School Performance and Primary Care

[mechanictodr]

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How much does medical school performance matter if you plan to do primary care? Should I still try to excel in everything or will that even matter at all?

Most likely should have asked this in the med student forum, but this one is more active.

 

[Cheshyre]

How much does school performance matter if you plan to do primary care? Should I still try to excel in everything or will that even matter at all?

Most likely should have asked this in the med student forum, but this one is more active.

You might as well do the best you can. Just because primary care is easier to get into doesn't mean you don't need to know as much as possible. A specialist sees the same stuff all day. A PCP needs to deal with the typical cold but be able to pick up the rare patient with something serious while it's early.

On top of this, you don't really know if you're going to go into primary care. None of us really knows until rotations, or perhaps, match day. Do as well as you can to keep your options open.

 

[mechanictodr]

You might as well do the best you can. Just because primary care is easier to get into doesn't mean you don't need to know as much as possible. A specialist sees the same stuff all day. A PCP needs to deal with the typical cold but be able to pick up the rare patient with something serious while it's early.

On top of this, you don't really know if you're going to go into primary care. None of us really knows until rotations, or perhaps, match day. Do as well as you can to keep your options open.

Some of us have the option to sign contracts to get school paid for that require entering primary care. So if I choose to do that route I imagine I could kick back a little since I wouldn't be competing for something competitive.

 

[Westonski]

Some of us have the option to sign contracts to get school paid for that require entering primary care. So if I choose to do that route I imagine I could kick back a little since I wouldn't be competing for something competitive.

You're right, but don't discount what Cheshyre said. You're going to medical school to learn the trade, so work hard to become the best physician you can be. I know residency is where we truly learn how to be an effective physician, but if you slack off in school, you probably won't reach your full potential. It's not all about competition in the end.

 

[mechanictodr]

You're right, but don't discount what Cheshyre said. You're going to medical school to learn the trade, so work hard to become the best physician you can be. I know residency is where we truly learn how to be an effective physician, but if you slack off in school, you probably won't reach your full potential. It's not all about competition in the end.

Agreed. Full potential to me means closing the office at 5 and being home for dinner by 5:30. 🙂

 

[Cheshyre]

Some of us have the option to sign contracts to get school paid for that require entering primary care. So if I choose to do that route I imagine I could kick back a little since I wouldn't be competing for something competitive.

Haha. Don't worry about it then. You'll quickly figure out how much you want to study in medical school. If you don't study enough, you start to feel guilty.

Full disclosure - there's... more time to slack off in medical school than you think.

 

[Westonski]

Agreed. Full potential to me means closing the office at 5 and being home for dinner by 5:30. 🙂

Hahaha that sounds good to me. But in primary care, that might be a tough goal to reach. My dad's a general internist and after 25 years I'm not sure if he's EVER made it home by 5:30! 🙁

My family likes to eat together every night, so as a kid, I got used to eating dinner around 8:30.

 

[mechanictodr]

Hahaha that sounds good to me. But in primary care, that might be a tough goal to reach. My dad's a general internist and after 25 years I'm not sure if he's EVER made it home by 5:30! 🙁

My family likes to eat together every night, so as a kid, I got used to eating dinner around 8:30.

I hope to book less patients or work a shift type of job like hospitalist. I'd rather have a schedule than a pager.

Where I work the internists do 3 12's each week which isn't too bad (but there are night shifts for the young guys and like you said dinner would be closer to 8:30 on work nights if you did days). The attached clinic takes it's last office visit at 4:15 and then locks the doors. So the only option is the ER next door. It's a sweat deal for both groups, decent pay and actual human hours.

 

[spicedmanna]

You might as well do the best you can. Just because primary care is easier to get into doesn't mean you don't need to know as much as possible. A specialist sees the same stuff all day. A PCP needs to deal with the typical cold but be able to pick up the rare patient with something serious while it's early.

