Scutwork

[Substance]

Because I overheard M3s on their first rotation ever complaining that they aren't even getting to write progress notes, suggested they just write them on their own, and even offered to read them?

You may be right though if making M3s write progress notes and see patients makes them hate third year...

You did a good thing by offering to give the students a bit of responsibility. Lots of people would rather have something to do than sit around twiddling their thumbs. But it was still a rubber-stamp rather than a substantial thing due to the nature of the service you were on.

But that other guy who didn't want to do it didn't deserve the criticism that you though he did. He made a good point about it generally being a useless exercise that had no bearing on patient care, and that he would get more value out of studying for the shelf(which may be true for him).

As a resident I am not there to give medical students offers they can't refuse. I'm there to teach them and help them learn a bit about actual medicine while they're busy sucking up to get ahead.

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[KnuxNole]

I would have agreed with the "idiot" student...especially if it was pointless.

If it was not pointless, of course not.

 

[Dirt]

If you consider carrying patients on your clinical rotations, and by that I mean seeing them each morning and writing a progress note, worthless, pointless or a waste of your time, then what pray tell is worth your time?

 

[turkeyjerky]

If you consider carrying patients on your clinical rotations, and by that I mean seeing them each morning and writing a progress note, worthless, pointless or a waste of your time, then what pray tell is worth your time?

You're trying to change the conversation to make it more favorable for your argument. What I am saying is that writing fake progress notes for someone a few months ahead of you in training is not worth anyone's time.

Don't try to make this a referendum on the utility of medical school. This is about you being a douche to someone just cause he didn't thank you for suggesting he do pointless busywork to further your own ego.

 

[KnuxNole]

Yeah...thankfully the 4th years I met acted more normal, and left WAY earlier than us in rotations to go "interview prep"

I do agree though, the education value is nil for fake notes, I learned little from doing fake notes, but thankfully I mainly did REAL notes cause they were part of the task for the few patients that were assigned to us by the attending. Seeing patients IS educational and presenting the history.

But for most people, writing FAKE notes is pointless, cause it doesnt matter, you copy what the resident says, etc. Basically, it wastes time from studying and such...something WAY more useful for a student lol

 

[Dirt]

You're trying to change the conversation to make it more favorable for your argument. What I am saying is that writing fake progress notes for someone a few months ahead of you in training is not worth anyone's time.

I never changed the conversation.

Med student in question was happy that he didn't have to write real notes and see real patients before I ever got involved. He was one of those people who felt that everything that doesn't directly relate to the shelf is scut.

Your math also sucks, since the difference between M3 and M4 is a year. And frankly, save for PGY1 to PGY2, there is probably no bigger difference made by a year in all of medical training.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I have to respectfully disagree with any resident who claims that filling out paperwork is a critical part of a student's learning process. The problem with paperwork is that it differs from institution to institution. So if I get an exact handle of how to call a consult, and write discharge documents, and do other similar administrative tasks for patients in Hospital X, if I do residency in Hospital Y that is not transferrable bc the system will be different there. Now I don't mind calling consults on my own patients, bc this is the only way to guarantee that the consulting service will get back to me and that I will understand their plan and take better care of my patients. But paperwork? If I had all the clinical knowledge I needed to take care of my patients I'd be fine with doing paperwork, but if I'm spending all this time doing paperwork and learning proportionately very little from you about how to make medical decisions about patients, that's not cool. Also, anything that can be done by someone without medical training should be done by someone without medical training. Therefore, this culture of having interns and therefore medical students spending time making followup appointments and doing other similar tasks is ridiculous. Especially with the new work hour restrictions, learning time is precious.

 

[KnuxNole]

that is true, a M4 really knows very little, so I guess a year means nothing. Especially cause you learn more from studying for your shelves as a 3rd year, lol

 

[Dirt]

that is true, a M4 really knows very little, so I guess a year means nothing. Especially cause you learn more from studying for your shelves as a 3rd year, lol

Yeah and all your base or something like that.

 

[turkeyjerky]

I never changed the conversation.

Med student in question was happy that he didn't have to write real notes and see real patients before I ever got involved. He was one of those people who felt that everything that doesn't directly relate to the shelf is scut.

Your math also sucks, since the difference between M3 and M4 is a year. And frankly, save for PGY1 to PGY2, there is probably no bigger difference made by a year in all of medical training.

There you go again. Dude, writing practice notes for a 4th year is not "writing real notes". I don't why you think writing notes is such an educational activity--it's not. And it's not that hard either, plus most people who think they write good notes don't.

