Schizophrenic medical student

[Straoos]

I am entering college this year and will be taking the generic Biology Pre-Med path. My biggest worry is that the the summer after my freshman year of high school I was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia along with the fact that in 7th grade I was diagnosed with a severe case of Panic Disorder with Agoraphobia. My psychiatrist is amazed with my progress. I finished my junior year of high school with a full load + online classes with a 3.3 GPA plus was starting to socialize. My senior year I took the hardest classes I could, participated in after school activities and had a 3.75 GPA while also dealing with an unknown stomach condition that made me drop from 160 pounds (I am 5'10") to 130 pounds within two months. Yet I still kept thinking to myself "I could do better, I could do more. I want to challenge myself more, I want a 4.0 GPA, not 3.75." I also was fully reintegrated socially. I had (and still have) a successful relationship of the female variety, have several close friends, and did all the normal (legal) things a high school student does. I've became practically symptom free other than the odd depression bout here and there and the odd 2 second long hallucination a few times a month. Decreasing the dosage of meds have proven successful with no increase of symptoms. The only thing of "concern" is that I still get quite a few panic attacks but I have learned to be productive during them and not let them get in the way of what I am doing. Even when I was working sorting cherries this summer I managed to handle the stress of stomach flu, dropping from 130 pounds to 118 within a week, standing all day with 12-16 hour work days every day and risking hospitalization without an increase of symptoms (which is another story all together, sadly I had to quit the job within 2 weeks due to health concerns and the fact that I was experiencing microsleep while driving). And yes, I am gaining back the weight I lost and recovering just fine.

I realize that medical school and being a doctor is most likely incredibly more stressful than anything I have ever experienced. I also realize that I can be a pretty big risk when it comes to treating patients as there will always be concerns of whether or not I am fit to practice. I know even the fact that I have no history of violence, suicidal behavior, and have never been admitted to a psychiatric hospital/ward won't matter much. I plan to use college as a time to stress test myself to get a better idea if I could actually handle medical school.

If things come out just fine and I actually have the ability to get admitted into a medical school, I am assuming my mental health history is probably something I want to keep quiet about, even if it is one of my biggest motivators to do as much as I can with my life and for pursuing medicine.
Am I really making the right decision and could the risks (for my patients) outweigh the benefits even if I prove to be a capable doctor. There is always that risk that I might break down and do something that would hurt a patient.
I have talked to my psychiatrist about entering medical school and he just says "You seem to be completely capable, even maybe more so than many of the people I know."
I'm really unsure if what I would do with my life besides medicine. Many people in my family practice(d) medicine (whether as a doctor, a nurse, or something else) and I have always wanted to pursue it. I'm one of the few people that greatly enjoy going to the doctor and I am known to frequently take people to their appointments just so I can sit there and watch the process at work. If it wasn't for my phone being broken at the time I would have probably asked a nurse if they could record my upper endoscopy. I kept asking the nurses "What is that you are sticking in my IV? What is the purpose of that? How do you like your job? How does that work, what exactly is it doing with my body?" and was just generally curious about everything.

I guess I could sum every up by asking:
Could I be a capable doctor that dealt with (living) patients daily?

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[SpecterGT260]

I believe there may be policy that will make this plan difficult... but I could be wrong.

 

[mimelim]

When I applied for a Texas medical license I was asked if I had ever been diagnosed with a mental health illness. I have no idea how that question is legal to ask, but it was most certainly there. I would assume some other states have something similar. I have no idea if they will actually hold it against you, but something to think about/look into.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Your question is a very difficult one to answer. In truth, a lot of it will depend on how you do over the next few years of college. If your condition doesn't progress and you are able to minimize your panic episodes, theoretically you could go to medical school, assuming good grades and all. I would say that if your dream is to be a doctor, then by all means work towards it, both in terms of controlling your conditions and achieving in college.

Most schools don't look to deeply into their students' medical history prior to accepting them.

 

[notbobtrustme]

yea, I know we are supposed to be against discrimination, but certain problems cannot be overlooked. I think this is one of them.

Best of luck, but if I were an adcom, I'd take a long and heavy look at your application.

 

[Mokthraka]

I know someone who did it.

 

[LizzyM]

When I applied for a Texas medical license I was asked if I had ever been diagnosed with a mental health illness. I have no idea how that question is legal to ask, but it was most certainly there. I would assume some other states have something similar. I have no idea if they will actually hold it against you, but something to think about/look into.