Well said. I completely agree. I think it's sad that students think that primary care = "I don't have to do as well." What kind of logic is that? Yes, because there are more spots, there is a larger range of performance that will land you a residency somewhere in primary care, but this doesn't mean you shouldn't try to learn as much as possible, so that you can be the best doctor you can. Personally, I think a primary care doctor has to know a little about a lot. To do that really well, you have to be well-educated and bright. He has to be excellent at not only managing common things (which is actually not so simple sometimes!), but, as Cheshyre said, be excellent at detecting serious problems and knowing when to enlist a specialists help. I've seen so many problems that may have been cut off at the pass by good primary care (some of which resulted in permanent disability or death). Primary care doctors are the front line in care and the better of a doctor you are, the better you will be able to manage your patient's care. Primary care doctors are supposed to the be ring leader; they have to organize and compile all the information from the specialists, be the point of contact with all that information, put the pieces of the puzzle together, and keep the big picture. That's a huge challenge and should not be taken lightly. ****, I know I'd want my primary care doctor to be the schiznit, not some goof who barely made it through medical school and just skated through residency.

Of course, I am biased. I'm going into primary care.

On top of this, you don't really know if you're going to go into primary care. None of us really knows until rotations, or perhaps, match day. Do as well as you can to keep your options open.

Keep your options open. Most often you will not be sure until you get exposed to the breadth of clinical medicine and get some experience under your belt.

 

[spicedmanna]

Some of us have the option to sign contracts to get school paid for that require entering primary care. So if I choose to do that route I imagine I could kick back a little since I wouldn't be competing for something competitive.

Medical school is not a cake walk. Unless you are one of those rare students that can pick up things with minimal effort, you will be busting your butt quite a bit, whether you plan on going into a competitive residency or not. It's not for the faint of heart. There's so much work and so much expected that at some point in your training, you will realize that your reference point will have changed and that you will become accustomed to the craziness, even expecting it, or feeling strange when the pressure is not there. You will find some kind of balance between performance and kicking back, one that is acceptable to you and the school. However, if you don't want to work, then you will have a hard time. This doesn't mean you can't kick back every once in a while, but it if you do it too much, you may end up screwing yourself. It's a fine line. At some point during your first year, you will realize that everyone around you is brilliant and it will take some effort to just do average. If you aren't careful, you could end up decompensating very quickly. You don't have to be a gunner and be ultra-competitive for primary care, but be careful about kicking back too much. Minimal effort in medical school still means a great deal of effort.

 

[Slane]

The stress of wondering after every exam whether or not you scraped by with that 69.5% will be enough to make you study. Do the best you can, and I guarantee you that you'll still have plenty of time to be "normal". As per the OP's original question, do you really need to be top of your class, straight A's, SGA president, and blah blah blah to get into an FM residency? Of course not, but it still looks good when you start applying.

 

[NurWollen]

The stress of wondering after every exam whether or not you scraped by with that 69.5% will be enough to make you study. Do the best you can, and I guarantee you that you'll still have plenty of time to be "normal". As per the OP's original question, do you really need to be top of your class, straight A's, SGA president, and blah blah blah to get into an FM residency? Of course not, but it still looks good when you start applying.

Yeah, and imagine the residencies you could get. IM is not competitive. IM at Mayo, I imagine, is. And think of the opportunities for greatness you get after a residency at Mayo, or MGH, or UCSF, and the like. They are the best for a reason.

 

[SurgeonVirgin]

only read the OPost.... In most med schools (all I'm sure) you'll be compared to your classmates grade-wise. If you put less effort than your best you'd be surprised how fast you fail out. The tests aren't designed for everyone to get 100%.

In short if you put half as much effort expect half the grade compared to your class; 50% is failing at most schools.

 

[marke]

Med school is hard as it is.. unless you are a super genius, most of us have to work hard just to pass..
anyways...
i take the attitude that i am no longer learning to get good grade but instead learning for my patient!
grades may matter in the short run, but in the long run it's the knowledge that's going to matter...
this might sound BS to you, but aren't learning how to treat pt the real reason we are in med school?

