Sears Dental

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blotterspotter

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I'm sorry for the ignorance, but I'd never heard of a dentist's office in a mercantile setting until I heard someone talk about Sears Dental. Do you guys think that might be hte future of dentistry with a dental office in every wal-mart?! If that is the case, I think it will disgrace the profession the way it has in the pharmacy business. Pharmacists are no longer treated as professionals, but rather as clerks.

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I've never heard of them, but I wouldn't put it past some places to try to install one. With that said, my office won't be located in front of the endcap on aisle 9 or past the sporting goods section...
 
blotterspotter said:
I'm sorry for the ignorance, but I'd never heard of a dentist's office in a mercantile setting until I heard someone talk about Sears Dental. Do you guys think that might be hte future of dentistry with a dental office in every wal-mart?! If that is the case, I think it will disgrace the profession the way it has in the pharmacy business. Pharmacists are no longer treated as professionals, but rather as clerks.

what about sears optical? i don't think the eye doc's treated as anything less than a doctor (in my personal experience). Not saying i'm for or against the idea, but just my 2 cents.
 
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angeeeeee said:
what about sears optical? i don't think the eye doc's treated as anything less than a doctor (in my personal experience). Not saying i'm for or against the idea, but just my 2 cents.

Well if they were MD's of ophtolmology they wouldnt be in the sears. The guys in sears are Optometrists and the fact that you can find one in every mall in america now is what made that profession much much worse off.

As a group of dental and predental students we should vow to never accept any ridiculous positions at such disgraceful venues. This cheapens the profession and hurts the U.S. health care system.
 
I'm glad you guys agree with me cuz as a graduating pharmacist (this year) and a dental student in september of this year, I have been very disappointed by what has become of pharmacy and will take YEARS until it makes the gains it has lost. I'll definetly be dead by then. I agree that MD's would never accept that, and it's OD's unforunately that end up at the wal-Marts of the world. It has cheapened their profession as well. Just go over to the MD forums and check out their critism of optometrists. Many of them don't consider them real doctors. It's really sad.
 
blotterspotter said:
I'm glad you guys agree with me cuz as a graduating pharmacist (this year) and a dental student in september of this year, I have been very disappointed by what has become of pharmacy and will take YEARS until it makes the gains it has lost. I'll definetly be dead by then. I agree that MD's would never accept that, and it's OD's unforunately that end up at the wal-Marts of the world. It has cheapened their profession as well. Just go over to the MD forums and check out their critism of optometrists. Many of them don't consider them real doctors. It's really sad.

And I'm sure you see the same people in this MD forum saying that dentists aren't real doctors either? Are you overlooking it?
 
1FutureDDS said:
And I'm sure you see the same people in this MD forum saying that dentists aren't real doctors either? Are you overlooking it?

I'm sorry, but huh?
 
Here in Ohio there was an ad for Sears dental clinics a couple of months ago offering crowns for $600. While they may be run by a seperate company they still use the "Sears" logo.
 
blotterspotter said:
I'm sorry for the ignorance, but I'd never heard of a dentist's office in a mercantile setting until I heard someone talk about Sears Dental. Do you guys think that might be hte future of dentistry with a dental office in every wal-mart?! If that is the case, I think it will disgrace the profession the way it has in the pharmacy business. Pharmacists are no longer treated as professionals, but rather as clerks.

Hello,

It seems that having dental offices in Walmart does cheapen the profession but not for optometry or pharmacy in my opinion. That is because optometry and pharmacy deals with non-surgical procedures so they can be located in such places without affecting their images. But dentistry deals with invasive procedures so locating in such places (next to Nail salon) really cheapens the profession. That can be said if you see a sign for "Facial Cosmetic Surgery" located next to McDonald or GNC in the mall. What really cheapens our image are the terms that I cringe everytime I hear... That's right... the word PRICE.
When I was at UT Memphis , I was appalled when I viewed the patient's orientation video tape and the word PRICE was used as opposed to "fee". It goes on and on like this ..." at UT at Memphis SOD, our PRICE is about 1/2 of private practice..." and that really bothers me. I made a recommendation to change the word PRICE to the Office Affairs to no avail. The other is the word "dental work", as one should refer this as dental PROCEDURE when you talk to your patients. Sometimes our professional image is cheapened by things that we do to ourselves. DP
 
blotterspotter said:
I'm sorry for the ignorance, but I'd never heard of a dentist's office in a mercantile setting until I heard someone talk about Sears Dental. Do you guys think that might be hte future of dentistry with a dental office in every wal-mart?! If that is the case, I think it will disgrace the profession the way it has in the pharmacy business. Pharmacists are no longer treated as professionals, but rather as clerks.


Sears Dental is a new phenomena. I actually visited one in Ohio where they are legal. Currently, it is illegal in Virginia for dentists to practice in a commercial or mercantile business. It's in our best intrest to fight the cheapining down of our profession by enacting laws like the one in Virginia. Trust me, Sears and other businesses will be lobbying in the legislature to get a piece of our pie. If you're a member of ASDA, you should try voicing your opinion to your national ASDA rep.
 