Answering "yes" to such a question isn't an automatic roadblock to licensure but would require additional explanation to describe how the condition, if ongoing, is being managed. I know several physician who obtained medical licenses after being treated by psychiatrists for depression. Each applicant would be considered on a case-by-case basis, I'm sure.

 

[Yoseph101]

Definately go for it man! Make sure you manage your symptoms well and build a really strong support system. Look up Elyn saks' Ted talk it can Definately be done.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

yea, I know we are supposed to be against discrimination, but certain problems cannot be overlooked. I think this is one of them.

Best of luck, but if I were an adcom, I'd take a long and heavy look at your application.

Why? OP seems to have all of his symptoms under control and is sociable, I'm not quite sure how a disease that is being managed would make OP any worse of a doctor than anyone else. Instead of schizophrenia, if OP said he had another disease, say cancer, would you question his application then?

Many people with schizophrenia live perfectly normal lives, and if you want to be a doctor, don't let your disease get in your way, whether that disease is schizophrenia or gingivitis.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Why? OP seems to have all of his symptoms under control and is sociable, I'm not quite sure how a disease that is being managed would make OP any worse of a doctor than anyone else. Instead of schizophrenia, if OP said he had another disease, say cancer, would you question his application then?

Many people with schizophrenia live perfectly normal lives, and if you want to be a doctor, don't let your disease get in your way, whether that disease is schizophrenia or gingivitis.

How about ALS?

 

[Bacchus]

Answering "yes" to such a question isn't an automatic roadblock to licensure but would require additional explanation to describe how the condition, if ongoing, is being managed. I know several physician who obtained medical licenses after being treated by psychiatrists for depression. Each applicant would be considered on a case-by-case basis, I'm sure.

Just another reason so many in the medical profession hide this.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

How about ALS?

Alright motor neurological diseases might pose a problem, especially if the person with it wants to be a surgeon, but I'm talking in general about diseases that, while being managed, don't largely affect the person's mental or physical capabilities.

 

[Yoseph101]

How about ALS?

People with ALS have been a legendary baseball players and a revolutionary astrophysicist. Physician isn't that much of a stretch. There is strength in letting people with chronic illness become doctors. Medical education shouldn't be denied to anyone qualified in my opinion.

 

[SpecterGT260]

People with ALS have been a legendary baseball players and a revolutionary astrophysicist. Physician isn't that much of a stretch. There is strength in letting people with chronic illness become doctors. Medical education shouldn't be denied to anyone qualified in my opinion.

Yeah all those fine motor skills that Hawkins uses And remember the good ol' Lou had his career ended by the disease.

Really? Did you really think I didn't already have them in mind when I posted that? These were literally the worst two examples you could have used. As a pre-existing condition, to relate to the OP, admitting someone with ALS would be a terrible investment.

Why don't you define "qualified" real quick.... honestly, the ability to perform the physical aspects of the job is a "qualification". Every medical app has physical standards that we all sign and agree to. It may sound "unfair", but if you cannot physically perform the job you cannot do the job - its that simple. "House MD" is fiction

 

[HM3]

Answering "yes" to such a question isn't an automatic roadblock to licensure but would require additional explanation to describe how the condition, if ongoing, is being managed. I know several physician who obtained medical licenses after being treated by psychiatrists for depression. Each applicant would be considered on a case-by-case basis, I'm sure.

I'd be more concerned with the fact they'd disclose this to you on an application.

Please. OP, if this is what you want to do and YOU feel you are capable- do it. Don't disclose it to your educators and employers. I would think this sort of thing is common sense.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I'd be more concerned with the fact they'd disclose this to you on an application.

Please. OP, if this is what you want to do and YOU feel you are capable- do it. Don't disclose it to your educators and employers. I would think this sort of thing is common sense.

Not disclosing when asked to may be a good way to get yourself black-balled.

 

[HM3]

Not disclosing when asked to may be a good way to get yourself black-balled.

Who would find out? And how?

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Not disclosing when asked to may be a good way to get yourself black-balled.

So you're open to disclosing everything about one's life to a possible employer even if it doesn't affect your ability to perform your job? That is absolutely crazy. What if I was a cross-dresser? As long as it doesn't affect my ability to do my work, my employer doesn't need to know that I enjoy wearing women's clothing, but if I did tell my employer, my chances of getting or keeping that job are pretty slim.

