)

Most of the schools that offer both degrees expand too quickly, have heaps of allied health professions programs; and don’t have enough resources for everybody.
 
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Goro said:
Touro.NY owns NYMC
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Interesting. TIL^

Also, to OP: you didn't think hospital admin$ were the only admin$ doing this, did you?
Mr Krabs Money GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants
 
Goro said:
Money and prestige


MSU has an MD and DO Program.

Touro.NY owns NYMC
Click to expand...
Do touro or NYMC students get preferences at the hospital (assuming NYMC has an affiliated hospital)? I always thought that one of the advantages to going MD was clinical training site accessibility but having 400+ students rotate seems like it would be less than ideal
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Do touro or NYMC students get preferences at the hospital (assuming NYMC has an affiliated hospital)? I always thought that one of the advantages to going MD was clinical training site accessibility but having 400+ students rotate seems like it would be less than ideal
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Don't know those details
 
They had a DO school for many years. Just opened up a MD program as their school is expanding. Why? Because it gives their school more notoriety/credibility to have more graduate degree's.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Do touro or NYMC students get preferences at the hospital (assuming NYMC has an affiliated hospital)? I always thought that one of the advantages to going MD was clinical training site accessibility but having 400+ students rotate seems like it would be less than ideal
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I think Touro's focus is more training URM and culturally competent physicians whereas NYMC prides itself on its research. Touro from what I could gleam from my visit is not super research heavy and even don't encourage for first year's (don't know if that's typical or not)
 
MateoGM416 said:
I think Touro's focus is more training URM and culturally competent physicians whereas NYMC prides itself on its research. Touro from what I could gleam from my visit is not super research heavy and even don't encourage for first year's (don't know if that's typical or not)
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From people I know in my own discipline, Ironically, when Touro took over NYMC, researcher bailed like passengers on the Titanic.
 
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Goro said:
Money and prestige


MSU has an MD and DO Program.

Touro.NY owns NYMC
Click to expand...
MSU’s MD and DO programs are in completely different cities about 1.5 hours apart. Their sharing of clinical resources and rotations is limited as far as I know.
 
Dr. Foresight said:
MSU’s MD and DO programs are in completely different cities about 1.5 hours apart. Their sharing of clinical resources and rotations is limited as far as I know.
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MD/DO programs are in different and same cities. 50 MD kids choose to be in EL. hence the overlap. Also, clinical rotation sites can be shared. My peds, IM, surg, psych rotations were with ppl from both schools. The MSU campus system is huge and can accommodate the 600 MD/DO students unlike the other schools mentioned in this thread
 
Money… I’m at NSU DO and I can tell you as an insider that the MD students are at a disadvantage here… their program is new, not as established or connected to the community, and they are competing with the DO program for resources/professors etc.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Do touro or NYMC students get preferences at the hospital (assuming NYMC has an affiliated hospital)? I always thought that one of the advantages to going MD was clinical training site accessibility but having 400+ students rotate seems like it would be less than ideal
Click to expand...
The relationship between Touro and NYMC is basically just financial. NYMC is older than the Touro University system and runs basically the same as it before Touro bought it. NYMC and Touro-Middletown students don't compete for anything because they are completely different schools - they are just owned by the Touro University System. The only real Touro presence at NYMC is the Touro dental school, which has its own building on NYMC campus, and the special focus on Jewish students and organization (observation for Jewish holidays, many organizations for Jewish students, kosher cafe, etc).

NYMC has its own affiliated sites (NYMC is ON Westchester Medical Center campus. Also sites such as Metropolitan, Lincoln, Lenox Hill, MidHudson Region, etc); it does NOT share these with Touro-Middletown as it is a completely different school.

Also, I will say that as students we have abundant research opportunities at NYMC and WMC - definitely more than enough to go around as WMC has many, many subspecialties. Everyone I know is doing some type of research and many people stay at NYMC/WMC to do it.
 
00CR7 said:
The relationship between Touro and NYMC is basically just financial. NYMC is older than the Touro University system and runs basically the same as it before Touro bought it. NYMC and Touro-Middletown students don't compete for anything because they are completely different schools - they are just owned by the Touro University System. The only real Touro presence at NYMC is the Touro dental school, which has its own building on NYMC campus, and the special focus on Jewish students and organization (observation for Jewish holidays, many organizations for Jewish students, kosher cafe, etc).

NYMC has its own affiliated sites (NYMC is ON Westchester Medical Center campus. Also sites such as Metropolitan, Lincoln, Lenox Hill, MidHudson Region, etc); it does NOT share these with Touro-Middletown as it is a completely different school.

