SCPM below the national average for NBPME part 1

[pipetman]

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i heard the national average was 81%; for the first time in years scpm wasn't above the national average. so what school was the top this year?

 

[347932]

Ummm their pass rate was 88% this year. Where did you hear they fell below 81%? Secondly I thought I read the national average was 78%.

Did you really have to start a thread about SCPM and pass off false information?

Seriously...

 

[dtrack22]

It's an honest question. Might not need Scholl in the subject line and probably could have just been a PM to a current Scholl student.

Only 1 program actually lists ALL enrollment statistics and "first time" pass rates on its website.

Too bad the NBPME website is so useless. I still don't get what is so hard about making this info public. Until you can get your hands on the NBPME report then all of the pass rate stuff is hearsay...unless you have a link or an email then your word is no better or worse than pipetman's.

 

[air bud]

It's an honest question. Might not need Scholl in the subject line and probably could have just been a PM to a current Scholl student.

Only 1 program actually lists ALL enrollment statistics and "first time" pass rates on its website.

Too bad the NBPME website is so useless. I still don't get what is so hard about making this info public. Until you can get your hands on the NBPME report then all of the pass rate stuff is hearsay...unless you have a link or an email then your word is no better or worse than pipetman's.

Maybe you should ask the OCPM dean about the stats....oh, thats right...

 

[Paulywog]

I have seen the official scores for Barry. Rounding up to the nearest percent, we had a 90% pass rate. But one of the subject scores was abysmal. If I remember right from previous forums, AZ was 100% and NY 99%. So who was in the 70% range? What do you think is the major reason for board pass rates is? Is it the schools curriculum/professors, quality of students enrolled, or something else?

 

[air bud]

I have seen the official scores for Barry. Rounding up to the nearest percent, we had a 90% pass rate. But one of the subject scores was abysmal. If I remember right from previous forums, AZ was 100% and NY 99%. So who was in the 70% range? What do you think is the major reason for board pass rates is? Is it the schools curriculum/professors, quality of students enrolled, or something else?

We had an adjunct professor the other day (DO) say she was on a board that is working on standardized curriculum changes for all schools. Maybe this will help.
Also, one thing that has never been answered was whether or not ALL NYCPM students sat for the boards in June. Dont you think 77 seems low for a NYCPM class from a few years ago, even with attrition?
I think it has to be school curriculum/professors. There really isnt that much of difference entrance stats wise between schools, regardless of what people on here may want to think. But look at some schools curriculum? Would you rather take lower-limb 1st year or at the end of 2nd year right before boards?

 

[Feli]

... NY 99%...

No way in hell. It's probably DMU you're thinking of at 99%. If it was NY, then good for them... probably their highest ever and first time they were significantly over national avg in a long time.

AZ and DMU are usually near 100%, Scholl not far behind, Temple/Barry/CCPM somewhere near the avg, and Ohio + NY usually at the bottom end. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter a whole lot. Some of the schools do take a lot of less talented students to fill big classes and cash more tuition checks, and many of those same schools would rather pass them along (to keep the cash registers dinging) than fail them out of the program, as they probably should be. As long as you are talented, apply yourself, and are hardworking, you will do well at any of the schools... but some definitely do prep you better for clerkships and residency than others.

 

[Feli]

...I think it has to be school curriculum/professors. There really isnt that much of difference entrance stats wise between schools...

You are trusting the schools' statistics. The same schools that won't publish their NBPME pass rates probably inflate their gpa/mcat averages. I don't see anything here that breaks gpa/mcat of matriculants down by school...
http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/stats_mar.asp

Yes, some pod programs/profs are probably better than others, but they all have their strong and weak points (basic sciences, clin sciences, clinic exp, clerkship sched, journal reading, research, faculty:student time, etc). When it comes to boards, the textbooks were basically the same (netter anat, robbins path, etc etc) for every school and the anatomy doesn't change... a fair amount of the responsibility has to go to the people holding the pencil (or keyboard nowadays).

 

[air bud]

No way in hell

sig savant in 3, 2, 1....

