School Rankings

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Speculation without sufficient evidence, as I'm quoting from you above, is the literal definition of conjecture. Schools that are as highly ranked as the Ivy's, are still capable of hiring professors that cannot teach for the life of them, but have exceptional research accolades. Would this still qualify as the best of faculty, particularly for dental school?

Okay, two different thoughts circulating in this thread. One's an observation and the other's speculation.

Idea one - Students tend to (emphasis on tend to) go to best school they got into. This is an observation I made from perusing thru predents and mdapplicants. These two sites serve as my source. Feel free to skim thru profiles and see if you notice the same thing.

Idea two - Possible consequences of a rankings system. This is purely brainstorming possibilities using intuition. I have no support for anything here, and I'm not sure there can be support.

And the best faculty idea will inevitably lead to a deadend no matter which side you choose to argue for. No school can have all the best faculty, while some may have more to choose from. No "best faculty" will be the best for everyone, especially since there are numerous learning styles. Not to mention that age-old Best Researcher vs Best Instructor topic. The list goes on...

But this is getting stupid, so let's change the topic. Did you not enjoy your time at Penn? ...did you take any classes with Pulitzer Prize winners or Nobel lureates? Did you do research on some cutting-edge topic with redhot scientists? Did you do a keg stand while at America's number one party school? Did you pass the bong around too many times (answer this one yourself and not on here)?

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I thought since you guys are both NY residents that you would pick SB over the others b/c of in state tuition...There is nothing wrong with that...I mean if I was accepted to UNC and Columbia I would have a tough time choosing too...Columbia is waaaay better but UNC has a better price if you are in state... so it will be hard for anyone to choose!




I don't think we pick Stony Brook over the others because of the money.
 
But this is getting stupid, so let's change the topic. Did you not enjoy your time at Penn? ...did you take any classes with Pulitzer Prize winners or Nobel lureates? Did you do research on some cutting-edge topic with redhot scientists? Did you do a keg stand while at America's number one party school? Did you pass the bong around too many times (answer this one yourself and not on here)?

definitely, nope, yes, nope (Isn't BC the top party school in the nation according to the Associated Press) and nope (I don't drink or do drugs). I would probably rank the tertiary opportunities granted from being a student there as higher than the actual quality of education.

Yourself ?
 
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Are you picking SB over the others because of money?
No, I thought it was a better school. Fewer students, better facilities, a more well-rounded and thorough education, best reputation in the northeast for graduates (IMO and all the dentists I've asked).

But my point was more that the general "feeling" that certain schools are better than others is highly subjective and varied, that there are very few dental schools, and location plays a huge factor in the selection process for applicants.
 
Yourself ?

Did you not enjoy your time at Penn? ...did you take any classes with Pulitzer Prize winners or Nobel lureates? Did you do research on some cutting-edge topic with redhot scientists? Did you do a keg stand while at America's number one party school? Did you pass the bong around too many times (answer this one yourself and not on here)?

School was fun. The people were great, once you're able to break the ice.

I actually did take a class with a PP winner. Not a Nobel Lureate. That's one of my regrets.

Did research, but the topic was stupid. Doing stuff on animal cloning or stem cell'd be cool.

No keg stands, but lots of hard liquor.

No, I didn't pass the bong around too many times.
 
Columbia has the better didactic education and they are better in general..especially since they had the good sense to accept me on Dec 1st! ;)



Really? I heard UNC dental has one of the best didactic education curriculums out there.
 
Columbia has the better didactic education and they are better in general.;)

This is a ridiculous comment. I hope that little smiley means that you weren't serious.
 
Columbia has the better didactic education and they are better in general..especially since they had the good sense to accept me on Dec 1st! ;)

someone is a little biased ;)
 
Columbia has the better didactic education and they are better in general..especially since they had the good sense to accept me on Dec 1st! ;)

i'm a little confused too...
Columbia is definately one of the top dental schools, but you kind of make it sound like Columbia is #1 and nothing else..

hope you didn't imply that against other schools, cause I believe it's up to how much effort each individual puts in to succeed as a GP or specialist, not how reputable and good the school program is..

Just my 2 cent
 
i'm a little confused too...
Columbia is definately one of the top dental schools, but you kind of make it sound like Columbia is #1 and nothing else..

hope you didn't imply that against other schools, cause I believe it's up to how much effort each individual puts in to succeed as a GP or specialist, not how reputable and good the school program is..

Just my 2 cent


People, she's comparing Columbia and UNC and no other school. From what she's said in the past, she's using US News to guide her decision, which is fine. She's saying that Columbia has a better didactic program compared to NC. Columbia Dental's medical. She'll be attending the #10 ranked medical school, while UNC's #20. And as far as Columbia being better [than UNC] in general, Columbia's higher ranked than UNC in many other fields too.

