Second Degree BSN

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I don't think Miss Pickles ever visited this site again after her few initial posts. For me personally, I decided not to do this. When I looked at the cost involved, I realized there's no way I can do it. I'm thinking I might become an EMT instead. I know there's no money in that, but it's better than nothing and it would be an entry into health care to see if I like it.

Outnabout,

I'm sorry to hear that. Which costs are you referring to? The actual program or the pre-reqs?

There are short term programs - ABSN, which limit the overall costs (as opposed to attending a 4yr program).

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I don't think Miss Pickles ever visited this site again after her few initial posts. For me personally, I decided not to do this. When I looked at the cost involved, I realized there's no way I can do it. I'm thinking I might become an EMT instead. I know there's no money in that, but it's better than nothing and it would be an entry into health care to see if I like it.

Sigh. I am not in a position to go back to community college out of pocket just yet, so I am weighing my options with other master's degree programs, or maybe even doing an ADN program. I am not sure what the best option is. I have considered something in the rehab field (PT/OT) or even getting my master's in counseling, which is what I started doing originally. We shall see!
 
Sigh. I am not in a position to go back to community college out of pocket just yet, so I am weighing my options with other master's degree programs, or maybe even doing an ADN program. I am not sure what the best option is. I have considered something in the rehab field (PT/OT) or even getting my master's in counseling, which is what I started doing originally. We shall see!

A master's program costs less than community college?

Ever consider psych nurse? Counseling + Nursing
 
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No, it doesn't cost less, but I would recieve financial aid to help me pay for the costs; I make very little money currently so in general the masters is completely paid for with aid, and I would only have to work enough to cover living costs. If I start classes at CC, I need to pay for all of that out of pocket plus living. And yes, I def have considered psych nursing.


A master's program costs less than community college?

Ever consider psych nurse? Counseling + Nursing
 
No, it doesn't cost less, but I would recieve financial aid to help me pay for the costs; I make very little money currently so in general the masters is completely paid for with aid, and I would only have to work enough to cover living costs. If I start classes at CC, I need to pay for all of that out of pocket plus living. And yes, I def have considered psych nursing.

I guess a masters program it is then. Any masters program near you? :)
 
Here comes the transformation that so many other industries have undergone. ;)

Why Software Is Eating The World by Marc Andreessen

Health care and education, in my view, are next up for fundamental software-based transformation. My venture capital firm is backing aggressive start-ups in both of these gigantic and critical industries. We believe both of these industries, which historically have been highly resistant to entrepreneurial change, are primed for tipping by great new software-centric entrepreneurs.


Software Is Eating All the Jobs Too by Sarah Lacy
 
Do yourself a favor...bone up on your sciences and go to medical school! You will regret becoming a nurse, I can almost guarantee it. I'm sure people on here will attack me with their idealistic/nursing is the best:D attitudes; but there are better opportunities to be had.

Also, the nursing shortage is a myth, unless you live in very rural America.
 
a tech revolution in the healthcare sector will either come in the form of a workable emr system, or in setting up a way to outsource doctors. radiology is already one place where digital systems have made it possible for a doctor to be in india while a patient is in iowa. but its hard to outsource personel that actually touch the patient. robot surgery notwithstanding, you cant completely rely on that for everything. no matter what, a doctor somewhere has to be at the reins. so far i havent seen a robot nurse. im in the lab, and technology is king there, but it hasnt led to layoffs.. just makes it possible for us to manage the ever increasing loads we have to deal with.r we welcome anything that comes along that makes our busy jobs more managable. diagnostic tests that used to take hours now take minutes, and what took minutes becomes easier to run. hand held devices, and machines that are more reliable make things run smoother, but they are far from perfect. there is an intense amoung of regulation and documentation that takes place on a regular basis that ensures we are operating legally and compeletly. its not like most other industries, so when a business entrepenuer comes along and says its the next place they are focusing, unless they have spent time working in healthcare, they really are talking out thier bum at you. additionally, within each branch of healthcare there are different areas for improvement. what revoultionizes the medical laboratory probably wont rock the world for nurses, and vice versa. im in nursing school, and its funny because lab work hasnt featured prominently yet.... which is a strange feeling because i felt like lab was the center of the world before i started in nursing. what i do see happening is nursing becoming oversaturated. i see the day when my lab science degree earns me much more than my nursing degree because there arent lab scientist mills churning out graduates at an amazing pace like there are nursing programs.
 
Pamac makes a good point. Like the lawyers being replaced by eDiscovery automation, specialties are a great target for replacement by technology because of limited scope.