Tooth said:
Sears Dental is a new phenomena. I actually visited one in Ohio where they are legal. Currently, it is illegal in Virginia for dentists to practice in a commercial or mercantile business. It's in our best intrest to fight the cheapining down of our profession by enacting laws like the one in Virginia. Trust me, Sears and other businesses will be lobbying in the legislature to get a piece of our pie. If you're a member of ASDA, you should try voicing your opinion to your national ASDA rep.

Oh wow, I never knew it was a legal issue. Thanks for the information Mr. (or Dr.) Tooth. I'm going to look further in to it, and I couldn't agree with you more that we MUST ALL contact our representatives at the ASDA to prevent such a thing from happening. It would destroy the level of care that patients in the USA get from patients, much the same way it has done at the pharmacy level.
 
Tooth said:
Sears Dental is a new phenomena. I actually visited one in Ohio where they are legal. Currently, it is illegal in Virginia for dentists to practice in a commercial or mercantile business. It's in our best intrest to fight the cheapining down of our profession by enacting laws like the one in Virginia. Trust me, Sears and other businesses will be lobbying in the legislature to get a piece of our pie. If you're a member of ASDA, you should try voicing your opinion to your national ASDA rep.

I thought Sears Dental was around in the 70s. I am having flashbacks from my "History of Dentistry" lecture from first year. The professor mentioned "franchise dentistry" as a form of dental practice, gave "Sears Dental" as the example, and then said "Sears Dental was around in the 70s, but franchise dentistry didn't really last."
 
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I thought Sears Dental was around in the 70s. I am having flashbacks from my "History of Dentistry" lecture from first year. The professor mentioned "franchise dentistry" as a form of dental practice, gave "Sears Dental" as the example, and then said "Sears Dental was around in the 70s, but franchise dentistry didn't really last."


You're right. It has apparently been around awhile. It just seemed new to me b/c I had never seen them until I moved to Ohio.
 
Sounds like capitalism and American laziness at their best.

"Hey, hon. While we're at Sears picking up some hedge clippers, I think I'm gonna get my tooth pulled."

Next up: drive through dentistry! Where the docs lean into your car window to slap in a crown. They'll probably give you a buy-one-get-one-free coupon, too.
 
I'm glad you guys agree with me cuz as a graduating pharmacist (this year) and a dental student in september of this year, I have been very disappointed by what has become of pharmacy and will take YEARS until it makes the gains it has lost. I'll definetly be dead by then. I agree that MD's would never accept that, and it's OD's unforunately that end up at the wal-Marts of the world. It has cheapened their profession as well. Just go over to the MD forums and check out their critism of optometrists. Many of them don't consider them real doctors. It's really sad.

There are many MD's who think all non-MD professionals (dentists, optometrists, pharmacists, podiatrists, and others) are medical school rejects and not 'real doctors' regardless of their office settings. So what is your point?

Wal-mart has a plan to open medical centers in some of their stores, and yes, they will employ M.D.s at some point although they will start with nurse practioners and P.A.'s.

I know a Wal-mart O.D. who makes over $250,000 working slightly less than 40 hrs/week with no stress of running his own business. He does about 15-20 eye exams a day charging 65$ to 120$ per exam. He seems very happy. You need not feel sorry for him.
 
I know a Wal-mart O.D. who makes over $250,000 working slightly less than 40 hrs/week with no stress of running his own business. He does about 15-20 eye exams a day charging 65$ to 120$ per exam. He seems very happy. You need not feel sorry for him.

I call bullcrap on this. My father is an optometrist and I know for a fact that Wal-Mart does not pay 50% commission. If this optometrist is doing 50-75 eye exams a day I will believe you. But no way is Wal-Mart paying him that kind of money for only 15-20 eye exams. 40 exams a day is a busy, very profitable day for a optometrist.
 
I call bullcrap on this. My father is an optometrist and I know for a fact that Wal-Mart does not pay 50% commission. If this optometrist is doing 50-75 eye exams a day I will believe you. But no way is Wal-Mart paying him that kind of money for only 15-20 eye exams. 40 exams a day is a busy, very profitable day for a optometrist.

You have absolutely no idea about how O.D’s are paid in Wal-mart, do you? “50% Commisson????” What the heck are you talking about? Do you think that O.D.’s are paid like a dental associate in a dental practice?
“40 exams a day is a busy, very profitable day for an optometrist.” Once again, what the heck are you talking about? No O.D’s can or will see that many patients a day. How can an O.D. do a complete eye exam in less than 10 minutes?

Typically, O.D’s working at Wal-mart keep all the fees he generates, and pays Wal-mart 10% of the gross back to Wal-mart for leasing the space inside. It is illegal for any corporation to pay O.D’s on commission basis.