 

[cliquesh]

And think of the opportunities for greatness

That made me laugh.

 

[cliquesh]

Med school is hard as it is.. unless you are a super genius, most of us have to work hard just to pass..

That is not true at all.

 

[Slane]

That is not true at all.

It's the volume that makes it hard, not the material itself. It's really easy to get behind, and once you're behind, it's damn near impossible to catch back up.

 

[MedIsInMyBlood]

Even though getting A primary care residency spot is apparently not too hard to do OP, you may end up wanting to get a SPECIFIC primary care residency spot (maybe to be close to your spouse or your family or something). And maybe they'll be others really going for that spot too? So then you're medical school grades will come into play as they compare you to those other students.

 

[Everglide]

I'll just throw it out there - there is a huge difference in effort and hours between passing at 70-80% and scoring in the 90th percentile.

You won't have to absolutely kill yourself for the 90th percentile if you are for going for any old primary care slot.

 

[mechanictodr]

I understand... greatness and all that. I have no desire for it. I just want to pass and do my job. 99.99% of physicians don't go to Mayo for residency... and they still get paid. I just want to work. Guess I'll just have to see how much I need to do for that 72% when the time comes. I know most people pass and there has to be a fair amount who do it with C's. I don't want to bust my balls every night like the neurotic jerk who wants neurosurgery.

Also, doing this for patients??? Please, save it for the interview.

 

[Cheshyre]

Also, doing this for patients??? Please, save it for the interview.

There are some of us (admittedly few) who actually do give a damn about making a difference instead of having a BMW in the garage.

 

[Druggernaut]

I hope to book less patients or work a shift type of job like hospitalist. I'd rather have a schedule than a pager.

If you dislike having a pager, you may want to reconsider primary care. You may close up the clinic at 4:30, but when your patient needs to be admitted through the ER at 3 AM, nobody's going to care when you take your last appointment.

And really? "Save it for the interview"? I can't begin to imagine going down this road just for the money or for ego. What's your reason?

 

[Cheshyre]

I can't begin to imagine going down this road just for the money or for ego.

There's plenty of these people, actually. Some are great doctors too. Money is their first priority, but, they also want to run a very successful business.

Of course, there are docs who simply want money and suck. I'm inclined to believe that this is the majority but it's not like I've done any sort of proper study.
I'm sure that there are docs out there who want to do good but also suck.

 

[spicedmanna]

Guess I'll just have to see how much I need to do for that 72% when the time comes.

That's the wisest thing you said so far.

I know most people pass and there has to be a fair amount who do it with C's. I don't want to bust my balls every night like the neurotic jerk who wants neurosurgery.

Nobody said you have to be a nonstop workhorse. You don't have to "bust your balls every night," but don't underestimate the amount of work it takes. That can be fatal to your career. The bottom line is that medical school takes a significant amount of commitment and dedication. Most students will experience an adjustment period where they reset their standards and work ethic to a higher level.

You say you want to be that 9 to 5 person. Cool. But it takes a good amount of sweat to make it there. Luxury doesn't come without a price. Also, don't forget it's not just making it through classes, but you have to make sure you pass all your boards and you have to pass your rotations. After that, assuming you match where you want, you are going to be an indentured servant as an intern. If you come in with an attitude of just getting by, you can still make it through and I know people who do, but don't expect to be unscathed by the process.

Also, doing this for patients??? Please, save it for the interview.

That's kind of a bold statement for someone who hasn't even started medical school. On what basis do you make that statement?

I seriously don't know why people would go into clinical medicine, let alone primary care, if they don't, at some point along the line, think of the patients that are in their care. For one thing, it's too difficult of a path, if that isn't part of the reward. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get what you deserve, wanting to take it easy, and profit from your effort. Just don't forget that medicine should be about the care you provide your patients, even though it might not seem like it when confronted with all the crap out there in the business of medicine these days.

