Schizophrenic medical student

[HM3]

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Being right does not make someone pretentious Specter. But like you said, it's the internet. Being this is the internet though- I implore you to utilize it's record keeping, look up the word pretentious, and re-read this thread.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I know that everyone hates that Monday morning is approaching, but let's keep things on topic.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Being right does not make someone pretentious Specter. But like you said, it's the internet. Being this is the internet though- I implore you to utilize it's record keeping, look up the word pretentious, and re-read this thread.

again.... ironic....

 

[UrshumMurshum]

OP: I believe this was asked on the psychiatrist part of this forum. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=667107&highlight=schizophrenic

Although they tended to think not, there was a mention of radiologist who had schizophrenia.

Your major hurdle will be at the licensing step, you can conceal the schizophrenia legally up to that point, but I believe you would have to disclose a mental illness such as schizophrenia. If the above report is true, then yes it would be possible to be licensed as a physician. I imagine this is highly dependent on your ability to control it.

 

[HM3]

I know that everyone hates that Monday morning is approaching, but let's keep things on topic.

Refer to your Avatar .

On topic though mmmcdowe, disclosing paranoid schizophreni when there is no need to (per his current state and your guidelines) would do nothing but raise red flags. Why should the OP do this?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Refer to your Avatar .

On topic though mmmcdowe, disclosing paranoid schizophreni when there is no need to (per his current state and your guidelines) would do nothing but raise red flags. Why should the OP do this?

Do you understand the difference between "The OP isnt required to provide this" and "Nobody could ever find out"?

If the OP is not being required to disclose this right now, I would say dont do it. Since you have such a hard on for reading and promote it such, I would now like to invite you to go back and look over the thread 😉 I never said he had to disclose anything. But if he is asked, as in the story from the resident earlier in which he was asked (but anecdotes are entirely without value, right? 🙄) lying about it would be a terrible idea regardless of your own presumably thoroughly educated opinion on whether or not such information would ever come to light. The point is, this is all case-by-case as LizzyM mentioned earlier. The generalizations, idealized opinions, and drummed up pre-med advice here is why I am using the word "ironic" to reply to the posts containing the word "pretentious". Come now... do you know what the word means? We have a bunch of pre-meds doling out advice on technical standards. The medical students here are not talking in black and whites, right or wrongs, or even absolutes. I, personally, have only been posting various renditions of "let's not get ahead of ourselves". If that smacks of something you don't like or pokes a finger in some idealized hole you personally have..... sorry bro but your invitations to re-read and banter on definitions really only demonstrate to me that I have been over your head up to this point 👍

 

[Palindr0me]

You guys have way too much time on your hands... 🙄

 

[mmmcdowe]

Refer to your Avatar .

On topic though mmmcdowe, disclosing paranoid schizophreni when there is no need to (per his current state and your guidelines) would do nothing but raise red flags. Why should the OP do this?

The OP has to be honest with himself for one in terms of ability, but otherwise I don't think that he or she should necessarily have to if it isn't a requirement. It is just the disclosure of ability that I am mostly concerned about.

 

[HM3]

OP: I believe this was asked on the psychiatrist part of this forum. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=667107&highlight=schizophrenic

Although they tended to think not, there was a mention of radiologist who had schizophrenia.

Your major hurdle will be at the licensing step, you can conceal the schizophrenia legally up to that point, but I believe you would have to disclose a mental illness such as schizophrenia. If the above report is true, then yes it would be possible to be licensed as a physician. I imagine this is highly dependent on your ability to control it.

Legally he can concel his schizophrenia until the day he dies. If speaking of licensure, AZ is the only state asking about any Mental Illness that have been treated. The other states ask if an illness impairs the applicant's capability as a physician. That being said, the American Disability Act protects him from being discriminated and AZ could not legally reject him on these grounds.

 

[HM3]

Do you understand the difference between "The OP isnt required to provide this" and "Nobody could ever find out"?

If the OP is not being required to disclose this right now, I would say dont do it. Since you have such a hard on for reading and promote it such, I would now like to invite you to go back and look over the thread 😉 I never said he had to disclose anything. But if he is asked, as in the story from the resident earlier in which he was asked (but anecdotes are entirely without value, right? 🙄) lying about it would be a terrible idea regardless of your own presumably thoroughly educated opinion on whether or not such information would ever come to light. The point is, this is all case-by-case as LizzyM mentioned earlier. The generalizations, idealized opinions, and drummed up pre-med advice here is why I am using the word "ironic" to reply to the posts containing the word "pretentious". Come now... do you know what the word means? We have a bunch of pre-meds doling out advice on technical standards. The medical students here are not talking in black and whites, right or wrongs, or even absolutes. I, personally, have only been posting various renditions of "let's not get ahead of ourselves". If that smacks of something you don't like or pokes a finger in some idealized hole you personally have..... sorry bro but your invitations to re-read and banter on definitions really only demonstrate to me that I have been over your head up to this point 👍

Bravo. Pee Wee Herman: Thy name is you.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Bravo. Pee Wee Herman: Thy name is you.