While an income of $250,000 is not typical of O.D.’s. Those few who are very lucky to have a lease in a Wal-mart store that has a very busy optical store, this type of income is certainly possible.

The problem is that most O.D.’s do not see nearly as many as 15-20 patients a day. Thus their low average income compared to that of dentists.
 
i read this post before i slept. then i dreamt that i saw a dental office in target. all their handpieces had the red target painted all over. their chairs had the red bullseye painted. the assistants' scrubs consisted of a bullseye. it was terrible.
 
i read this post before i slept. then i dreamt that i saw a dental office in target. all their handpieces had the red target painted all over. their chairs had the red bullseye painted. the assistants' scrubs consisted of a bullseye. it was terrible.

Actually here in PA, I've seen Gentle Dental inside Shopping Malls, often next to a Payless Shoes or something...I agree, very bad image for the profession.
 
Actually here in PA, I've seen Gentle Dental inside Shopping Malls, often next to a Payless Shoes or something...I agree, very bad image for the profession.

If it is the case (and I think that it is quite possible) that dental offices inside of Wal-mart can provide a quality dental care at reduced fees to patients, what is so bad about it?

Shouldn't the access to dental care be the over-riding concern, rather than the bad image this might create for the dental profession?
 
If it is the case (and I think that it is quite possible) that dental offices inside of Wal-mart can provide a quality dental care at reduced fees to patients, what is so bad about it?

Shouldn't the access to dental care be the over-riding concern, rather than the bad image this might create for the dental profession?
Ask optometrists & pharmacists what was so bad about it.

The primary problem isn't image or even money--it's the loss of autonomy that goes with signing up to work for a large-scale corporation. You stop being the boss, and you stop being the one who determines patient care and business direction.
 
You have absolutely no idea about how O.D's are paid in Wal-mart, do you? "50% Commisson????" What the heck are you talking about? Do you think that O.D.'s are paid like a dental associate in a dental practice?
"40 exams a day is a busy, very profitable day for an optometrist." Once again, what the heck are you talking about? No O.D's can or will see that many patients a day. How can an O.D. do a complete eye exam in less than 10 minutes?

Typically, O.D's working at Wal-mart keep all the fees he generates, and pays Wal-mart 10% of the gross back to Wal-mart for leasing the space inside. It is illegal for any corporation to pay O.D's on commission basis.

While an income of $250,000 is not typical of O.D.'s. Those few who are very lucky to have a lease in a Wal-mart store that has a very busy optical store, this type of income is certainly possible.

The problem is that most O.D.'s do not see nearly as many as 15-20 patients a day. Thus their low average income compared to that of dentists.

My father is an Optometrist for America's Best and sees on average 40 patients a day. One of his colleagues was laid off last year and went to work for Wal-Mart and he pays a lot more than 50% of the fees he generates back to Wal-Mart. I have sources that are sitting two feet away from me telling me these things. I am talking to Optometrists that do what you say they do and do it for Wal-Mart. O.D.'s can and do see a lot more than 15-20 patients a day. They have been doing it for many years.

The reason their pay is lower is because they do not make very much money off of their exams. They make the majority of their money off the glasses they sell. That is why most give free exams with frames. That is why it has been so successful in Wal-Marts and Shop-Ko's. Optometry is just as much a retail business as it is a healthcare business.
 
Ask optometrists & pharmacists what was so bad about it.

The primary problem isn't image or even money--it's the loss of autonomy that goes with signing up to work for a large-scale corporation. You stop being the boss, and you stop being the one who determines patient care and business direction.

Does that go for all the staff dentists who work for the VA, Public Health Service, and State Health Agencies as well? They perform a vital service. The government is the largest scale corporation of them all. These dentist must work under strict government guidelines. They are not the boss either.
Further, the patient pool who will utilize the services in a commercial venue are not the ones who will be paying big private fees, but, on the contrary, those who have less access. The real issue is to preserve adequate care for those wh utilize these sevices.
 
If it is the case (and I think that it is quite possible) that dental offices inside of Wal-mart can provide a quality dental care at reduced fees to patients, what is so bad about it?

Shouldn't the access to dental care be the over-riding concern, rather than the bad image this might create for the dental profession?

If you do not understand why this would be bad for your profession, then I doubt I could explain.
 
My father is an Optometrist for America's Best and sees on average 40 patients a day. One of his colleagues was laid off last year and went to work for Wal-Mart and he pays a lot more than 50% of the fees he generates back to Wal-Mart. I have sources that are sitting two feet away from me telling me these things. I am talking to Optometrists that do what you say they do and do it for Wal-Mart. O.D.'s can and do see a lot more than 15-20 patients a day. They have been doing it for many years.

The reason their pay is lower is because they do not make very much money off of their exams. They make the majority of their money off the glasses they sell. That is why most give free exams with frames. That is why it has been so successful in Wal-Marts and Shop-Ko's. Optometry is just as much a retail business as it is a healthcare business.