I'm not saying you have to be Gandhi-esque, but you have to care about your patients, especially if you want to go into primary care. And if you care about your patients, you will do what you can do to learn and be the most knowledge doctor you can. Admittedly, medical school is a small portion of what allows you to provide good care to your patients, but it's a start. If you devote the time to develop good habits now, it will make life much easier when the **** hits the fan when residency starts. It's an attitude.

You don't have to be a martyr at all, and I recommend that you don't, but don't come in thinking you can just get by. That's not the best attitude to start with. Mediocrity can cause patients to suffer or die. Don't be that primary care doc that chronically mismanages his patients. It's more common than you think. There's nothing wrong with wanting to take it easy, as long as you don't take it too far and realize that nothing replaces the work you dedicate to your continual education.

Good luck in your process.

 

[Helen Wheels]

I'm not in med school yet but I plan to work hard and perform to my own personal best. I doubt I will be at the top of my class, I am definitely not a gunner (too old for that! ) but I can't understand why you would want to do less than your best.

 

[JokerSeven]

My philosophy coming in is to always try to be the absolute best, because the future patients whom I will care for deserve that.

 

[cliquesh]

There are some of us (admittedly few) who actually do give a damn about making a difference instead of having a BMW in the garage.

I'm totally going to get a M5 one day.

 

[NurWollen]

That made me laugh.

Yeah, I guess it did sound a little...uh...peppy. I was in good mood, I had just gotten a A on an O-Chem test.

 

[koan]

I'm totally going to get a M5 one day.

Ha, you crack me up cliquesh.

 

[Cheshyre]

I'm totally going to get a M5 one day.

I wanted a sweet car for about a month. Then, I got a scrape on my bumper (I wasn't even in the car - let's not pull the whole Asian driver stereotype here) and was told that it'd be $325, cash, for putty and a repaint.

So, I'm sticking with Honda. I don't even want to know what repairs on a nice car cost.

Plus, I can't go around looking like the usual Asian physician. My parents aren't in medicine at all, but I'd still get that weird "my God.. I've grown up and become just like my Dad" feeling. Once I do that it's just a slippery slope. Next thing you know, I'm Amy Chua. Can't do it.

I feel dirty just thinking about it.

 

[spicedmanna]

So, I'm sticking with Honda. I don't even want to know what repairs on a nice car cost.

Eh, nothing wrong with that, if that's what makes you happy.

Plus, I can't go around looking like the usual Asian physician. My parents aren't in medicine at all, but I'd still get that weird "my God.. I've grown up and become just like my Dad" feeling. Once I do that it's just a slippery slope. Next thing you know, I'm Amy Chua. Can't do it.

I feel dirty just thinking about it.

Well, the way I see it, either way, you are reacting to the way you grew up. If you buy a really nice car, then it's, "oh, I'm like my dad now," and if you go the opposite direction, then it's, "oh, I'm trying not be the stereotype." Either way, you are not free to address what it is you truly want. It's not a slippery slope, as long as you stay clear about what is important to you. Of course, I could be totally projecting here.

 

[Dharma]

This is America now. Sad.

Work hard for the sake of working hard and to master the material. Life is not all about the final result, whether that be grades, money, success, etc. Of course, results matter, but some (should I say most) have become so fixated on them that they lose sight of the importance of the process itself- the part that truly matters most.

Be as good as you can be regardless of what direction you choose to go, and how "competitive" you chose to be.

As mentioned above primary care doctors should be masters of their trade- keen observers and competent diagnosticians. At the front line, they play one of the most crucial roles in health care.

Work hard.

 

[Cheshyre]

Either way, you are not free to address what it is you truly want. It's not a slippery slope, as long as you stay clear about what is important to you. Of course, I could be totally projecting here.

That's the most horrifying thing I've ever read.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I understand... greatness and all that. I have no desire for it. I just want to pass and do my job. 99.99% of physicians don't go to Mayo for residency... and they still get paid. I just want to work. Guess I'll just have to see how much I need to do for that 72% when the time comes. I know most people pass and there has to be a fair amount who do it with C's. I don't want to bust my balls every night like the neurotic jerk who wants neurosurgery.