"Radiologists, who can earn over $300,000 a year in America, after 13 years of college education and internship, are among the first to feel the heat. It is not just that the task of scanning tumour slides and X-ray pictures is being outsourced to Indian laboratories, where the job is done for a tenth of the cost. The real threat is that the latest automated pattern-recognition software can do much of the work for less than a hundredth of it."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babb...-intelligence?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ludditelegacy

As for robot nurses? Well, they'll be here too eventually. Here you go Pamac, since you haven't seen a robot nurse:

Toyota unveils robot 'nurses' to help disabled patients out of bed

https://www.google.com/search?aq=f&....,cf.osb&fp=8a23a1eef10fcc7d&biw=1280&bih=937
 
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yes, thats nice that toyota now has a robot nurse that can replace a flesh and blood nurse.... well, acutally....

that robot nurse is really no different than a number of pieces of equipment currently in use. wheelchairs havent replaced nurses, and neither will robots for the forseeable future. if you spend any time in healthcare, you would understand that nursing isnt just a set of tasks that can be set to automation. lets see that robot assess a patient for bedsores, or do any other activity a nurse does over the course of a shift besides move a patient (which many nurses dont have time to do and leave for CNA's or physical therapy). touting a patient moving robot as the beginning of the end for nursing is like saying your roomba vaacuum has revolutionized how you clean your house.

once again, a little bit of shadowing in healthcare rather than assumptions you make from your own analysis would go a long way to helping you understand what goes on in the real world. id love to have more technology at my disposal, especially in my job in the lab. however, you are talking to someone who spends a significant amount of time trying to keep extremely expensive machines running smoothly, and i know how relying on technology to perform critical tasks can have pitfalls. automation is great, until something strange or unexpected happens, and healthcare is all about that out of the ordinary situation that throws you for a loop.
 
yes, thats nice that toyota now has a robot nurse that can replace a flesh and blood nurse.... well, acutally....

that robot nurse is really no different than a number of pieces of equipment currently in use. wheelchairs havent replaced nurses, and neither will robots for the forseeable future. if you spend any time in healthcare, you would understand that nursing isnt just a set of tasks that can be set to automation. lets see that robot assess a patient for bedsores, or do any other activity a nurse does over the course of a shift besides move a patient (which many nurses dont have time to do and leave for CNA's or physical therapy). touting a patient moving robot as the beginning of the end for nursing is like saying your roomba vaacuum has revolutionized how you clean your house.

once again, a little bit of shadowing in healthcare rather than assumptions you make from your own analysis would go a long way to helping you understand what goes on in the real world. id love to have more technology at my disposal, especially in my job in the lab. however, you are talking to someone who spends a significant amount of time trying to keep extremely expensive machines running smoothly, and i know how relying on technology to perform critical tasks can have pitfalls. automation is great, until something strange or unexpected happens, and healthcare is all about that out of the ordinary situation that throws you for a loop.

Totally agree. I have no experience in healthcare as a practitioner, but I unfortunately spent a lot of time in the hospital when I was younger and can tell you from a patient's perspective, nothing replaces the human touch. I can't imagine having to deal with a robot while not feeling well to begin with. How awful.
 
Pamac,

No need to get defensive. You said you'd never seen a nurse robot, so I pointed you to several.

As for diagnostics.... let me introduce you to Dr. Watson. ;)

By the way, you're thinking of "old" robots. Those of yesteryear. Today's robots are more capable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15637262

Doesn't take much imagination to combine Watson's capabilities with modern autonomous robots.

While I will probably not encounter many in my lifetime, if you're planning on working 20-30yrs, you certainly will.
 
a robot nurse would do assessments, charting, put in and remove IVs, perform nursing interventions. the "robot nurses" you found clips for performed a small portion of what nurses, or even CNA's would do. even insisting that those were robot CNA's wouldn't do justice to the work CNA's do moment to moment. lets start with perfecting a mail room courior bot before we get ahead of ourselves with this. i could see a "robot" doctor becoming a reality a lot sooner than a robot nurse, just because of the manual labor that can be involved in many daily activities a nurse provides. i'll clarify befor the flaming begins.... i think a lot of the decisions about a patient that a doctor provides could be performed remotely vs a lot of what a nurse provides. for instance, looking over labs and diagnostic test results, and even communicating with patients could be done using existing technology, but installing an IV or even detangling a line would take resources that would make it prohibitive. i could see how having an expensive doctor working remotely over several locations could seem appealing to bean counters, wheras a nurse on site wouldnt be as cost prohibitive.
 