Also, I will say that as students we have abundant research opportunities at NYMC and WMC - definitely more than enough to go around as WMC has many, many subspecialties. Everyone I know is doing some type of research and many people stay at NYMC/WMC to do it.
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this is very encouraging to hear.
 
I think having an MD program adds prestige to the school
 
feenitbeenit said:
MD/DO programs are in different and same cities. 50 MD kids choose to be in EL. hence the overlap. Also, clinical rotation sites can be shared. My peds, IM, surg, psych rotations were with ppl from both schools. The MSU campus system is huge and can accommodate the 600 MD/DO students unlike the other schools mentioned in this thread
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My post wasn’t supposed to be taken as a negative. Both MSU schools are great!
 
BAtoDO said:
Money… I’m at NSU DO and I can tell you as an insider that the MD students are at a disadvantage here… their program is new, not as established or connected to the community, and they are competing with the DO program for resources/professors etc.
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Maybe for rotations but not residency applications. All USMD are ahead. And residency applications are the only things that matter
 
FootballAndSkiing said:
Rowan has both, but im pretty sure they are basically completely separate schools, with Rowans name on them
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There is more to this answer than meets the eye. I will explain, as an alum of this school.

Nj used to have only 1 health related university called University of Medicine and Dentistry of NJ. It was a huuuuuuuuge system with 3 medical schools (NJMS in Newark, RWJMS in New Brunswick, and SOM in Stratford). Well they also had an annual budget of >$1 Billion. For 10 years, the system was under scrutiny due to Medicare fraud by a bunch of cardiologists at University Hospital in Newark, NJ.

It was then decided by the state that the school was too big and broke it up. The two MD schools went to Rutgers University (by history NJMS used to be part of Seton Hall, and RWJ was Rutgers Medical School). Due to politics, SOM was given to Rowan University (while I was at this school our student government was fighting to stay with our sister school and be part of Rutgers Camden). But, by this time Cooper Medical School was opened and was getting its first class and the powers that be decided that nope, the democratic boss in South Jersey does not want competition, so SOM is now part of Rowan.

They are two independent schools with no sharing of faculty or facilities. The Kennedy health system, which was the hospital system which was where SOM did all of its rotations was bought by Jefferson with the stipulation that nothing changes with the medical students OR the residencies.

Everything in NJ is politics. So now you know…..the rest of the story.
 
NontradICUdoc said:
There is more to this answer than meets the eye. I will explain, as an alum of this school.

Nj used to have only 1 health related university called University of Medicine and Dentistry of NJ. It was a huuuuuuuuge system with 3 medical schools (NJMS in Newark, RWJMS in New Brunswick, and SOM in Stratford). Well they also had an annual budget of >$1 Billion. For 10 years, the system was under scrutiny due to Medicare fraud by a bunch of cardiologists at University Hospital in Newark, NJ.

It was then decided by the state that the school was too big and broke it up. The two MD schools went to Rutgers University (by history NJMS used to be part of Seton Hall, and RWJ was Rutgers Medical School). Due to politics, SOM was given to Rowan University (while I was at this school our student government was fighting to stay with our sister school and be part of Rutgers Camden). But, by this time Cooper Medical School was opened and was getting its first class and the powers that be decided that nope, the democratic boss in South Jersey does not want competition, so SOM is now part of Rowan.

They are two independent schools with no sharing of faculty or facilities. The Kennedy health system, which was the hospital system which was where SOM did all of its rotations was bought by Jefferson with the stipulation that nothing changes with the medical students OR the residencies.

Everything in NJ is politics. So now you know…..the rest of the story.
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Nothing like Jersey to turn even medical schools into a Sopranos script!
 
Lugh said:
NSU in Florida has both a DO and MD program.

Why would a school do this? Does anyone have any inside information about this. AND the MD school is new. Are there any other schools that have done this? This seems fishy to me. Just want other perspectives.
Click to expand...
Nothing fishy, sometimes a medical school is mismanaged and another school buys it, even if it already has a DO or MD program. Touro has DO but it bought an MD school because the MD school was going broke. Touro was the strongest bidder financially so AMA approved the purchase. Same with a few others. Nothing fishy.
 
rsb571571 said:
Nothing fishy, sometimes a medical school is mismanaged and another school buys it, even if it already has a DO or MD program. Touro has DO but it bought an MD school because the MD school was going broke. Touro was the strongest bidder financially so AMA approved the purchase. Same with a few others. Nothing fishy.
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rsb571571 said:
Nothing fishy, sometimes a medical school is mismanaged and another school buys it, even if it already has a DO or MD program. Touro has DO but it bought an MD school because the MD school was going broke. Touro was the strongest bidder financially so AMA approved the purchase. Same with a few others. Nothing fishy.
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As far as I am aware, both Rowan University in New Jersey and Michigan State University in East Lansing, Michigan are the only 2 universities that have both DO and MD program. Though very similar in training and health services, they are 2 separate distinct professions with their own independent schools of medicine. Of interest, the MSU school was originally founded as a private entity in 1964 and admitted its first class in 1969. It then moved to East Lansing in 1971 and become the first publicly supported osteopathic school in the country. It was also the first DO school to open since 1916
 
Goro said:
Money and prestige


MSU has an MD and DO Program.