Also, doing this for patients??? Please, save it for the interview.

Just from your previous, bright and cheery post history I know you are probably not going to do it for "the greater good". So being from the NW, if you want a solid UW or OHSU residency position even as primary care I think you should be aiming for something higher than "Cs" on everything and a "210" on your USMLE.

If for no other reason than we'll both be in the same graduating DO class and most likely I'll be going primary care. Regardless I'll be doing more than the bare minimum to do all I can to secure one of those two places (if I don't find somewhere I like between now and 2015).

 

[TornadoChaser]

When you are done with Medical School and residency and are a practicing primary care physician, let me know where you're working so I'm sure to never visit you when I'm ill.

 

[heroes31]

When you are done with Medical School and residency and are a practicing primary care physician, let me know where you're working so I'm sure to never visit you when I'm ill.

+1, Would you take your elderly mother to a physician who just barely managed to pass medical school and was too lazy to actually work hard and try to master his profession. It seems to me, as an outside observer, that you have no passion for the field of medicine. Why are you even bothering to go to medical school? Perhaps you should consider going into a field that you are more passionate about and that you actually want to work hard at to master. This is not just another profession to make money. People's lives are in your hands and if you give them bad advice or the wrong treatment because your were only trying to learn 65% of the material you can really do people great harm. If you just go through the motions to try and pass Im afraid you will either fail out of medical school or worse kill someone.

 

[Slane]

To those of you that are not medical students yet, your outlook on what kind of grades you want and expect to get will change pretty drastically during your first semester. It's all good and well to say you're going to kill yourself to pull A's and "master the profession" for the better of your patients, but the reality is that all but the most hardcore eventually resign to taking some lower grades to maintain their sanity. A few C's isn't going to kill you, or your future patients, by any means--you're just only going to make things harder on yourself if you set the bar low and only shoot for the bare minimum 2.0GPA with straight C's.

 

[Cheshyre]

I'm going to go ahead and break up the circlejerk here.

There are, in fact, people who do it for the money and do a good job. If your goal is to the run the best business you possibly can, providing solid care is one path to that end. Also, you can't always say that a person who's has a primary goal of money doesn't have a close second goal of providing proper patient care. We can't tell from the OPs post what kind of physician he's going to be or even what kind of person he is so we can't make generalizations about their future. The OP asks if it's possible to take it easy through medical school. In my opinion, it's not a prudent position, but worse things have been said. You will meet people in medical school who are truly s***** and absolutely don't care about patient welfare. I'm okay with the OP's question.

Anyway, why make a statement like "When you are done with Medical School and residency and are a practicing primary care physician, let me know where you're working so I'm sure to never visit you when I'm ill" (I'm using this post as an example - it's not just this poster I'm referring to)? There's nothing constructive about it. There's a difference between giving advice and acting like a street-corner evangelist. The first one implies that you actually care about strengthening the profession. The second makes all of us who are in it for non-financial reasons sound like assh😀les.

There'll be a time when you meet somebody totally deserving of vitriol. This isn't it. If you came to this thread, saw the other comments, and proceeded to add similarly derogatory and non-constructive points to the thread, you're nothing but a bully.

Yes, this comes from somebody who absolutely isn't doing it "for the money."

EDIT: Well said, Slane.

 

[heroes31]

Im sorry but I completely agree with Tornadochaser. I would not want to go to a physician who's primary goal is to make money and their "close" second is to help others. Perhaps those that are in medical school have become jaded by the rigors of school and need a fresh input from those not yet so cynical. Also it's one thing for a current medical student to say that sometimes you try hard and get a c but that its not the end of the world. It's another thing entirely if before you even begin school to say your aiming for mediocrity so that you can coast through school. I don't care if you think saying I want to master the profession is naive or whatever. But when I think about how people's lives will be greatly affected by how I treat them, your damn right I'm going to do my best to master my profession. It not about being an evangelical preacher, its about recognizing that medicine is a noble field and that it's your duty as a physician to do your best for the sake of your future patients. That just how I feel, take it or leave it.

