JohnHolmes

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All,

A lot of my people are revving up to go through the 2005 application cycle. I thought this would be a good thread for a lot of them...there are NUMEROUS of us out there who were worried about whether we could get into school ... everything we had been told, we were borderline, and may or may not get in. So ... the question many faced is ... CAN I GET IN? WHERE? WHAT PLACES WILL GIVE ME A SHOT TO PROVE ILL BE A GOOD DOCTOR?

If anyone could offer some advice or some schools that give those in fear of rejection, or those going through reapplication what places worked for them, I think it would do a lot to help people tryign to decide where to send their $30 for primary schools ... it might just be the difference in a future MDs life...

CCW
 

JohnHolmes

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Its a great idea, but those numbers can be a bit misleading...

for example Columbia accepts 12% and UVM accepts 5% or something like that ...

:shrugs: Thanks for the starting pt though, Ill definitely start looking into that.

CCW
 
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exmike

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I'd just look for lowest MCATs. Those schools tend to be the easiet to get into. It doesnt seem like GPA varies nearly as much as MCATs between schools.
 

JohnHolmes

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Exmike,

Thanks for the advice. I know you went through this process just now, what schools did you find were receptive?

CCW
 

bewitched1081

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Originally posted by exmike
I'd just look for lowest MCATs. Those schools tend to be the easiet to get into. It doesnt seem like GPA varies nearly as much as MCATs between schools.
if you are looking for an easy school to get into then you dont just want to choose the schools with the lowest mcats. you also want to look at how many interviews were handed out at those schools. some schools are very selective in areas that cannot be quantitatively measured. i would say those are the hardest schools to get into.
 

JohnHolmes

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Here are some schools I have seen in a number of posts that seem to be pretty popular:

NYMC
Finch
George Washington
Georgetown

.....wanna add to the list? :)
 

Supadupafly

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Try looking at the acceptance list for SDN & get a copy of U.S. News: look at the numbers each school accepts. Over 300 could probably be considered significant, although not an indicator of less stringent selectivity for any one school.
 

biffbuddy

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I was a borderline applicant (not according to my parents or premed advisor) with below 30 mcats but a high gpa, and i was terrified i would not get in anywhere - so i was planning what i would do next year before i even applied!

if i could offer advice for next year, it would be to really investigate (through sdn especially) what the schools really strive to produce and what values they look for - although everyone says the process is totally random, which it is a LOT of the time, this doesnt prevent you from keying in on a few schools that match you and thus are more worthy an investment when applying.

for example, i did not have stellar mcats, but i did have a good amount of community service, extracurriculars, and research experience. in my essay, i emphasized my volunteer activities, volunteering in a cancer ward and shadowing doctors in an ER, and how important these experiences were for teaching me that taking care of patients is not only about treating immediate problems, but taking care of the patient in a holistic way, mind, body, and spirit. I started to notice a trend in my application process that pretty soon after all of my stuff was in, i received interview invites from loyola, g'town, and BU - all three of these schools are very similar:
g'town and loyola, both being jesuit, emphasize cura personalis, or curing the whole person- BU emphasizes there dedication to serving the underserved in society (being a large inner-city medical center that provides free care to many) and stresses community services. it did not seem like much of a coincidence after interviewing at these three schools that it was so random.


so there are some qualities beyond pure number cutoffs that appeal to admissions committees

i write this out of respect to all those sdners who gave me so much awesome advice in my own year of application
rock on sdn
 

Amy B

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1. I think you definetly need to read through a school's web site before you apply to it. Some schools are not receptive to out-of-staters such as East Carolina, Tenn, etc. where as some schools love out-of-staters such as MCV. So make sure your state status is what a school is looking for.

2. Call the schools if the web site doesn't list cutoffs for secondaries. If you have a 25 MCAT and the school has a cutoff of 26, then there is no point is sending them your application. You won't be given a secondary no matter what the rest of your application looks like. Ex: Oregon only sends secondaries to applicants with MCATs over 24.