Wow, I'm not sure how to respond to a post like this one.
Johntara04, give it up, would you? No more lies, please.

No son of an O.D. will proudly admit that his father works for America's Best and sees 40 patients a day. Optometric community has a name for an O.D. who works for America's Best, which I cannot mention here. Those who don't know, America's Best is the place where only an O.D. who is completely without integrity and concern for patients will work for. They force you to see insane number of patients; and it is simply impossible to provide a decent care in that setting. (In some states, the way they practice is illegal and thus you don't see America's best in all states). O.D.s' who work there don't usually last more than a year due to burn out. It is equivalent to the worst form of a dental mill which johntara04 will fit right in.

The point I was trying to make here is that dentists need not completely rule out a partnership with a corporation. I think that for some dentists, with a proper arrangement, it could be beneficial to both the dentists and the patients. You can conceivably devote all of your time in taking care of your patients and need not necessarily lose autonomy, and not worry about running a business, and yet make considerably more money than being a permanent dental associate working for a dentist owner of a practice.
 
Does that go for all the staff dentists who work for the VA, Public Health Service, and State Health Agencies as well? They perform a vital service. The government is the largest scale corporation of them all. These dentist must work under strict government guidelines. They are not the boss either.
All correct, except for a few little details...

1) Take a look at the number of public (VA/PHS/etc.) dentistry jobs compared to the number of private practice positions. It's barely a blip on the radar.

2) Out of those very few jobs, take a look at how many of them are unfilled at any given moment.

3) The government, while inefficient, doesn't benefit from actively siphoning as much money as possible out of its dentists. The corporations, on the other hand, will cut corners anywhere they can in order to boost shareholder profits, and the dentist is powerless to stop or prevent it.

Further, the patient pool who will utilize the services in a commercial venue are not the ones who will be paying big private fees, but, on the contrary, those who have less access. The real issue is to preserve adequate care for those wh utilize these sevices.

In that case, feel free to open an all-Medicaid practice and knock yourself out. If anyone comes in wanting to pay cash for comprehensive treatment, just send them across the street to my office. 😉

Access to care is an important issue, but so is professional autonomy. I plan to donate a good deal of dental care to underprivileged individuals where I practice, but I'm sure as hell not going to surrender control of my office to a faceless corporation who cares more about its stockholders than my patients.
 
I think the answer to this concern lies in one of the main reasons dentists choose their field when they're considering what part of medicine to pursue: to own their own practice and business! Dentists that aren't interested join big chains like AspenDental. The majority do, and so aren't "pulled" into the life....they just want nothing to do with it.
 
Generally, Walmart ODs make anywhere from 80 to 90% of their fees. However, fees are very low in almost all instances. A private practice may charge $130 for an exam, while the walmart doc charges $40.

The previous poster was correct, the only way to make money in walmart is to see 10 or more patients per day. From what I've experienced, there are more than enough days where you may only see 3 or 4, or 5 patients. I've even had a few days where I've seen 24. It all averages out, but they lure you in promising 18-30 patients a day and do the math for you.

The big problem is that if you try to raise your fees from $40 to $42, you may loose out on your lease the next time a bunch of graduates comes out looking to pay off their loans... They can cut you loose in 30 days usually, or 60 at most. So yes, the big looser is the OD because there is no job security and while you can make little decisions, the big decisions are left up to corporate management

Optometry is a profession that has traditionally depended more upon "retail" sales to provide income, which is why exam fees have been kept unnaturally low. It was the smart MBA that realized a few ODs would be willing to trade long term prosperity for a quick buck, thus the corporate world of optometry was born. Any potential advantage of retail optometry can also be realized in a private practice as well, with some added dignity to boot!!!

I think in general dentistry is somewhat more immune to this, but with the way healthcare is headed, watch out.
 
I think in general dentistry is somewhat more immune to this, but with the way healthcare is headed, watch out.



My husband, shortly after graduating, worked in a deparment store dental office. Hess, now defunct, had dental offices. In fact, many indoor malls also had dental offices, none of which seem to have lasted for any extended period of time.

However, some of these larger, free-standing, chain dental clinics have survived for over a decade and seem to have a decent patient acceptance rate. They are not for everybody, but they offer appointments at convenient days and times, and most participate with many, almost every, dental insurance plan in existance.

Unfortunately, I think their appeal will broaden with time. Many private practitioners are shying away from participating with a lot of dental insurance plans, these clinics do not. It has and will be a driving factor in their acceptance rate, that plus very convenient appointment times. Many dentists do not want to keep their office open 5 nights a week and every Saturday.

For the kids who grow up going to a clinic type dental office, they may not feel nostalgic about their family dentist like many adults do today. Thank goodness for those that do! There are many patients who will come to our office to get their dental work done, but send their kids to "Blank" Dental for their cleanings to save money. We have a medical HMO, and we do not go out of network for anything, too costly. This attitude could further extend to dentistry if dental plans are offered to more individuals through individual type plans. AARP is now offering a dental plan through Delta Dental.

