School Rankings

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ortho18

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Does anyone know if the schools are ranked? I'm trying to decide on which school is best for me, and I am lost and confused on which schools to choose. The schools I am particular unsure of are Columbia, Penn, and my state school. How do I decide which is the best to go to? Any help would be appreciated.

Members don't see this ad.
 
There are some very old rankings that are no longer applicable. They aren't ranked anymore due to the protest of the schools.

Post any questions you have about them, and I'm sure someone can help.
 
If you are looking for a school that is best for you, you shouldn't worry about the school's rank. Besides, while there are websites where dental schools are ranked, they are quite old (at least a decade older) and are very subjective.

You should really base your decision on the school's curriculum more than anything else ;):cool::)

Does anyone know if the schools are ranked? I'm trying to decide on which school is best for me, and I am lost and confused on which schools to choose. The schools I am particular unsure of are Columbia, Penn, and my state school. How do I decide which is the best to go to? Any help would be appreciated.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Does anyone know if the schools are ranked? I'm trying to decide on which school is best for me, and I am lost and confused on which schools to choose. The schools I am particular unsure of are Columbia, Penn, and my state school. How do I decide which is the best to go to? Any help would be appreciated.

Trying to find current rankings is like trying to divide by zero.

As the other poster said, try asking questions and we'll give an opinion. Which school did you feel most comfortable at?
 
all i know is that UCSF is #1 NIH funded in dental research. Does this mean they are #1 as far as research goes, probably. Does this mean they are #1 dental school. No. I don't think there's such a thing.

but still UCSF = :love: = Mecca for a future dental scientist.
 
I don't understand why dental schools aren't ranked anymore. I mean, if they can rank all the US medical schools including the DO programs, law schools, undergraduate, and graduate schools, why can't they rank dental schools? There's less than 60 dental school's to rank and even though all dental schools are different and have their own distinctions, the same can be said about med schools and etc.
 
It seems like this question pops up every other week. I guess I don't understand why a ranking should be an important factor in a decision?
 
I personally love the lack of rankings. They would've easily swayed me to pursue the "best" school I was applying to. Instead, I am going for what suits me best.

-Cyrus
 
I don't understand why dental schools aren't ranked anymore. I mean, if they can rank all the US medical schools including the DO programs, law schools, undergraduate, and graduate schools, why can't they rank dental schools? There's less than 60 dental school's to rank and even though all dental schools are different and have their own distinctions, the same can be said about med schools and etc.

Because there's no accurate or objective way to quantify what makes one school better than any other.

If your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it too?
 
I personally love the lack of rankings. They would've easily swayed me to pursue the "best" school I was applying to. Instead, I am going for what suits me best.

-Cyrus

I'm with you 100%. All rankings do is unfairly force you to consider someone else's opinion more highly than your own.
 
Does anyone know if the schools are ranked? I'm trying to decide on which school is best for me, and I am lost and confused on which schools to choose. The schools I am particular unsure of are Columbia, Penn, and my state school. How do I decide which is the best to go to? Any help would be appreciated.

yea schools are ranked. mine is the best and all of the others suck. :rolleyes:
 
Because there's no accurate or objective way to quantify what makes one school better than any other.

If your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it too?

Here are some objective standards to compare dental schools: student/faculty ratio, tuition, graduation rate, performance on national boards, DAT scores, GPA, research funding, alumni donation, etc. I'm not saying that school rankings should be the be all end all. It just provides a gauge and should be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of people argue that ranking dental schools is impossible, but if all the US medical schools can be ranked, so can the 55 US dental schools. That's all I'm saying. To answer your last question (which was quite unnecessary and rather irrelevant), I have a mind of my own and make my own decisions. Thus, that is why I posed my question in the first place. The general consensus is to say that dental schools can't be ranked. I simply just asked why, any problems with that?
 
Here are some objective standards to compare dental schools: student/faculty ratio, tuition, graduation rate, performance on national boards, DAT scores, GPA, research funding, alumni donation, etc. I'm not saying that school rankings should be the be all end all. It just provides a gauge and should be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of people argue that ranking dental schools is impossible, but if all the US medical schools can be ranked, so can the 55 US dental schools. That's all I'm saying. To answer your last question (which was quite unnecessary and rather irrelevant), I have a mind of my own and make my own decisions. Thus, that is why I posed my question in the first place. The general consensus is to say that dental schools can't be ranked. I simply just asked why, any problems with that?