And on the matter of "it's all about how much effort you put in," have you ever met people who don't seem to study but soak up information like a sponge? And people who study hard as hell but seem to have the intelligence of a rock?
 
People, she's comparing Columbia and UNC and no other school. From what she's said in the past, she's using US News to guide her decision, which is fine. She's saying that Columbia has a better didactic program compared to NC. Columbia Dental's medical. She'll be attending the #10 ranked medical school, while UNC's #20. And as far as Columbia being better [than UNC] in general, Columbia's higher ranked than UNC in many other fields too.

And on the matter of "it's all about how much effort you put in," have you ever met people who don't seem to study but soak up information like a sponge? And people who study hard as hell but seem to have the intelligence of a rock?

Well, considering the rankings don't take the quality of the didactic education into account so much as some voodoo about other administrators opinions and entering statistics of the med school applicants, the rankings don't mean two poops for dentistry let alone the disagreement about how much they're actually applicable to medicine.

As far as the effort issue, no matter what level of absorbulation you have, the more effort you put in the better you're going to do hands down. How does what you said apply to the debate at hand? Throw someone who study incredibly hard but can't learn anything into an Ivy league school and magically they're a stud?
 
Well, considering the rankings don't take the quality of the didactic education into account so much as some voodoo about other administrators opinions and entering statistics of the med school applicants, the rankings don't mean two poops for dentistry let alone the disagreement about how much they're actually applicable to medicine.

As far as the effort issue, no matter what level of absorbulation you have, the more effort you put in the better you're going to do hands down. How does what you said apply to the debate at hand? Throw someone who study incredibly hard but can't learn anything into an Ivy league school and magically they're a stud?

I never said it did. I simply said that it's may be her driving force for her argument.

What are you talking about?
 
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People, she's comparing Columbia and UNC and no other school. From what she's said in the past, she's using US News to guide her decision, which is fine. She's saying that Columbia has a better didactic program compared to NC. Columbia Dental's medical. She'll be attending the #10 ranked medical school, while UNC's #20. And as far as Columbia being better [than UNC] in general, Columbia's higher ranked than UNC in many other fields too.

NYU also has some programs ranked higher than UNC by US News, but I've seen that school take way more than its fair share of abuse on this forum. Let's just call this for what it is: there's a culture on SDN and among dental students that is very into the prestige game and secretly laments the fact that there isn't some institution telling them which schools are "better in general" (lmao) to help "guide" them in the decision making process.

And on the matter of "it's all about how much effort you put in," have you ever met people who don't seem to study but soak up information like a sponge? And people who study hard as hell but seem to have the intelligence of a rock?

Yes on both accounts, but don't bank on too many of the latter matriculating into a dental school.
 
This is a ridiculous comment. I hope that little smiley means that you weren't serious.



I wasn't serious, BUT I am still kind of bitter about UNC not accepting me on Dec 1st though....UNC LOVES to accept some people that IMO are NOT qualified at all or are much less qualified then other applicants applying...Unlike some other schools (columbia for example) which actually chooses students that are the MOST qualified...OKay I better stop here before a million angry people come in...;)
UNC has a stupid policy...they accept half their class on Dec 1 and half their class on Feb 1st...so I will have to wait till Feb 1st to know if I am accepted/rejected from them....It would have been nice if UNC would let me know if I am (accepted/rejected on Dec 1st) So I would not be forced to put a 2000 dollar deposit down on Columbia...But then again if UNC and Columbia both accepted me now I would NOT know which one to choose so I guess putting down 2K is not as bad as I thought...but still thanks to UNC's policy I might have to lose 2000 dollars!
 
This is exactly what I am saying!!! I have to look at US News for Medical Schools to make my decision since dental schools aren't ranked!

But I am beginning to agree with amorshell as well about the rankings being subjective and that Ivy League schools have high board scores b/c they accept students with higher DAT scores etc....I never really thought about it that way either...

However prestige is very important as well...It open doors for you in the future and you can make great connections etc...(not to mention if you are single...its a great place for you to meet someone...:D;):thumbup:)







People, she's comparing Columbia and UNC and no other school. From what she's said in the past, she's using US News to guide her decision, which is fine. She's saying that Columbia has a better didactic program compared to NC. Columbia Dental's medical. She'll be attending the #10 ranked medical school, while UNC's #20. And as far as Columbia being better [than UNC] in general, Columbia's higher ranked than UNC in many other fields too.

