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Scared D.O.

allendo

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    Ok I've been reading all about the declining residencies for D.O.'s and how the combined match effort failed! I have to admit I'm scared to go 100k in debt if I will not have anywhere to do a residency. Is there really a crisis here and maybe I need to reconsider my choice to go to a D.O. school. Will I have a future as a physician? Will there be residencies D.O. and M.D. ones open to D.O.'s. I don't understand why the M.D. world would just stop allowing D.O.s into residency positions! Are there really not enough D.O. residencies for all of the students???????? :idea:
     

    mfrederi

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      Don't worry about your future. If you grad from a DO school you will get a residency. Admittedly, DOs are not on equal footing when it comes to applying for ACGME residencies (MD residencies) however if you look at match lists from any of the DO schools you will see that a great deal of the graduates match into MD residencies, alot of which are competitive. Remember, if you can't match in the AOA (osteopathic) match, you can still go through the MD match. You actually have more options and more residencies open to you (purely numerically) than MDs. However, as I already said there are some MD residencies that are "open" to DOs, but not really open, if you get my drift.
       

      (nicedream)

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        allendo said:
        Ok I've been reading all about the declining residencies for D.O.'s and how the combined match effort failed! I have to admit I'm scared to go 100k in debt if I will not have anywhere to do a residency. Is there really a crisis here and maybe I need to reconsider my choice to go to a D.O. school. Will I have a future as a physician? Will there be residencies D.O. and M.D. ones open to D.O.'s. I don't understand why the M.D. world would just stop allowing D.O.s into residency positions! Are there really not enough D.O. residencies for all of the students???????? :idea:

        Don't worry, you'll have no problem getting a residency. As mfrederi noted, you actually have more options than an MD. The crisis some people are foreseeing would take place in the future with the continual opening of new schools and lack of opening of new graduate programs. Not now though.
         
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        DrB

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        In the Desert
          If this is your dream than don't worry and go for it. If you make it to the point of graduation at a DO school there are other opportunities out there for non-board cert physicians. If you build it... it will pay off.

          Can any one say BOTOX?

          There are many physicians out there who opt out of a residency program all together. They can still practice, but to a limited population. I would not recommend this path for I believe you need the years of residency training to build competence.

          Another thing to consider is that there are many many residency spots that you can get outside the MD and DO match. Did you know that (in some states), a graduated physician can learn from a dentist and perform root canals for >$1000/ per pop (no pun intended).
           

          OSUdoc08

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            allendo said:
            Ok I've been reading all about the declining residencies for D.O.'s and how the combined match effort failed! I have to admit I'm scared to go 100k in debt if I will not have anywhere to do a residency. Is there really a crisis here and maybe I need to reconsider my choice to go to a D.O. school. Will I have a future as a physician? Will there be residencies D.O. and M.D. ones open to D.O.'s. I don't understand why the M.D. world would just stop allowing D.O.s into residency positions! Are there really not enough D.O. residencies for all of the students???????? :idea:

            There are many new residencies projected to open up in the next few years with the AOA (i.e. Cardiovascular Surgery in Texas)

            D.O.'s will always be able to get into ACGME residencies. There are many that say this is "impossible," but even for the supersubspecialties, it depends on you performing your best. As long as you do that, then you should be fine.

            If you are doing primary care, however, then ACGME residencies are easy to get into, and depending on the area of the country, you might even find a 50/50 ratio of DO's-to MD's and DO's as chief residents.
             

            allendo

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              I have no idea what I will choose to practice most likely a primary care specialty . I just want to know that I will be able to do a residency in four years. It scared me that D.O. residencies could possibly go under and leave us out to dry. When people talk of this downfall how soon will it come if ever?? I will be a first year in the fall and really don't want the system to fall while in school.
               

              timtye78

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                allendo said:
                I have no idea what I will choose to practice most likely a primary care specialty . I just want to know that I will be able to do a residency in four years. It scared me that D.O. residencies could possibly go under and leave us out to dry. When people talk of this downfall how soon will it come if ever?? I will be a first year in the fall and really don't want the system to fall while in school.


                You need to ask some serious questions to the people at the school (wherever) you are starting. Otherwise ask some practicing physicians what they think about your DO degree. Look in your local phone book and find some local DO or MD and ask them about it.

                Everything these guys have said I can vouch for except the dental thing which may be true.

                DO degree is outstanding for:
                FP, IM, OBGYN, IM subspecialties, Anesthesiology, PM&R, ER

                DO degree is less competitive in allopathic (MD):
                General surgery, plastic surgery, Cardiovascular surgery, urology, radiology
                dermatology


                NOTE:please notice that I said LESS COMPETITIVE, not impossible.

                If you get your degree, and smoke your boards, you have a solid chances for:
                General surgery, urology, and radiology.

                The others are extremely competitive, and you may have to resort to DO residency programs to go into those specialties.


                Please remember these are my opinions only and are based on my experiences.
                Good luck!
                 

                mandar

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                  timtye78 said:
                  You need to ask some serious questions to the people at the school (wherever) you are starting. Otherwise ask some practicing physicians what they think about your DO degree. Look in your local phone book and find some local DO or MD and ask them about it.

                  Everything these guys have said I can vouch for except the dental thing which may be true.

                  DO degree is outstanding for:
                  FP, IM, OBGYN, IM subspecialties, Anesthesiology, PM&R, ER

                  DO degree is less competitive in allopathic (MD):
                  General surgery, plastic surgery, Cardiovascular surgery, urology, radiology
                  dermatology

                  NOTE:please notice that I said LESS COMPETITIVE, not impossible.

                  If you get your degree, and smoke your boards, you have a solid chances for:
                  General surgery, urology, and radiology.