*Facepalm* okie dokie kiddo

 

[Yoseph101]

This is ironic....

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/101/781/Y0UJC.png

 

[45408]

Who would find out? And how?

Probably the lawyer who is filing a lawsuit against you at some point in your career and looks under every rock for information about you, and when they realize you've been lying to the medical board about a psychiatric diagnosis, you're up a creek.

It's easy to judge people. But realistically, no one should disclose this sort of thing - and I'm sure thousands do not. Also, if one were to be "black-balled", it would certainly be preceded with litigation.

You would be the one being litigated for lying to the medical board.

Well for one thing, they're completely different. One - federal law allows background checks for. The other, federal law protects the right for nondisclosure. See the difference? PT Confidentiality wasn't gone over yet in school?

Federal law does not protect you when you lie on a question that asks "Do you have any conditions that may limit your ability to safely practice medicine?"

 

[45408]

Legally he can concel his schizophrenia until the day he dies. If speaking of licensure, AZ is the only state asking about any Mental Illness that have been treated. The other states ask if an illness impairs the applicant's capability as a physician. That being said, the American Disability Act protects him from being discriminated and AZ could not legally reject him on these grounds.

That's a blanket statement that has numerous exceptions to it, this situation potentially being one of them, so you're quoting a platitude that is not helpful. The ADA does not prevent all discrimination. You still have to be able to safely perform your job description in order to be hired. Quadriplegics cannot become deep sea divers or neurosurgeons. A well-controlled paranoid schizophrenic may be allowed to become a physician, but the state medical board may require periodic evaluation to ensure patient safety.

Patient safety is paramount, and certain mental illnesses can cause someone to become completely psychotic and dangerous. If there's minimal/no risk of that, then you should be granted a license. If not, then the ADA is not going to "protect" you from that kind of "discrimination."

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Probably the lawyer who is filing a lawsuit against you at some point in your career and looks under every rock for information about you, and when they realize you've been lying to the medical board about a psychiatric diagnosis, you're up a creek.


You would be the one being litigated for lying to the medical board.


Federal law does not protect you when you lie on a question that asks "Do you have any conditions that may limit your ability to safely practice medicine?"

If someone has their disease under control and feels that it would not limit their ability to safely practice medicine, that wouldn't be a lie. The situation would turn into a huge ethical issue if the law got involved. Is it really necessary to tell someone everything about yourself, even if you don't believe it will negatively hurt your ability to practice medicine? Do doctor's not have the right to privacy?

 

[45408]

If someone has their disease under control and feels that it would not limit their ability to safely practice medicine, that wouldn't be a lie. The situation would turn into a huge ethical issue if the law got involved. Is it really necessary to tell someone everything about yourself, even if you don't believe it will negatively hurt your ability to practice medicine? Do doctor's not have the right to privacy?

Look into your state's requirements, but please realize that you are opening yourself up to a huge liability and a world of hurt if you claim that you don't have a condition that limits your ability to safely practice medicine, and then someone (your employer, the judge, your patient) subsequently disagrees with you and has grounds to do so. It is far better to disclose something and show that it is being dealt with appropriately than to hide it.

And no, you don't have the right to complete privacy. You have to disclose quite a few things about yourself so that a medical board can confidently license you to practice medicine. Anything that they feel will limit your ability to do so is fair game.

By the way, here's the EEOC's plain text explanation of the ADA as it applies to employment: http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/ada17.html

 

[mmmcdowe]

If someone has their disease under control and feels that it would not limit their ability to safely practice medicine, that wouldn't be a lie. The situation would turn into a huge ethical issue if the law got involved. Is it really necessary to tell someone everything about yourself, even if you don't believe it will negatively hurt your ability to practice medicine? Do doctor's not have the right to privacy?

Some people would say no. However, regardless of how YOU may feel about your ability to perform (in the same way a alcoholic surgeon may not see a problem), that isn't enough to justify your ability to practice medicine. I do believe that all physicians with problems that COULD potentially affect their ability to keep patients safe do have an ethical responsibility to make sure this is the case by using an objective outside measurement.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Probably the lawyer who is filing a lawsuit against you at some point in your career and looks under every rock for information about you, and when they realize you've been lying to the medical board about a psychiatric diagnosis, you're up a creek.


You would be the one being litigated for lying to the medical board.