And on the matter of "it's all about how much effort you put in," have you ever met people who don't seem to study but soak up information like a sponge? And people who study hard as hell but seem to have the intelligence of a rock?
 
This is exactly what I am saying!!! I have to look at US News for Medical Schools to make my decision since dental schools aren't ranked!

But I am beginning to agree with amorshell as well about the rankings being subjective and that Ivy League schools have high board scores b/c they accept students with higher DAT scores etc....I never really thought about it that way either...

However prestige is very important as well...It open doors for you in the future and you can make great connections etc...(not to mention if you are single...its a great place for you to meet someone...:D;):thumbup:)

Are you serious ?
 
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Well, I just broke up with my boyfriend...so going to a Ivy could increase my chances of meeting someone better...but sorry to get off topic. :p

My point is the prestige is worth the extra $$$ as long as it's not TOO MUCH extra $$$! ;)


I guess the prestige/opening doors bit could be true to some extent

but this one's kinda iffy to me :confused:
 
However prestige is very important as well...It open doors for you in the future and you can make great connections etc...(not to mention if you are single...its a great place for you to meet someone...:D;):thumbup:)

Are you talking about the undergrad? I'm honestly just not sure who you're hoping to make connections with other than future dentists and specialists.

Hell, if you plan to specialize it might behoove you to go to a school that produces mainly GPs because the connections you make are more likely to lend to referrals.
 
My point is the prestige is worth the extra $$$ as long as it's not TOO MUCH extra $$$! ;)

Did you use this line during your UNC interview? I mean, as long as you followed it up with a wink, then I'm sure their admissions committee wouldn't have taken offense.
 
definitely, nope, yes, nope (Isn't BC the top party school in the nation according to the Associated Press) and nope (I don't drink or do drugs). I would probably rank the tertiary opportunities granted from being a student there as higher than the actual quality of education.

Yourself ?

yeahhhhh boston colllege babay!!!
 
Why would you look at other rankings (medical school, law school, etc.) to determine wheither or not they have a good dental school. Like someone else stated before the school is what the individual makes it. Don't think that just because you go a school that's ranked #1 you are #1. Wheither you want to except it or not there is ALWAYS someone better than you. The school does not give you recognition, you earn the recognition for your school by doing the best work.
I don't think that ranking would make that much of a difference in decisions because you already know what school you WANT to go to and someone else's opinion won't change that. And everyone has their own reasons why they want to go to the school in the first place.
Happy New Year, You guys!!!! :hardy:The best of luck with school...Getting in is just the beginning!!! God Bless!!
 
I wasn't serious, BUT I am still kind of bitter about UNC not accepting me on Dec 1st though....UNC LOVES to accept some people that IMO are NOT qualified at all or are much less qualified then other applicants applying...Unlike some other schools (columbia for example) which actually chooses students that are the MOST qualified...OKay I better stop here before a million angry people come in...;)
UNC has a stupid policy...they accept half their class on Dec 1 and half their class on Feb 1st...so I will have to wait till Feb 1st to know if I am accepted/rejected from them....It would have been nice if UNC would let me know if I am (accepted/rejected on Dec 1st) So I would not be forced to put a 2000 dollar deposit down on Columbia...But then again if UNC and Columbia both accepted me now I would NOT know which one to choose so I guess putting down 2K is not as bad as I thought...but still thanks to UNC's policy I might have to lose 2000 dollars!

If you feel that strongly against UNC, then just be glad that Columbia, a school that according to you selects only qualified candidates, accepted you. And no one is forcing you to put down your deposit money. Please stop with all the whining and just be glad that you got accepted.
 
If you feel that strongly against UNC, then just be glad that Columbia, a school that according to you selects only qualified candidates, accepted you. And no one is forcing you to put down your deposit money. Please stop with all the whining and just be glad that you got accepted.

Nice reply. Believe it or not, I learned as a member of the admissions committee at UNC for two years while I was a dental student that there are criteria beyond just numbers that are important in determine what applicants are the "best fit" for any program. Although those criteria may be different for each program, they do exist. DAT scores and GPAs don't necessarily make a good dental student (which was allude to by other posters). I will say that the UNC adcom consistently puts together a good class that not only is plenty smart academically (although predents want to believe the smarts of a astropysicist are needed to be a good dentist when really good old common sense is just as important). I would hope that most dental schools could say the same about their classes, too.

Even if ranking were available, they would only be as accurate as the subjective criteria that are used to detemine them. (And though UNC was routinely ranked in the top 5 back when rankings were most recently published, I'm glad they aren't published any longer despite having gone there...)

