"Secret to Success"

[CardiacIntensivist]

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My uncle, who is severely ill, always told me that the secret to success is to look at each day as a new opportunity to be your very best. Set high goals and give it 100%. Just thought I'd share it with you guys. Anyone else like to share? Thank you.

Your uncle has awesome advice 👍👍👍. Sorry to hear that he is ill.

 

[NickNaylor]

The more you talk cole, the more I wonder... If you have you ever encountered any hardship in your life at all. Tha statement above scream of naivety.. and oh you sound like a hater.👎

Dawg, you don't even know me. Talk to me for 10 minutes before you assume that I'm a super tool.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm not saying they should be prevented from applying by any means, and, like you, I'm impressed with the dedication to the cause. I know I wouldn't be that strong-willed. That said, I can only imagine that the road will become more difficult as one advances through the process. If it was that difficult to do well in undergrad and get accepted to medical school, how much more difficult is it going to be during med school and to get into a residency?

Things get easier, not harder, as the level of training increases. Personally, I would rather spend my time doing something else that I enjoy (even if it's less than the perceived enjoyment from medicine) and was more successful at rather than struggling constantly throughout the training process (as I said before, this idea applies to anything in life - we're just talking about the particular goal of pursuing medicine right now). But perhaps I just totally don't understand what it's like being re-applicant, which is entirely likely since I don't know any re-applicants personally.

A big question here is why the app flopped in the first place. Did you bust your ass, focus on premedicine and the MCAT all through college, and then pull a 2.5 and an 18 on the MCAT? In that case I agree with you, the applicant should find something he's good at rather than pounding that square block into a round hole. I might also be fine with a high apptitude applicant getting rejected for college spanning lazieness. The issue, though, is that a lot of bad apps happen not because the applicant lacks the appitude for medical school or even the drive, but because he wasn't focused on the goal of medicine to the exclusion of all else.

Got serious about studying in your Junior year? Too late. Low GPA because you thought you wanted to be an Aerospace Engineer? That's a shame. Had to work two jobs to put yourself through school? No leeway. Whole family died and then you got cancer? Whatever happened to you your GPA and MCAT will be seen in exactly the same light as a full time, healthy student at a private school (average GPA 3.8) with no extracirricular responsibilities, no financial worries, private tutors hired by his parents, and a strong understanding of the medical admissions process insitilled at birth.

The system is designed to select for the children of doctors and, to a lesser extent, the children of wealthy type A parents in general. A lot of more qualified applicants, meanwhile, are left on the outside looking in because they made mistakes that they didn't even know WERE mistakes until it was too late. Whenever someone like that reapplies and gets in I'm all for it. Also, for those students, the hardest part of their career is going to be their admissions process.

 

[gravitywave]

Being a good med student is a lot like being a good porn star. You have to be unrealistic in your enthusiasm for all activities no matter what, be willing to experiment now and then, and occasionally take it up the butt.

this is awesome

 

[Parts Unknown]

Hey guys, I just wanted to know some of the best advice you guys ever received in your life about "secret to success", whether it being about medical school, being a doctor, or about life in general.

Father's advice before college: "You can play as much as you want, you just have to work a lot harder than you play."

 

[Techmed07]

Dawg, you don't even know me. Talk to me for 10 minutes before you assume that I'm a super tool.

I don't think you are a super tool lol.. Just thought that last comment and some of your posts are tollish. I am sure you would agree.

A big question here is why the app flopped in the first place. Did you bust your ass, focus on premedicine and the MCAT all through college, and then pull a 2.5 and an 18 on the MCAT? In that case I agree with you, the applicant should find something he's good at rather than pounding that square block into a round hole. I might also be fine with a high apptitude applicant getting rejected for college spanning lazieness. The issue, though, is that a lot of bad apps happen not because the applicant lacks the appitude for medical school or even the drive, but because he wasn't focused on the goal of medicine to the exclusion of all else.

Got serious about studying in your Junior year? Too late. Low GPA because you thought you wanted to be an Aerospace Engineer? That's a shame. Had to work two jobs to put yourself through school? No leeway. Whole family died and then you got cancer? Whatever happened to you your GPA and MCAT will be seen in exactly the same light as a full time, healthy student at a private school (average GPA 3.8) with no extracirricular responsibilities, no financial worries, private tutors hired by his parents, and a strong understanding of the medical admissions process insitilled at birth.