And yeah, there's not as much difference between a 3rd year and a 4th year as you'd like to believe. Save for a couple of months during the summer to get used to the wards, I don't think there's much difference at all in terms of actual functioning.

 

[C5toC9]

do notes from a sub-i count at your institution?

 

[VenusinFurs]

I am actually not at all clear how student documentation works at all. The ER intern rotating through labor and delivery with me had us write notes on all the patients receiving mag, and then he'd just see them when he got the chance and write "seen and agree" after our notes (we're third years) but I get the sense that that's not exactly kosher.

Writing notes for practice is good learning if you have someone critiquing them. If you don't then it's sort of useless because you have no idea if you are doing it right. I haven't put in a single IV yet and I really need to practice. Putting in Foleys is fun, imo.

 

[Brewmeister]

Scut/Abuse:

"Go to medical records and get this discharge summary." (Gets discharge summary) "Oh, whoops, I forgot I need this summary too. Go get it."

"My printer isn't working. Your job is to set it up."

"You're going to come help me out." Proceeds to drive myself and NP student to house to move lawn furniture around.

 

[dukerad]

Wait, he was an idiot cause he didn't want to do pointless busywork and have someone six months ahead of him in training (w/ no power over him whatsoever) give him feedback on it? Not sure if serious...


The educational value of writing notes is vastly overrated, imho.

Judas Priest! You better lose the attitude and learn what medicine is about fast sweetheart, or you will spend your life as a douche student, douchebag resident, and dangerous douche attending. As for the rest of you, just get the goddamn job done, and Pay attention while You,re at it. Maybe your not as good at taking vitals as you think you are. Maybe the blood has to get to the freaking lab. And some of you I wouldn't trust to get my coffee order right!

 

[AlexMorph]

Judas Priest! You better lose the attitude and learn what medicine is about fast sweetheart, or you will spend your life as a douche student, douchebag resident, and dangerous douche attending. As for the rest of you, just get the goddamn job done, and Pay attention while You,re at it. Maybe your not as good at taking vitals as you think you are. Maybe the blood has to get to the freaking lab. And some of you I wouldn't trust to get my coffee order right!

2/10...not impressed

 

[KnuxNole]

Judas Priest! You better lose the attitude and learn what medicine is about fast sweetheart, or you will spend your life as a douche student, douchebag resident, and dangerous douche attending. As for the rest of you, just get the goddamn job done, and Pay attention while You,re at it. Maybe your not as good at taking vitals as you think you are. Maybe the blood has to get to the freaking lab. And some of you I wouldn't trust to get my coffee order right!

I'd probably laugh in your uggo face if you were my resident.

Or screw up the tasks on purpose to mess with ya, which can be entertaining

 

[turkeyjerky]

Judas Priest! You better lose the attitude and learn what medicine is about fast sweetheart, or you will spend your life as a douche student, douchebag resident, and dangerous douche attending. As for the rest of you, just get the goddamn job done, and Pay attention while You,re at it. Maybe your not as good at taking vitals as you think you are. Maybe the blood has to get to the freaking lab. And some of you I wouldn't trust to get my coffee order right!

Go f:ck yourself

 

[sineapse]

I have to say, here in the UK, most of our day is spent doing scut. It's awful. We have no patient responsibilities, ever. Even as a 5th year. All we do is shadow doctors, which is so awful.

Like on the ward round, our job as med students is to hold open vitals charts so the intern can read them off and draw curtains. You know you are being trusted when you are allowed to write the daily SOAP in the notes.

Printing stuff, check. Writing discharge summaries, check. Filling in request forms. Running stuff to the lab, check. Bloods and IVs are seen as privileges and if there are multiple students on a team, there's usually a debate on will get to do them

Can't wait to get out.

 

[RySerr21]

There you go again. Dude, writing practice notes for a 4th year is not "writing real notes". I don't why you think writing notes is such an educational activity--it's not. And it's not that hard either, plus most people who think they write good notes don't.