Bottom line is this: the best dental school for you is the one you attend. Hard to compare apples to oranges if all you ever eat are apples. Same is true in trying to compare dental schools.

Good luck to all of you in the process...the road is well worth the work it takes to get there. :)
 
I just had to chime in here after reading this thread. I say "three cheers" to all the Dental schools for giving the finger to US News and World Reports. This is a remarkable thing and we should be proud that our academic profession alone has the cajones to do what all the others wish they could.

The downside (or upside depending on how you see it) is that the prospective applicant is forced to choose and think for themselves which school is best. This raises the rants and raves of some who wish things were otherwise. Of course, we will always have the uber-competitive jerks around who pray for the rest of the world to know how much better they are than everyone else. They can go up and down predents.com comparing stats all they want and congratulate themselves merrily at how grand they are. Just hope that they dont land in your year group.

Maybe the dental schools secretly hope that all applicants inclined to make a choice based primarily on the opinion of a news magazine over the better judgement of themselves, their peers, interview experience, etc. will seek out another profession like podiatry or medicine. Just my 2 cents.
 
Are you talking about the undergrad? I'm honestly just not sure who you're hoping to make connections with other than future dentists and specialists.

Hell, if you plan to specialize it might behoove you to go to a school that produces mainly GPs because the connections you make are more likely to lend to referrals.

Amen.
 
This is exactly what I am saying!!! I have to look at US News for Medical Schools to make my decision since dental schools aren't ranked!

But I am beginning to agree with amorshell as well about the rankings being subjective and that Ivy League schools have high board scores b/c they accept students with higher DAT scores etc....I never really thought about it that way either...

However prestige is very important as well...It open doors for you in the future and you can make great connections etc...(not to mention if you are single...its a great place for you to meet someone...:D;):thumbup:)

What sort of "connections" are you speaking of? This is not high finance with backroom handshakes and good ol' boy networks. "Connections" are of little value in dentistry because most successful dentists are self-employed serving the middle class.

Just admit it: you are caught up in the prestige and curb-appeal of the Columbia name, and you are intrigued by studying at an ivy leage institution. There is nothing wrong with that, but the idea that Columbia produces better dentists than most schools is unbased. Good luck, Columbia is a fine school, and there is nothing wrong with your choice.
 
Some people just love Ivy League school. My good friend transfered to Cornell just becaue his father told him to (otherwise would not pay for the tuition). I don't mean to be racist, but he was asian. I'm also asian and kinda understood it. It happens a lot. Asian parents loooove Ivy League name. lol

I'm not going to Ivy League school tho and am glad...mostly because of the weather. I love to visit snow and whatnot, but coldness pseudo-kills my spirit. lol.

Screw rankings anyways. Everyone should go wherever they feel like goin, not by the ranking. Interview process would otherwise be a waste of money and time. But I do believe not all schools are equal...some schools just sucked...
 
If you feel that strongly against UNC, then just be glad that Columbia, a school that according to you selects only qualified candidates, accepted you. And no one is forcing you to put down your deposit money. Please stop with all the whining and just be glad that you got accepted.

But omg do you know how many LV bags $2000 would buy? I seem to recall this poster equating saving money with figuring out how many designer bags you could buy with the savings. I laughed for a while at that one. :laugh:
 
Hey NOW! that's not funny! I actually had to sell one of my LV bags to paid for my deposit at Columbia...:( (working at dental labs= LOW pay:thumbdown:)




But omg do you know how many LV bags $2000 would buy? I seem to recall this poster equating saving money with figuring out how many designer bags you could buy with the savings. I laughed for a while at that one. :laugh:
 
This thread is so hilarious I can't stop laughing.
 
That's another good point that I haven't thought about...:)
but my other two choices are NYU and Nova...none of those are known to produce many GPs like UoP. ;)



Are you talking about the undergrad? I'm honestly just not sure who you're hoping to make connections with other than future dentists and specialists.

Hell, if you plan to specialize it might behoove you to go to a school that produces mainly GPs because the connections you make are more likely to lend to referrals.
 
Sorry if I sound ungrateful but I just wished I had MORE choices....




If you feel that strongly against UNC, then just be glad that Columbia, a school that according to you selects only qualified candidates, accepted you. And no one is forcing you to put down your deposit money. Please stop with all the whining and just be glad that you got accepted.
 
But omg do you know how many LV bags $2000 would buy? I seem to recall this poster equating saving money with figuring out how many designer bags you could buy with the savings. I laughed for a while at that one. :laugh:

um, none worth buying. Who spends $400 on a bag? Just throw your crap into a Kroger bag and be done with it. Bvlgari wallets, now that's another story.
 