Surely there would be some public disatisfaction with such a system. I swear the day I walk into a hospital and there are ROBOTs walking around I am leaving that hospital! That just creeps me out.
 
...I swear the day I walk into a hospital and there are ROBOTs walking around I am leaving that hospital! That just creeps me out.

Pyxis has a robot that it uses for certain pharmacy functions...

it cruises around the hospital by itself...

kinda cool
 
Surely there would be some public disatisfaction with such a system. I swear the day I walk into a hospital and there are ROBOTs walking around I am leaving that hospital! That just creeps me out.

I doubt they'd complain as long as they got their warm blankets, ginger-ale and turkey sandwiches as soon as they asked for them.
 
a robot nurse would do assessments, charting, put in and remove IVs, perform nursing interventions. the "robot nurses" you found clips for performed a small portion of what nurses, or even CNA's would do. even insisting that those were robot CNA's wouldn't do justice to the work CNA's do moment to moment. lets start with perfecting a mail room courior bot before we get ahead of ourselves with this. i could see a "robot" doctor becoming a reality a lot sooner than a robot nurse, just because of the manual labor that can be involved in many daily activities a nurse provides. i'll clarify befor the flaming begins.... i think a lot of the decisions about a patient that a doctor provides could be performed remotely vs a lot of what a nurse provides. for instance, looking over labs and diagnostic test results, and even communicating with patients could be done using existing technology, but installing an IV or even detangling a line would take resources that would make it prohibitive. i could see how having an expensive doctor working remotely over several locations could seem appealing to bean counters, wheras a nurse on site wouldnt be as cost prohibitive.

Pamac,

Your perspective on robotics is a very common misperception. A robot doesn't have to perform every function that a specialist performs for specialists to lose their jobs.

Let me explain how this works so that you can get a better perspective on what I'm referring to.

Begin with a hypothetical of 1,000 nurses (or any other specialist in any field) performing a wide variety of functions (lets say 50 functions each) that as a whole, cannot be easily duplicated by a robot.

Now, one or more robots are made (lets say 5) that can perform between 1-3 functions.

That is,

robot A performs functions 1-3,
robot B performs functions 4-6,
robot C performs functions 7-9,
robot D performs functions 10-12,
robot E performs functions 13-15

Clearly, those 5 robots cannot replace a single human nurse than can perform 50 functions.

This is how job loss occurs (by the way, while this example is hypothetical, I have first hand knowledge):

Those 1,000 nurses no longer have to perform those 15 functions (out of the 50 they each perform). Now each nurse performs 35 functions.

1000 nurses x 50 functions = 50,000 functions before robot introduction. 100% nurses requirement.

1000 nurses x 35 functions = 35,000 functions after robot introduction. 70% nurse requirement.

From a management perspective, they needed the 1000 nurses to perform the 50,000 functions, but as you can see, they no longer need 1000 nurses. They can rearrange work around the robot(s) and have the nurses perform the functions that the robots cannot perform.

So after robot introduction, they can eliminate 300 nursing positions (30% of workforce), and still accomplish the same level of work.

You may object and speak to robot malfunction, error, etc. though generally, human "malfunction", error, etc. is higher.

There will always be nurses, just like there are bank tellers today, but tell me, how many bank tellers would there be if there were no ATMs? :)

Injection-Robot.jpg


Bloodbot_large.img_assist_custom.jpg
 
you are a classic analytical mind without the benefit of field experience to temper the theory you are espousing. if you spent a day on a floor watching nurses in actual practice, you would see how thier job involves integration of multiple activities that you insist could be automated. in a factory, that kind of logic works because tasks can be broken down and farmed out. in a health care setting, multiple tasks are completed and integrated. this is especially true in nursing because nursing is all about the big picture. a nurse isnt just walking the patient, he is assessing the patient on many levels. nurses arent just changing out a pad, they are assessing for bed sores. they compile all the information they glean from these activities, and they arent performed in isolation. i see a market for tools that make these tasks easier, but there isnt enough money to provide the kinds of numbers of nurses that we need as is, let alone for the future. automation in the form of bots isnt going to come to the rescue, because to make it worthwhile, you would need so many different bots to perform activities (due to the complexity involved) that the big problem would then be integration of the information... not to mention cost. the plethora of robots dont come cheap, and a robot that just drew blood would be a machine as complex as a space shuttle. nursing is not bank telling, and its not mass production, so throwing out hypotheticals doesnt work. essentially, we see tools that make nursing easier, in the form of things like vital sign monitoring devices, user friendly beds, disposable supplies... but that just free's up nurses to take on more responsibilities.