I don't think that dental ranking is impossible, but that it's more trouble than it's worth to companies who would market a book for sale to pre-dents. There are many, many more medical schools and medical school applicants out there than dental school. The target audience is smaller for dental school, and the profit margin/expenditure in research would be lower. Also, the nature of dental school would require them to send out people to qualitatively determine clinic quality, clinical skills requirements, and etc, b/c this is one of the largest determinants for many as to whether or not a school is ranked high on their wish list.

Some schools would definitely express reticence in releasing such information, because it would not be to their advantage. The qualitative measures of assessment would be GPA, DAT, average NDBE I and II, class pass rates, % of class that graduates on time, externship opportunities, specialization rates, and etc. Some schools as of now aren't even willing to share on these. And that which they do allow access to, is already readily available on their website. It's not that it's impossible to rank dental schools, but dental schools may not want to release such information in an already smaller pool of available graduate programs.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I don't think that dental ranking is impossible, but that it's more trouble than it's worth to companies who would market a book for sale to pre-dents. There are many, many more medical schools and medical school applicants out there than dental school. The target audience is smaller for dental school, and the profit margin/expenditure in research would be lower. Also, the nature of dental school would require them to send out people to qualitatively determine clinic quality, clinical skills requirements, and etc, b/c this is one of the largest determinants for many as to whether or not a school is ranked high on their wish list.

Some schools would definitely express reticence in releasing such information, because it would not be to their advantage. The qualitative measures of assessment would be GPA, DAT, average NDBE I and II, class pass rates, % of class that graduates on time, externship opportunities, specialization rates, and etc. Some schools as of now aren't even willing to share on these. And that which they do allow access to, is already readily available on their website. It's not that it's impossible to rank dental schools, but dental schools may not want to release such information in an already smaller pool of available graduate programs.

That makes sense. Thanks for answering the question :thumbup:
 
Here are some objective standards to compare dental schools: student/faculty ratio, tuition, graduation rate, performance on national boards, DAT scores, GPA, research funding, alumni donation, etc. I'm not saying that school rankings should be the be all end all. It just provides a gauge and should be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of people argue that ranking dental schools is impossible, but if all the US medical schools can be ranked, so can the 55 US dental schools. That's all I'm saying. To answer your last question (which was quite unnecessary and rather irrelevant), I have a mind of my own and make my own decisions. Thus, that is why I posed my question in the first place. The general consensus is to say that dental schools can't be ranked. I simply just asked why, any problems with that?

Here's my point:

Roughly what percentage of how good a dentist a school produces is dependent upon tuition? Faculty:student ratio? Research funding? How much does entering GPA or DAT scores really tell you about the program?

So yes, you are correct in asserting that it is possible to rank dental school, but it doesn't mean that it's a good idea.
 
Which state school are you talking about? :confused:
Here is how I see it...Columbia and Penn's medical schools are both in the top ten in the USA...both undergrads are in the top ten...Columbia's law school is number 4 in the nation etc...
everything about those two schools are ranked within the TOP TEN compare with every other school!
So it's more then fair to assume that their dental school is just as good in quality...:D





Does anyone know if the schools are ranked? I'm trying to decide on which school is best for me, and I am lost and confused on which schools to choose. The schools I am particular unsure of are Columbia, Penn, and my state school. How do I decide which is the best to go to? Any help would be appreciated.
 
Which state school are you talking about? :confused:
Here is how I see it...Columbia and Penn's medical schools are both in the top ten in the USA...both undergrads are in the top ten...Columbia's law school is number 4 in the nation etc...
everything about those two schools are ranked within the TOP TEN compare with every other school!
So it's more then fair to assume that their dental school is just as good in quality...:D

Would NYU throw a wrench into your logic engine ?
 
Which state school are you talking about? :confused:
Here is how I see it...Columbia and Penn's medical schools are both in the top ten in the USA...both undergrads are in the top ten...Columbia's law school is number 4 in the nation etc...
everything about those two schools are ranked within the TOP TEN compare with every other school!
So it's more then fair to assume that their dental school is just as good in quality...:D

Actually, according to the latest on USNews, NYU law school is ranked 4th while Columbia is ranked 5th. Therefore, is NYU dental school>Columbia dental school? See where I'm getting at?
 
Actually, according to the latest on USNews, NYU law school is ranked 4th while Columbia is ranked 5th. Therefore, is NYU dental school>Columbia dental school? See where I'm getting at?

People avoid NYU because of the very high tuition and rumors about kicking out students. This says nothing about the quality of NYU's dental institution.
 