 

[mmmcdowe]

People with ALS have been a legendary baseball players and a revolutionary astrophysicist. Physician isn't that much of a stretch. There is strength in letting people with chronic illness become doctors. Medical education shouldn't be denied to anyone qualified in my opinion.

The player you are referring to had adult onset ALS, it didn't get him until he was a star. You are correct about Hawking, he developed it in his college years I believe. However, Dr. Hawking couldn't be a physician (maybe theoretically he could do psych, but not practically).

 

[SpecterGT260]

Who would find out? And how?

You do realize there are records for these sorts of things, right? Also the need for continued care would make it quite difficult to hide such things. I envision it a little bit like lying about a criminal history on your Law Enforcement application. Could you hide it? Sure. Can you say it will never catch up to you (especially a condition which requires continued care)? uh..... go for it an let me know how it turns out

 

[HM3]

So you're open to disclosing everything about one's life to a possible employer even if it doesn't affect your ability to perform your job? That is absolutely crazy. What if I was a cross-dresser? As long as it doesn't affect my ability to do my work, my employer doesn't need to know that I enjoy wearing women's clothing, but if I did tell my employer, my chances of getting or keeping that job are pretty slim.

It's easy to judge people. But realistically, no one should disclose this sort of thing - and I'm sure thousands do not. Also, if one were to be "black-balled", it would certainly be preceded with litigation.

 

[SpecterGT260]

So you're open to disclosing everything about one's life to a possible employer even if it doesn't affect your ability to perform your job? That is absolutely crazy. What if I was a cross-dresser? As long as it doesn't affect my ability to do my work, my employer doesn't need to know that I enjoy wearing women's clothing, but if I did tell my employer, my chances of getting or keeping that job are pretty slim.

this isnt what I said. you are being idealistic to the point of being silly. You have to disclose any criminal history. Do you think someone who got an alcohol possession as a college sophomore is less qualified to be a doctor than someone who is completely immobilized or someone who requires constant psychiatric monitoring? Try hiding a public intox or possession on a med school app and use this argument with the ADCOM

stating "this is the way it is" is not the same as saying "this is how it should be". Please think a little bit about that last point before you respond because I feel you have missed it completely

 

[Poetic Silence]

Psychiatric illnesses are included under the Americans with Disabilities Act. As long as you are able to perform the role of a physician with or without reasonable accommodations, you cannot legally be discriminated against.

It sounds to me like you are managing better than ok and thus you cannot be discriminated against in your pursuits of professional education and employment.

You also have the legal right NOT to disclose your disability when applying for medical school, residency and future employment. I strongly encourage you to take advantage of that legally protected right.

I, too, am an American with disabilities. Heating impairment being numero uno. However, few would know that I am deaf without me disclosing that information. I speak verbally and read lips expertly. I have been illegally discriminated against when I applied to a CNA training program several years ago. I ended up choosing not to pursue legal action despite having a golden case.

This is a very personal issue for me and I advise you to read up on your rights until you can recite them by heart.

Good luck in your pursuits.


Sincerely,



Poetic Silence

 

[HM3]

You do realize there are records for these sorts of things, right? Also the need for continued care would make it quite difficult to hide such things. I envision it a little bit like lying about a criminal history on your Law Enforcement application. Could you hide it? Sure. Can you say it will never catch up to you (especially a condition which requires continued care)? uh..... go for it an let me know how it turns out

Short of a psychological exam adminstered by whatever agency asking, there's no way.

 

[HM3]

this isnt what I said. you are being idealistic to the point of being silly. You have to disclose any criminal history. Do you think someone who got an alcohol possession as a college sophomore is less qualified to be a doctor than someone who is completely immobilized or someone who requires constant psychiatric monitoring? Try hiding a public intox or possession on a med school app and use this argument with the ADCOM

stating "this is the way it is" is not the same as saying "this is how it should be". Please think a little bit about that last point before you respond because I feel you have missed it completely

You have no point, because you're comparing criminal history to medical history.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Short of a psychological exam adminstered by whatever agency asking, there's no way.

ok. I find it amusing how black and white you are on this. I suspect if you were in this position - either with potential issues with psychiatric issues or the more common legal misdemeanors, you wouldn't be so quick to say "hide it"

 

[SpecterGT260]

You have no point, because you're comparing criminal history to medical history.

