School Psychology reputable program advice.

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OMGBakedBeans

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Hi all!

I am currently working as a School Psych with my Ed.S. I also have an M.Ed Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

I know I want to go back to get my Ph.D., I really would like to work/do research on ADHD, ASD, and/or SLD. In particular, I would like the opportunity to do academic research as well as private practice.

I am very interested in attempting to go the neuropsychology route, however, my interests really best align with School Psychology rather than Clinical Psychology. I am aware of the APPIC process and the necessity to complete a fellowship. I am looking for advice about School Psychology programs that are reputable and would help set me up for my future career goals.

Any advice regarding programs or trying for the neuropsych specialty would be greatly appreciated!

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School Psychology and Neuropsychology are very different worlds. When it is all said and done, where do you see yourself being employed?
Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure, but I think I would like to work in academia and/or private practice. I may also enjoy working in a hospital setting but I don't have any experience in that area. I'm sure that doesn't help very much, but I know long term I do not want to work in a school setting.
 
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Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure, but I think I would like to work in academia and/or private practice. I may also enjoy working in a hospital setting but I don't have any experience in that area. I'm sure that doesn't help very much, but I know long term I do not want to work in a school setting.

If this is the case, you should only be looking at clinical psych programs. Your job opportunities in the areas that you mention would be very limited with a school psych degree.
 
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Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure, but I think I would like to work in academia and/or private practice. I may also enjoy working in a hospital setting but I don't have any experience in that area. I'm sure that doesn't help very much, but I know long term I do not want to work in a school setting.

Good question! You could work in all 3 of those settings with a background in school psychology. With the PhD in school psychology, you are eligible to take the EPPP and gain licensure which will be helpful if you plan to do private practice or if you want to work in a hospital setting. You mention an interest in ASD, so finding a school psychology program that includes the core sequence for behavior analysis may be beneficial! That way you are eligible for your BCBA in addition to a PhD. If you want to go the academia route with a school psych background, you will likely find that you fit best in school psychology or applied behavior analysis academic positions. Best of luck!!
 
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Good question! You could work in all 3 of those settings with a background in school psychology. With the PhD in school psychology, you are eligible to take the EPPP and gain licensure which will be helpful if you plan to do private practice or if you want to work in a hospital setting. You mention an interest in ASD, so finding a school psychology program that includes the core sequence for behavior analysis may be beneficial! That way you are eligible for your BCBA in addition to a PhD. If you want to go the academia route with a school psych background, you will likely find that you fit best in school psychology or applied behavior analysis academic positions. Best of luck!!

I think it would depend on the nature of the private practice work that the OP is planning on doing. If it's in the neuropsych realm, as one of OPs stated interests, then practicing that with a school psych background, is grounds for board complaints. It would greatly depend on the type of work day in and day out that the OP wants to do. Either way, especially if they do not want to work in a school, the clinical psych degree opens many more career doors.
 
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University of Texas’ school psych program had a unique relationship with peds neuropsych and UTs clinical psych program.

University of Miami has a peds, but not school, program that may align with your interests. But it’s in Florida, so that sucks.
 
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Combined programs might be an option. They seem disproportionately represented in the northeast, which isn’t good or bad...but a geographic quirk.

Just to get it out of the way, please avoid any thought of “school neuropsychology”. It’s wholly insufficient training that is universally viewed by neuropsychologists as worse than vanity boarding; i’m not sure if it still being pushed down in Texas, but that is where it was created out of thin air. I don’t want to sidetrack this thread, but a search on the forum will produce some threads from a few years back about it.

School Psychology training and neuropsychology are very very different in regard to training, scope, licensure, etc.

ps. This is different than what PsyDr is talking about.
 
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Just to get it out of the way, please avoid any thought of “school neuropsychology”. It’s wholly insufficient training that is universally viewed by neuropsychologists as worse than vanity boarding; i’m not sure if it still being pushed down in Texas, but that is where it was created out of thin air. I don’t want to sidetrack this thread, but a search on the forum will produce some threads from a few years back about it.