And yeah, there's not as much difference between a 3rd year and a 4th year as you'd like to believe. Save for a couple of months during the summer to get used to the wards, I don't think there's much difference at all in terms of actual functioning.

writing a note can be an educational experience in so far as you put in effort in formulating a good assessment and plan. And if you get feedback on that assesment and plan then it can be even more useful (I'm not commenting on whether its beneficial for a 4th year to give advice to a 3rd year, im just speaking in general. I want no part of that argument). Also, if anythign it might help you organize your thoughts for presenting on rounds. That being said, If the patient is stable every day and not changing, then yes repeating the same note over and over is a waste (especially if its hand written). I know that my attending on Medicine made us right progress notes and made it a point to give us feedback on the A/Ps and it was pretty helpful (again, don't care about the 4th year/3rd year argument, so don't say 'well an attending is different than a 4th year.' I agree, and also dont care!).

lastly, I really hope you see a difference in your knowledge base/abilities/confidnece comparing day 1 of third year and day 1 of 4th year. I would even say its not so much 3rd year as it was my medicine rotation. Me before my medicine rotation compared to after my medicine rotation is night and day.

 

[dukerad]

Go f:ck yourself

Pithy. I think I will. I wouldn't trust you to get that right either.

Just so you know, I'm the attending that will let an M4 that has proven their mettle in every way get arterial access, run an atherectomy catheter, or get hands on a lung bx or core bx needle. Nobody has to get my coffee, or write my notes. That,s hyperbole. For effect. Get it? What I'm trying to tell you is that ****ty attitude reeks from a mile out, and everyone notices it. It will and perhaps already has inhibited your shot at real excellence in this field. If you don't buy into the " you miss half the good cases" argument against every other call, at least in principle, and can't manage to at least rationalize why your trip to med records may actually be the team play and in the patient,s interest, then you may be a perfectly adequate physician, but never more. You won't be the one patients or colleagues seek out. Attitude has as much to do with the excellence we need as innate skill, or experience.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

writing a note can be an educational experience in so far as you put in effort in formulating a good assessment and plan. And if you get feedback on that assesment and plan then it can be even more useful (I'm not commenting on whether its beneficial for a 4th year to give advice to a 3rd year, im just speaking in general. I want no part of that argument). Also, if anythign it might help you organize your thoughts for presenting on rounds.

This.

The vast majority of third year students I've worked with cannot develop and articulate a reasonable plan of care for a surgical patient. Which is fine, I don't expect them to jump in on day one knowing how to. But until they can, note writing is absolutely an educational exercise.

 

[Top Gun]

Writing progress notes on one or two patients each day can actually be potentially educational. You will have the chance to gain practice in formulating an assessment and plan based on your findings. If you do progress notes on the same patients each day, it will allow you to follow them throughout their hospital course. You will become more familiar with them. If you get appropriate feedback on your notes, doing progress notes actuallly is pretty worthwhile in terms of your learning.

And for some of you who saying writing notes is completely pointless, good luck on July 1 of your intern year when you have to do 12 progress notes, and your attendings and seniors expect you to know how to do them perfectly.

 

[Substance]

Pithy. I think I will. I wouldn't trust you to get that right either.

Just so you know, I'm the attending that will let an M4 that has proven their mettle in every way get arterial access, run an atherectomy catheter, or get hands on a lung bx or core bx needle. Nobody has to get my coffee, or write my notes. That,s hyperbole. For effect. Get it? What I'm trying to tell you is that ****ty attitude reeks from a mile out, and everyone notices it. It will and perhaps already has inhibited your shot at real excellence in this field. If you don't buy into the " you miss half the good cases" argument against every other call, at least in principle, and can't manage to at least rationalize why your trip to med records may actually be the team play and in the patient,s interest, then you may be a perfectly adequate physician, but never more. You won't be the one patients or colleagues seek out. Attitude has as much to do with the excellence we need as innate skill, or experience.

There comes a limit to what a physician or medical student should be expected to do. As a resident, and future attending, I will never expect the medical student to put the "team" ahead of the patient. For them, the obligations are to the patient first, to their own learning second, and to the team last. Running to health records, as your example has stated, is a worthless endeavor for anyone who has not been hired by the hospital to do that kind of work. And outside of a stat situation I cannot see why any doctor or medical student would have to play the part of a porter to help their patients.

If anything, I think that instilling an attitude of "you're not above any menial hospital work" in medical students and residents harms our field. This attitude has culminated in a profession of hammerheaded self-serving dimwits who are proud of their 40 hour shifts but don't realize that they are being fleeced by the MBA yuppie hospital admins and politicians. Reimbursements are being cut and work is getting more complicated because we let it happen.

A medical student should learn that some tasks are beneath them. Being the porter is one of them. Being the secretary is another. Then maybe the new generation of physicians will have more confidence at the negotiating table and will know their true worth. If we can't stand up for ourselves, we'll never stand up for our patients.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Pithy. I think I will. I wouldn't trust you to get that right either.