Roughly what percentage of how good a dentist a school produces is dependent upon tuition? Faculty:student ratio? Research funding? How much does entering GPA or DAT scores really tell you about the program?

They say less about the graduating dentists and more about the schools themselves.
 
Having rankings could produce lots of indirect consequences. It gives the schools more incentive to improve themselves, hire the best faculty, etc. People would actually learn of schools with lesser recognition like UoP, Midwestern, and Creighton (I'd never heard of these schools before).

It may not significantly change a student's choice of which school to attend. Students generally choose either the cheapest school they got into or the best school they got into, and on the whole they have a good idea of which schools are better, with or without rankings. From looking thru predents, ppl don't usually (emphasis on usually) choose Temple over UCSF, ASDOH over Columbia, etc.
 
They say less about the graduating dentists and more about the schools themselves.

Fair enough, but you see my point. The whole ranking system would be subjective and arbitrary. What matters more, research funding or faculty:student ratio? Who would determine that and how?
 
The "logic" works best for higher ranking schools...What I mean to said is if a school is continuously ranked in the top 5 or top 10 for "everything" (law, business, medicine, undergrad, grad school, etc. etc.) Then it is obvious that their dental school would be ranked in the top 5 or 10 as well.....For example Harvard is always ranked either number ONE or TWO for "everything"...so if there was ever a dental school ranking then Harvard School of Dental Medicine would most likely be ranked a 1 or a 2...thats what I mean to say...I mean would it really make sense if it wasn't?? :confused:





Would NYU throw a wrench into your logic engine ?
 
Having rankings could produce lots of indirect consequences. It gives the schools more incentive to improve themselves, hire the best faculty, etc. People would actually learn of schools with lesser recognition like UoP, Midwestern, and Creighton (I'd never heard of these schools before).

It may not significantly change a student's choice of which school to attend. Students generally choose either the cheapest school they got into or the best school they got into, and on the whole they have a good idea of which schools are better, with or without rankings. From looking thru predents, ppl don't usually (emphasis on usually) choose Temple over UCSF, ASDOH over Columbia, etc.


I agree most people know which schools are the better schools and which ones are not...but it would still be nice to have a ranking system for dental schools...:rolleyes:
 
Do you think most ranking systems are subjective and arbitrary? or are you just talking about dental school rankings?







Fair enough, but you see my point. The whole ranking system would be subjective and arbitrary. What matters more, research funding or faculty:student ratio? Who would determine that and how?
 
Do you think most ranking systems are subjective and arbitrary? or are you just talking about dental school rankings?

Yes, maybe I deserve a tin foil hat for it but yes I believe the US news ranking are arbitrary, subjective and don't necessarily tell you anything about the programs themselves.

I just recently read an interview, published in a US news book, from medical school administrators, that says the exact same thing.
 
Undergrad Universities were and probably still are considering dropping the ranking system on the basis that the rankings are nothing more than a beauty contest, and that many students do well in different environments. There also seems to be a lot of reputation involved in the decisions of many ranking systems. One example of bad ranking is that the UF men's basketball team wasn't initially ranked the first year they won the national championship.

Link to some criticism of the University ranking system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_college_and_university_rankings_(2007_United_State
 
Rankings are by nature man-made. They'll always be artificial and subjective to an extent.

I'd favor a rankings system, because they'll keep the schools in line. There'll be less of this USC students not graduating on time shindig. Plus, the schools'll have more incentive to attract better students. This translates to more scholarship money being offered to pull certain students their way. (We all know scholarships are few in dentistry.)

I'd disfavor a rankings system, because it turns admissions into a game. One of the criteria for rankings is selectivity of the school, and schools'd try to play the game by accepting as few as they can and still meet the class size requirement. There'll be fewer students who get into every school and more students who only get into 1 or 2 schools. Plus, I like how we can begin to see students at other schools as equals: students at ASDOH aren't better than Creighton students (if there were a rankings and ASDOH ranked higher, I'd be more inclined to think of them as better.)
 
I tend to agree with this philosophy as well:
In discussing Reed's decision, President Colin Diver wrote in an article for the November 2005 issue of the Atlantic Monthly, "by far the most important consequence of sitting out the rankings game, however, is the freedom to pursue our own educational philosophy, not that of some newsmagazine."
 
It says Reed College refused to participate in US News's rankings system. As a result, I've never heard of this college and never considered going there. In a similar situation, I've never heard of UoP, Creighton, Midwestern, ASDOH, VCU, Loma Linda, Nova, and Marquette. Only thru some stupid bulletin board did I learn about these schools.