3. Don't apply to a research heavy school if you don't have any research on your application. You will more than likely be wasting your money.

4. DO schools are MUCH MORE receptive to older, non-trad applicants. VCOM is very interested in talking to older applicants. So is WVSOM and LECOM.

If you have steller stats , then by all means apply only MD. However if you are like alot of older students, you probably have a lower GPA or MCAT or both, so do yourself a favor and look into the DO profession. You may be pleasently surprised. DO schools look at your overall application. I know some MD schools say they aren't about numbers, but from my experience and from lots of people I have contact with, MD schools are not as easily persuaded to overlook a lower stat and look at the whole application.

I know there will be some here that disagree with me on #4, but I am speaking from experience. I have had both DO and MD interviews. Each MD interview, I was questioned and probed about a bad semester where I earned 3 C's due to a death in my imediate family. Mind you, they were the only c's on my transcript. At the DO schools, I was told that it must have been hard for me dealing with a sudden illness and death like I did. they admired me for contiuing in spite of the situation.

Just my 2 cents on that subject.

5. Read through the MSAR that can be found in every pre-med advisor's office.

Don't know if this was the advice you were wanting in this thread. I can only talk about the schools that I have had contact with.

But a thread like this is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:clap:
 

JohnHolmes

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Sweet. Thanks guys:

Im gonna add..

MCP (Drexel)
Temple
UVM (I love Vermont)

to the current list:

Finch
NYMC
GW
Georgetown

Sweet. Good luck to all those in the current cycle!!! I hope this thread helps!

CCW
 

JohnHolmes

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Do you think UMDNJ-RWJ fits the description and would be a good school, receptive to out of staters with 29-30 MCAT and 3.4, etc

CCW
 
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Buckeye(OH)

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OOO, I like this thread, I am an average/borderline student as well and this should be helpful

3.23 (one D and one F, both of which were retaken)
MCAT: 28 (8-8-12)
Graduate GPA: 4.0


Good ECs, good LOR's, publications etc.


There isn't a day that goes by about me thinking about NOT getting in.



Adrian
 

JohnHolmes

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UIC (univ Ill-Chicago)
Ohio State
Albany?

Does Albany qualify? Advice? What about OSU? I feel better about adding UIC?

CCW
 

quideam

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Ummm... Cooper.... aren't you in at Wash U and a finalist for their merit scholarship?!?!
 
E

Eraserhead

UIC is extremely expensive if you are out of state, its not worth applying.
 
B

Blade28

Originally posted by Amy B
1. I think you definetly need to read through a school's web site before you apply to it. Some schools are not receptive to out-of-staters such as East Carolina, Tenn, etc.
VERY good point. :thumbup:
 

exmike

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Originally posted by Eraserhead
UIC is extremely expensive if you are out of state, its not worth applying.
Well, if you want to go to medical school that badly, i dont think price is an issue.
 

exmike

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Originally posted by quideam
Ummm... Cooper.... aren't you in at Wash U and a finalist for their merit scholarship?!?!
hes doing this for his friend
 

exmike

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I dont think Ohio State qualifies as a school with a "reasonable chance of acceptance", esp since its pushing to become an "elite" medical school (according to them at least). Its also somewhat public.
 

Buckeye(OH)

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Originally posted by exmike
I dont think Ohio State qualifies as a school with a "reasonable chance of acceptance", esp since its pushing to become an "elite" medical school (according to them at least). Its also somewhat public.
OSU is becoming extremely difficult to get in to. I wouldn't even dream of getting into OSU and some of my LOR's are coming from the College of Medicine Faculty.



Adrian
 
E

Eraserhead

Originally posted by Buckeye(OH)
OSU is becoming extremely difficult to get in to. I wouldn't even dream of getting into OSU and some of my LOR's are coming from the College of Medicine Faculty.



Adrian
i thought a year ago that ohio state would be a safety school, but i didn't even get an interview.
 
