Sears Dental

[groundhog]

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(Blushing here) I just use a bit of common sense combined with some moral and business sense instilled on me by my family. And on the Jack Welch note, back in he late 80's, my father(a human resources exec) worked directly for Jack Welch at GE, so maybe thats where some of that comes from! And yes , I do bounce business ideas off of my father to this day (and I know he takes great pride in hearing me ask his advice to this day, as I've long sinced progressed from the "I'm an all knowing teenager and you can't possibly know anything/relate to this Dad" phase😉

Sounds like your Dad is one great asset to have on hand. Kind of like the Vito and Michael Corleone Father/Son relationship in the "Godfather after Michael took charge. (although your business interest is much more ligit and consumer/employee/peer group friendly). I lost my Dad to Alzheimers in December (After that, I've come to the conclusion that a sudden fatal heart attack is about the best way to go when the appointed time comes along). I got a lot of wisdom from him too. Hang on to your Dad as long as you can (which I know you will).

 

[Rube]

I bet that you'll see a very high patient retention rate at those practices too. I doubt you'll see any of that with the chains and WHEN (unfortunately it's a "when" and not an "if") "walmart dental" opens😱 If you want to practice that way, feel free to. I don't, and I think the vast majority of our profession doesn't want to see it happen either.

It doesn't really matters what the vast majority of our profession wants, unfortunately. It doesn't matters who is giving service with a smile and all the rest. If Wal Mart rolls into every town in America with 99 dollar dentistry things will change forever. If some here think "well, heck, I'm going to practice in an urban or suburban setting, I won't practice near a Wal-Mart" it won't matter, it'll impact the whole market. Because believe me, people will put up with crappy service once a year and drive 40 miles away from their house to a Wal-Mart to save 100 bucks. Its all about money for most patients. Not to be a bummer or a one noter, I just think young dentists need to be firm about getting somewhat active in politics through contributing to their professional association.

 

[gryffindor]

Believe it or not, a dentist down here in Houston had opened an office at a "Fiesta" grocery store.

This is not a good thing at all.

 

[groundhog]

It doesn't really matters what the vast majority of our profession wants, unfortunately. It doesn't matters who is giving service with a smile and all the rest. If Wal Mart rolls into every town in America with 99 dollar dentistry things will change forever. If some here think "well, heck, I'm going to practice in an urban or suburban setting, I won't practice near a Wal-Mart" it won't matter, it'll impact the whole market. Because believe me, people will put up with crappy service once a year and drive 40 miles away from their house to a Wal-Mart to save 100 bucks. Its all about money for most patients. Not to be a bummer or a one noter, I just think young dentists need to be firm about getting somewhat active in politics through contributing to their professional association.

Rube,
I think you are too much of a pessimist

1: The numbers of dentists wil remain controlled which will mitigate the "Wal-Mart" effect.

2: Politically mandated health care insurance for all (which, at minimum will incompass dental care those aged 2-19) is now a slam dunk. That will also mitigate the "Wal-Mart" effect.

3: As a dentist, adhere to Dr. Jeff's "A quick MBA for private dental practitioners" and you will be just fine. Where I live, Wal-Mart gets its tail kicked by competitor called Costco. Costco provides its employees better pay and benefits. Costco has less employee turnover. Costco shelves a broader product line that offers upscale as well as standard goods. Costco prices are competitive. Employees at Costco are much happier and customer freindly. The Costco store facilities are better maintained. Falls right in line with what Dr Jeff said earlier about running a business doesn't it?

 

[groundhog]

Rube,
Let me approach your concern from a different angle. I don't want to offend anyone here, I'm just stating the facts as I know them.

My wife will not shop at Wal-Mart. She just does not like the shopping experience there..period. She likes to feel a bit pampered by both the store environment and staff when she shops. Now I'm different. I just go after the product that I want when I want it. I just don't happen to shop at Wal-Mart because it has never crossed my mind to do so.