Even though the anatomy is the same and all the mechanisms are the same, that doesnt necessarily equalize everything. I have bought Netters and maybe one other book so far after 1.25 years. I dont think I will buy anymore books before boards, besides maybe review stuff. So we are only going by teachers material. Also, when you have visiting professors, they dont use books, but do more clinical stuff. Again, there has to be a reason why some school(s) has lower limb first year, and other schools have it 2nd year. This also happens with other classes. So why? Can anybody from ohio explain the rationale for LLA first year?
why do some schools have 30 or 40 hours of class a week and some schools barely have 20?
Why do some schools fit everything in 2 years, while some take 2.5 years?
Why do some schools have a really busy schedule RIGHT before boards?

dont get me wrong though, it absolutely still falls on the students. But these are things that students need to think about when deciding on which school to attend.
It is just like at the residency level. Oh wow, this program is awesome, you get to see tons of different things and you have really famous attendings. But wait, you never get to pick up a scalpel. Or hey, this program is neato, you see trauma all day long. But wait, you never spend any time in clinic and dont get good at doing the bread and butter things that 95+% of most pods will be doing.

 

[longstech]

Can anybody from ohio explain the rationale for LLA first year?
[/QUOTE]

I don't know if I can give you a 'rationale' for it from the faculty's perspective, however I know that it did help to the have the anatomical knowledge when I took classes like biomechanics, pod med and radiology the following semesters. I think it would be more difficult to understand the material without having seen the anatomy and learned it previously. I do think that a "refresher" course of some type should be offered in the spring semester prior to boards, perhaps like one unit, maybe an hour a week of class or something.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I don't know if I can give you a 'rationale' for it from the faculty's perspective, however I know that it did help to the have the anatomical knowledge when I took classes like biomechanics, pod med and radiology the following semesters. I think it would be more difficult to understand the material without having seen the anatomy and learned it previously. I do think that a "refresher" course of some type should be offered in the spring semester prior to boards, perhaps like one unit, maybe an hour a week of class or something.

We have our LEA right at the start of the 2nd year, a full year before boards. I think it helped make sense out of some of the other classes. Having it a year before boards means that we had to spend a portion of our studying time for boards dedicated to LEA, when schools that had LEA right before boards maybe didn't have to spend as much time studying for it. In the end, I am not sure that it matters. If you get it and learn it when you take it, even if you have to brush up on it when you take boards, you should be fine. I do understand the logic of it from the schools point of view that putting the subject that is the highest weighted on boards right before the board exams makes sense. But like I said, I don't know that it matters (at least I don't think that it has for us).

 

[Paulywog]

We also have Lower Anatomy the first year at Barry. It is the Spring Semester. We also take another Lower Extremity course in the Spring semester of our 2nd year. I agree having lower anatomy in the first year helped prepare us for the other classes we took. This last year was the first time we had the 2nd Lower Anatomy right before the boards (previously taken in the summer between years 1 and 2. They tried it out and our Lower Anatomy board scores were higher.
New York posted their 99% pass rate on their website as soon as they found out.
I wish we could see our board scores. It would be nice to for the deans to see our individual boards scores too to see if those that dont pass are those that are in the bottom 20% of the class and to do other statistical analysis.
The teachers that are "hard" are the subjects that our school did well on the boards. The way teachers teach and test their students does play a role in how hard they have to study and learn the material. If I can put less effort into one class and get an A, I will spend more time on the "harder" course to get a better grade. So the teacher does have a huge role in determining our pass rate for that subject. Ultimately it is the student taking the boards, like Feli said. I hated those "hard" teachers but those were the subjects I felt better prepared for.
Air bud is right about the comments on residency. I am currently looking at externships to apply to for the October 15th application date. My mind keeps changing weekly on where to go. I keep asking those that attended the programs for insight and I have read many reviews about the programs I am interested in. Just like choosing a Pod school, some places fit you better than others. Just going off of the reputation is not the best way.

 

[mildoc2016]

another reason for lower extremity anatomy second semester of first year at ocpm is that students @ocpm begin to rotate within the clinic during their second year .... it would not make sense for said students to even have patient interaction if they did not understand the anatomy ...

 

[air bud]

another reason for lower extremity anatomy second semester of first year at ocpm is that students @ocpm begin to rotate within the clinic during their second year .... it would not make sense for said students to even have patient interaction if they did not understand the anatomy ...

seems like a good reason.

 

[347932]

i'm still waiting for the source that pipetman referred to when he decided to create this awesome thread.

lol

 

[Sig Savant]

blah blah blah NYCPM 98.7% first time pass rate and yes the class size is 77 blah blah blah

Hard to believe that change can occur, isn't it?

Just because a school is on top today does not mean it will be one of the better ones in a few years. Schools must be progressive! NY has changed! And it will be proven again in next year's scores.