Private practitioners will survive, but the model may be slowly changing. Hopefully, not too much and not too soon. Dentists who participate with many insurance plans will have absolutely no difficulty finding patients. Those who have a high end office with all the bells and whistles that caters to cash patients may also be okay. But, it may be the middle-of-the-road dentists, those who choose not to participate with any insurance plans and whose offices do not have as many and as convenient hours, that may see a dearth of patients in the future, but not necessarily. The relationship a dentist develops with his/her patients can be the primary reason a patient will return to his/her office.
 
Does that go for all the staff dentists who work for the VA, Public Health Service, and State Health Agencies as well? They perform a vital service. The government is the largest scale corporation of them all. These dentist must work under strict government guidelines. They are not the boss either.
Further, the patient pool who will utilize the services in a commercial venue are not the ones who will be paying big private fees, but, on the contrary, those who have less access. The real issue is to preserve adequate care for those wh utilize these sevices.

Sears Dental = Access to care???huh?? not at all, not the ones I've seen. they don't accept any medical assistance patients. insurance and cash only. and on top of that, they are known to prey on recently graduated associates and push them to do mill dentistry.

As someone who did a GPR at a VA, and stayed on to work for a year (rural PA), I resent your comparison.

Community clinics (medical and dental) have done the most for access to care hands down. And they actually treat their doctors well.
 
The relationship a dentist develops with his/her patients can be the primary reason a patient will return to his/her office.

Right. Sears, Aspen, etc are notorious for their high staff turnover rate. Patients rarely see the same dentist twice.
 
Right. Sears, Aspen, etc are notorious for their high staff turnover rate. Patients rarely see the same dentist twice.

Because every new dentist wants to open his/her own office 🙂 🙂 It happens at private dental offices too.
 
Because every new dentist wants to open his/her own office 🙂 🙂 It happens at private dental offices too.

You're absolutely correct. However, most new dentists plan to associate for a year or two before opening his/her office, not three to four months, which is what happens at Sears and other mills. If you don't believe me, interview at a few of these places, look at the treatment progress notes, and chances are you'll see like 10 different DDS/DMD signatures over the span of a year. Ask where they are now and probably wo'nt be around.

Secondly, high turnover rate doesn't only apply to dentists, but assistants, hygienists, front office personnel, etc.
 
I am sad to say that I just wrote a huge post for this thread and lost my entry by mistake since I'm kind of new on this message board...

All I can say is that I was lured into signing a contract in December of 2006 with Sears Dental which goes by the name of DentalCare Partners and DentalWorks.

I was blinded by the beauty of a brand new office they opened. Let me tell you that they are a Dental Mill. As a new dentist you are required to see all walk-ins, emergencies plus your scheduled patients with one assistant to your disposal. The corporate manager assigned to my facility barely looked beyond the front desk and would rarely send another girl back to clean up after the main assistant if we were running behind. They staff the doctors with new assistants just out of school that are virtually untrained. Good luck keeping up with a schedule with lack of assistance! You are expected to see all walk-ins, so it's not a surprise when you are running behing schedule that your "scheduled" patient still sitting in the waiting room waiting walks out MAD! Corporate expects you to do just about everything whether you are qualified in full mouth surgeries or not... Oh sure, they'll say... don't do a surgery if you're uncomfortable, but if you refer too many complex case patients to outside specialists you will lose your job! The hours of operation are terrible. I would arrive at 9:20 in the morning to go through charts and give a huddle before 10:00 AM and the office was open until 8:00PM at night. Almost all days were without a lunch or break. My one assistant was more overworked than me and so I also cleaned rooms and instruments of which I did not get paid to do. I had a hygienist only one day a week and so I was required to do just about all of the perio unless it was advanced.
They have a $49.00 special for an exam, full mouth series and adult prophy. Patients would come in with mounds of calculus demanding that you clean their teeth right then and there. Some patients would comply when you informed them that they need scaling and root planing by the hygienist. Others would scream and yell and make my life miserable because they came for their $49.00 special.

I worked for this Corporation all for a beginning percentage of 26% of collection and it goes upward from there depending upon your production. (maximum 32%)

This past week I requested a few days off at the end of march and the beginning of April on my children's spring break. In addition, I took an authoritative stand with the corporate office manager assigned to my facility to get the office running better. However, I am a female dentist and she did not like that one bit. I was out of the office on thursday and friday and on friday I received a 6 line letter stating that I WAS TERMINATED IN MY POSITION WITHOUT CAUSE. Maybe it's my ego speaking, but I happen to be a damn good dentist who only took this job because I was looking at opening my own practice and the expense involved and someone contacted me from their corporation for this position.