Federal law does not protect you when you lie on a question that asks "Do you have any conditions that may limit your ability to safely practice medicine?"

no no no prowler. This is all pretty much exactly what I have been saying. You don't wanna be "pretentious" - the new and interesting definition employed by a couple of our local pre-meds. Apparently having zero experience on the subject and speaking on it anyways based on ideals makes everyone else pretentious now 🙂

 

[SpecterGT260]

Some people would say no. However, regardless of how YOU may feel about your ability to perform (in the same way a alcoholic surgeon may not see a problem), that isn't enough to justify your ability to practice medicine. I do believe that all physicians with problems that COULD potentially affect their ability to keep patients safe do have an ethical responsibility to make sure this is the case by using an objective outside measurement.

this is exactly the point. The major point of contention in this thread has been arguments framed around a perfect world. In a perfect world, a schizophrenic wouldn't go off his meds and shoot up a thea.... I mean lose his ability to practice medicine in a safe manner 😱 There are numerous precedents for such things, and one could say that it isnt fair for all sufferers to incur the penalty of the few who act inappropriately, but since when is life, american litigation, and policy fair?

IF we could ensure that a psychiatric patient could perform safely nobody would have a problem - but that is a huge "if". Things like the americans with disabilities act are "go-to" arguments by those who don't really have a lot of real world experience. All such legislation has loop holes, exceptions, and conditions upon which they apply. Just because diseases are protected doesn't mean that you are legally obligated to hire a quadriplegic for your starting line on the denver broncos (although quarterback seem to be OK )

Seriously though, to those of you who think a psych patient should have no issue gaining entry to medical school.... cool story bro 🙂 your opinion, as with mine, is completely irrelevant. My posts, and those of the other non-pre-meds have not been so much opinion as the ways these things tend to work out. Schizophrenia will not likely be a complete non-issue for this guy. Whatever your "feelings" are on that after the fact are a completely different discussion

pee-wee herman out 😀

 

[LizzyM]

I'd be more concerned with the fact they'd disclose this to you on an application. 🙄

Please. OP, if this is what you want to do and YOU feel you are capable- do it. Don't disclose it to your educators and employers. I would think this sort of thing is common sense.

They didn't disclose to me on their applications; I knew them socially while they were in medical school.

 

[HM3]

IF we could ensure that a psychiatric patient could perform safely nobody would have a problem - but that is a huge "if". Things like the americans with disabilities act are "go-to" arguments by those who don't really have a lot of real world experience. All such legislation has loop holes, exceptions, and conditions upon which they apply. Just because diseases are protected doesn't mean that you are legally obligated to hire a quadriplegic for your starting line on the denver broncos (although quarterback seem to be OK )

Seriously though, to those of you who think a psych patient should have no issue gaining entry to medical school.... cool story bro 🙂 your opinion, as with mine, is completely irrelevant. My posts, and those of the other non-pre-meds have not been so much opinion as the ways these things tend to work out. Schizophrenia will not likely be a complete non-issue for this guy. Whatever your "feelings" are on that after the fact are a completely different discussion

pee-wee herman out 😀

I know of several Physicians with psych issues, none with Schizophrenia. How many do you know with Schizophrenia?

In any case, their condition has yet to come up in licensing. 🙂. You talk a lot about subjectiveness, but everything you're basing your argument on is anecdotal. Moreover, it's laden on the premise that you're a Med Student, Lizzy is an Adcom, I am a pre-med (which I'm not btw); which is pretentious.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Look into your state's requirements, but please realize that you are opening yourself up to a huge liability and a world of hurt if you claim that you don't have a condition that limits your ability to safely practice medicine, and then someone (your employer, the judge, your patient) subsequently disagrees with you and has grounds to do so. It is far better to disclose something and show that it is being dealt with appropriately than to hide it.

And no, you don't have the right to complete privacy. You have to disclose quite a few things about yourself so that a medical board can confidently license you to practice medicine. Anything that they feel will limit your ability to do so is fair game.

By the way, here's the EEOC's plain text explanation of the ADA as it applies to employment: http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/ada17.html

Sound more like ethical issues rather than legal issues.

Some people would say no. However, regardless of how YOU may feel about your ability to perform (in the same way a alcoholic surgeon may not see a problem), that isn't enough to justify your ability to practice medicine. I do believe that all physicians with problems that COULD potentially affect their ability to keep patients safe do have an ethical responsibility to make sure this is the case by using an objective outside measurement.

As long as that alcoholic surgeon isn't drinking when he's with patients, I don't really see how he would pose any threat to the patient. Just like a schizophrenic doctor who is on his medications. In all honesty, I really don't think a mental disorder would stop a doctor from being able to practice medicine. Some people may feel uncomfortable being treated by someone with schizophrenia, but some people may also feel uncomfortable being treated by a female. You can't please everyone but as long as your abilities aren't diminished by something you have (whether it be schizophrenia, cross-dressing tendencies or a vagina [I don't believe this, but there are some who do]), I believe it's alright to not tell an employer you have something that could otherwise harm the patient. But that's just my opinion.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I know of several Physicians with psych issues, none with Schizophrenia. How many do you know with Schizophrenia?