lets say that we have a catheter bot. catheter bot has a task that is incredibly sensetive, so catheter bot is very complex, very expensive, and really can only place a catheter without doing any assessment. catheter bot isnt useful because its used 4 times a week on a certain floor, so its a waste. its prohibitively expensive, very complex, and underutilized. how is catheter bot's existence going to be justified when you have a nurse on hand that can do the job, and assess, and troubleshoot, and document... oh, and prepare the patient, and educate. so wheras a robot is perfect for putting a bolt on a car in the same place every time with no variation, having a patient off by a centimeter can mean some serious discomfort caused by catheter bot. robots and mechanization are great for the mundane and repetetive tasks, but each patient brings different needs and different variables. everything is essentially a custom approach because each patient is unique. robots and automation have a difficullt time with this.

who uses an ATM anymore? they were useful for about 15 years, now they gather dust.
 
I doubt they'd complain as long as they got their warm blankets, ginger-ale and turkey sandwiches as soon as they asked for them.

I hear you...and that must be annoying, since nurses are trained professionals and not maids/nannies or mothers.

But I want to say those warm blankies when you're all alone and sad and sick at the hospital....they are wonderful. :love:
 
I hear you...and that must be annoying, since nurses are trained professionals and not maids/nannies or mothers.

But I want to say those warm blankies when you're all alone and sad and sick at the hospital....they are wonderful. :love:

Agreed.

Most nurses are happy to help with the creature comforts of their patients. I certainly don't feel any less professional for doing something for another human that they can't do for his/herself.

It's just THIS kind of patient/family....

[YOUTUBE]TRTkCHE1sS4[/YOUTUBE]

Particularly when your other patient is herniating/exsanguinating/hypoxic etc.

On a cautionary note to those considering nursing as a career (not directed toward any individual)- these patients are not a rarity and no wunder-robot would help.
 
Pamac,

I may lack the healthcare experience, but not the visibility and potential of future technology. ;)

Your objections are noted, but to my mind, I've heard these same objections many times before - integrated work, different requirements, etc.

I've been in hospitals where nurses came in to assess/monitor, and hospitals where as a patient I was under constant surveillance by camera and medical devices - which meant less nurses were required.

Yes, the nurses responsibilities change as certain tasks are eliminated, but that's the point, and it's how one achieves staff reduction.

You're still young so you'll be alive to witness it yourself.

P.S. ATM was an example for those reading this. As you pointed out, they're used less today. ;)

you are a classic analytical mind without the benefit of field experience to temper the theory you are espousing. if you spent a day on a floor watching nurses in actual practice, you would see how thier job involves integration of multiple activities that you insist could be automated. in a factory, that kind of logic works because tasks can be broken down and farmed out. in a health care setting, multiple tasks are completed and integrated. this is especially true in nursing because nursing is all about the big picture. a nurse isnt just walking the patient, he is assessing the patient on many levels. nurses arent just changing out a pad, they are assessing for bed sores. they compile all the information they glean from these activities, and they arent performed in isolation. i see a market for tools that make these tasks easier, but there isnt enough money to provide the kinds of numbers of nurses that we need as is, let alone for the future. automation in the form of bots isnt going to come to the rescue, because to make it worthwhile, you would need so many different bots to perform activities (due to the complexity involved) that the big problem would then be integration of the information... not to mention cost. the plethora of robots dont come cheap, and a robot that just drew blood would be a machine as complex as a space shuttle. nursing is not bank telling, and its not mass production, so throwing out hypotheticals doesnt work. essentially, we see tools that make nursing easier, in the form of things like vital sign monitoring devices, user friendly beds, disposable supplies... but that just free's up nurses to take on more responsibilities.

lets say that we have a catheter bot. catheter bot has a task that is incredibly sensetive, so catheter bot is very complex, very expensive, and really can only place a catheter without doing any assessment. catheter bot isnt useful because its used 4 times a week on a certain floor, so its a waste. its prohibitively expensive, very complex, and underutilized. how is catheter bot's existence going to be justified when you have a nurse on hand that can do the job, and assess, and troubleshoot, and document... oh, and prepare the patient, and educate. so wheras a robot is perfect for putting a bolt on a car in the same place every time with no variation, having a patient off by a centimeter can mean some serious discomfort caused by catheter bot. robots and mechanization are great for the mundane and repetetive tasks, but each patient brings different needs and different variables. everything is essentially a custom approach because each patient is unique. robots and automation have a difficullt time with this.

who uses an ATM anymore? they were useful for about 15 years, now they gather dust.
 
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