Riiiiiiight, because while the coppers are so 'mart and keep records of such things, we doctors never figured that out. Medical patient records are all still word of mouth and cave paintings
The comparison to another records system which routinely bites people in the ass is perfectly valid. It may not be "right" in the subjective moral sense, but in terms of lying to an adcom or a PD who explicitly asks (if they were to ask) the comparison still applies. If you are unable to see that then I don't see much use in pursuing this discussion much further. You need to possess the ability to think in terms of how things actually work and not simply in terms of how you want them to work.
Seriously, who exactly are you? I suspect idealistic pre-med who will be applying next year..... right?

 

[HM3]

ok. I find it amusing how black and white you are on this. I suspect if you were in this position - either with potential issues with psychiatric issues or the more common legal misdemeanors, you wouldn't be so quick to say "hide it"

Well for one thing, they're completely different. One - federal law allows background checks for. The other, federal law protects the right for nondisclosure. See the difference? PT Confidentiality wasn't gone over yet in school?

 

[HM3]

Riiiiiiight, because while the coppers are so 'mart and keep records of such things, we doctors never figured that out. Medical patient records are all still word of mouth and cave paintings
Seriously, who exactly are you? I suspect idealistic pre-med who will be applying next year..... right?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Psychiatric illnesses are included under the Americans with Disabilities Act. As long as you are able to perform the role of a physician with or without reasonable accommodations, you cannot legally be discriminated against.

It sounds to me like you are managing better than ok and thus you cannot be discriminated against in your pursuits of professional education and employment.

You also have the legal right NOT to disclose your disability when applying for medical school, residency and future employment. I strongly encourage you to take advantage of that legally protected right.

I, too, am an American with disabilities. Heating impairment being numero uno. However, few would know that I am deaf without me disclosing that information. I speak verbally and read lips expertly. I have been illegally discriminated against when I applied to a CNA training program several years ago. I ended up choosing not to pursue legal action despite having a golden case.

This is a very personal issue for me and I advise you to read up on your rights until you can recite them by heart.

Good luck in your pursuits.


Sincerely,



Poetic Silence

Honestly, despite the wide reaching concern of degeneration, in many ways schizophrenia is the less concerning of the two. Medical schools are much more concerned about your current status to perform rather than your future. So long as you aren't having repeated relapses and medication adherence is good, that one I can buy. To me, the more concerning one is the panic attacks. If you are having lots of panic attacks, that's a serious concern for medical schools. Having them during exams, during the Step 1, in the OR, and on the wards would be very difficult to accommodate. The last thing a residency program wants is an intern who is going to be incapacitated multiple times a week in a way that could significantly compromise patient care.

As far as the ADA is concerned:

Preadmission inquiry as to whether a person is disabled is not permitted, but a school may seek as much information as is needed to make a determination that an individual can perform the "essential functions" or meet the "essential eligibility requirements" of the educational program.
-Current approved stance of the AAMC

 

[AdrianVeidt]

this isnt what I said. you are being idealistic to the point of being silly. You have to disclose any criminal history. Do you think someone who got an alcohol possession as a college sophomore is less qualified to be a doctor than someone who is completely immobilized or someone who requires constant psychiatric monitoring? Try hiding a public intox or possession on a med school app and use this argument with the ADCOM stating "this is the way it is" is not the same as saying "this is how it should be". Please think a little bit about that last point before you respond because I feel you have missed it completely

I believe you are the one to miss the entire scope and purpose of this thread. You are talking in extremes (ALS and now constant psychiatric monitoring) while this is about someone who is in complete control of his disease. As for your point on disclosure, no I completely understood what you were trying to convey with the importance of disclosing information when asked about it (even though my gut tells me that asking about one's mental health isn't exactly legal unless that job also asks you about your physical health, and even if it does that, there is the ethical dilemma of what is considered imminent to disclosure), but in my situation with the cross-dressing doctor, wouldn't it be important to disclose this information because it could possibly make a patient uncomfortable and in the end, the patient comes first?

Yes, this point is silly but it must be made in order to show the equal silliness of saying that someone with a controllable disease cannot become a doctor because society has stigmatized that disease with stupid episodes of law and order and movies with russell crowe.