In any case, their condition has yet to come up in licensing. 🙂. You talk a lot about subjectiveness, but everything you're basing your argument on is anecdotal. Moreover, it's laden on the premise that you're a Med Student, Lizzy is an Adcom, I am a pre-med (which I'm not btw); which is pretentious.

That isn't what pretentious means....

I love that your argument now hinges on the basis of "neener neener I don't believe you". You are speshul 🙂

 

[HM3]

That isn't what pretentious means....

I love that your argument now hinges on the basis of "neener neener I don't believe you". You are speshul 🙂

Pretentious : Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

Secondly, there is nothing to "believe" , your argument throughtout this thread has been fundamentally flawed- if there is in fact one. You're contributions to this thread have been at best irrelevant, and more likely of trolling nature.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Pretentious : Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

Secondly, there is nothing to "believe" , your argument throughtout this thread has been fundamentally flawed- if there is in fact one. You're contributions to this thread have been at best irrelevant, and more likely of trolling nature.

precisely kiddo 👍😉 your argument hinges on the mistrust of me being a med student, and lizzy being an adcom, and on the apparent falsehood of you being pre-med.



so in all honesty, saying I am a med student, while actually being so, but not being trusted by you is not pretentious. However denying so about ones self, as done below.... well....

I know of several Physicians with psych issues, none with Schizophrenia. How many do you know with Schizophrenia?

In any case, their condition has yet to come up in licensing. 🙂. You talk a lot about subjectiveness, but everything you're basing your argument on is anecdotal. Moreover, it's laden on the premise that you're a Med Student, Lizzy is an Adcom, I am a pre-med (which I'm not btw); which is pretentious.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10814800&postcount=2

I am an AA male and I will be applying to DO schools for the 2012 cycle. I really want to get into NYCOM. There are a few DO schools that I know of who make it part of admission objectives to enroll URM (Touro, NYCOM, OSU), I'm sure there's others.

That being said the number of AA in DO schools is substantially lower than MD. I'm opt to think it's because MD schools are more established and have more programs utilizing the enrollment of URMs.

I do not know any AA DO's, so please don't be discouraged and open up the ranks. I would think that being an URM in Osteopathic Medicine would only increase your chances of acceptance. Just let your accomplishments do the talking and forget about the color of your skin. (And the same for judging others as well)

we are currently in the 2012 application cycle.... so... yeah, you could maybe invest in a good dictionary broseph 🙂

to be honest, while looking for this gem, it was really well hidden in among your own troll posts. Frankly I think I only saw 1 that was an actual contribution to the thread at hand. Good on you, kiddo. Keep up the good work

 

[HM3]

That's a blanket statement that has numerous exceptions to it, this situation potentially being one of them, so you're quoting a platitude that is not helpful.

Patient safety is paramount, and certain mental illnesses can cause someone to become completely psychotic and dangerous. If there's minimal/no risk of that, then you should be granted a license. If not, then the ADA is not going to "protect" you from that kind of "discrimination."

It's not a blanket statement based on the OP's report that him and his Physician believe he is capable. No one is arguing that some people can not perform well, patient safety, blah blah ..which are the blanket statements you are using.

 

[HM3]

precisely kiddo 👍😉 your argument hinges on the mistrust of me being a med student, and lizzy being an adcom, and on the apparent falsehood of you being pre-med.



so in all honesty, saying I am a med student, while actually being so, but not being trusted by you is not pretentious. However denying so about ones self, as done below.... well....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10814800&postcount=2

we are currently in the 2012 application cycle.... so... yeah, you could maybe invest in a good dictionary broseph 🙂

to be honest, while looking for this gem, it was really well hidden in among your own troll posts. Frankly I think I only saw 1 that was an actual contribution to the thread at hand. Good on you, kiddo. Keep up the good work

I applied last cycle, but good work detective. 🙄. Furthermore, I don't mistrust you because you're a med student. I just think you're an idiot.