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JohnHolmes

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Originally posted by exmike
hes doing this for his friend
Thanks exmike.

True, I don't think expense would deter a lot of people who know medicine is for them.

Those who went through it, would recommend someone apply to

Albany
RWJ in NJ

for out of state and have a good chance of admission with 3.4/5 and 28-29 MCAT ...

Thanks for all your help, guys...

CCW
 

Super Rob

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This is actually a pretty cool thread.

There are two problems with applying to schools based on average MCAT scores and other selectivity markers:

1. Everybody applies to schools that are "easy" to get into, so you end up with 10,000 applicants, of which only about 400 have a chance of being accepted. Thus, the school becomes "hard" to get into. Remember that no matter where you apply to, there will be thousands of other applicants. Some schools do not have the opportunity to interview every candidate with stellar grades, board scores, and life experiences. You may be Einstein and apply to a school that boasts an average gpa of 3.1 and an average MCAT of 25, but there will still be 9,999 other applicants and unless you dye your application flourescent pink, it will blend right in with the other 9,999 applications accumulating dust until Dr. Smith spends all of twenty-five seconds to review it and decide whether or not you get an interview... hopefully, he's in a good mood when he happens upon it! This leads to my second point:

2. Every school is looking for something different. With few exceptions, schools are looking for candidates with a three point something, a thirty something, clinical experience, and something else. Some schools are notoriously territorial, so that a 3.9 40T and a letter of recommendation from Jesus won't get you through the doors for an interview unless you happen to be from that state, or from a certain school, or from a certain type of school. If a school is looking to produce researchers and you have no research experience, it will not matter that your MCAT is twelve points above their average or that you spent seven years working in their hospital.

My advice is if you are in school, talk to your premed advisor and ask him or her which schools tend to take students from your school. You may think that with your high scores and excellent transcript that you can neglect their advice, but premed advisors know exactly where you stand a chance. Mine were wrong about one school (the one I plan to attend) and right about just about every other place... I could have saved a lot of money listening to them. Remember, schools show biases (BU and GW seem to like people from my UG school whereas other institutions wouldn't even interview a candidate from my school if that candidate cured AIDS). Find out where you have an upperhand and apply there... and then apply to some reach schools just to prove your premed advisor wrong :)

But above all, apply where YOU want to apply because this process is as predictable as a crap shoot.
 

cather

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I don't think any school is a sure thing but here are some schools that I think would be good for 3.5, 30 MCAT: George Washington, Finch, New York Medical College, and check with your individual state schools. Also look at class sizes. Your odds are better at schools with large class sizes.

I'm not sure about Jefferson - I think you would need higher numbers but they do take a lot of people because they have a big class size.
 

funkless

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Originally posted by Buckeye(OH)

3.23 (one D and one F, both of which were retaken)
MCAT: 28 (8-8-12)
Graduate GPA: 4.0

Good ECs, good LOR's, publications etc.

Adrian
Yikes. Better turn those "Good ECs" into "Excellent ECs."

I probably wouldn't bother applying to private schools unless you have some compelling info that we don't know.


--Funkless
 

johnnyMD

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I'd be interested in hearing more anecdotal evidence on these apparent 'sterotypes/trends' that each med school looks for.

specifically -
MSSM
Einstein
NYU
UC schools
USC
UChicago
N'Western


it seems like places like BU, Tufts, GWU, Drew, do not accept 3.8+ 35+ applicants - probably cuz they dunwanna be a safety net?
 

Super Rob

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Originally posted by johnnyMD
it seems like places like BU, Tufts, GWU, Drew, do not accept 3.8+ 35+ applicants - probably cuz they dunwanna be a safety net?
BU does
 

JohnHolmes

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Would BU offer a "reasonable chance of acceptance" or interview for those with 3.4/5 28/9 MCAT out of state ... assume they are involved and all that fun stuff.

CCW
 

exmike

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Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
Would BU offer a "reasonable chance of acceptance" or interview for those with 3.4/5 28/9 MCAT out of state ... assume they are involved and all that fun stuff.