Anyway, guess who does 90% of the shopping in our family? Guess who selected our family dentist? Guess who picked out the OMS specialist who would do our kid's wizzies when the family dentist provided a couple of referrals and said both were great? You got it. It was my wife. And did she take her attitudes with her when she went "shopping" for a family dentist and an OMS for the kids? You bet. I also bet that my family is pretty representaive of the USA when it comes to dividing up the "shopping duties."

 

[afrosheen]

sears dental gets me real mad!

 

[S Files]

It doesn't really matters what the vast majority of our profession wants, unfortunately. It doesn't matters who is giving service with a smile and all the rest. If Wal Mart rolls into every town in America with 99 dollar dentistry things will change forever. If some here think "well, heck, I'm going to practice in an urban or suburban setting, I won't practice near a Wal-Mart" it won't matter, it'll impact the whole market. Because believe me, people will put up with crappy service once a year and drive 40 miles away from their house to a Wal-Mart to save 100 bucks. Its all about money for most patients. Not to be a bummer or a one noter, I just think young dentists need to be firm about getting somewhat active in politics through contributing to their professional association.

some good points...i think it's more than just the local/state/national dental association, but the local government as well (doesn't have to be thru ADA). in terms of motivation factors, are the ones who are more politically active just naturally interested in that sort of thing. or do you think something in a dental curriculum could enhance these or promote more to do these things??

 

[Lamina dura]

Does anyone know what states currently support Sears Dental practices? Or maybe a better question is which states COULD support Sears Dental practices?

It seems to me that those are the states where our input could be most beneficial to legislators.

 

[DrJeff]

Does anyone know what states currently support Sears Dental practices? Or maybe a better question is which states COULD support Sears Dental practices?

It seems to me that those are the states where our input could be most beneficial to legislators.

The bottom line is JOIN the ADA and later when things are a little more stable $$ wise and you have a solid grasp on the loans/mortgages/etc make some type of donation to the ADA's or your state dental societies Political Action Committees(PAC).

By joining the ADA when legislatively they lobby for items pertainign to dentistry it allows them to say that as a whole they represent x% of all dentists, and that makes a difference.

By giving to the State or national PAC, it allows them to make a contribution to a legislator, which when combined with the percentage of dentists they represent can make a persuasive arguement in dentistry's favor.

It sounds rather juvenile, but I've seen first hand how it works on MULTIPLE occassions in my home state of CT. Background on it, in CT, one of the state reps, who sits on the health care policy advisory committee, is a former hygenist turned politician. She took it upon herself to try and be the voice of dentistry for CT and even go outside the reccomendations of the State Dental Board on some proposed legislation that would have directly hurt dentists in CT if it was passed. The PAC in CT was able to mount a large campaign funding drive for this reps opponent, and while ultimately this rep held her seat, the very large sum of money that dentists raised for this reps challleneger was noticed by the reps colleages, and they took notice and started to listen to the dentists, not this renagade rep and the proposed legislation never made it out of committe review.

If we in dentistry can give a united front on issues that could drastically effect the profession, then its much more likely to continue in our favor!

 

[cel083]

I'm glad you guys agree with me cuz as a graduating pharmacist (this year) and a dental student in september of this year, I have been very disappointed by what has become of pharmacy and will take YEARS until it makes the gains it has lost. I'll definetly be dead by then. I agree that MD's would never accept that, and it's OD's unforunately that end up at the wal-Marts of the world. It has cheapened their profession as well. Just go over to the MD forums and check out their critism of optometrists. Many of them don't consider them real doctors. It's really sad.

Well, maybe not MD's/DO's, but PA's/NP's are already doing it. I'm sure everybody has already heard about something similar to this.

http://www.managedcaremag.com/archives/0606/0606.minuteclinic.html

It might be a long time, but I don't think it will be to long before physicians start doing the same. But that is simply my own opinion with absolutely no proof of any kind whatsoever to back it up.

 

[165007]

I'm glad you guys agree with me cuz as a graduating pharmacist (this year) and a dental student in september of this year, I have been very disappointed by what has become of pharmacy and will take YEARS until it makes the gains it has lost. I'll definetly be dead by then. I agree that MD's would never accept that, and it's OD's unforunately that end up at the wal-Marts of the world. It has cheapened their profession as well. Just go over to the MD forums and check out their critism of optometrists. Many of them don't consider them real doctors. It's really sad.