We have a "School Neuropsychologist" in town here. His practice specializes in qEEG and neurofeedback. Now that the local diploma mill closed, I wonder where he will get prac students.
 
Combined programs might be an option. They seem disproportionately represented in the northeast, which isn’t good or bad...but a geographic quirk.

Just to get it out of the way, please avoid any thought of “school neuropsychology”. It’s wholly insufficient training that is universally viewed by neuropsychologists as worse than vanity boarding; i’m not sure if it still being pushed down in Texas, but that is where it was created out of thin air. I don’t want to sidetrack this thread, but a search on the forum will produce some threads from a few years back about it.

School Psychology training and neuropsychology are very very different in regard to training, scope, licensure, etc.

ps. This is different than what PsyDr is talking about.

Yes, I know that odd training is not credible at all! I know of some school psych PhDs who managed to get into the neuropsychology specialty, but unfortunately, I have been unable to forage any line of communication with them. I know it would be more challenging to get an APPIC internship that has a focus on neuropsychology in school psychology, as well as a fellowship; but my understanding is that it is possible.

If you don't mind me asking, would you mind explaining "school psychology training and neuropsychology are very very different in regard to training, scope, licensure etc". I don't mean to sound crass, purely just wondering, as this is the second instance in this thread someone has said that. My understanding of both fields leads me to believe that given enough training in neuropsychology, combining the two areas could offer very important and useful information. But of course, I could be misinformed. Thank you for your input.
 
University of Texas’ school psych program had a unique relationship with peds neuropsych and UTs clinical psych program.

University of Miami has a peds, but not school, program that may align with your interests. But it’s in Florida, so that sucks.


Thanks for this and for the humor! As someone who went to the University of Tennessee, I share your sentiment about Florida!
 
Hello! I want to point out that this...
I know I want to go back to get my Ph.D., I really would like to work/do research on ADHD, ASD, and/or SLD.
...doesn't really gel with this:
I am very interested in attempting to go the neuropsychology route,

As far as clinical practice/diagnosis is concerned, evaluating for ASD and ADHD does not usually entail neuropsychological testing (diagnosis ADHD does not require any formal "testing" at all). Diagnosing SLD als does not usually involve neuropsych testing. Further, assessing for SLD- at least in my jurisdiction- falls within the scope of practice of a licensed "School Psycholologist"- which is a masters level credential, and is typically done at or through the school, funded by the school. Insurance is unlikely to reimburse a "psychologist" (which is a doctoral level credential) to do SLD testing. (Sorry if you know all that already:))

It can get confusing with all the different credentials, degrees, and training programs. This is particularly true when it comes to "school psychology." You can get a doctorate in a school psychology program which prepares you for licensure as a "psychologist," though most people (again, in my jurisdiction) who are in the role of "school psychologist" have terminal masters level training. As a licensed psychologist (which is a redundant term in my state, as there is no such thing as an "unlicensed psychologist), I have practiced psychology in schools, but I am not a school psychologist! You'd think we'd figure out a way to be more precise with our terms.

As to your original question, there are several routes you could take:

-university based, APA accredited clinical psych Ph.D. program, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. This would ould offer you the most flexibility for the researcher/clinician hybrid work you want to do. It is also likely to be the cheapest route with graduate funding (up to full tuition waivers and stipends for RA/TA being the norm). It's also the most competitive route. (yes- there are also a handful of uni-based Psy.D. programs that operate in similar fashion).

-university based, APA accredited school psych or counseling programs, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. In many cases such a program would offer you similar, if not identical, training to a clinical psych. program, with the same amount of flexibility. Assure that the program leads to eligibility for licensure as a psychologist (doctoral level) in any states you could even imagine wanting to work in. Other than some confusion from the uniformed as to what the degrees mean or what you you are qualified to do, the CORRECT program will offer you appropriate training/licensure to work as a researcher and clinician in your areas of interest. Full funding may be less likely than with a university based Ph.D. program, but not necessarily so.