 

[HM3]

Honestly, despite the wide reaching concern of degeneration, in many ways schizophrenia is the less concerning of the two. Medical schools are much more concerned about your current status to perform rather than your future. So long as you aren't having repeated relapses and medication adherence is good, that one I can buy. To me, the more concerning one is the panic attacks. If you are having lots of panic attacks, that's a serious concern for medical schools. Having them during exams, during the Step 1, in the OR, and on the wards would be very difficult to accommodate. The last thing a residency program wants is an intern who is going to be incapacitated multiple times a week in a way that could significantly compromise patient care.

I find it funny that "Medical Students" are giving their opinion to someone on the internet about his capability as a Doctor. I mean, he doesn't have Psychiatrist or anything..so why not.

 

[mmmcdowe]

For further discussion, here is an example of a medical school technical requirements:

• he University of Washington School of Medicine curriculum requires essential abilities in information acquisition. The student must have the ability to master information presented in course work in the form of lectures, written material, and projected images.
• The student must have the cognitive abilities necessary to master relevant content in basic science and clinical courses at a level deemed appropriate by the faculty. These skills may be described as the ability to comprehend, memorize, analyze and synthesize material. He/she must be able to discern and comprehend dimensional and spatial relationships of structures, and be able to develop reasoning and decision making skills appropriate to the practice of medicine.
• The student must have the ability to take a medical history and perform a physical examination. Such tasks require the ability to communicate with the patient. The student must also be capable of perceiving the signs of disease as manifested through the physical examination. Such information is derived from images of the body surfaces, palpable changes in various organs, and auditory information (patient voice, heart tones, bowel and lung sounds).
• The student must have the ability to discern skin, subcutaneous masses, muscles, joints, lymph nodes, and intra-abdominal organs (for example, liver and spleen). The student must be able to perceive the presence or absence of densities in the chest and masses in the abdomen.
• The student must be able to communicate effectively with patients and family, physicians and other members of the health care team. The communication skills require the ability to assess all information including the recognition of the significance of non-verbal responses and immediate assessment of information provided to allow for appropriate, well-focused follow-up inquiry. The student must be capable of responsive, empathetic listening to establish rapport in a way that promotes openness on issues of concern and sensitivity to potential cultural differences.
• The student must be able to process and communicate information on the patient’s status with accuracy in a timely manner to physician colleagues and other members of the health care team. This information then needs to be communicated in a succinct yet comprehensive manner and in settings in which times available is limited. Written or dictated patient assessments, prescriptions, etc., must be complete and accurate. The appropriate communication may also rely on the student’s ability to make a correct judgment in seeking supervision and consultation in a timely manner.
• The student must be able to understand the basis and content of medical ethics. He/she must possess attributes which include compassion, empathy, altruism, integrity, responsibility and tolerance. He/she must have the emotional stability to function effectively under stress and to adapt to an environment which may change rapidly without warning and/or in unpredictable ways.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I believe you are the one to miss the entire scope and purpose of this thread. You are talking in extremes (ALS and now constant psychiatric monitoring) while this is about someone who is in complete control of his disease. As for your point on disclosure, no I completely understood what you were trying to convey with the importance of disclosing information when asked about it (even though my gut tells me that asking about one's mental health isn't exactly legal unless that job also asks you about your physical health, and even if it does that, there is the ethical dilemma of what is considered imminent to disclosure), but in my situation with the cross-dressing doctor, wouldn't it be important to disclose this information because it could possibly make a patient uncomfortable and in the end, the patient comes first?

Yes, this point is silly but it must be made in order to show the equal silliness of saying that someone with a controllable disease cannot become a doctor because society has stigmatized that disease with stupid episodes of law and order and movies with russell crowe.

yeah..... nobody said that someone with a controllable disease shouldnt be a doctor. I havent even said that this guy shouldnt be. You inferred it because you arent keeping with the context of the posts. If he makes it in it will likely be due to the discretion of those above me so I have very little to say. I was responding to your post here:

Why? OP seems to have all of his symptoms under control and is sociable, I'm not quite sure how a disease that is being managed would make OP any worse of a doctor than anyone else. Instead of schizophrenia, if OP said he had another disease, say cancer, would you question his application then?

Many people with schizophrenia live perfectly normal lives, and if you want to be a doctor, don't let your disease get in your way, whether that disease is schizophrenia or gingivitis.

in which you imply that diseases should be irrelevant. This is why I brought up ALS, which would functionally exclude anyone regardless of what your feelings say combating an over-generalization or hyped up sweeping statement isn't the same as missing the point of the thread. It is making sure we don't get too carried away.