 

[SpecterGT260]

and again, I refuse to hold your hand through this thread. If the points I have made are lost on you there really isn't much to be done here.
1) psychiatric issues are not non-issues. One can be a physician, but your sage-ish wisdom of "hide it, yo! nobuddy gunn' find out!" is simply poor advice 😉
2) the notion that "nobody should be held back because of an illlness" is naive and idealistic. It happens in the real world - the one grownups play in. If it is somehow "pretentious" to say so (trying to use your working definition of the word.....) I am sorry - doesn't make it not true.
3) I dont have a 3... but I feel like lists that stop at 2 are dumb 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

I applied last cycle, but good work detective. 🙄. Furthermore, I don't mistrust you because you're a med student. I just think you're an idiot.

so the argument I made previously is rejected on the premise that I am not a confirmed med student in your eyes, and your trust in me is not related to being a med student (even though you have brought that up twice now) but rather because you think that *I* am the idiot here.....

smashing.

so you applied in the 2011 cycle (I can get you a calendar to match your dictionary) and got in... which (although we are down to the wire) would make you either still pre-med or an MS1 for all of 1 days 🙄

yep, i'm the idiot

 

[HM3]

so the argument I made previously is rejected on the premise that I am not a confirmed med student in your eyes, and your trust in me is not related to being a med student (even though you have brought that up twice now) but rather because you think that *I* am the idiot here.....

smashing.

so you applied in the 2011 cycle (I can get you a calendar to match your dictionary) and got in... which (although we are down to the wire) would make you either still pre-med or an MS1 for all of 1 days 🙄

yep, i'm the idiot

We're going in circles Pee Wee. I'm not sure why I'm falling for this.

 

[SpecterGT260]

That's racist


but hey on a completely unrelated note, congrats on being able to shed your pre-med skin with a 3.2 👍

seriously, your posting history is absurd. You argue more than I do but spin more wheels and get more "nowhere". It's almost impressive......

 

[HM3]

That's racist


but hey on a completely unrelated note, congrats on being able to shed your pre-med skin with a 3.2 👍

seriously, your posting history is absurd. You argue more than I do but spin more wheels and get more "nowhere". It's almost impressive......

No, you're racist.

And I'm glad you have Medical Student posted on there despite being an idiot.

You're calling my history and argument absurd? You posture up more on the internet than bodybuilding.com.

I know you are but what am I?

How does it feel

 

[SpecterGT260]

No, you're racist.

And I'm glad you have Medical Student posted on there despite being an idiot.

You're calling my history and argument absurd? You posture up more on the internet than bodybuilding.com.

I know you are but what am I?

How does it feel

I am really curious how you arrived at this post. I'm racist for having a high post count? You are a credit and a treasure to your school. Wherever that is. 👍

 

[HM3]

I am really curious how you arrived at this post. I'm racist for having a high post count? You are a credit and a treasure to your school. Wherever that is. 👍

You must be 4 feet tall.

 

[sliceofbread136]

When I applied for a Texas medical license I was asked if I had ever been diagnosed with a mental health illness. I have no idea how that question is legal to ask, but it was most certainly there. I would assume some other states have something similar. I have no idea if they will actually hold it against you, but something to think about/look into.

That sounds so unconstitutional.... like WTF

 

[Freesia88]

I am entering college this year and will be taking the generic Biology Pre-Med path. My biggest worry is that the the summer after my freshman year of high school I was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia along with the fact that in 7th grade I was diagnosed with a severe case of Panic Disorder with Agoraphobia. My psychiatrist is amazed with my progress. I finished my junior year of high school with a full load + online classes with a 3.3 GPA plus was starting to socialize. My senior year I took the hardest classes I could, participated in after school activities and had a 3.75 GPA while also dealing with an unknown stomach condition that made me drop from 160 pounds (I am 5'10") to 130 pounds within two months. Yet I still kept thinking to myself "I could do better, I could do more. I want to challenge myself more, I want a 4.0 GPA, not 3.75." I also was fully reintegrated socially. I had (and still have) a successful relationship of the female variety, have several close friends, and did all the normal (legal) things a high school student does. I've became practically symptom free other than the odd depression bout here and there and the odd 2 second long hallucination a few times a month. Decreasing the dosage of meds have proven successful with no increase of symptoms. The only thing of "concern" is that I still get quite a few panic attacks but I have learned to be productive during them and not let them get in the way of what I am doing. Even when I was working sorting cherries this summer I managed to handle the stress of stomach flu, dropping from 130 pounds to 118 within a week, standing all day with 12-16 hour work days every day and risking hospitalization without an increase of symptoms (which is another story all together, sadly I had to quit the job within 2 weeks due to health concerns and the fact that I was experiencing microsleep while driving). And yes, I am gaining back the weight I lost and recovering just fine.

I realize that medical school and being a doctor is most likely incredibly more stressful than anything I have ever experienced. I also realize that I can be a pretty big risk when it comes to treating patients as there will always be concerns of whether or not I am fit to practice. I know even the fact that I have no history of violence, suicidal behavior, and have never been admitted to a psychiatric hospital/ward won't matter much. I plan to use college as a time to stress test myself to get a better idea if I could actually handle medical school.

If things come out just fine and I actually have the ability to get admitted into a medical school, I am assuming my mental health history is probably something I want to keep quiet about, even if it is one of my biggest motivators to do as much as I can with my life and for pursuing medicine.