Most OD's wont even consider themselves as real doctors. If you ask them where they go to school, they will say opt. school not medical school.
Optometrists will tell their patients/customers that they are eye doctors because it is easier to understand that way. They would reply differently to someone with a MD, Pharm D, DDS, DPM, or whatever.

 

[OATeater]

Sorry Fly, thats horse-****.

90% of OD consider themselves doctors. Definately in Canada (they have the right to perscribe medicine), and from what I understand for the USA have greater scope of practise.

Your logic comes from the same vein as 'Dentists aren't real doctors.'

You should reevaluate your perception. Ask a dentist, he'll say "I go to dental school' not 'i go to medical school' i go to 'dental medical school.'


Idiot.

 

[armorshell]

You just replied to a 6 month old post. Who's the idiot now?

 

[USU24]

You just replied to a 6 month old post. Who's the idiot now?

 

[C equals]

Even though this is an old thread- just wanted to give my opinion.

Years ago there were dental practices in malls (I mean big shopping malls not strip malls) but the cost of putting in a practice and then paying the high rents and advertising to being in patients have pushed many out of the larger malls. People don't go to shopping malls to get dental care! They go there to shop and have fun. We used to worry about the competition but it seems that these high profile practices have left the malls for one reason or another. Optical and optometry is a bit different. They don't have the stigma of pain associated with them so people go to these for the convenience.

 

[r_u_cool2]

Sears dental is not the biggest threat to our profession. We have a bigger problem which is called the Advanced Dental Hygiene Practitioner. These hygienist, with an additional 14-18 months of school can do everything that dentist can do (ie. fillings, pre-form crowns, extractions, pulpotomies, etc.) except crowns and endo without the supervision of a dentist. This makes dentistry seems like a trade and not a profession. Tomorrow, the state of MN will vote on this issue. Of course the MN Dental association and ADA is against this issue and I hope we are strong enough to defeat it.

 

[xxsuzuki1000xx]

lol, this post is so old... but, lets keep it going... so, any word of what happened r_u_cool2?

_______________________________
Chris NSUCDM2008

dentalgrad.com - connecting dental graduates to great jobs

 

[Affordable Acce]

!

 

[Affordable Acce]

Retail clinics providing affordable access and transparent pricing are on their way. Don't get me wrong, I understand the opposition eloquently voiced by self-aggrandizing dentists who pretend to fight for "patient well-being", when in reality, they just don't want anyone to move their cheese. However, the fact of the matter is that most people in the U.S. (56%) don't make it to the dentist even ONE time per year. Data indicates that the likelihood of visiting a dentist varied by age, family income, ethnicity, and education. Despite demographic biases, accessing regular dental care proved to be a chore even for those from high income families; with only 58% having visited a dentist during the year. Surprisingly, of those with private dental coverage, only 57% actually visited a dentist during the year. [Manski, R. J. and Brown, E. Dental Use, Expenses, Private Dental Coverage, and Changes, 1996 and 2004. Rockville (MD): Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality; 2007. MEPS Chartbook No.17]

What's wrong with more people consuming more dental care? What's wrong with a cost-conscience patient base wanting "discounted prices" for THE MOST ROUTINE dental procedures? Haven't any of you negotiated the purchase of a car, clipped a coupon, or compared health insurance premiums?

Glass houses.

 

[Squished Rat]

Retail clinics providing affordable access and transparent pricing are on their way. Don't get me wrong, I understand the opposition eloquently voiced by self-aggrandizing dentists who pretend to fight for "patient well-being", when in reality, they just don't want anyone to move their cheese. However, the fact of the matter is that most people in the U.S. (56%) don't make it to the dentist even ONE time per year. Data indicates that the likelihood of visiting a dentist varied by age, family income, ethnicity, and education. Despite demographic biases, accessing regular dental care proved to be a chore even for those from high income families; with only 58% having visited a dentist during the year. Surprisingly, of those with private dental coverage, only 57% actually visited a dentist during the year. [Manski, R. J. and Brown, E. Dental Use, Expenses, Private Dental Coverage, and Changes, 1996 and 2004. Rockville (MD): Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality; 2007. MEPS Chartbook No.17]

What's wrong with more people consuming more dental care? What's wrong with a cost-conscience patient base wanting "discounted prices" for THE MOST ROUTINE dental procedures? Haven't any of you negotiated the purchase of a car, clipped a coupon, or compared health insurance premiums?