Think twice before considering a job with Sears... If dentistry is your only life and can be in the office 10 plus hours a day, then maybe it will work for you. You have to be fairly good in all oral surgery cases also which just isn't my thing... I like cosmetic and restorative dentistry.
My advice is Beware and Be Cautious before signing a contract with this corporation!!!
 
Think twice before considering a job with Sears... If dentistry is your only life and can be in the office 10 plus hours a day, then maybe it will work for you. You have to be fairly good in all oral surgery cases also which just isn't my thing... I like cosmetic and restorative dentistry.
My advice is Beware and Be Cautious before signing a contract with this corporation!!!

wow. thanks for the inside view on what seemed shady from the outside...so would you say that "franchise dentistry" harms the image of the profession?😉 :laugh: I'm sorry you lost your job, but with the way things were going it sounds like it was the best thing that could have happened. Can you report their shoddy practices to your local board? A company that punishes you for referring beyond your capabilities seems wrong. At very least it seems unprofessional. It's a good thing that you got out actually. I just went to a legal seminar with our state organization's attorney and she made it very clear that the company that pressures you to do HACK dentistry is NOT accountable when the POOP hits the fan. Companies like that will hang you out to dry when something goes wrong. You're nothing more than an asset to them; A pawn that takes the hit for the QUEEN. That person was YOU, but not anymore. I hope you soon find something that sets you on the path to practicing the way YOU want to.:luck:
 
wow. thanks for the inside view on what seemed shady from the outside...so would you say that "franchise dentistry" harms the image of the profession?😉 :laugh:

I think that it definitely hurts the image of the profession and oneself as a practitioner. Eventhough the office was beautiful and in a "ritsy" part of town, I still felt like I was arriving to work in the back of Sears by merchandise pick-up, the restrooms, Miracle Ear and Sears Optical. For me who wanted to establish a restorative type of clientele and family practice, it was kind of sad. Soon, you don't even focus anymore on the new modern practice. You just feel like... it's another day in Sears. Blah!

I was also embarrassed to tell my friends about the new great position I got because I thought they would think that they didn't want to come to Sears for their dental work. The patients who came to Sears saw their advertisement on the television for the most part about our opening. They came for discount dentures, discount crowns and one time cheap dental visits. Many of them were also doctor shoppers just trying to compare our prices against other consults they had previously. This doesn't do much for your ego and morale as a practitioner striving to provide quality care.
I'm sorry you lost your job, but with the way things were going it sounds like it was the best thing that could have happened. Can you report their shoddy practices to your local board? A company that punishes you for referring beyond your capabilities seems wrong. At very least it seems unprofessional.

I've been thinking about it or submitting an article to one of the dental journals about my experience if I can keep it anonymous.

It's a good thing that you got out actually. I just went to a legal seminar with our state organization's attorney and she made it very clear that the company that pressures you to do HACK dentistry is NOT accountable when the POOP hits the fan. Companies like that will hang you out to dry when something goes wrong. You're nothing more than an asset to them; A pawn that takes the hit for the QUEEN. That person was YOU, but not anymore.

Yup. I learned that lesson when I resigned from working in a very old practice over the summer where handpieces failed several times during an appointment, where there was still a dip tank, where the PAN was 30 years old and the autoclave would break down and there was inadequate lighting. I LEARNED THAT YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR PROVIDING QUALITY DENTISTRY THAT CAN STAND UP AGAINST THE BEST PRACTICES IN TOWN NO MATTER WHAT YOUR LIMITATIONS ARE.


I hope you soon find something that sets you on the path to practicing the way YOU want to.:luck:

Yes. I wonder if I want to take the plunge at this time to open up a practice. I'm in my mid-forties with kids getting ready to go off to college. It's the start-up cost that has me scared although I've been told I can do it.
I've just been dragging my feet without reaching a decision as of yet.

Thanks for your reply!
 
It's funny that this was posted in here because last month, as I was driving to my new job, I saw the CVS store in front with a huge sign "CVS Dental Office Inside". I thought that was very strange...and yes, that "cheapens" dentistry and the value of the profession in my opinion.
 
I hope this doesn't lead us into the problems that optometry has. Their profession has been cheapen by the like of walmart, sam's club, etc..
 
Believe it or not, a dentist down here in Houston had opened an office at a "Fiesta" grocery store. :laugh:
 
Does that go for all the staff dentists who work for the VA, Public Health Service, and State Health Agencies as well? They perform a vital service. The government is the largest scale corporation of them all. These dentist must work under strict government guidelines. They are not the boss either.
Further, the patient pool who will utilize the services in a commercial venue are not the ones who will be paying big private fees, but, on the contrary, those who have less access. The real issue is to preserve adequate care for those wh utilize these sevices.


There are no "strict government guidelines" working as a dentist or as any other type of health professional for the US Government. You make your own treatment decisions for the patient. It's just like being an associate in a dental practice but with more non-clinical responsibilies.
 