-PsyD from an APA accredited free standing professional school (FSPS). These are usually VERY expensive. Quality of training can very greatly. Research can be legitimate option at some, but not all. Where research is available, it is usually not in the context of a mentor model where you work in the lab of, basically, a professional academic researcher. Be very cautious if you go this route. If it involves taking out big loans to pay for it all, it may not be worth it. There are predatory programs of this type where the goal is to separate you from your money.

Whatever the path, it does not sound like specialization in neuropsych (which often comes later on internship/post-doc) is not really necessary/relevant to meet your goals. As someone else has mentioned, getting a BCBA along the way is a big plus (though not necessary) and seems to be more likely in a school-psychology focused training program.

I work (and have researched) with ASD, ADHD, and SLD with a Clinical Psych Ph.D. I currently do almost exclusively assessment, and am not a neuropsychologist.
 
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Instead of getting hung up on the term "neuropsych" what is your in interest? If it is ADHD and ASD in school settings, then school psych is a fit? If you want to assess dementia and TBI, perhaps school psych isn't for you,
 
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Hello! I want to point out that this...

...doesn't really gel with this:


As far as clinical practice/diagnosis is concerned, evaluating for ASD and ADHD does not usually entail neuropsychological testing (diagnosis ADHD does not require any formal "testing" at all). Diagnosing SLD als does not usually involve neuropsych testing. Further, assessing for SLD- at least in my jurisdiction- falls within the scope of practice of a licensed "School Psycholologist"- which is a masters level credential, and is typically done at or through the school, funded by the school. Insurance is unlikely to reimburse a "psychologist" (which is a doctoral level credential) to do SLD testing. (Sorry if you know all that already:))

It can get confusing with all the different credentials, degrees, and training programs. This is particularly true when it comes to "school psychology." You can get a doctorate in a school psychology program which prepares you for licensure as a "psychologist," though most people (again, in my jurisdiction) who are in the role of "school psychologist" have terminal masters level training. As a licensed psychologist (which is a redundant term in my state, as there is no such thing as an "unlicensed psychologist), I have practiced psychology in schools, but I am not a school psychologist! You'd think we'd figure out a way to be more precise with our terms.

As to your original question, there are several routes you could take:

-university based, APA accredited clinical psych Ph.D. program, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. This would ould offer you the most flexibility for the researcher/clinician hybrid work you want to do. It is also likely to be the cheapest route with graduate funding (up to full tuition waivers and stipends for RA/TA being the norm). It's also the most competitive route. (yes- there are also a handful of uni-based Psy.D. programs that operate in similar fashion).

-university based, APA accredited school psych or counseling programs, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. In many cases such a program would offer you similar, if not identical, training to a clinical psych. program, with the same amount of flexibility. Assure that the program leads to eligibility for licensure as a psychologist (doctoral level) in any states you could even imagine wanting to work in. Other than some confusion from the uniformed as to what the degrees mean or what you you are qualified to do, the CORRECT program will offer you appropriate training/licensure to work as a researcher and clinician in your areas of interest. Full funding may be less likely than with a university based Ph.D. program, but not necessarily so.

-PsyD from an APA accredited free standing professional school (FSPS). These are usually VERY expensive. Quality of training can very greatly. Research can be legitimate option at some, but not all. Where research is available, it is usually not in the context of a mentor model where you work in the lab of, basically, a professional academic researcher. Be very cautious if you go this route. If it involves taking out big loans to pay for it all, it may not be worth it. There are predatory programs of this type where the goal is to separate you from your money.

Whatever the path, it does not sound like specialization in neuropsych (which often comes later on internship/post-doc) is not really necessary/relevant to meet your goals. As someone else has mentioned, getting a BCBA along the way is a big plus (though not necessary) and seems to be more likely in a school-psychology focused training program.

I work (and have researched) with ASD, ADHD, and SLD with a Clinical Psych Ph.D. I currently do almost exclusively assessment, and am not a neuropsychologist.