                  The others are extremely competitive, and you may have to resort to DO residency programs to go into those specialties.


                  Please remember these are my opinions only and are based on my experiences.
                  Good luck!

                  I am going to be a DO medical student in fall and have few questions for you?
                  Can a person just apply to DO residency programs if he wants to get into competitive specialities like general surgery, rad., derm. If you apply to just DO spots, is it more competitive as there are not enough spots available in DO programs.
                   
                  C

                  Chronotropic

                    Keep in mind that this is just what I heard so take it with a grain of salt. DO resideny programs in derm, rads, surgery vary in their quality. Those that are high quality can be as competitive as their MD counterparts. Those that are of lesser quality can't even fill.
                     

                    OSUdoc08

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                      mandar said:
                      I am going to be a DO medical student in fall and have few questions for you?
                      Can a person just apply to DO residency programs if he wants to get into competitive specialities like general surgery, rad., derm. If you apply to just DO spots, is it more competitive as there are not enough spots available in DO programs.

                      1. Yes, it is competitive because of less spots, but keep in mind that many applicants choose to just do ACGME residencies and not AOA.

                      2. To improve your chances, it is better to apply to both AOA and ACGME residencies.
                       

                      Chisel

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                        Keep in mind that the DO match occurs before the MD match. And, if you match into a DO program then you are automatically withdrawn from the MD match.

                        Also, you should realize that many programs receive accreditation from both the ACGME and AOA.

                        Besides the above comments, you should strive to be the best Physician you can possibly be. Be competitive within your class and when taking the boards. Sit for the USMLE and do well on both USMLE and COMLEX. If you do so, you will have no problem getting into the residency you want....be it DO or MD.

                        Chisel MS III.5
                        PCOM 2006
                         

                        sophiejane

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                          An AOA residency in cardiovascular surgery in Texas? How is that possible since we don't have any osteopathic hospitals? Where is it going to be offered? The only place I can imagine would be with Dr. Peska at Plaza in Ft. Worth, but that's an allo hospital.
                           

                          OSUdoc08

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                            sophiejane said:
                            An AOA residency in cardiovascular surgery in Texas? How is that possible since we don't have any osteopathic hospitals? Where is it going to be offered? The only place I can imagine would be with Dr. Peska at Plaza in Ft. Worth, but that's an allo hospital.

                            Youre right, it is at Plaza. By the way, there is one osteopathic hospital in Oklahoma, but there are AOA sites all over the state. There is no requirement for residencies to be in an AOA hospital.
                             

                            Pitt Panther

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                              Maybe there are less DO specialty spots out there. Maybe it's "harder" to match at an allopathic residency. I say, so what! Personally, I like the challenge. If you do well academically and clinically (during your rotations), who can legitimately refuse you for residency?

                              Even though I had allopathic options, I chose to be an osteopath. My educational experience is my own and I refuse to let others dictate what I can and cannot do because I chose osteopathy. To those who would refuse me for residency in the face of good grades/board scores etc... That's their loss. Not mine.

                              Don't sell yourself short because you want to go to an osteopathic school. Sudy hard, do the best you can. Maybe you'll be the osteopath who is responsible for furthering the profession.

                              Good luck in whatever path you pursue.

                              Panther
                               

                              medicine1

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                                Many DOs have had to fight for recognition, and the AOA will continue to step up to fight when Hospitals discrimate against DOs. There are issues about being able to do a ACGME accredited residency that the AOA doesn't approve of; then you are limited to where you can practice, and where you can teach, if you decide to go down the academic route.
                                The West Virgian College of Osteopathic Medicine has written an informative Graduate Medical Education Manual:http://www.wvsom.edu/OPTI/GMEManual.pdf

                                The following thread has some information about the AOA fighting against DO discrimination: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=177187
                                --------------------------------------------------------------

                                Regarding Hospital affiliations with TCOM

                                Marc B. Hahn, DO Dean of TCOM wrote the following:

                                "We are fortunate to have affiliated hospital partners that offer a state-of-the-art environment for clinical education. These leaders in 21 st century health care include John Peter Smith Hospital, Plaza Medical Center, Cook Children’s Medical Center, Harris Methodist Medical Center Fort Worth, Baylor All Saints Medical Center, Texas Tech University Hospital-Odessa, University of Texas Health Center-Tyler, to name a few."
                                http://www.hsc.unt.edu/education/tcom/
                                 

                                Ligament

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                                  The MD residencies have no reason to take DOs. They have every reason to take care of their own MD graduates. I would never blame them for that.

                                  Therefore if you are a DO student, be prepared to seriously outshine and outperform your MD student counterparts when applying for MD residencies, especially the competitive ones. Only then will they have reason to take you over their own progeny.

                                  Keep this in mind when considering DO school. It could add up to a LOT more stress and work for you.
                                   

                                  medicine1

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                                    Dear Ligament,
                                    DOs are needed, and there are far more residency openings than there are residents to fill those spots. And there is a large need for rural physicians, military physicians, as well as inner city physicians. Don't underestimate the need for doctors.
                                     

                                    OSUdoc08

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                                      Ligament said:
                                      The MD residencies have no reason to take DOs. They have every reason to take care of their own MD graduates. I would never blame them for that.

                                      Therefore if you are a DO student, be prepared to seriously outshine and outperform your MD student counterparts when applying for MD residencies, especially the competitive ones. Only then will they have reason to take you over their own progeny.

                                      Keep this in mind when considering DO school. It could add up to a LOT more stress and work for you.

                                      This also depends on the residency. M.D. residency programs have D.O. faculty or even Chief Residents.
                                       
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