Am I really making the right decision and could the risks (for my patients) outweigh the benefits even if I prove to be a capable doctor. There is always that risk that I might break down and do something that would hurt a patient.
I have talked to my psychiatrist about entering medical school and he just says "You seem to be completely capable, even maybe more so than many of the people I know."

I'm really unsure if what I would do with my life besides medicine. Many people in my family practice(d) medicine (whether as a doctor, a nurse, or something else) and I have always wanted to pursue it. I'm one of the few people that greatly enjoy going to the doctor and I am known to frequently take people to their appointments just so I can sit there and watch the process at work. If it wasn't for my phone being broken at the time I would have probably asked a nurse if they could record my upper endoscopy. 😀 I kept asking the nurses "What is that you are sticking in my IV? What is the purpose of that? How do you like your job? How does that work, what exactly is it doing with my body?" and was just generally curious about everything.

I guess I could sum every up by asking:
Could I be a capable doctor that dealt with (living) patients daily?

IMHO ( and I am not an expert), yes. You most definitely, could be a capable doctor that dealt with (living) patients daily.

You sound like a decent person who truly appreciates the field of medicne and not through rose tinted glasses of idealism.

You sound motivated to put in the necessary work and not expect any slack cut for you becasue of your disability.

Your doctor, who I would imagine is the expert on your case, seems to think you are capable. (Possible LOR and shadowng opportunity... right there by the way)

Furthermore, and most important to me, you seem aware of your limitations and of the fact that your condition might make you a liability as evidenced by your question about risk vs benefits vis-a-vis the patients, who ultimately are a very significant if not the most significant part of the equation.

It is certainly within your rights to pursue a career in medicine. Just as it is within the rights of others to question your ability to (you, after all ,are questioning your own ability to - not necessarily a bad thing).

I say be honest. In your appilication, speak about your disability if it is a factor in your decision to pursue medicine. If you come across questions which explicitly ask if you have any conditions which might prevent you from being an effective student, be honest about that as well. After all, if you say no and get admitted, things are not going to look so good if by some odd twist of fate, you have issues while admitted. In this case, you speak the truth and if you do have issues, it is in your file and the school might be willing to cooperate with you.

Some schools might not like you, some might. Who is to say? You will never know if you don't give it a go.

When the time comes for residency, if the fact that you successfully completed medical school and rotations and all that fun stuff does not count in your favor, I don't know what could. I say, continue with the honesty even at this point.

Some programs may like you others may not. Who knows? You will most definitely never know if you don't give it a go.

I would hate to be a hospital which took you on without knowing and you had an episode while on call. If you go the full disclosure route, and they take you on, they know what they are getting into. It is only fair, right? And if they do not, keep trying. I find it hard to believe that every single residency program in the US will turn you down. If you want it bad enough and go for it, I am optimistic about your chances of success.

And if it ever came out to your patients, some might not like you and refuse to see you. That is their prerogative. Some patients might not like women doctors. Is it discrmination? Yes. Do we force them to see a female doctor anyway? I think not (correct me if I am wrong)

I wish I could say " ....there can be miiiiiiiracles, if you beliiiiieve...." 😀 but things usually do not work like that. You will face many obstacles, perhaps more for you than for others. However, you choose to deal with them is up to you but I am sure that prevaricating is not the best path.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You must be 4 feet tall.

once again I am not following your logic. I am now apparently racist for posting more than a body builder and I am short for calling you a treasure. Hey man, if that makes sense to you then keep on keepin on 👍 None of that logically follows. I suppose I could employ the "(I'm not btw)" that a sage-like master used earlier when called a pre-med.... but no, that would be "pretentious" .

You got me. I am actually 4' 2.5". You know its bad when I gotta count the half inches 😳 And I made up this persona and LizzyM's in order to lend credibility to my otherwise fictional arguments. Cant sneak one past you! No siree! Seriously.... what makes you think that someone like you could make someone like me feel at all insecure about myself over the interwebs? to be blunt - this has nothing to do with your race, which I only just found out during that post search, but everything to do with the validity (or lack there of) of the content of your posts. Swing away, slugger. If it makes you feel better to call me an idiot, by all means. I'm gunna be a doctor, after all - which means I like to help people 😉 so help me help you, MH3, Help me help you

 

[45408]

It's not a blanket statement based on the OP's report that him and his Physician believe he is capable.

Unless his psychiatrist is the one that performs evaluations for the state medical board, then it's not the evaluation that counts.

No one is arguing that some people can not perform well, patient safety, blah blah ..which are the blanket statements you are using.

That's not a blanket statement.

Sound more like ethical issues rather than legal issues.

Lying can be both.