Sorry if I sound ungrateful but I just wished I had MORE choices....

Even if you get into UNC (hopefully), I can see from your posts (which are oozing with love for Columbia) that you will most likely go to Columbia in the end.

God, Ivy leagues have become a brand! :)
 
Are you kidding me? NYU produces more GPs per year than the number of people in my entire class :laugh:

she meant to say, as high a percentage. NYU has a gigantic class size by the time 4th year rolls around. They'll produce more GP's than any 2-3 schools combined.
 
The school does not give you recognition, you earn the recognition for your school by doing the best work.
I don't think that ranking would make that much of a difference in decisions because you already know what school you WANT to go to and someone else's opinion won't change that. And everyone has their own reasons why they want to go to the school in the first place.

This guy's logic is the most reasonable in my opinion.. :rolleyes:

After all, most patients look at how the dentist treat them as their preference guide, NOT by the prestige.
 
I mean NYU and Nova aren't known to be the schools to produces GPs...like Temple, UoP etc...
But seriously Armor, if you (or anyone else that says rankings aren't important...:rolleyes:) had to choose btw Columbia, NYU and Nova...I know you all would most likely choose Columbia without a doubt! :p


Are you kidding me? NYU produces more GPs per year than the number of people in my entire class :laugh:
 
I mean NYU and Nova aren't known to be the schools to produces GPs...like Temple, UoP etc...
But seriously Armor, if you (or anyone else that says rankings aren't important...:rolleyes:) had to choose btw Columbia, NYU and Nova...I know you all would most likely choose Columbia without a doubt! :p

Columbia would be the cheapest, hence, the obvious choice.:D. Or maybe Nova is a bit cheaper, but only slightly.

But, I do get your point. Rankings are important for many people.
 
I mean NYU and Nova aren't known to be the schools to produces GPs...like Temple, UoP etc...
But seriously Armor, if you (or anyone else that says rankings aren't important...:rolleyes:) had to choose btw Columbia, NYU and Nova...I know you all would most likely choose Columbia without a doubt! :p

I know what you meant, I was just pointing out an error in the 'ol logic. After that I agree with tamkhan. At the level of difference in cost tghere are ancillary factors that become important like family, location and sure, you can have your perceived prestige. Why not? I don't care if an individual picks a school because they think it's prestigious or "higher ranked", I just want to make sure people realize that's a ridiculous reason and in most cases, insignificant.
 
Wow cmstry
I am really jelous of you hahahahah
make sure you pm me when you start your d1 year at VCU, I live in Richmond, VA and I want some inside tips about it :p
 
When SHC chooses Columbia, she also is opening more doors than she realizes. For one, she'll have an easy entrance into one of the country's top business school, and she'll get in for no other reason than because she went to Columbia dental. Rankings do matter extremely there. Who knows? Maybe a DMD/MBA'll help in nationally marketing dental supplies. In that case, no dental specialty can touch that income.

She can also attend Ivy mixers, since she's so obviously into the Ivy boys.
 
Haha, while those technically are doors, they're wee little hobbit doors. If you're going to school to market dental supplies, you could probably save yourself roughly 4 years of time by cutting out the ol' DDS. As far as the income thing, if my memory serves me right Bill Dorfman's income is split down the middle between Discus Dental and his private practice.

Of course, he didn't go anywhere fancy like Columbia ;)

I won't argue about the Ivy boys thing, can't get that anywhere else, though in my mind they all probably look something like this:
bottomtooth-772504.jpg
 
I won't argue about the Ivy boys thing, can't get that anywhere else, though in my mind they all probably look something like this:
bottomtooth-772504.jpg

Maybe she finds that sexy.
 
I don't know why ANYONE in their right mind would pay attention to any sort of rankings. My reasoning is they can't even get the rankings right in college football where they compete against each other and have a much more accurate form of measuring school vs. school....how in the world do you expect an accurate and unbiased ranking of dental school that are inherently cooperative in nature. It makes no sense to me. Anyways, what would some journalist know about ranking dental schools anyways.
 
Columbia has the better didactic education and they are better in general..especially since they had the good sense to accept me on Dec 1st! ;)

Slow down tiger, I did my master's at Columbia's College of Physicians and Surgeons (Medical School) and many of my professors were P&S faculty members. P&S is an amazing school and I would recommend it to anyone. However, for you to compare two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT dental schools is pretty ridiculous. Yes, you take some of your didactic course work at P&S, which is as good as any school out there, BUT you also take a lot of courses outside of P&S and within the dental school, which is most likely the same as any other dental school. You cannot compare dental schools. End of discussion.
 
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