Just so you know, I'm the attending that will let an M4 that has proven their mettle in every way get arterial access, run an atherectomy catheter, or get hands on a lung bx or core bx needle. Nobody has to get my coffee, or write my notes. That,s hyperbole. For effect. Get it? What I'm trying to tell you is that ****ty attitude reeks from a mile out, and everyone notices it. It will and perhaps already has inhibited your shot at real excellence in this field. If you don't buy into the " you miss half the good cases" argument against every other call, at least in principle, and can't manage to at least rationalize why your trip to med records may actually be the team play and in the patient,s interest, then you may be a perfectly adequate physician, but never more. You won't be the one patients or colleagues seek out. Attitude has as much to do with the excellence we need as innate skill, or experience.

I'll start by noting that you entered this conversation calling me a douchebag because I had the gall to criticize someone who wanted a fellow student to be thankful for the opportunity to write bs practice notes.

Then you continue the personal attacks, saying I have a ****ty attitude that reeks a mile out. It's interesting that you know me so well from reading a few posts on a message board. Do I have a ****ty attitude? I'm not sure--I'll admit that my attitude does differ from many of my peers. I do frown on most of the busywork of clinical rotations and I do tend to be more independent than many other students in that I avoid following my residents around like a puppy dog. If this means that I have a ****ty attitude, then so be it--but it hasn't kept me from honoring every single one my core rotations, from being inducted into AOA as a junior, and from being elected into the gold humanism society. Will my ****ty attitude really keep me from any type of excellence? Maybe, but arguing against that is is the fact that I'm smarter than you, and I work harder than you, and I'm a more competitive motherf*cker than you.

 

[KnuxNole]

Relax, he's a radiology attending, they don't even scut med students to begin with!

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Currently a PGY-1... and I try to do a lot of the same here unless I'm over my head busy... then, if a med student wants to take advantage and bail, I let 'em...

When I was an M4, when there was an M3 on service (and they had their pts already assigned by the attending), I would try to be as helpful as possible and give little pearls in terms of the A/P. Discuss the pathophys. This tended to help them out on rounds when presenting and answering questions from the attending.

I'd also tell them if the had questions to come to me if the attending wasn't around. Also, I'd encourage the student to do their notes, orders, etc. Also, IVs/blood draws for THEIR patient if it was something that needed to be done ASAP/STAT. We'd also talk about why certain labs were being ordered, imaging studies, etc. Also, if i was doing a procedure, I always made sure the M3 was there watching and I'd have to go thru the steps (for the attending, but also the student to learn) and then when it came to their patient, they could do the procedure and verbalize as well with the attending and me (if i wasnt busy) present). I didn't push anyone who didn't want to be pushed. If they felt that some of the extra stuff was scut and too much for them, then I'd let them study or read or do whatever until an admission came in (M3s did the admissions and M4s acted like the interns on that rotation). In terms of discharges, we didn't have M3s doing them (but if any of them wanted to do it, we wouldnt say no either). However, I wouldn't call 'em an idiot for not wanting to do the extra stuff.

To each their own, is what I say.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Relax, he's a radiology attending, they don't even scut med students to begin with!

He sure didn't sound like an attending.

 

[RySerr21]

I'll start by noting that you entered this conversation calling me a douchebag because I had the gall to criticize someone who wanted a fellow student to be thankful for the opportunity to write bs practice notes.

Then you continue the personal attacks, saying I have a ****ty attitude that reeks a mile out. It's interesting that you know me so well from reading a few posts on a message board. Do I have a ****ty attitude? I'm not sure--I'll admit that my attitude does differ from many of my peers. I do frown on most of the busywork of clinical rotations and I do tend to be more independent than many other students in that I avoid following my residents around like a puppy dog. If this means that I have a ****ty attitude, then so be it--but it hasn't kept me from honoring every single one my core rotations, from being inducted into AOA as a junior, and from being elected into the gold humanism society. Will my ****ty attitude really keep me from any type of excellence? Maybe, but arguing against that is is the fact that I'm smarter than you, and I work harder than you, and I'm a more competitive motherf*cker than you.

maybe dukerad was quick to call you a douche, but the end of that rant sure makes you sound like one.

 

[turkeyjerky]

maybe dukerad was quick to call you a douche, but the end of that rant sure makes you sound like one.

Yeah, you're prolly right. Oh well, guess his suspicions were confirmed...

 

[RySerr21]

Yeah, you're prolly right. Oh well, guess his suspicions were confirmed...

i didn't say that, i have no idea who you are or what you act like. im just sayin that made you sound like just as big of an ass.