CCW
I vot no for BU. They dont have many spots. So many are taken up by their MMS students. Its not a "reasonable" school for people we/ below avg stats.

I'd vote for NYMC, Drexel, SLU, Finch to the others.
 
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johnnyMD

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Originally posted by exmike
I vot no for BU. They dont have many spots. So many are taken up by their MMS students. Its not a "reasonable" school for people we/ below avg stats.

I'd vote for NYMC, Drexel, SLU, Finch to the others.
I vote yes for BU. i think their average stats are like a 3.5 30. most treat BU as a safety school (hence the billion+ applications). if u can convince them you're genuine about them, u got a shot
 

exmike

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Originally posted by johnnyMD
I vote yes for BU. i think their average stats are like a 3.5 30. most treat BU as a safety school (hence the billion+ applications). if u can convince them you're genuine about them, u got a shot
yeah, shot me down, one of the first. but thats just one person i guess. Its the impression i get from talking to several people though.
 

exmike

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I would also add USUHS. I think they are around a 3.43/28

Of course they own you for 7 years, but it IS med school and you get paid to got.
 

secretmiss

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I would say no for UMDNJ out of state...unless URM. They want mostly NJ residents, and believe me there are enough of us to go around. I have a friend who used to be a NJ resident, lived 5 minutes from New Brunswick, but parents moved during college. She applied to UMDNJ- RWJ with better stats than those from UVa and didn't even get an interview.
 

meanderson

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If you have average stats the most important thing you can do is try to tailor your application to your state school. Yes, schools like Finch, NYMC, etc are reasonable bets for someone with a 3.5/28, but an Indiana resident with those numbers still has a 10x greater chance of getting into Indiana University school of medicine than Finch.......just due to applicant volume and state pref. alone. Now of course this will vary from state to state, but for most states I can't emphasize how important it is to write your essays and fill out your amcas to try to fit what you think the schools that give state pref. to residents from your state want......
 

JohnHolmes

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Originally posted by meanderson
If you have average stats the most important thing you can do is try to tailor your application to your state school. Yes, schools like Finch, NYMC, etc are reasonable bets for someone with a 3.5/28, but an Indiana resident with those numbers still has a 10x greater chance of getting into Indiana University school of medicine than Finch.......just due to applicant volume and state pref. alone. Now of course this will vary from state to state, but for most states I can't emphasize how important it is to write your essays and fill out your amcas to try to fit what you think the schools that give state pref. to residents from your state want......
Sound advice, sweet. Don't overlook the in state institutions, absolutely. Even you cali residents.

CCW
 

traumamonkey

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my impression of BU is that they don't look too closely at out of staters (despite the private school price tag) they really like the bahston natives.
i could be wrong, but...not even an interview??!!
 

bigdan

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I think Super Rob's post speaks volumes.
Your premed advisor may be the best resource you have (although this may not be true, too) in that he/she can give you the anecdotal advice on where students from your school with your grades, MCAT, and ECs have historically gotten in.
I went to speak with my Medical School of choice, SUNY Upstate. I asked about filling some missing prereqs at various colleges in my area, but SUNY identified one school (SUNY Binghamton) as the place to take my courses, because SUNY Upstate knows what SUNY Bing. students have learned, how they perform in medical school, what kinds of things the premeds do, etc. In fact, SUNY Upstate accepts more students from SUNY Binghamton than any other school in the USA.
Shoot for the stars, but the premed advisor may be able to give you some info for secure footing.

dc
 

Wahooali

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You're awesome Coops. :clap: There are so many of us out there that really need this kind of reassurance right now, I know from personal experience. Thank you all (and especially you Coops) so much for taking the time to give your input. :)
 

jedirampage

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Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
Here are some schools I have seen in a number of posts that seem to be pretty popular:

NYMC
Finch
George Washington
Georgetown

.....wanna add to the list? :)
I think GW might be a little TOO popular to be considered. Seeing as almost a third of all MD applicants apply there, it is easier for decent-to-good applicants to slip through the cracks there. Just something to consider.
 