The system is designed to select for the children of doctors and, to a lesser extent, the children of wealthy type A parents in general. A lot of more qualified applicants, meanwhile, are left on the outside looking in because they made mistakes that they didn't even know WERE mistakes until it was too late. Whenever someone like that reapplies and gets in I'm all for it. Also, for those students, the hardest part of their career is going to be their admissions process.

QFT, I also feel this constitutes the majority of reapplicants. I am grateful for SDN because without it I could only imagine what my grades and my MCAT score would look like. The whole application process is made for people from affulent and knowledgeable backgrounds. I am still in shock on how I made it this far.

 

[Overload]

Success is just a non-variable factor that is not measurable at all. Everyone has different associations on what success is. Some think it has to do with money, others think that success is defined as in doing what you love. A janitor can be successful, and so can a doctor be.

In terms of money I've learnt that success is just a way how you are reflected by people. I've never considered myself to be 'successful' for there's way more to do in my life. However, if people associate you with being a 'successful person', believe me, they will do whatever it takes to take advantage of it. Forget about success; just be yourself.

Be passionate about something, do what you want to do, and most importantly, have fun!

 

[mmmcdowe]

A big question here is why the app flopped in the first place. Did you bust your ass, focus on premedicine and the MCAT all through college, and then pull a 2.5 and an 18 on the MCAT? In that case I agree with you, the applicant should find something he's good at rather than pounding that square block into a round hole. I might also be fine with a high apptitude applicant getting rejected for college spanning lazieness. The issue, though, is that a lot of bad apps happen not because the applicant lacks the appitude for medical school or even the drive, but because he wasn't focused on the goal of medicine to the exclusion of all else.

Got serious about studying in your Junior year? Too late. Low GPA because you thought you wanted to be an Aerospace Engineer? That's a shame. Had to work two jobs to put yourself through school? No leeway. Whole family died and then you got cancer? Whatever happened to you your GPA and MCAT will be seen in exactly the same light as a full time, healthy student at a private school (average GPA 3.8) with no extracirricular responsibilities, no financial worries, private tutors hired by his parents, and a strong understanding of the medical admissions process insitilled at birth.

The system is designed to select for the children of doctors and, to a lesser extent, the children of wealthy type A parents in general. A lot of more qualified applicants, meanwhile, are left on the outside looking in because they made mistakes that they didn't even know WERE mistakes until it was too late. Whenever someone like that reapplies and gets in I'm all for it. Also, for those students, the hardest part of their career is going to be their admissions process.

Wise, wise words. 1/3 of my class has at least one parent that is a physician. One admissions member I interviewed with along the way went as far to say "You're father is a doctor, that's great. We think it's in the genes."

 

[Techmed07]

Wise, wise words. 1/3 of my class has at least one parent that is a physician. One admissions member I interviewed with along the way went as far to say "You're father is a doctor, that's great. We think it's in the genes."

Wow... thats crazy.

 

[wanderer]

I wonder if the 1/3 thing is consistent across all schools, or if it varies based on prestige or anything along those lines.

 

[Perrotfish]

I wonder if the 1/3 thing is consistent across all schools, or if it varies based on prestige or anything along those lines.?

I know that the children of doctors make up a pretty big percentage of medicine in general. It might vary between school's but that school isn't exactly a fluke.

 

[Geneticist]

What percentage of medical school students consist of first-generation college students? Less than 10%?

 

[Techmed07]

What percentage of medical school students consist of first-generation college students? Less than 10%?

Yeah I bet around there...

 

[Geneticist]

Yeah I bet around there...

Sweetness. I'll be using that to my advantage...

 

[hcj]

There are plenty of things that make it difficult to do well in undergrad that have nothing to do with one's mental and intellectual capacity. Demanding full-time jobs, family members, personal illness, etc. etc. Some of these things are temporary, or a one-time event. One bad semester can trash your GPA forever.

Maybe it's just my perspective as a non-traditional applicant, but I honestly think medical school and residency will be easier than the last 6 years that I've spent working 50-60+ hours a week at a demanding job, getting my undergrad, managing multiple volunteering gigs, juggling some family caregiving at different times over the years, and trying to climb out of a 15-year-old GPA hole. Everyone I know who is already a practicing physician swears that the hardest part is getting in. Once you're in, you just have a lot of work to get done.