 

[turkeyjerky]

i didn't say that, i have no idea who you are or what you act like. im just sayin that made you sound like just as big of an ass.

No worries--I even agree w/ you. I'd go back and edit it, but that makes me feel kinda dishonest.

 

[copes]

Usually the residents that make you do scut work don't teach you anything. I'm fine doing scut in exchange for some knowledge or useful exeriences. The best ones teach you a lot, let you go eat, and let you go early to study so you're not stuck doing all the BS that you'll have to suffer through once residency starts.

 

[VenusinFurs]

One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

 

[Rendar5]

One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

never useful? usually it's quite useful to know past history, but that's just me.

 

[ussdfiant]

I just wanted to comment on the educational value of daily progress notes, at least on a medicine service. Often times I have an assesment/plan that may have 7-8 problems that I am actively managing (not too difficult in a noncompliant 75 year old demented ESRD pt with sepsis from a HCAP pneumonia who develops an NSTEMI, for example). I would be hard pressed to effectively organize my thinking, as well as relay these thoughts to the floor nurse (who wants to know the plan on their pt but isn't available when I'm rounding), case manager (who has to justify the pt's continued presence in the hospital to their insurance company who wants this all to be treated as an outpt), subspecialists, etc. It also lets me know what the subspecialists thoughts are without having to track them down. Multiply this by the 20 pts I see a day. At a minimium it saves me a ton of pages. The bottom line is that note writing (in Medicine at least) is a skill that must be developed over time and is ESSENTIAL to providing good pt care and continuity of care (when you go off service, or a midlevel is seeing that pt for a day). I STRONGLY recommend not blowing note writing off as scut or of no educational value. Yeah they may not count now, but this is the time when you should be asking your resident/attending for feedback because, as previously mentioned, come July 1 you better know what you're doing!

 

[Depakote]

One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

never useful? usually it's quite useful to know past history, but that's just me.

Agree that they're useful. More often than not, the patient doesn't have the insight into their medical condition that their healthcare providers do. It's very good to know if the condition I'm treating is new v. chronic v. an acute exacerbation of a chronic disease and what assessment's they've had previously so I don't have to start a giant workup from scratch on each of my patients for each of their comorbid conditions.

 

[VenusinFurs]

never useful? usually it's quite useful to know past history, but that's just me.

This would be the case if what you got was an easy to read discharge summary, instead of pages and pages of unremarkable lab results with the (often very brief) history buried somewhere in there.

 

[ZagDoc]

One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

See that was one of my favorite things to do as a med student. The resident never had time to comb over them as thoroughly as I did, and I always found at least a couple things that were unknown or changed treatment (however slightly). It's one of the few times as a med student you may be the only person who knows a specific bit of information that can end up being quite important.

 

[Rendar5]

This would be the case if what you got was an easy to read discharge summary, instead of pages and pages of unremarkable lab results with the (often very brief) history buried somewhere in there.

I just usually ask for the discharge summary and procedure summaries when requesting outside records. just throw the labs out.

 

[chessknt]

I consider waking up at 4 AM to have to get to the hospital to "pre-round" (ie take down vital signs and ins/outs, grand total of 2-3 min of work) on 1 patient who has opted our of any intervention for an intern and resident on a service with 3 patients to be scut. No educational value and it pointlessly cuts my sleep down. I am not even making anyone's job easier because they have to be there anyways and could just as easily pull the values.

 

[45408]

Scut is degrading work normally done by a paid hospital employee instead thrust upon the medical student because the medical student has no grounds for appeal and can fail if he does not comply.

Examples: running blood to the lab, calling pharmacies and booking appointments, taking ward vitals, doing ward IVs, setting up ward ECGs, retraction in the OR, wheeling patients around.

Well, retracting in the OR can go either way. Letting the students retract is a good way to let them get in close to the action. If someone else were doing the retracting, the student would now be standing behind them with no way to see through their back. Now, if an Omni/Bookwalter would do the same/better job, than it is scut work. We have plenty of times/rotations where we have no students in any way, and we get along fine without them, but if they're there...

Now, making a student retract and putting them where they can't see? That's just BS. I had to retract for a vag hyst where I was on the opposite side of the patient's legs and couldn't possibly see anything in any way. It did make it that much more sweet taking the patient back the next day for an open ex lap for bleeding after listening to "Now where's that blood coming from?" during the first case.

Fetching coffee and personal affects etc. is not scut as much as it is a form of abuse.

Word.