 

[Cheshyre]

Im sorry but I completely agree with Tornadochaser.

You're missing the point, which was don't act like a dick.

EDIT:

To clarify, I'm here to be the best I can as well. I got into medicine with my eyes always focused on clinical work. It's not naive to want to do that. It is, however, naive to think that liking money and high-quality patient care are mutually exclusive. It's even worse, and honestly, detrimental, to spend your time criticizing everybody who doesn't perfectly follow the white-knight/healer archetype. Seriously - when was the last time you heard a street-corner preacher's psychotic babble and thought to yourself, "Wow, that guy is so inspiring. I want to be a proper Christian." Same deal.

Save it for the times that really matter. If you're at a clinic and you see a fellow med student cutting serious corners so that they can go home early, that's the time to get angry.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

You're missing the point, which was don't act like a dick.

I don't know...

What would you call going into medical school planning on doing the bare minimum because you "know" it isn't going to make a difference in whether you match into an undesirable specialty.

Also in reference to "how to act", take a look at the OPs post history. With just going on my memory I can't remember a positive post from the guy.

Edit: You edited before I submitted but after I hit reply. I completely agree with your edit, but you can't help but acknowledge that he probably has the wrong attitude before he has even begun.

 

[Cheshyre]

... but you can't help but acknowledge that he probably has the wrong attitude before he has even begun.

No, I fully agree with you there - see my very first post (the first reply in the thread). You should go in swinging. But, it's not that big of a deal - my guess is that he'll slack off a for a little bit, fail an exam and work harder. It's hard to explain to people who haven't been to medical school, but honestly, you don't really make conscious efforts to work harder or less so in medical school. You just work because there's so much stuff every day. You're not going to get through everything, but you have no idea what's on the exam. The amount we cover in a week at Western (and at all medical schools) is more than for a midterm in undergrad (assuming 4 exams per semester, referring to a hard science course). As time goes on, you might figure out ways to slack off but frankly, you're just hurting yourself. Everybody, I'm told, has to cram like crazy for the boards. If you never learned the material the first time, it's just going to be that much harder later.

Really, I'm just stepping into the thread because I feel that its devolved into less of a "I don't agree with the OP because of reasons x, y, and z" and more of a "look at how much less holy the OP is than us! BEAT HIM!!" sort of deal.

Also, in regards as to how to act - yeah, the OP has a history of being abrasive. IMO though, unless somebody makes a personal attack on you, there's no real reason to stoop down yourself. There are times when the gloves have to come off, but this wasn't one of them.

 

[Westonski]

Really, I'm just stepping into the thread because I feel that its devolved into less of a "I don't agree with the OP because of reasons x, y, and z" and more of a "look at how much less holy the OP is than us! BEAT HIM!!" sort of deal.

SDN in a nutshell.

 

[TornadoChaser]

I wasn't trying to be a dick, I was saying that I wouldn't want my PCP to have the kind of attitude the OP has displayed on this thread. I wasn't referring to anything about money. If he is motivated to be a doctor for money, fine. But to say that he's going to do just enough to get by, and then make a remark that would imply that he doesn't really care about his patients, that makes me want to avoid being his patient. I'm sure if he showed any potential patient this thread, they would call a different doctor, and he'd be out of business.

This isn't really the profession to be half-a**ed in. If my gardener does a half-a**ed job, it's not that big of a deal (though I'd still fire him). But if my doctor does a half-a**ed job, it could shorten my life.

 

[spicedmanna]

I hope I didn't come off as "more holy than thou." That wasn't my intention. If I have contributed to a sanctimonious attitude on this thread, I apologize.