Sorry to disappoint air bud, I was studying for finals. Third semester ends Oct 18!

 

[pipetman]

yo, i wasn't trying to start a war. i have friends who are second year students who told me they get emails saying the stats were the worst they've had, and the new second years better step up their game. the numbers schools tell students vs what they say in recruitment may be different. so what? maybe my friends were lying, im just surprised if it were /is true. its a good school. chillax, people.

 

[damhsoir]

Maybe that e-mail is total crap and they are just trying to motivate the current P2s to break back into the 90% passing range.

I'm a P2 at Scholl and did NOT receive a "you suck at life" email from the admin.

 

[dyk343]

Compared to all of the other podiatry schools Scholl seems to get dumped on the most which is kind of ridiculous.

I am curious as to why scholl students keep posting negative things about their school. This is the second thread I've seen now. However, Scholl is not alone. I can think of 2 other schools that take a beating on SDN. But really... Its SDN. I think a large percentage of the posters are from about 3 of the 9 schools. There are a lot biases here. A lot of the bashing is all macho stuff. My school is better than yours and thats just the way it is . Even you, in this current post, have taken on this macho role.

And let me assure you. My pod school is not the best but my undergraduate certainly is 🙂

The schools are all accredited and therefore can give you what you need to graduate and pass boards.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Compared to all of the other podiatry schools Scholl seems to get dumped on the most which is kind of ridiculous.

There is no way Scholl gets crapped on more than Barry and NYCPM. People in this thread dumped on NY which is started out talking about Scholl.

(And I met a 4th year Scholl the other day and she was amazing 🙂)

 

[UNMorBUST]

i have friends who are second year students who told me they get emails saying the stats were the worst they've had, and the new second years better step up their game.

I'm a P2 at Scholl and did NOT receive a "you suck at life" email from the admin.

Interesting.

 

[347932]

Every College has their share of good and bad students. The bad ones tend to complain that the school sucks. The good ones take the school at face value, learn what they can from the faculty and move on to residency.

Every school has its pluses and minuses. I've met superior students from all the schools and just as many, ummmm, not so superior students from all the schools. Sometimes I wonder if some of these poor students went to the same classes with the exceptional ones.

The only person you have to compete with is yourself. Who cares what the national average is. Get the most from your education. You will succeed regardless of the school you are in with that attitude.

 

[AGDPM]

Every College has their share of good and bad students. The bad ones tend to complain that the school sucks. The good ones take the school at face value, learn what they can from the faculty and move on to residency.

Every school has its pluses and minuses. I've met superior students from all the schools and just as many, ummmm, not so superior students from all the schools. Sometimes I wonder if some of these poor students went to the same classes with the exceptional ones.

The only person you have to compete with is yourself. Who cares what the national average is. Get the most from your education. You will succeed regardless of the school you are in with that attitude.

👍

 

[PodChick]

The portions of this thread that reek of ego driven comments and reasoning are a waste of cyberspace. Who cares if one school's pass rate is higher than the next, you can not make an educational statement about a school's ranking or quality of education as if you were an authority and fully understand the statistical significance of trends and multifactorial causes of outcome. From my understanding, we are all students of podiatric medicine and should just focus on that and not waste brain space on what your neighbor is doing. There is always someone smarter and brighter than you so there is no use in trying to feed a short ego by announcing your class or school or profession as an extension of your self. It's like raised monster trucks and the short guys that drive them, just bc you have a bigger, better car does not mean you are bigger and better....at all.

With all the time wasted on useless threads like this, you could be bettering yourself. Bc when you are out in residency or clerkships, you're representing the competency of yourself first and foremost. This is the first time posting after entering pod school after 3 years and its sad to find the same ego driven behavior in some of these threads. 😎

Play nice.

 

[itswiggles]

- Pod Chick just laid down the law

 

[PodAwesome]

SCPM board pass rates for 2010 were as follows:

Part 1
SCPM: 87
Nat Ave: 88

Part 2
SCPM: 90
Nat Ave: 83

 

[pipetman]

SCPM board pass rates for 2010 were as follows:

Part 1
SCPM: 87
Nat Ave: 88

Part 2
SCPM: 90
Nat Ave: 83

cheers for clearing that up..even if it is an old thread

 

[PodAwesome]

Over a year late! Haha. Sorry. I've been busy. Hope all is well for you.