Oh thank you for such a thoughtful post! This answers a lot of my questions/concerns. The reason I was initially lead to the direction of neuro, was because some research about SLD lead me to think our understanding of the disability could be improved with neuro. But now I have a better understanding of neuropsychology.
 
Hello! I want to point out that this...

...doesn't really gel with this:


As far as clinical practice/diagnosis is concerned, evaluating for ASD and ADHD does not usually entail neuropsychological testing (diagnosis ADHD does not require any formal "testing" at all). Diagnosing SLD als does not usually involve neuropsych testing. Further, assessing for SLD- at least in my jurisdiction- falls within the scope of practice of a licensed "School Psycholologist"- which is a masters level credential, and is typically done at or through the school, funded by the school. Insurance is unlikely to reimburse a "psychologist" (which is a doctoral level credential) to do SLD testing. (Sorry if you know all that already:))

It can get confusing with all the different credentials, degrees, and training programs. This is particularly true when it comes to "school psychology." You can get a doctorate in a school psychology program which prepares you for licensure as a "psychologist," though most people (again, in my jurisdiction) who are in the role of "school psychologist" have terminal masters level training. As a licensed psychologist (which is a redundant term in my state, as there is no such thing as an "unlicensed psychologist), I have practiced psychology in schools, but I am not a school psychologist! You'd think we'd figure out a way to be more precise with our terms.

As to your original question, there are several routes you could take:

-university based, APA accredited clinical psych Ph.D. program, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. This would ould offer you the most flexibility for the researcher/clinician hybrid work you want to do. It is also likely to be the cheapest route with graduate funding (up to full tuition waivers and stipends for RA/TA being the norm). It's also the most competitive route. (yes- there are also a handful of uni-based Psy.D. programs that operate in similar fashion).

-university based, APA accredited school psych or counseling programs, working in a lab with a mentor who's research focuses on your areas of interest. In many cases such a program would offer you similar, if not identical, training to a clinical psych. program, with the same amount of flexibility. Assure that the program leads to eligibility for licensure as a psychologist (doctoral level) in any states you could even imagine wanting to work in. Other than some confusion from the uniformed as to what the degrees mean or what you you are qualified to do, the CORRECT program will offer you appropriate training/licensure to work as a researcher and clinician in your areas of interest. Full funding may be less likely than with a university based Ph.D. program, but not necessarily so.

-PsyD from an APA accredited free standing professional school (FSPS). These are usually VERY expensive. Quality of training can very greatly. Research can be legitimate option at some, but not all. Where research is available, it is usually not in the context of a mentor model where you work in the lab of, basically, a professional academic researcher. Be very cautious if you go this route. If it involves taking out big loans to pay for it all, it may not be worth it. There are predatory programs of this type where the goal is to separate you from your money.

Whatever the path, it does not sound like specialization in neuropsych (which often comes later on internship/post-doc) is not really necessary/relevant to meet your goals. As someone else has mentioned, getting a BCBA along the way is a big plus (though not necessary) and seems to be more likely in a school-psychology focused training program.

I work (and have researched) with ASD, ADHD, and SLD with a Clinical Psych Ph.D. I currently do almost exclusively assessment, and am not a neuropsychologist.
I came across this thread and was wondering if anyone can explain the career and educational differences between behavior analysis and clinical psychology? I've heard of people pursuing just behavior analysis programs but I'm curious to what end? Are they all hoping to go to the FBI with that?
 
I came across this thread and was wondering if anyone can explain the career and educational differences between behavior analysis and clinical psychology? I've heard of people pursuing just behavior analysis programs but I'm curious to what end? Are they all hoping to go to the FBI with that?

We certainly have a few ABA experts here who could add much more than me, but briefly, behavior analysis is a system of techniques and approaches based on behaviorism for studying behavior and implementing behavior change. ABA specifically is often used in autism spectrum disorders (ASD).
 
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I came across this thread and was wondering if anyone can explain the career and educational differences between behavior analysis and clinical psychology? I've heard of people pursuing just behavior analysis programs but I'm curious to what end? Are they all hoping to go to the FBI with that?