All the more reason to get rid of the ranking system all together. Either submit to our ranking system or go unknown doesn't really sound fair and balanced now does it?
 
All the more reason to get rid of the ranking system all together. Either submit to our ranking system or go unknown doesn't really sound fair and balanced now does it?

Well, after I learned about these schools, I still didn't want to go there for one reason or another.

The last section of the article argued for the rankings and it made a very good point, albeit a tad bit weak. It's a system of peer assessment and helps people to sort out various information and getting a first job. Plus, I'd hate to have to research the thousands of colleges out there. Applying to dental schools was easy, because there're only a handful of private schools out there. (apply public = get rejected, apply private = glimmer of hope)
 
It says Reed College refused to participate in US News's rankings system. As a result, I've never heard of this college and never considered going there. In a similar situation, I've never heard of UoP, Creighton, Midwestern, ASDOH, VCU, Loma Linda, Nova, and Marquette. Only thru some stupid bulletin board did I learn about these schools.

Just because you havn't heard of these schools does not mean that others aren't very familiar with them. In fact, since deciding to pursue dentistry I've heard more about UoP, ASDOH, VCU, Loma Linda, Creigton and Nova than I've heard of Penn, Columbia, Harvard, NYU etc.

In fact, UoP and ASDOH would be much better fits for myself than any of the supposed "top ranked" schools. I'm glad there are no rankings to cloud my judgement.
 
It says Reed College refused to participate in US News's rankings system. As a result, I've never heard of this college and never considered going there. In a similar situation, I've never heard of UoP, Creighton, Midwestern, ASDOH, VCU, Loma Linda, Nova, and Marquette. Only thru some stupid bulletin board did I learn about these schools.

I agree with you on this one. I had no idea these schools even existed. That being said, I am not a slave to rankings. The schools you mentioned have good dental schools which is a good enough reason for anyone to attend them.

Rankings do play an important part in some parts of the world. Where I come from, marriages are actually sometimes decided on what schools/universities people go to. :confused:Yes, some places are very, very status conscious.
 
The "logic" works best for higher ranking schools...What I mean to said is if a school is continuously ranked in the top 5 or top 10 for "everything" (law, business, medicine, undergrad, grad school, etc. etc.) Then it is obvious that their dental school would be ranked in the top 5 or 10 as well.....For example Harvard is always ranked either number ONE or TWO for "everything"...so if there was ever a dental school ranking then Harvard School of Dental Medicine would most likely be ranked a 1 or a 2...thats what I mean to say...I mean would it really make sense if it wasn't?? :confused:

Ad hoc assumptions don't work here. You're looking at a very narrow set of schools to apply these rules to. I also wouldn't say that they are top 10 in everything. For example, if you speak to HBS and Law school grads from Harvard, you'll find that they probably wouldn't share the esteemed opinions brought to the public by Newsweek publishing.

There's really nothing obvious about it actually. Quality is certainly not uniform within such institutions. As an Ivy grad myself, I can say that my school contains some of the worst lecturer's and teachers I have ever had. A dancing chimp with a tambourine could have relayed the material just as well, simply by pointing randomly at powerpoint slides.
 
To everyone who still references "U.S. News & World Report Rankings", here's an interesting read:
 

Attachments

  • US News Ranking.pdf
    145.8 KB · Views: 211
Ad hoc assumptions don't work here. You're looking at a very narrow set of schools to apply these rules to. I also wouldn't say that they are top 10 in everything. For example, if you speak to HBS and Law school grads from Harvard, you'll find that they probably wouldn't share the esteemed opinions brought to the public by Newsweek publishing.

There's really nothing obvious about it actually. Quality is certainly not uniform within such institutions. As an Ivy grad myself, I can say that my school contains some of the worst lecturer's and teachers I have ever had. A dancing chimp with a tambourine could have relayed the material just as well, simply by pointing randomly at powerpoint slides.

But Columbia'd probably have a very good chance of being top 10 and even top 5 for dental schools. I don't know how good they are, but I noticed they take top notch students, and many students rush to go there above many schools. Even without rankings, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UCLA, and UCSF are the schools most highly soughtafter. Somewhere close behind these 5 would be UoP. But who tha hell's every heard of University of the Pacific? Is that a school on some island somewhere?
 
To everyone who still references "U.S. News & World Report Rankings", here's an interesting read:

The methodology is crap. We all know that. But I acknowledge that it has an effect that can't as easily be ignored. The top ranked schools tend to attract more desirable students.
 