I find it funny that "Medical Students" are giving their opinion to someone on the internet about his capability as a Doctor. I mean, he doesn't have Psychiatrist or anything..so why not.

He asked Also, it isnt like a doctors note is going to do much for an adcom. it is a subjective process which includes both medical and non-medical personnel. His condition, if explicitly asked for, will likely cause an issue. But as LizzyM said (and since you're new... she is an ADCOM member, herself) it won't necessarily lock the door. Just make it a little harder to open.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I find it funny that "Medical Students" are giving their opinion to someone on the internet about his capability as a Doctor. I mean, he doesn't have Psychiatrist or anything..so why not.

I didn't seek this student out, he came to get advice. His psychiatrist may or may not be able to discuss in detail the student's ability to go to medical school, though I encourage him to bring it up with his physicians he sees who know the level of disability and the extent that it is being controlled. We are simply discussing theoreticals here and no medical advice is being given.

 

[HM3]

I didn't seek this student out, he came to get advice. His psychiatrist may or may not be able to discuss in detail the student's ability to go to medical school, though I encourage him to bring it up with his physicians he sees who know the level of disability and the extent that it is being controlled. We are simply discussing theoreticals here and no medical advice is being given.

Yes no medical advise is being given correct. But advise is given nonetheless. His physician and himself are the best people to determine what his capabilities are- and I think that is the best advice to give. I gave my opinion, just as you did yours.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

No, my assumption was made from your insinuation-by-questioning. As for your rationale for bringing up ALS, it is now clear that you missed the purpose of my post. It was not to say that everyone with a disease can become a doctor, it was to say that everyone with a controllable disease that won't affect the patient in any way can become a doctor. Notice the words 'disease that is being managed' in my original post.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Yes no medical advise is being given correct. But advise is given nonetheless. His physician and himself are the best people to determine what his capabilities are- and I think that is the best advice to give. I gave my opinion, just as you did yours.

The problem is that being a physician doesn't mean you know anything about current admissions standards for medical school. If nothing else the OP has now obtained commentary about the possible set backs and concerns that admissions committees might have, and can evaluate this in the context of his specific disease severity with his physician. Just because there is a better source of specific advice doesn't mean that hearing the generalizations isn't helpful too.

 

[HM3]

yeah..... nobody said that someone with a
He asked Also, it isnt like a doctors note is going to do much for an adcom. it is a subjective process which includes both medical and non-medical personnel. His condition, if explicitly asked for, will likely cause an issue. But as LizzyM said (and since you're new... she is an ADCOM member, herself) it won't necessarily lock the door. Just make it a little harder to open.

I think you need to do some reading before you make posts, it helps. I didn't say for him to present a "doctors note". Secondly, I've INFORMED you several times- that there is no obligation to disclose his mental illness, and that there is no way for them to find out if he doesn't. If you don't believe me, that's fine. But it is the truth.

 

[HM3]

The problem is that being a physician doesn't mean you know anything about current admissions standards for medical school. If nothing else the OP has now obtained commentary about the possible set backs and concerns that admissions committees might have, and can evaluate this in the context of his specific disease severity with his physician. Just because there is a better source of specific advice doesn't mean that hearing the generalizations isn't helpful too.

How would adcoms know of his condition?

 

[mmmcdowe]

How would adcoms know of his condition?

Assuming that he doesn't lie, the assessment of technical standards (which at least at my school is part of the admission committees job even though it occurs after acceptance and before matriculation) could potentially out him even without the school learning of the specific diagnosis. Further, even if the student has been admitted, if he begins melting down during medical school, it ultimately is not in his benefit to have wasted the time and the money. This question wasn't just about admission, it was also about:

Could I be a capable doctor that dealt with (living) patients daily?

 

[HM3]

Assuming that he doesn't lie, the assessment of technical standards (which at least at my school is part of the admission committees job even though it occurs after acceptance and before matriculation) could potentially out him even without the school learning of the specific diagnosis. Further, even if the student has been admitted, if he begins melting down during medical school, it ultimately is not in his benefit to have wasted the time and the money. This question wasn't just about admission, it was also about:

Yes quotes are helpful:

I am assuming my mental health history is probably something I want to keep quiet about, even if it is one of my biggest motivators to do as much as I can with my life and for pursuing medicine."