If we're talking about limitations of intelligence or maturity, I would completely agree with you. However, there are plenty of reapplicants who didn't get in the first time for simple mistakes like bad choice of schools or submitting too late in the cycle. Granted, someone who's smart and mature will research the application process and cover all their bases... but these are easy mistakes to make if you don't avail yourself of all the information that's out there.

👍👍👍 I'm so glad someone said this. Some of you just will never understand how easy you've had it and how crazy it sounds when you whine on SDN. Not talking about anyone in this thread specifically, but Dianyla is so right.

 

[Frazier]

Wise, wise words. 1/3 of my class has at least one parent that is a physician. One admissions member I interviewed with along the way went as far to say "You're father is a doctor, that's great. We think it's in the genes."

Wow... thats crazy.

They may be correct - as long as the potential for intelligence is inheritable [to some degree] from one's parents.
...Those damn doctors' kids always seemed to be winning the spelling bee and geography bee in elementary school. 😡

Of the three smartest kids that I went to my elementary school (and I mean these SOB's were smart!), each ended up going to medical school (one was an early admission from undergrad and is now in his 4th year, the other two are in their second year). Interestingly, two of them are sons of doctors and the other is the son of a dentist. In high school, the respective "genius" of my grade also went to medical school - his father is a chemistry teacher [but both of his uncles are doctors].

The 4 guys above are all at MD schools. I know 3 other people from my high school that were never "top" students and each attends my state's DO school.

 

[wanderer]

Sweetness. I'll be using that to my advantage...

I think it helped me a little bit.

I'm basing this from minor comments heard from a few interviewers/deans I spoke to throughout the cycle. My guess is that it could mean nothing at some schools, and mean a fair amount at others, but it's impossible to know if they asked about it because they really cared or because they were trying to get to know me/make conversation.

 

[NickNaylor]

Sweetness. I'll be using that to my advantage...

It's something that is more or less implied on the app. I think I've only been asked about it directly once or twice, but I think it's a definite advantage if only just to be different. Same thing with having non-doctor parents.

 

[gettheleadout]

It's something that is more or less implied on the app. I think I've only been asked about it directly once or twice, but I think it's a definite advantage if only just to be different. Same thing with having non-doctor parents.

You're a first generation college student? Damn, way to set a standard for your kids' future performance 👍

 

[TXKnight]

I understand the conclusion you're drawing here, but just because you pass a certain point where you meet a standard doesn't obfuscate the process of you getting there. If it takes someone 4 tries to get accepted to medical school (for whatever reason) does this mean that the moment they matriculate they should be considered to have the same aptitude as their classmates? Of course not, because although they have demonstrated traits such as perseverance and determination, the fact that they overcame whatever was holding them back doesn't mean they eliminated it, especially if it's a personality trait or something else inherent. Without going into the predictability of the test and all that jazz, I would say that someone who has to take the MCAT 4 times to get a score good enough to get them an acceptance might have reason to worry about the USMLE Steps. No one gets 4 tries at Step 1, and while its possible that the person finally, after that third MCAT attempt, identified and corrected whatever issue they were having with their test taking skills/knowledge base, it is equally likely that they just steadily increased their scores by studying more/practicing/etc...

This logic here is kind of ridiculous and I really think I does not hold water. You are basically saying that people that struggled to get into medical school and graduate are still not as "fit" to practice medicine. How can you say that? What do you base that on? where's the USMLE scores vs Acceptance attempts graph. In addition, you can interpolate and say: all those who did not get A in anatomy,physiology and biochem are unfit for med school or will never be good physicians. I mean, I am assuming you are a smart premed, you should know better, IMHO.

 

[gettheleadout]

This logic here is kind of ridiculous and I really think I does not hold water. You are basically saying that people that struggled to get into medical school and graduate are still not as "fit" to practice medicine. How can you say that? What do you base that on? where's the USMLE scores vs Acceptance attempts graph. In addition, you can interpolate and say: all those who did not get A in anatomy,physiology and biochem are unfit for med school or will never be good physicians. I mean, I am assuming you are a smart premed, you should know better, IMHO.