The FBIs behavioral analysis unit weirdly does not have many psychologists. Seriously. The FBI usually recruits out of specific undergraduate institutions and law schools. Notice how I didn’t say anything about graduate school or medical school? Yup. 4 year degree, a few months of FBI training, a few years being assigned to some backwater field office in a rural location. Then you can apply to the BAU, along with every other young agent with a Netflix account. Of course they weed out every one with whatever that paraphillia is where people get aroused by witnessing physical violence. Or anyone that is dealing in fantasy land.
 
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The FBIs behavioral analysis unit weirdly does not have many psychologists. Seriously. The FBI usually recruits out of specific undergraduate institutions and law schools. Notice how I didn’t say anything about graduate school or medical school? Yup. 4 year degree, a few months of FBI training, a few years being assigned to some backwater field office in a rural location. Then you can apply to the BAU, along with every other young agent with a Netflix account. Of course they weed out every one with whatever that paraphillia is where people get aroused by witnessing physical violence. Or anyone that is dealing in fantasy land.

Easier nowadays, just screen out everyone who still thinks Trump won the election ;)
 
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Easier nowadays, just screen out everyone who still thinks Trump won the election ;)


You know that maxim, "Neurology is a guessing game to pass the time while waiting for the MRI."? The BAU is a guessing game that passes the time and creates a parallel construction while you wait for the ALPR profile and the ping data during the time and place of relevance. Don't even have to bother with warrants, the NSA, and it's all legal (e.g., People v Bushey ; Carpenter v USA).
 
I came across this thread and was wondering if anyone can explain the career and educational differences between behavior analysis and clinical psychology? I've heard of people pursuing just behavior analysis programs but I'm curious to what end? Are they all hoping to go to the FBI with that?
ABA Doctoral Programs are largely geared toward research and academia. At the research level, ABA looks to apply basic principles of learning to socially important behaviors and settings. While there may be some forensic related pursuits, I don't think it's the FBI/Profiler stuff you are talking about (for what it's worth, I believe I've read that a lot of that stuff is better left to actuarial tables than to "behavioral experts"). From a practitioner's standpoint, ABA is offer largely the domain of Board Certified Behavior Analysts (BCBA-D), most of whom are credentialed at the masters level. I am credentialed as BCBA at doctoral level (e.g., BCBA-D) but that is largely just a recognition of my degree and professional/publication history. It does not, alone, offer me any additional privileges (in my state, I am licensed as an ABA at the same level as a masters level BCBA). Autism treatment dominates insurance reimbursed ABA clinical work. Secondary to this, BCBAs often work in schools/special education settings, as well as adult residential programs (primarily with ID and ASD populations). I have also worked in geriatric and traumatic brain injury programs (neuro rehab and private school). There is very little overlap between the coursework in a an approved ABA program and and a standard clinical psych program.
 
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ABA Doctoral Programs are largely geared toward research and academia. At the research level, ABA looks to apply basic principles of learning to socially important behaviors and settings. While there may be some forensic related pursuits, I don't think it's the FBI/Profiler stuff you are talking about (for what it's worth, I believe I've read that a lot of that stuff is better left to actuarial tables than to "behavioral experts"). From a practitioner's standpoint, ABA is offer largely the domain of Board Certified Behavior Analysts (BCBA-D), most of whom are credentialed at the masters level. I am credentialed as BCBA at doctoral level (e.g., BCBA-D) but that is largely just a recognition of my degree and professional/publication history. It does not, alone, offer me any additional privileges (in my state, I am licensed as an ABA at the same level as a masters level BCBA). Autism treatment dominates insurance reimbursed ABA clinical work. Secondary to this, BCBAs often work in schools/special education settings, as well as adult residential programs (primarily with ID and ASD populations). I have also worked in geriatric and traumatic brain injury programs (neuro rehab and private school). There is very little overlap between the coursework in a an approved ABA program and and a standard clinical psych program.
So if someone is more interested in identifying learned social behaviors in a school setting, like thinking popularity is a reward system for misbehavior that students find funny, then "school behavior specialist" is the domain, whereas clinical psychology involves a lot more therapy-based approaches and academic research analyses of effective strategies and techniques for therapy? So really the truly clinical distinction, basically?