The "presitgious by proxy" argument does not work, because many of these ivy league type institutions have departments that are not prestigious. An example would be Yale business school. It is not highly regarded at all.
 
But Columbia'd probably have a very good chance of being top 10 and even top 5 for dental schools. I don't know how good they are, but I noticed they take top notch students, and many students rush to go there above many schools. Even without rankings, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UCLA, and UCSF are the schools most highly soughtafter. Somewhere close behind these 5 would be UoP. But who tha hell's every heard of University of the Pacific? Is that a school on some island somewhere?

I'd take SB over any of those schools listed... in fact, I chose it over two of them! I don't know where you're from, but I'm not sure everyone in the northeast would agree with you... which probably contributes to the argument against ranking.
 
Are you picking SB over the others because of money?



I'd take SB over any of those schools listed... in fact, I chose it over two of them! I don't know where you're from, but I'm not sure everyone in the northeast would agree with you... which probably contributes to the argument against ranking.
 
Which Ivy are you from?



Ad hoc assumptions don't work here. You're looking at a very narrow set of schools to apply these rules to. I also wouldn't say that they are top 10 in everything. For example, if you speak to HBS and Law school grads from Harvard, you'll find that they probably wouldn't share the esteemed opinions brought to the public by Newsweek publishing.

There's really nothing obvious about it actually. Quality is certainly not uniform within such institutions. As an Ivy grad myself, I can say that my school contains some of the worst lecturer's and teachers I have ever had. A dancing chimp with a tambourine could have relayed the material just as well, simply by pointing randomly at powerpoint slides.
 
I'd take SB over any of those schools listed... in fact, I chose it over two of them! I don't know where you're from, but I'm not sure everyone in the northeast would agree with you... which probably contributes to the argument against ranking.

I'm speaking of general tendencies. Not suggesting a law that everyone abides by.

And Mont, so you've had bad lecturers. Havn't we all?
 
I'm speaking of general tendencies. Not suggesting a law that everyone abides by.

And Mont, so you've had bad lecturers. Havn't we all?

That's kind of my point. Ivy league or not, poor lecturers are poor lecturers. Prestige means very little to me as a student because of this. I have friends who went to Temple and Saint Joe's, all very close to my alma mater, Penn. The only difference that Penn offers, are the alumni benefits, and they are very helpful (ie. a nice, affordable hotel to stay at in NYC, alumni job connections, shadowing opportunities, internship offers, etc.) The quality of education, however, was comparable.

You're speaking of general tendencies, and critique other general opinions - it's all conjecture. It's really not that hard for me to imagine why someone would, say, pick UoP over Columbia.
 
That's kind of my point. Ivy league or not, poor lecturers are poor lecturers. Prestige means very little to me as a student because of this. I have friends who went to Temple and Saint Joe's, all very close to my alma mater, Penn. The only difference that Penn offers, are the alumni benefits, and they are very helpful (ie. a nice, affordable hotel to stay at in NYC, alumni job connections, shadowing opportunities, internship offers, etc.) The quality of education, however, was comparable.

You're speaking of general tendencies, and critique other general opinions - it's all conjecture. It's really not that hard for me to imagine why someone would, say, pick UoP over Columbia.

Let me rephrase again. I'm stating observations I've made based on what I've seen available on predents and mdapplicants. I've noticed lots of top students going to top schools, and lots of top students going to schools giving them money. I'm not making claims of my own. There cannot be conjecture when I make no claims and opinions of my own. If I were to try to go further and try to explain, for example, why certain tendencies exist, that would be conjecture.
 
Let me rephrase again. I'm stating observations I've made based on what I've seen available on predents and mdapplicants. I've noticed lots of top students going to top schools, and lots of top students going to schools giving them money. I'm not making claims of my own. There cannot be conjecture when I make no claims and opinions of my own. If I were to try to go further and try to explain, for example, why certain tendencies exist, that would be conjecture.

Having rankings could produce lots of indirect consequences. It gives the schools more incentive to improve themselves, hire the best faculty, etc. People would actually learn of schools with lesser recognition like UoP, Midwestern, and Creighton (I'd never heard of these schools before).

Speculation without sufficient evidence, as I'm quoting from you above, is the literal definition of conjecture. Schools that are as highly ranked as the Ivy's, are still capable of hiring professors that cannot teach for the life of them, but have exceptional research accolades. Would this still qualify as the best of faculty, particularly for dental school ?
 
Top