And also would this be lying? Is the question about his mental health asked? You're the Med Student and all, maybe you know?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Yes quotes are helpful:



And also would this be lying? Is the question about his mental health asked? You're the Med Student and all, maybe you know?

Again, as I said the technical qualifications assessment doesn't out the student's diagnosis, it asks the student to sign in good faith that they are capable of a wide variety of things. If in a few years the OP and his physician feels that he cannot meet one or more criteria based on his conditions, then it would be lying to say otherwise on the assessment. I posted an example above, here is one that could be of concern:

He/she must have the emotional stability to function effectively under stress and to adapt to an environment which may change rapidly without warning and/or in unpredictable ways.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I think you need to do some reading before you make posts, it helps. I didn't say for him to present a "doctors note". Secondly, I've INFORMED you several times- that there is no obligation to disclose his mental illness, and that there is no way for them to find out if he doesn't. If you don't believe me, that's fine. But it is the truth.

You have not done this. we had a poster just a bit ago say that he was asked to disclose any mental health diagnoses.... I mean come on now don't get smug when you are simply missing these things

 

[HM3]

Again, as I said the technical qualifications assessment doesn't out the student's diagnosis, it asks the student to sign in good faith that they are capable of a wide variety of things. If in a few years the OP and his physician feels that he cannot meet one or more criteria based on his conditions, then it would be lying to say otherwise on the assessment. I posted an example above, here is one that could be of concern:

Well you're kinda dealing with what-ifs while I'm addressing what he wrote.
And even in your scenario, it still kinda weighs on him and his physician

But I digress, there are indeed an array of health problems which could inhibit a student's ability to learn, let alone care for someone. I agree with you there.

 

[SpecterGT260]

No, my assumption was made from your insinuation-by-questioning. As for your rationale for bringing up ALS, it is now clear that you missed the purpose of my post. It was not to say that everyone with a disease can become a doctor, it was to say that everyone with a controllable disease that won't affect the patient in any way can become a doctor. Notice the words 'disease that is being managed' in my original post.

I get bored quickly when this becomes wheel spinning... I understood your point just fine. Simply understanding your intent does not take discussion of the point off the table. You did in fact say that one should not be discriminated against because of mental health. There is inappropriate rhetoric at work there. One could very well be incapable of performing competently due to a number of illnesses. It isn't appropriate to make the point and just assume that everyone is on board with the conditional meaning

 

[HM3]

You have not done this. we had a poster just a bit ago say that he was asked to disclose any mental health diagnoses.... I mean come on now don't get smug when you are simply missing these things

Yes because anecdotes are always true. Always. In that case, we also had a poster a bit ago who offered the notion that there was no obligation to disclose. Wait I said this as well! In fact the very poster you mention questioned it's legality. I'm not getting smug, I just simply asked you to read before you replied. You misinterpreted a lot in this thread.

 

[Yoseph101]

Yeah all those fine motor skills that Hawkins uses And remember the good ol' Lou had his career ended by the disease.

Really? Did you really think I didn't already have them in mind when I posted that? These were literally the worst two examples you could have used. As a pre-existing condition, to relate to the OP, admitting someone with ALS would be a terrible investment.

Why don't you define "qualified" real quick.... honestly, the ability to perform the physical aspects of the job is a "qualification". Every medical app has physical standards that we all sign and agree to. It may sound "unfair", but if you cannot physically perform the job you cannot do the job - its that simple. "House MD" is fiction

I know that a quadrapalegic was admitted to Hopkins. There have been blind medical students and students with varying degrees of disability. Their schools obviously knew they couldn't preform the physical aspects of the job yet still thought they added value to the profession and the degree. Reasonable accommodations can and should be made. I would argue that people with severe disabilities add a very valuable perspective as physicians. Not everybody needs to end up as a neurosurgeon.

Also, this is the student doctor forum not the student pretentiousness forum

 

[SpecterGT260]

Yes because anecdotes are always true. Always. In that case, we also had a poster a bit ago who offered the notion that there was no obligation to disclose. Wait I said this as well! In fact the very poster you mention questioned it's legality. I'm not getting smug, I just simply asked you to read before you replied. You misinterpreted a lot in this thread.

No. I really didn't. If you think that strict adherence to only what is relevant to the OPs situation is somehow a requirement and discussion of points made by others is somehow wrong... Id like to welcome you to the internet

 

[SpecterGT260]

Also, this is the student doctor forum not the student pretentiousness forum

This is ironic....