Not to be defensive, but that is definitely not what I said. Read it again. I said someone that struggles to get into medical school cannot be seen as having the aptitude as their classmates. The issue is not their ability to practice medicine in the future and how "fit" they are for that. I agree it would be pretty assuming to make a statement about that, especially knowing as little about the hypothetical re-applicant here as we would without knowing them personally.

The point is that just because they were accepted on a repeated try doesn't mean that they eliminated whatever was holding them back the first time(s). I suggested the MCAT as an example; maybe they couldn't get a high enough score and got lucky on a retake, resulting in an acceptance. Maybe they have horrible people skills but got lucky and didn't screw up a particular interview, resulting in an acceptance. Neither of these cases means they've conquered whatever problem could give them trouble in the future, before they even practice, such as passing the USMLE (assuming bad test taking skills as the problem with their MCAT attempts, not suggesting an MCAT/USMLE correlation) or matching to a residency position they want.

For all anyone knows, every medical student is as fit as their peers to practice medicine. But even assuming this, it would be silly to assume they all have the same academic/social/whatever aptitude. There is a top student in a medical class and a bottom student, not just in grades but in any aspect. Does this mean there is a difference in their "fitness" to practice? Of course not. If you are accepted to medical school, a panel of qualified experts has declared that you have the potential to practice medicine as well as every other acceptee. More specifically, I am in no way suggesting that there is a difference in "fitness" to practice between a re-applicant who gets into medical school and a first time applicant. To claim otherwise would indeed be stupid. I hope this has cleared up what I meant.

 

[Political]

The point is that just because they were accepted on a repeated try doesn't mean that they eliminated whatever was holding them back the first time(s). I suggested the MCAT as an example; maybe they couldn't get a high enough score and got lucky on a retake, resulting in an acceptance. Maybe they have horrible people skills but got lucky and didn't screw up a particular interview, resulting in an acceptance. Neither of these cases means they've conquered whatever problem could give them trouble in the future, before they even practice, such as passing the USMLE (assuming bad test taking skills as the problem with their MCAT attempts, not suggesting an MCAT/USMLE correlation) or matching to a residency position they want.

typically re applicants have to better themselves as a person to be even considered given a second shot.

For the example you give; the probability that someone gets a good score on the MCAT, especially on a second try, because of luck is utter nonsense. It takes a good honest effort to do well on it, it takes relearning material that's YEARS old, it requires defeating the mentality that "oh i didnt get into med school the first time, why should i even try" it needs you to understand and accept that whatever you did before was utterly wrong and requires change, whether it be through study habits, interpersonal skills, etc.

In all honesty, i think re applicants are more deserving of respect than most traditional applicants, they have the balls to enhance an application that encompassed 4 years of their lives, within a year. For them its a necessity to conquer whatever problem they had during their previous ap cycle, and prove themselves better.

EDIT: i forgot to mention how much i miss your patrick star avatar :'[

 

[hiyaman]

It's something that is more or less implied on the app. I think I've only been asked about it directly once or twice, but I think it's a definite advantage if only just to be different. Same thing with having non-doctor parents.

What?! That makes you different? I thought that made you normal...

 

[Musclemass]

typically re applicants have to better themselves as a person to be even considered given a second shot.

For the example you give; the probability that someone gets a good score on the MCAT, especially on a second try, because of luck is utter nonsense. It takes a good honest effort to do well on it, it takes relearning material that's YEARS old, it requires defeating the mentality that "oh i didnt get into med school the first time, why should i even try" it needs you to understand and accept that whatever you did before was utterly wrong and requires change, whether it be through study habits, interpersonal skills, etc.

In all honesty, i think re applicants are more deserving of respect than most traditional applicants, they have the balls to enhance an application that encompassed 4 years of their lives, within a year. For them its a necessity to conquer whatever problem they during their previous ap cycle, and prove themselves better.

EDIT: i forgot to mention how much i miss your patrick star avatar :'[

It's a fine line between being hard working and persistent vs irrationally obstinate. It's not something most people can see in themselves.

There's fairness in the system to the extent that it gives another chance to people who fall short of the mark the first time around. On the other hand, the bar IS high and the system is also designed to reject people deemed to have less potential than others. Someone who misses the mark needs to accept, at some point, that their aspirations may need to change. That's my gripe with the Caribbean schools, they are really preying on the blind optimism of people who really ought not have so much optimism.