Glass houses.

Have you ever negotiated the cost of your prescription drugs? How about a surgery? Or even the box of cereal at the grocery store? Price shopping is a different story. If you want to price shop, i think that is your perogative. I don't think you should try to haggle over the price of healthcare. A lot of people talk about dentistry like it is another retail good. While I don't necessairily subscribe to that school of thought, I don't understand why people think price in negotiable. You can't negotiate any other retail purchase prices besides a car. You can compare prices, but no one I know has ever haggled with wal-mart or best buy for cheaper prices.

 

[Affordable Acce]

Have you ever negotiated the cost of your prescription drugs? How about a surgery? Or even the box of cereal at the grocery store? Price shopping is a different story. If you want to price shop, i think that is your perogative. I don't think you should try to haggle over the price of healthcare. A lot of people talk about dentistry like it is another retail good. While I don't necessairily subscribe to that school of thought, I don't understand why people think price in negotiable. You can't negotiate any other retail purchase prices besides a car. You can compare prices, but no one I know has ever haggled with wal-mart or best buy for cheaper prices.

Point is... There is nothing wrong with a consumer-centric model that gives regular folks more access to affordable care. I have never negotiated the cost of prescription drugs, yet I have clearly benefitted from shopping around for more affordable alternatives (WalMart pioneered the $4 generics).

Fact is that general dentistry is a service commodity by business definition. It is highly fragmented with no dominant players, it has low brand recognition, and similar patient deductibles and pricing. Meanwhile, technology has come a long way, allowing dentists (& hygienists) to deliver more predictable patient outcomes for THE MOST ROUTINE dental procedures. Fight it & deny it all you want, but consumer-driven retail dental is gonna happen - even if it means that dentists need to stretch themselves by working a full 40 hour work week to maintain their holier-than-thou prestigious lifestyles.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Point is... There is nothing wrong with a consumer-centric model that gives regular folks more access to affordable care. I have never negotiated the cost of prescription drugs, yet I have clearly benefitted from shopping around for more affordable alternatives (WalMart pioneered the $4 generics).

Fact is that general dentistry is a service commodity by business definition. It is highly fragmented with no dominant players, it has low brand recognition, and similar patient deductibles and pricing. Meanwhile, technology has come a long way, allowing dentists (& hygienists) to deliver more predictable patient outcomes for THE MOST ROUTINE dental procedures. Fight it & deny it all you want, but consumer-driven retail dental is gonna happen - even if it means that dentists need to stretch themselves by working a full 40 hour work week to maintain their holier-than-thou prestigious lifestyles.

I would question these statements on several basis. First there are more dentists retiring each year than are coming out of school. If you are going off your buisness model would indicate a greater need for care.....not competition. The only area this might affect would be those areas of the country with more dentists than are needed. Also you would have to believe that dentists are ignorant to this fact for them to sign up for these Dental Mills. And those that do, probably deserve what they get. As has been previously stated, these places don't care about you, only their bottom line. Seriously there are so many places in this country that you could make a great living along with a great lifestyle why would you sign up for that abuse. Pretty much 95% of the midwest is considered underserved. It takes 3-4 weeks in alot of places just for patients to get seen.

So yes I guess when I am done with the Army I will be able to begin my holier-than-though-prestigious Lifestyle. But not at a dental mill.

PS between the Army and some private practice I work about 55 hours a week.