Believe it or not, a dentist down here in Houston had opened an office at a "Fiesta" grocery store. :laugh:

Do the dentist that work in theses type of establishments get hired as an employee or do they go to the business with an offer?
 
Sorry to crash on your thread but your profession must act now. Commercial optometry is a bane to my profession. I have zero respect for ODs who crank out money for a highschool walmart manager. Of course it makes our profession look bad. Dentistry must fight commercial practice like a plague! Hey I spent 100 to 200 thousand dollars taking 20+ course hours a semester for 4+ years in grad school to work at wally world. Its disgusting.
 
I think that the dental profession has been cheapened due to our own greediness. There are ways to make the practice profitable without resorting to setting up "store fronts" next to the video stores or nail salon. Dentistry is a MEDICAL profession and nail,spa,massage palor,tatoo shops are vocational. Remember the old days where none of this Sears or CVS stuff pop up, dentistry had been portrayed in a very professional manner. Nowadays, with these spa treatment, going to a dentist is like going to the "dental store". Infact, I have seen a dental office where it is named "dental store". I think we are our own victims. DP
 
Life is a competition for resources. Always has been. Lots of people in this country want to get their hands on the good money we make in dentistry. The Wal-Marts wants it, the trial lawyers want it, politicians want it and of course we want it. And so the competition for YOUR paycheck is happening right now whether you like it or not. You might as well fight to keep it. Business are starting up to buy up dental practices to make you an employee for life. State politicians are relaxing laws to allow corporations to own 20 practices. Its happening slowly but it is happening.

So how do you protect that nice house, 2 new cars and great lifestyle you're earning?...

Get active with a group of local dentists. Join the ADA. Pay your dues to your state dental association and protect the profession (and you protect yourself).
 
I am sad to say that I just wrote a huge post for this thread and lost my entry by mistake since I'm kind of new on this message board...

All I can say is that I was lured into signing a contract in December of 2006 with Sears Dental which goes by the name of DentalCare Partners and DentalWorks.

I was blinded by the beauty of a brand new office they opened. Let me tell you that they are a Dental Mill. As a new dentist you are required to see all walk-ins, emergencies plus your scheduled patients with one assistant to your disposal. The corporate manager assigned to my facility barely looked beyond the front desk and would rarely send another girl back to clean up after the main assistant if we were running behind. They staff the doctors with new assistants just out of school that are virtually untrained. Good luck keeping up with a schedule with lack of assistance! You are expected to see all walk-ins, so it's not a surprise when you are running behing schedule that your "scheduled" patient still sitting in the waiting room waiting walks out MAD! Corporate expects you to do just about everything whether you are qualified in full mouth surgeries or not... Oh sure, they'll say... don't do a surgery if you're uncomfortable, but if you refer too many complex case patients to outside specialists you will lose your job! The hours of operation are terrible. I would arrive at 9:20 in the morning to go through charts and give a huddle before 10:00 AM and the office was open until 8:00PM at night. Almost all days were without a lunch or break. My one assistant was more overworked than me and so I also cleaned rooms and instruments of which I did not get paid to do. I had a hygienist only one day a week and so I was required to do just about all of the perio unless it was advanced.
They have a $49.00 special for an exam, full mouth series and adult prophy. Patients would come in with mounds of calculus demanding that you clean their teeth right then and there. Some patients would comply when you informed them that they need scaling and root planing by the hygienist. Others would scream and yell and make my life miserable because they came for their $49.00 special.

I worked for this Corporation all for a beginning percentage of 26% of collection and it goes upward from there depending upon your production. (maximum 32%)

This past week I requested a few days off at the end of march and the beginning of April on my children's spring break. In addition, I took an authoritative stand with the corporate office manager assigned to my facility to get the office running better. However, I am a female dentist and she did not like that one bit. I was out of the office on thursday and friday and on friday I received a 6 line letter stating that I WAS TERMINATED IN MY POSITION WITHOUT CAUSE. Maybe it's my ego speaking, but I happen to be a damn good dentist who only took this job because I was looking at opening my own practice and the expense involved and someone contacted me from their corporation for this position.

Think twice before considering a job with Sears... If dentistry is your only life and can be in the office 10 plus hours a day, then maybe it will work for you. You have to be fairly good in all oral surgery cases also which just isn't my thing... I like cosmetic and restorative dentistry.
My advice is Beware and Be Cautious before signing a contract with this corporation!!!


Getting "fired" from there was probably the best thing that will ever happen to your dental career.

The problem with so many dental chains and even many partnerships/associateships is that more often than not there is someone incharge who is so paranoid about the cash issue that they completely loose sight of the big picture.