 

[HM3]

once again I am not following your logic. I am now apparently racist for posting more than a body builder and I am short for calling you a treasure. Hey man, if that makes sense to you then keep on keepin on 👍 None of that logically follows. I suppose I could employ the "(I'm not btw)" that a sage-like master used earlier when called a pre-med.... but no, that would be "pretentious" .

You got me. I am actually 4' 2.5". You know its bad when I gotta count the half inches 😳 And I made up this persona and LizzyM's in order to lend credibility to my otherwise fictional arguments. Cant sneak one past you! No siree! Seriously.... what makes you think that someone like you could make someone like me feel at all insecure about myself over the interwebs? to be blunt - this has nothing to do with your race, which I only just found out during that post search, but everything to do with the validity (or lack there of) of the content of your posts. Swing away, slugger. If it makes you feel better to call me an idiot, by all means. I'm gunna be a doctor, after all - which means I like to help people 😉 so help me help you, MH3, Help me help you

Ah eff it. In all your posts on this thread, you have been defensive and attacked me in the context of what I faulted you for. There is a early 90s star who would use this tactic in an annoyingly funny catch-phrase "I know you are but what am I?" His name is Pee Wee Herman. That post above in which I called you a racist was in response to you calling me a racist- hence the "I know you are but what am I?" You are four feet tall because it went over your head, ironically like the 4 feet tall comment.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Wow, you're slow arent you? Here's a hint, why do I call you peewee?

because you're an angry pre-med with a chip on his shoulder, approximately 4 working brain cells, and a cultural inclination towards confrontation? Being from california... that is 😛 Otherwise I have no idea. "peewee" isnt really an insult that is common in my crowds, mostly because we stopped that around highschool. I gotta say though, I am again further entertained that you want to equate lack of exposure to idiocy and then call me slow

 

[HM3]

 

[sliceofbread136]

That's racist


but hey on a completely unrelated note, congrats on being able to shed your pre-med skin with a 3.2 👍

seriously, your posting history is absurd. You argue more than I do but spin more wheels and get more "nowhere". It's almost impressive......

Didn't you have to apply more than once? Maybe you shouldn't be throwing stones.

 

[HM3]

because you're an angry pre-med with a chip on his shoulder, approximately 4 working brain cells, and a cultural inclination towards confrontation? Being from california... that is 😛 Otherwise I have no idea. "peewee" isnt really an insult that is common in my crowds, mostly because we stopped that around highschool. I gotta say though, I am again further entertained that you want to equate lack of exposure to idiocy and then call me slow

Please, continue. This is actually getting funny. But I edited that post and gave you the answer, because you'll never get it.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Didn't you have to apply more than once? Maybe you shouldn't be throwing stones.

I absolutely did. This whole issue is about HM3 rejecting a series of discussion points because he doesn't trust the experience of those sharing them and wholly rejects anecdote in favor of a series of idealistic beliefs based on nothing other than musing.

The major issue is that he is rejecting every point with a series of points that are themselves completely irrelevant or invalid. I'm still trying to decide if he is just straight up trolling or actually believes his own logical progressions here.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Ah eff it. In all your posts on this thread, you have been defensive and attacked me in the context of what I faulted you for. There is a early 90s star who would use this tactic in an annoyingly funny catch-phrase "I know you are but what am I?" His name is Pee Wee Herman. That post above in which I called you a racist was in response to you calling me a racist- hence the "I know you are but what am I?" You are four feet tall because it went over your head, ironically like the 4 feet tall comment.

I wasnt defensive towards you. You came in swinging as you have done in nearly every thread. IIRC we were talking about the idea that "nobody could find out", and "nobody should ever have an illness be used to exclude them from something" - two points, one of which made by you that have not been further addressed, instead you opted into straight douchebaggary.... ironically like you claim in the beginning of this post

So, in other news, you take the ability for people to follow your obscure references in complete disregard for other interpretations as a metric for intelligence... again, smashing 🙄

 

[HM3]

I wasnt defensive towards you. You came in swinging as you have done in nearly every thread. IIRC we were talking about the idea that "nobody could find out", and "nobody should ever have an illness be used to exclude them from something" - two points, one of which made by you that have not been further addressed, instead you opted into straight douchebaggary.... ironically like you claim in the beginning of this post

So, in other news, you take the ability for people to follow your obscure references in complete disregard for other interpretations as a metric for intelligence... again, smashing 🙄

I don't address this because you're using quotes of something I did not even write. Also, you have long since resorted to personal insults and insecure defenses which makes debating anything with you unreasonable. 🙂

I digress though, let's stop this. We're losing cred here.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I don't address this because you're using quotes of something I did not even write. Also, you have long since resorted to personal insults and insecure defenses which makes debating anything with you unreasonable. 🙂

where did I insult you? The GPA thing? that came well after you broke the TOS 👍

but lets do a quick review here:
here is where we started

Not disclosing when asked to may be a good way to get yourself black-balled.