Touro.NY owns NYMC
Click to expand...
The history of the MSU medical schools is very interesting. In 1966 the MD school was opened as a 2 year school and then it went to a complete MD program later. Its purpose from the outset was to educate primary care providers.
en.wikipedia.org

Michigan State University College of Human Medicine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The establishment of the MSU MD school was just another battle in the long-term war between MSU and U of M. Every time Michigan State has expanded or done anything to further itself, the U of M has been there to fight it. Examples include MSU's admission to the Big 10, MSU's absorption of the Detroit College of Law, and the reconstruction of the MSU College of Engineering (thanks to a grant by R E Olds) after the MSU engineering building burnt down. The U of M, in a display of the most juvenile pettiness, even fought the abbreviation of MSU's legal name. If you had the unfortunate experience of talking to old U of M alumni in the 1980s, you'd hear them curse the name of John Hannah, the person most responsible for MSU's post world war 2 expansion.

For some reason there was a long established DO community in Michigan. For decades most professional athletes in Detroit were treated at Detroit Osteopathic Hospital. The MSU DO school was initially a private school chartered by the state. It opened in 1969 and was then absorbed into MSU later.
History | MSU Osteopathic Medicine

Even today, most primary care physicians in Michigan are MSU medical school graduates. Furthermore, the opening of the medical schools at Western Michigan and Central Michigan would have been impossible without the residency programs that MSU established and grew over the last five decades.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
The history of the MSU medical schools is very interesting. In 1966 the MD school was opened as a 2 year school and then it went to a complete MD program later. Its purpose from the outset was to educate primary care providers.
en.wikipedia.org

Michigan State University College of Human Medicine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The establishment of the MSU MD school was just another battle in the long-term war between MSU and U of M. Every time Michigan State has expanded or done anything to further itself, the U of M has been there to fight it. Examples include MSU's admission to the Big 10, MSU's absorption of the Detroit College of Law, and the reconstruction of the MSU College of Engineering (thanks to a grant by R E Olds) after the MSU engineering building burnt down. The U of M, in a display of the most juvenile pettiness, even fought the abbreviation of MSU's legal name. If you had the unfortunate experience of talking to old U of M alumni in the 1980s, you'd hear them curse the name of John Hannah, the person most responsible for MSU's post world war 2 expansion.

For some reason there was a long established DO community in Michigan. For decades most professional athletes in Detroit were treated at Detroit Osteopathic Hospital. The MSU DO school was initially a private school chartered by the state. It opened in 1969 and was then absorbed into MSU later.
History | MSU Osteopathic Medicine

Even today, most primary care physicians in Michigan are MSU medical school graduates. Furthermore, the opening of the medical schools at Western Michigan and Central Michigan would have been impossible without the residency programs that MSU established and grew over the last five decades.
Click to expand...
The battle between MSU and U-M goes back even further. Several times during their founding and for years after, U-M tried to absorb/shut down what was then the Agricultural College of the State of Michigan. No doubt U-M did not want to share any state revenue.
 
Drjc1977 said:
The battle between MSU and U-M goes back even further. Several times during their founding and for years after, U-M tried to absorb/shut down what was then the Agricultural College of the State of Michigan. No doubt U-M did not want to share any state revenue.
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Absolutely. The examples I listed above of sabotage of Michigan State by the U of M are anything but exhaustive. U of M opposed the establishment of MSU and eventually wanted MSU's forestry program closed. U of M, if you can believe it, wanted MSU's ag program. Fritz Crisler while serving as Michigan's Athletic Director, actively discouraged other Big 10 football teams from scheduling Michigan State which in turn led to the rivalry between MSU and Notre Dame.

See "Arrogance and Scheming in the Big Ten: Michigan State's Quest for Membership and Michigan's Powerful Opposition" by David Young, MD.
 
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I see a lot of ignorant comments here with some saying it is all about $$. VCOM is a private DO school; it is not run by Virginia Tech. The Carilion MD was founded in partnership with VT.

The Rowan DO school used to be its own entity, but because it was a state school (not private), the state legislature forced them to allign under an established state university.
 
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