Relatively speaking, there's ALOT of mouths out there, and not enough dentists to take care of them all. Some people get so paranid about their practice that they start doing irrational things, like trying to sqeeze an associate out of a few dollars here and there, trying to force treatment on patients, and being more aware of the patients account than their mouths. Bottom line, the vast majority of patients are aware of alot of this, and beit in the form of unhappy staff, to a "rushed" feeling in the chair, they take note, and often won't tell you, but rather just leave the practice and move on. I like to think of the patient visit(s) in the following way, the easiet visit to get them in the chair is the 1st visit, the hardest is getting them to come back for the 2nd. If they come back, you've got a dependable patient, because they're comfortable with you and that more often than not is more important to office hours, your fees, what insurance companies you may participate with, etc.

Chains and some partnerships/associateships can totally loose this perspective and thats when the trouble arises, employees will leave, patients will leave, the stress goes up on the owner, you try harder and to patients into the elective treatment, more patients leave, more stress, more problems, you start taking lesser and lesser paying insurance plans to compensate for patients leaving/not accepting larger treatment plans, you start working more (and crazier) hours than you want, and your personal life suffers.

If you want a good barometer of an office type that will generally have both happy patients and a happy staff, find one where the employee turnover is basically non-existant. I bet that you'll see a very high patient retention rate at those practices too. I doubt you'll see any of that with the chains and WHEN (unfortunately it's a "when" and not an "if") "walmart dental" opens😱 If you want to practice that way, feel free to. I don't, and I think the vast majority of our profession doesn't want to see it happen either.

One last thing, that 26% of collections they were paying you, they were realistically making a solid 20%+ themselves, since all but the most inefficient of offices will have the overhead under 65%(many close to 50%) and the corporate cost cutting mentality of that chain I'm sure had the overhead as low as possible. As a practice owner, I would strongly advise (and this would be at my expense as a practice owner) that when you're looking at potential places to work, and the compensation topic arise, if you're not getting in the mid-30% range of collections, look elsewhere!
 
Getting "fired" from there was probably the best thing that will ever happen to your dental career.

The problem with so many dental chains and even many partnerships/associateships is that more often than not there is someone incharge who is so paranoid about the cash issue that they completely loose sight of the big picture.

Relatively speaking, there's ALOT of mouths out there, and not enough dentists to take care of them all. Some people get so paranid about their practice that they start doing irrational things, like trying to sqeeze an associate out of a few dollars here and there, trying to force treatment on patients, and being more aware of the patients account than their mouths. Bottom line, the vast majority of patients are aware of alot of this, and beit in the form of unhappy staff, to a "rushed" feeling in the chair, they take note, and often won't tell you, but rather just leave the practice and move on. I like to think of the patient visit(s) in the following way, the easiet visit to get them in the chair is the 1st visit, the hardest is getting them to come back for the 2nd. If they come back, you've got a dependable patient, because they're comfortable with you and that more often than not is more important to office hours, your fees, what insurance companies you may participate with, etc.

Chains and some partnerships/associateships can totally loose this perspective and thats when the trouble arises, employees will leave, patients will leave, the stress goes up on the owner, you try harder and to patients into the elective treatment, more patients leave, more stress, more problems, you start taking lesser and lesser paying insurance plans to compensate for patients leaving/not accepting larger treatment plans, you start working more (and crazier) hours than you want, and your personal life suffers.

If you want a good barometer of an office type that will generally have both happy patients and a happy staff, find one where the employee turnover is basically non-existant. I bet that you'll see a very high patient retention rate at those practices too. I doubt you'll see any of that with the chains and WHEN (unfortunately it's a "when" and not an "if") "walmart dental" opens😱 If you want to practice that way, feel free to. I don't, and I think the vast majority of our profession doesn't want to see it happen either.

One last thing, that 26% of collections they were paying you, they were realistically making a solid 20%+ themselves, since all but the most inefficient of offices will have the overhead under 65%(many close to 50%) and the corporate cost cutting mentality of that chain I'm sure had the overhead as low as possible. As a practice owner, I would strongly advise (and this would be at my expense as a practice owner) that when you're looking at potential places to work, and the compensation topic arise, if you're not getting in the mid-30% range of collections, look elsewhere!

Dr Jeff is right on the money. He knows how to run a "people service" business. He should write a book and it should be the basis for a mandatory D-4 dental class . I think he just might be the "Jack Welch" of Dentistry although certain portions of their respective business philosophies might clash.
 
Dr Jeff is right on the money. He knows how to run a "people service" business. He should write a book and it should be the basis for a mandatory D-4 dental class . I think he just might be the "Jack Welch" of Dentistry although certain portions of their respective business philosophies might clash.

(Blushing here) I just use a bit of common sense combined with some moral and business sense instilled on me by my family. And on the Jack Welch note, back in he late 80's, my father(a human resources exec) worked directly for Jack Welch at GE, so maybe thats where some of that comes from! And yes , I do bounce business ideas off of my father to this day (and I know he takes great pride in hearing me ask his advice to this day, as I've long sinced progressed from the "I'm an all knowing teenager and you can't possibly know anything/relate to this Dad" phase😉
 
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