I agree with the idea that scut is non-educational tasks that should be performed by someone else. There's value to checking some labs yourself, drawing blood a few times, starting some IVs, placing some NGs/Foleys, but it shouldn't be your job. You're training to be a physician, not a nurse's aide.

I do take time to have the students do things like place a Foley in the OR. I'm right there helping, but they need to have done it a few times.

 

[45408]

I have to respectfully disagree with any resident who claims that filling out paperwork is a critical part of a student's learning process. The problem with paperwork is that it differs from institution to institution. So if I get an exact handle of how to call a consult, and write discharge documents, and do other similar administrative tasks for patients in Hospital X, if I do residency in Hospital Y that is not transferrable bc the system will be different there.

As someone who has rotated through eight hospitals, I can tell you that you're wrong. There is a huge amount of overlap, and every time you learn an additional system, it makes learning another one after that even easier. Do yourself a favor in med school and learn some of the things that people will expect you to know on July 1.

 

[45408]

One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

Um, yeah they are. Turned my neurology consult for seizures into a cardiology consult for the guy's AICD going off for his v-tach

 

[turkeyjerky]

Um, yeah they are. Turned my neurology consult for seizures into a cardiology consult for the guy's AICD going off for his v-tach

Oh, if only they were all that interesting. Come on--you've never had the experience of sitting on the phone for a whole hour trying to get someone at OSH to send over the records, only to be transferred a bunch of nursing notes and a useless transfer summary that only tells you what you already know.

 

[Substance]

Oh, if only they were all that interesting. Come on--you've never had the experience of sitting on the phone for a whole hour trying to get someone at OSH to send over the records, only to be transferred a bunch of nursing notes and a useless transfer summary that only tells you what you already know.

This is why you get the ward clerks to do it. It's not your job as a physician to hunt down records. If you have time to do this, you're not busy enough.

And in regards to hunting down charts:

Originally Posted by VenusinFurs
One of the most annoying bits of scutwork is getting outside records, because they are NEVER that useful in the end.

never useful? usually it's quite useful to know past history, but that's just me.

Having the history is a useful learning opportunity. Hunting down the paperwork is scut.

 

[45408]

Oh, if only they were all that interesting. Come on--you've never had the experience of sitting on the phone for a whole hour trying to get someone at OSH to send over the records, only to be transferred a bunch of nursing notes and a useless transfer summary that only tells you what you already know.

honestly, that was the only time that I was the one calling around and asking. Otherwise I just have the unit clerk do it.

This is why you get the ward clerks to do it. It's not your job as a physician to hunt down records. If you have time to do this, you're not busy enough.

Yep. Which is why the one time I did do it is when I was on a slow consult rotation.

 

[turkeyjerky]

honestly, that was the only time that I was the one calling around and asking. Otherwise I just have the unit clerk do it.


Yep. Which is why the one time I did do it is when I was on a slow consult rotation.

So that explains it then. Obviously you don't Think it's scut if you don't actually do it yourself. I agree that I have no problem asking the HUC to get outside records. One hospital I rotated at, for some reason the clerks didn't do it, so it was on the residents and med students to get them--it was the bane of my existence those months.

But you have to admit that, at least some of the time, they're just not that useful. And that it would be moderately irritating to spend 45 min on the phone just to get some useless nursing notes.

Come on, you're an adult. You can at least admit that, right?

 

[45408]

So that explains it then. Obviously you don't Think it's scut if you don't actually do it yourself. I agree that I have no problem asking the HUC to get outside records. One hospital I rotated at, for some reason the clerks didn't do it, so it was on the residents and med students to get them--it was the bane of my existence those months.

But you have to admit that, at least some of the time, they're just not that useful. And that it would be moderately irritating to spend 45 min on the phone just to get some useless nursing notes.

Come on, you're an adult. You can at least admit that, right?

Isn't it kind of obvious that some times they'll be useful and other times not useful? But at least when you don't get any new major bits of information, you can be a little more sure that you're not missing something huge.

Where I am now though, the vast majority of our patients have at least some records in our system, and many of them literally have their entire lives' records in our system.

 

[Guillemot]

Another annoying thing: residents that wont you leave the team room to go study in a quiet area when nothing is going on because then you wont be around to run scut work if they need it.

 

[Sheldor]

The few times I've been asked to do scut work it's been prefaced by, "I know this is totally scutty but..." and this really helps.

I know residents are super busy and I don't mind helping in "scut" ways as long as they realize that I'm doing it because they are a nice person and it's the right thing to do, not because I'm going to learn something by getting them coffee.