This is a true statement. It may not be fair by whatever definition you employ, but it can and does happen.

Who would find out? And how?

So you're open to disclosing everything about one's life to a possible employer even if it doesn't affect your ability to perform your job? That is absolutely crazy. What if I was a cross-dresser? As long as it doesn't affect my ability to do my work, my employer doesn't need to know that I enjoy wearing women's clothing, but if I did tell my employer, my chances of getting or keeping that job are pretty slim.

and here is where things went south. This guy mis-interpreted what I meant. Apparently, for him, saying "it can happen" is equivalent to "I think this should happen and I also hate puppies"

How about ALS?

in response to the notion that nobody should ever have an illness held against them

People with ALS have been a legendary baseball players and a revolutionary astrophysicist. Physician isn't that much of a stretch. There is strength in letting people with chronic illness become doctors. Medical education shouldn't be denied to anyone qualified in my opinion.

the super smart-one who thought that because a physicist is in a wheel char and an MLB player had his carreer cut short tha ALS patients would make good doctors.

You have no point, because you're comparing criminal history to medical history.

And then there is you.... I had very little to say to you. In fact, that is the way it looks across most of this thread and many others which you troll. You come in and harp on irrelevant technicalities. The comparison of medical history to criminal history is invalid. The comparison of LYING about that history in either case in perfectly valid. If you are ignorant of this, that is your deal, bucko 👍 but that is where this thread came and went.

the part between you and me only dealt with someone finding out whether or not you may get found out if you hide this. The rest was with our buddy adrian up there. So fine, im an idiot because you felt every post was related to you then 🙄 or whatever.
That is why whether or not you said the above is completely irrelevant. I never said you said all of it (in fact... I even pointed out the one that wasnt you). However, your half-baked retorts were directed at my posts which were addressed to those posts and the people who made them. So now your position is to reject the entire discussion because "i didnt say that"? Doesn't mean you didnt enter that part of the discussion. If you lack the ability to track the conversation, then at least we have identified the problem here 👍

You did say more than once that nobody would find out if you were to hide a psych diagnosis. "hiding" as I am using it (and as it should have been understood) is to intentionally mislead someone who explicitly asks. If he wasnt asked then no big deal. I wouldnt say anything. But as a resident mentioned earlier, it may come up. But wait, he isnt really a resident, im not really a med student, and lizzy isnt really an adcom... that was the body of your argument, right? Seriously, kid.... I'm glad you can use this show to pat yourself on the back.... although honestly I'd find it embarrassing, but that would require the capacity to understand why it is embarrassing

 

[HM3]

K..I literally don't have time for this. I'm not going to read your post. Chalk it up as a victory as you will. I'm wrong, you're right. I'm afraid of your posts. I'm backing down because I have no argument.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Sound more like ethical issues rather than legal issues.

As long as that alcoholic surgeon isn't drinking when he's with patients, I don't really see how he would pose any threat to the patient. Just like a schizophrenic doctor who is on his medications. In all honesty, I really don't think a mental disorder would stop a doctor from being able to practice medicine. Some people may feel uncomfortable being treated by someone with schizophrenia, but some people may also feel uncomfortable being treated by a female. You can't please everyone but as long as your abilities aren't diminished by something you have (whether it be schizophrenia, cross-dressing tendencies or a vagina [I don't believe this, but there are some who do]), I believe it's alright to not tell an employer you have something that could otherwise harm the patient. But that's just my opinion.

I agree with this, but my point was how do you know an alcohlic surgeon isn't risking intoxication near or during operations? If you knew an alcoholic surgeon, would you feel comfortable going to him if thing to show that he wasn't intoxicated was his word? My point is that patients must be protected from the risk that a physician's perceptions of his ability to perform are not in line with reality. This is why additional controls and safeguards are necessary.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I agree with this, but my point was how do you know an alcohlic surgeon isn't risking intoxication near or during operations? If you knew an alcoholic surgeon, would you feel comfortable going to him if thing to show that he wasn't intoxicated was his word? My point is that patients must be protected from the risk that a physician's perceptions of his ability to perform are not in line with reality. This is why additional controls and safeguards are necessary.

I would agree with it as well - but again that is being really idealistic and that isnt how the real world works. I am aware of a physician who had board sanctions put against her after a DUI. She then had her suspension extended after someone simply saw her with a drink in hand. Not even drunk, but just word of mouth among the community "did you see that Dr. ______ is drinking again?" Like I said - it isnt fair, but it happens. IMO it is best to try to stay a step ahead of these things rather than just hope that it will all turn out fine and someone will also give you a cookie 👍