Look, I have two and a half months left of medical school, and I'm pretty much over it. If anyone should be jaded about the medical school process, it should be me, since I've been through, well, most of it. I admit that I am pretty ordinary, by my own standards, and I didn't at all gun my way through medical school (but I'm not too shabby either). I definitely tried to balance learning, school performance, and enjoying my life as much as the process would allow, anyway. There were plenty of times where I traded the possibility of doing better in class so that I could go out and have a good time with my buddies, teach martial arts, or hang out with family. It kept my sanity through difficult times. Those are important, too, not just school work. I think it's equally as bad to care too much about school and let yourself go. There's a balance that needs to be found. And it's personal.

In a program as rigorous as medical school, you have to make your personal life a priority as much as your education. That's how you stay focused and happy. Life simply doesn't stop just because you are in medical school. You just learn how to triage things better and recognize the trade offs that sometimes need to be made. You aren't necessarily going to cause your future patients to suffer just because you didn't perform well in some pre-clinical classes. That's ridiculous, of course. Grades don't matter like that.

What bothers me the most is not so much the OP's original question, but some of his responses, which I found a bit troubling. I am concerned mostly with an attitude that I see from his posts here. It's one thing to have as goals, making money, wanting to have a good life, and taking it easy, which are all perfectly fine and healthy, but it is quite another to come into medical school with a baseline lackadaisical attitude toward medical education and to devalue, jaded or not, the point of medicine, which to care for patients. If you feel that way, why attend medical school in the first place? There are a lot easier ways to make money and live a good, prosperous life. Whether you like it or not, medicine IS about caring for patients. The point of medical school is that it is a step along the way so that you can become a competent doctor and can use your skills to provide the best care you PERSONALLY can for your patients. That should be one of your primary goals, not just lip service so that you can get into medical school. If it's not, then I imagine that it will be difficult to be happy with your chosen profession.

I certainly had times of feeling very disgruntled with the process and have flaunted a jaded attitude, sometimes publicly. It might be egotistical for me to say this, but I think I earned that right, having plowed through the trenches with the best of them. It's not necessary right, but it's just the way it is, because of how challenging the process is. Few come through the gauntlet unscathed. But to start out that way, even before stepping foot into medical school...

Basically, I agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a good life, while in medical school and beyond. I encourage that. We should not deny ourselves all the great things life has to offer, especially the very ordinary things that everyone enjoys. We have a responsibility to our patients, to do the best we can for them. But you also have a responsibility to yourself to keep yourself happy and healthy.

However, you should not come in wanting to avoid the work and doing the bare minimum necessary to get by, because you think you can, secondary to the idea that your chosen specialty is easier to match into. This attitude can get you into trouble pretty fast, academically and on the wards. Say what you want, but medical school is not easy. Lots of people try really hard and only end up doing average. And that's okay, because they tried and will keep trying. If you aren't careful, you could end up shooting yourself in the foot. I've seen people fail out because they thought they could just surf all day and put in the bare minimum. Your maximum may only get you average, okay? And if you display this attitude on the wards, you will not be well-liked, that's for sure. I know one third year at my core site that kept skipping and ducking out as soon as he could do it, consistently, sometimes right after morning report, leaving all of us who did give a hoot to clean up the mess. Guess how much we liked him? Wanna bet he is going to continue this as he goes further on in his career, assuming he makes it past third year? Is this the kind of doctor you want to work with? The kind you want to be your doctor?

Grades certainly don't determine the kind of doctor you are going to be. However, your attitude does. Learn that good medicine isn't like working at a cash register. You have lives in your hands and lots of people who depend on you to do your best in the interest of their health or their ability to deliver competent care. If you aren't going to be there for them, a lot of people are going to suffer, including you. Even if you aren't the brightest bulb out there, merely competent, you can still provide excellent care for your patients. Not because you know more necessary, or can do more, but because you care about your patients. That's the only thing they can't teach you in medical school.