Jason110

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My Stats:

3.65 GPA in Biomedical Engineering at a Top 10 School
30Q MCAT (V/B/P/W: 9/10/11/Q)
Research experience in radiology. Soon to be published papers.
OH Resident

What are some "safety schools" for me? I have a lot of research experience, but many "safety schools" are primary care oriented, and I feel as though I may not have enough clinical experience to get through their doors. Ideas? Suggestions on where to apply?

Jason
 

JohnHolmes

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OK,

I went thru the AMSAR last night (2004-2005, which is "old" right now, but whatever) and I am going to try to make an ammended list:

1. UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School (I know someone said not to, but I know some people from VA who were 28/29 and 3.4 and got in out of state, two ppl actually)

2. George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences; Washington, DC

3. Georgetown University School of Medicine; Washington, DC

4. *Howard University College of Medicine*; Washington DC (please note, that Howard has a specific mission in mind, so I put an asterick by this one, think whether this mission matches your profile before applying)

5. University of Miami School of Medicine; Miami, FL (avg MCAT 9.3 ... just be careful, this would apply mostly to FL residents ...)

6. Finch University of Health Sciences/Chicago Medical School; North Chicago, IL

7. Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine; Maywood, IL

8. University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine (UIC); Chicago, IL

9. *Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences F Edward Hebert School of Medicine; Bethesda, MD

10. Boston University School of Medicine; Boston, MA

11. (Wayne State University School of Medicine); Detroit, MI (Not so sure that this fits the goal of this thread, but it may)

12. University of Minnesota Medical School--Minneapolis, MN (They interview 1/3 of out of state applicants, which is good)

13. Saint Louis University School of Medicine; St Louis, MO

14. Albany Medical College; Albany, NY (does not give preference to in-state applicants)

15. New York Medical College; Valhalla, NY

16. Medical College of Ohio; Toledo, OH

17. University of Cincinnati College of Medicine; Cincinnati, OH

18. Drexel University College of Medicine (MCP); Philadelphia, PA

19. Jefferson Medical College of Thomas Jefferson University; Philadelphia, PA

20. Temple University School of Medicine; Philadelphia, PA

21. Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine; Hershey, PA

22. *Meharry Medical College School of Medicine*; Nashville, TN (once again, read the remarks for Howard, as it applies to Meharry too)

23. University of Vermont College of Medicine; Burlington, VT

24. Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine; Richmond, VA (my home) [Known as MCV]

25. Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee, WI

Feel free to make suggestions of things to add or strike from this list. This is a work in progress.

CCW
 

secretmiss

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To clarify:

You asked about UMDNJ-RWJ, not UMDNJ-NJMS

They are two different schools and my comment was only directed towards UMDNJ-RWJ. I don't know about UMDNJ-NJMS. Most people from NJ, not all but most, look much more favorably on RWJ. I think in general it's a more competitive school.
 

JohnHolmes

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Originally posted by secretmiss
To clarify:

You asked about UMDNJ-RWJ, not UMDNJ-NJMS

They are two different schools and my comment was only directed towards UMDNJ-RWJ. I don't know about UMDNJ-NJMS. Most people from NJ, not all but most, look much more favorably on RWJ. I think in general it's a more competitive school.

Agreed. I didn't include RWJ because the avg stats are higher.

CCW
 

hakksar

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What do you think about adding Rush? I haven't really researched it but it seems that if Loyola is on the list then Rush should be as well
 

JohnHolmes

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I thought about it.

This is an EXTREMELY arbitrary list, but you also have to understand that the nature of making a list like this is very arbitrary. I made some calls based on how I felt at that particular moment (was I having gaseous discomfort while I was lying in bed after eating burritos at that particular point in time) last night. Good question ... anyone wanna comment on the list?

CCW
 
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