 

[Affordable Acce]

I would question these statements on several basis. First there are more dentists retiring each year than are coming out of school. If you are going off your buisness model would indicate a greater need for care.....not competition. The only area this might affect would be those areas of the country with more dentists than are needed. Also you would have to believe that dentists are ignorant to this fact for them to sign up for these Dental Mills. And those that do, probably deserve what they get. As has been previously stated, these places don't care about you, only their bottom line. Seriously there are so many places in this country that you could make a great living along with a great lifestyle why would you sign up for that abuse. Pretty much 95% of the midwest is considered underserved. It takes 3-4 weeks in alot of places just for patients to get seen.

So yes I guess when I am done with the Army I will be able to begin my holier-than-though-prestigious Lifestyle. But not at a dental mill.

PS between the Army and some private practice I work about 55 hours a week.

G.I. Joe, my experience has been that these "dental mills" chase profits just as hard as your average for-profit dental shop.

PS - 55 hours a week aint ****. I'm not impressed yet.

 

[aphistis]

G.I. Joe, my experience has been that these "dental mills" chase profits just as hard as your average for-profit dental shop.

PS - 55 hours a week aint ****. I'm not impressed yet.

So how many hours do you spend practicing dentistry every week?

Also, condescending name-calling is not welcome and will not be tolerated.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

G.I. Joe, my experience has been that these "dental mills" chase profits just as hard as your average for-profit dental shop.

PS - 55 hours a week aint ****. I'm not impressed yet.

Dude, I wasn't trying to impress you, because I don't need to. Of coarse everybody chases a profit, the difference is small dental clinics pocket the profit vs. the lg coorporations/shareholders. Autonomy is a wonderfull thing, to bad some are willing to give it up. The previous statement about the coorporation dictating treatment is right on. Just remember that your the one that will get sued if you get in over your head.

Besides if you really want to work for some Dental mill, please be my guest. And one more thing, watch your language, didn't your mother teach you any better.

 

[Affordable Acce]

Dude, I wasn't trying to impress you, because I don't need to. Of coarse everybody chases a profit, the difference is small dental clinics pocket the profit vs. the lg coorporations/shareholders. Autonomy is a wonderfull thing, to bad some are willing to give it up. The previous statement about the coorporation dictating treatment is right on. Just remember that your the one that will get sued if you get in over your head.

Besides if you really want to work for some Dental mill, please be my guest. And one more thing, watch your language, didn't your mother teach you any better.

Dude... There's no difference... If "small dental clinics pocket the profit", what do large corporations/shareholders do with profits? Seems to me they either (i.) pocket it as retained earnings or (ii.) return it to shareholders' pockets in the form of dividends. If you're so hung-up with large corporations and their shareholders, I have to question whether you park your savings. Any chance you've ever owned a mutual fund or a perhaps a share of stock?

Black kettle.

 

[aphistis]

G.I. Joe, my experience has been that these "dental mills" chase profits just as hard as your average for-profit dental shop.

PS - 55 hours a week aint ****. I'm not impressed yet.

So how many hours do you spend practicing dentistry every week?

Still waiting...

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Dude... There's no difference... If "small dental clinics pocket the profit", what do large corporations/shareholders do with profits? Seems to me they either (i.) pocket it as retained earnings or (ii.) return it to shareholders' pockets in the form of dividends. If you're so hung-up with large corporations and their shareholders, I have to question whether you park your savings. Any chance you've ever owned a mutual fund or a perhaps a share of stock?

Black kettle.

Dentists are the most greedy, miserable people on the earth. We only exist to take money from the little guy. We all have huge investments into MT Dew and other Beverage companies so that we can pull all the little peoples miserable teeth once they rot out of their brainless heads and charge them unbelievable amounts of cash as well as receive dividends from Pepsi and Coke. BS

Fact is most of us are good people who are trying to help out those in need, while maintaining a decent lifestyle. There are alot of ways to do this, but it seems the overwhelming number of dentists believe that working at a dental mill is not it. Any dentist can donate his or her time and equipment to either work "gratis" on the less fortunate, or donate their time at a free clinic or dental school. We all do it to some extent. I have yet to meet a dentist that is a heartless money grubbing zombie. Some maybe close, but not entirely, so if you seriously believe the first paragraph I wrote, you're image of reality needs an adjustment.