I'm not saying you can't make it through medical school half-assed. You can. And people do. I've seen it. That's fine. I don't care. It's your life. If that's acceptable to you, so what? I even don't care if you are all about living an easy life and getting the big bucks. I don't care if you don't like seeing your patients or even being there. Do me and your future patients a favor, however: keep that to yourself and don't carry that attitude with you when you are actively caring for your patients. Your job is to advocate for their health to the best of your ability. If you can do that, what you do on your own time or how you think is not my business.

Skate through school if you want. It's your life. Live it how you want. Medical school is just a small, albeit, important step along the way. And life isn't all about medical school, anyway. If you want to do the bare minimum, fine. I'm just saying that it isn't as easy as you think. Don't get yourself into academic trouble on account of the lack of trying. Also, don't treat your patients that way. Better to develop good habits now and keep them. And learn that medicine IS about caring for patients and if do care about your patients, it will be easier for you and everyone else. If nothing else, being less of an ass means you might get sued less.

 

[Cheshyre]

Whoops. Looks like I stirred up a hornet's nest. No, I wasn't referring to you Spiced. I mean, how could I disagree with Jack Nicholson?

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I like the OP. Simple guy. OP's responses are direct, truthful, and usually no more than 4 sentences. Praise Mechanictodr!!! He good, we should be friend! Yes!

 

[mechanictodr]

I'm not saying you can't make it through medical school half-assed. You can. And people do. I've seen it. That's fine. I don't care. It's your life. If that's acceptable to you, so what? I even don't care if you are all about living an easy life and getting the big bucks. I don't care if you don't like seeing your patients or even being there. Do me and your future patients a favor, however: keep that to yourself and don't carry that attitude with you when you are actively caring for your patients. Your job is to advocate for their health to the best of your ability. If you can do that, what you do on your own time or how you think is not my business.

Skate through school if you want. It's your life. Live it how you want. Medical school is just a small, albeit, important step along the way. And life isn't all about medical school, anyway. If you want to do the bare minimum, fine. I'm just saying that it isn't as easy as you think. Don't get yourself into academic trouble on account of the lack of trying. Also, don't treat your patients that way. Better to develop good habits now and keep them. And learn that medicine IS about caring for patients and if do care about your patients, it will be easier for you and everyone else. If nothing else, being less of an ass means you might get sued less.

This was all I wanted to know. Haha. Seriously though, I know it won't be a "cake walk" for anyone. I just don't want to do any all night study for tests or have my nose in a book for hours on end every single day. I want to know that there is time to be human. Some of you guys take this stuff way too serious. This is just another job in the field of medical services so I don't understand all the fuss about not "TAKING IT TO THE EXTREEEEEEME!!!!!" like some of you seem to expect.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[ShyRem]

You can have a life and go to med school. It is possible. But you should also be aware that this is MED SCHOOL. It takes work and plenty of it. Some folks are better at figuring out how to work smarter faster; others take longer and study all the time. Which will you be? who knows.

However, when I read your initial post I, too, thought you were trying to figure out how to do as little as possible for the sake of doing as little as possible. A good PCP is invaluable, and it's stinkin' hard work. The smarter you are, the more you know, the better and happier you will generally be. And a good PCP has to know about a lot of stuff. So study hard when you study.

I have also always encouraged folks to keep a balanced life in medical school. It's important. My family was about the only thing that kept me sane through med school.

And a shoutout to spicedmanna - as usual, you give good advice. 🙂 Good luck in the match.

I do hope my disjointed sentences above aren't too difficult to follow. I'm post-call and a bit weary today. Gotta flip back to days for tomorrow though, so I'm trying not to go to sleep too much today.

 

[mechanictodr]

So it's possible to have a life and do well at med school. You all said wait and see until I get into school and start taking tests. So I did. Maybe the first round of tests was just a warm up, but with 2 hours of study each night after class and 4 each day on the weekend I was able to pass all of my tests. (even better than average on all but one)

Sorry all you haters. It can even be done with less effort. LOLz

We'll see how round two goes, but I have some serious Xbox and beerz waiting.😎