And back on the ground, I congratulate reapps who get accepted and hope they realize that many of them are at a competitive disadvantage relative to their future classmates who made it the first time. Usually for a variety of reasons.

 

[Political]

There's fairness in the system to the extent that it gives another chance to people who fall short of the mark the first time around. On the other hand, the bar IS high and the system is also designed to reject people deemed to have less potential than others. Someone who misses the mark needs to accept, at some point, that their aspirations may need to change. That's my gripe with the Caribbean schools, they are really preying on the blind optimism of people who really ought not have so much optimism.

Well thats not always the case, my cousin who didnt accepted last cycle was pushed into going to the Caribbean, mind you she was really bright, she went to Barnard had a 3.8 and 34 mcat but didnt have the EC's and wasn't broad with her apps (mostly nyc schools and top 20), but she came from a family of Indian (rather bangalli) doctors and though most bangalli doctors think very lowly of caribbean medical schools (my parents included), its alot less shameful for them if she goes somewhere than nowhere and forced her into the Caribbean.

Its situations like these that im so thankful for finding sdn, if i hadn't, i would be in the same position shes in right now in a couple of years (if i dont land a spot) and would be completely ignorant of the horrendous residency prospects that fmgs have.

but i digress

 

[Musclemass]

mind you she was really bright, she went to Barnard had a 3.8 and 34 mcat but didnt have the EC's and wasn't broad with her apps (mostly nyc schools and top 20)

The end of this kinda contradicts the beginning. Sadly, it sounds like she wasn't smart enough to check it out for herself and prepare herself properly. Surely such information and guidance is available at Barnard. No one's fault but her own on that score.

its alot less shameful for them if she goes somewhere than nowhere and forced her into the Caribbean.

Wow.

Its situations like these that im so thankful for finding sdn,

There are no secrets about how to get in to med school, or most other things for that matter. But the information won't find you, everyone needs to do their own investigation.

I wish your cousin well, it sounds like she has more than a few obstacles to overcome.

 

[gettheleadout]

typically re applicants have to better themselves as a person to be even considered given a second shot.

For the example you give; the probability that someone gets a good score on the MCAT, especially on a second try, because of luck is utter nonsense. It takes a good honest effort to do well on it, it takes relearning material that's YEARS old, it requires defeating the mentality that "oh i didnt get into med school the first time, why should i even try" it needs you to understand and accept that whatever you did before was utterly wrong and requires change, whether it be through study habits, interpersonal skills, etc.

In all honesty, i think re applicants are more deserving of respect than most traditional applicants, they have the balls to enhance an application that encompassed 4 years of their lives, within a year. For them its a necessity to conquer whatever problem they had during their previous ap cycle, and prove themselves better.

EDIT: i forgot to mention how much i miss your patrick star avatar :'[

I mean if someone gets a 28 on the MCAT and they retake and happen to get a 30 because their practice test scores had a wide range and they happened to get lucky with the material their particular test covered (familiarity with passage matter can make a difference of a couple points, at least according to people in the MCAT forum,) that doesn't mean they've actually corrected whatever problem they had with their test taking, as much as it means they had studied the first time, so they didn't have to relearn years old material again, and got luckier the second time. They had a problem with preparation which they didn't necessarily correct because their retake only went up a little bit and they didn't do well enough the first time.

Also I think for some applicants its not necessarily a "better yourself as a person to get in" thing, and I think it would be hard for adcoms to judge that, apart from an applicant having no service or whatever, but it can be a straight numbers game like the MCAT scenario. I also think my interview trouble example holds water. Good applicant + bad interviewing skills = rejection first time, second time: good applicant + bad interviewing skills + interviewer with similarly bad personal skills (doesn't pick up on applicant's bad skills) = overlooked interpersonal issues and an acceptance.

I'm just saying that its far to overarching to say that a re-applicant has the same aptitude as their peers in medical school in any aspect simply because we don't know enough about why they had to reapply and why they got rejected/accepted and when. It doesn't matter what the reason is, something made the difference and we can't know if it won't be an issue in the future. I'm not saying they have lower aptitude in any way, just that we can't claim they are the same.

Also, I may bring back the Dr. Patrick avatar at some point. 🙂