That was a very helpful explainer altogether. Thank you. I had a former supervisor who did a Psy.D. program and went to Quantico for FBI training but rejected their offer to stay in education with behavior analysis. That's how they ended up my supervisor and not working in that rural field office.
 
The FBIs behavioral analysis unit weirdly does not have many psychologists. Seriously. The FBI usually recruits out of specific undergraduate institutions and law schools. Notice how I didn’t say anything about graduate school or medical school? Yup. 4 year degree, a few months of FBI training, a few years being assigned to some backwater field office in a rural location. Then you can apply to the BAU, along with every other young agent with a Netflix account. Of course they weed out every one with whatever that paraphillia is where people get aroused by witnessing physical violence. Or anyone that is dealing in fantasy land.
I've read Mindhunter by John Douglas and apart from most of their profiling seeming like a lot of Sherlockian deductions about pattern behavior and creative thinking, my big takeaway is that a guy arrested twice who personally claims to have problems with authority was accepted into the FBI mostly on the back of physical performance in training thanks to athletics and military background. He bounced around in psychology but was no academic on his own until they partnered with Ann Burgess. It seems like most of the people who made it into his Behavior Analysis Unit when it first started were folks he knew and liked and trusted. So. The same old story as ever.
 
So if someone is more interested in identifying learned social behaviors in a school setting, like thinking popularity is a reward system for misbehavior that students find funny, then "school behavior specialist" is the domain, whereas clinical psychology involves a lot more therapy-based approaches and academic research analyses of effective strategies and techniques for therapy? So really the truly clinical distinction, basically?

That was a very helpful explainer altogether. Thank you. I had a former supervisor who did a Psy.D. program and went to Quantico for FBI training but rejected their offer to stay in education with behavior analysis. That's how they ended up my supervisor and not working in that rural field office.
Actually, if you are interested in identifying learned social behavior..., that's more of a social psychology (non applied) area of pursuit. If you are interested in designing interventions to reduce the future likelihood of problematic behaviors while increasing the future probability of more adaptive behaviors, that's more along the lines of ABA (or behaviorally oriented clinical, counseling, educational, school psych doctoral training). "School behavior specialist" is a very loose term, not directly associated with any specific level of training or credential. It can mean different things in different school districts.
 
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School Psychology and Neuropsychology are very different worlds. When it is all said and done, where do you see yourself being employed?

Since I am in both school psychology and neuropsychology, I can comment that they do not necessarily have to be in very different worlds depending on your sub-specialties and areas of interest.

A school psychologist who is primarily interested in program evaluation and promoting systems-wide mental health initiatives within the school setting? Yeah, probably very different from a neuropsychologist, especially one who specializes working with adults.

A school psychologist who is primarily interested in assessment of disabilities such as learning disabilities, autism, or AD/HD? Not that different from a pediatric neuropsychologist. There is more overlap there.
 
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Since I am in both school psychology and neuropsychology, I can comment that they do not necessarily have to be in very different worlds depending on your sub-specialties and areas of interest.

A school psychologist who is primarily interested in program evaluation and promoting systems-wide mental health initiatives within the school setting? Yeah, probably very different from a neuropsychologist, especially one who specializes working with adults.

A school psychologist who is primarily interested in assessment of disabilities such as learning disabilities, autism, or AD/HD? Not that different from a pediatric neuropsychologist. There is more overlap there.

The ADHD/LD and ASD evals are a small sliver of what many peds neuropsychologists are doing. Some may specialize, yes, but the breadth of training in a variety of peds neuro presentations (e.g., NF, Peds neuro-onc, genetic disorders, etc) would be a wide gap when comparing the usual training path of the two.
 
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