Seeking desperate advice...

[FutureNSXDent]

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Ok, so here is the dilemma. I am a Cali resident and wish to eventually practice in Cali. I have been accepted to a school in the east coast as well as USC. Even though the PBL program does not appeal to me at all (I personally cannot learn in that kind of program), but after talking to several dentist and students, they all said that it would be to my advantage to go to a school in cali if i wish to practice here after graduation. So here is my questions:

1) If I go to dental school in the east coast, will I have to take the NERB or can I take California license exam without taking NERB?

2) For those of you who struggled with the similar problem in the past (being from Ca and went to dental school elsewhere, but decide to practice in cali), was it hard for you to find an associateship/partnership after returrning to cali? Because I assume you have to start from scratch, ie, finding patients and re-establish the network. What would you suggest if you can do it over again?

3) And lastly, obviously the subject tested on NERB and CA license exam are different, but to what extent are they different? Meaning, will I have to learn the new concept or will it just be slightly different that we can adjust to, ie, carving the shape of tooth (round vs. square, etc)

The dentist I talked to also said that which school you go to doesn't matter when you start practicing. Some methods you learn in school won't be used, ie, for amalgam filling, he said the way it was taught in his dental school is to take a big rubber and place it over the mouth, with a hole into the mouth. More importantly, it's your clinical skills that will attract the patients, not which school you graduated from. With that said, I know USC has a decent clinical program, but I am little rusted on their PBL program.

I need to make my deposit into USC by 5/8, so please please shed some light on this issue if you have any suggestions or opinion on this, I would sincerely appreciate it.

NSXDent

 

[FMLizard]

I think the PBL curriculum, from what I have heard, sounds great. PBL was first made poplular by B-Schools and Law schools as a way of providing students with a more hands-on and real world applicable education. As a current business student applying to dental school soon, I can say that for my business education, I really enjoyed the PBL type courses that I took. When I apply to dental school, I will be strongly considering PBL schools such as IU and USC (except for that tuition....ye gods 😱 ) If the east coast school is markedly cheaper, go there, otherwise head to SC.

 

[agutier3]

NSX-

I am a pre-dent such as yourself, so I can't provide you with many of the answers that you seek. It would be better to ask current dental students as well as dentists on their opinions.

However, I believe that if you study in the northeast, and want to practice in California....then you don't need to take the NERB's. Where you want to practice dictates what exam you should take. This is just my opinion and should not be taken as absolute fact. But that seems to me to be the most logical answer to your question. Anyone know for sure?

Also, I wanted to address your concern about going to an out-of-state school. It seems that you are really worried about not being able to pass the CA board exam. However, I will tell you that this is unfounded. Although CA may have one of the toughest licensure exams (from what I hear), if you have graduated from an accredited dental school, there is no reason for you to be worried. There are many dentists in CA who have studied dentistry elsewhere. Heck, my aunt is a foreign dentist and she passed it with no problems. Of course, it all depends on each individual and their preparation.

My suggestion to you is that instead of worrying about which school will help you pass some exam/test 4 yrs from now, choose a school where you believe you will be most happy. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you've accepted Columbia's offer right? If that is the case, then you really have a very BIG difference in the manner in which you will be taught dentistry (traditional vs. PBL). Which do you prefer? This should be the school that you attend. Good luck!

 

[tinker bell]

I think you should check your east coast school alumni records. CA board says that only 50% of those who attend schools outside of CA pass the board first time.
Some east coast schools are good, some just don't teach you the way to pass CA board at all.
Beside that, the pain of finding board patients, bringing your instruments to the test center, etc...All are very difficult. I remember seeing my friends flying patients from the east coast, paying for their hotels, food, entertainement, etc....It's so much trouble. I would rather take the pain of PBL than doing all that.

Harvard is doing PBL also, and I believe their students are doing fine.

When I interviewed at Case, my interviewer told me that PBL is a very good program, and it should be the way to go. I have no idea about the PBL thing. But if other ppl can do it, it shouldn't be that bad.

 

[FutureNSXDent]

A big thanks to everyone who responded. I am very encouraged to hear honest response from those who posted. At this point I am evenly split btw Columbia (you were right Augtier) and USC.

FM- It's true that PBL is a great program, but ofcourse not everyone is fond of it. I for one, don't fit in PBL, but I am sure there are others who loves it. You may want to check out Harvard, USC, U. Indiana, (and there is one more school). For all these schools have PBL programs that may suit you well. I also got an interview at U. Indiana but turned it down upon finding out it's a PBL program. However, the scenario with USC is different because it's a cali school, and just that fact alone some difference.

Augtier- You are right about the state exam, you should take the exam according to what state you want to practice. I am so much worried about passing the ca board exam (should I go to Columbia, I am confident they will prepare me well, if not more), but rather, I am more concerned about re-establishing my connections as well as patients. It's like having to start everything over from scratch. My problem is that I would MUCH rather stay in cali, but I just don't think PBL is suitable for me, I prefer the old-style lec method.

Tink- You are right. The pain of finding patients, re-establishing connection in cali after having gone to columbia for 4 years will be tough, and that is my main concern for not wanting to leave. You pinpointed my concern, but PBL isn't for everyone. (I specifically talked to some students and I also have friends at USC), they all told me that you either like it or don't. There is not a middle ground.

So it's mainly down to the PBL and having to re-establishing patients/connections that is stressing me, I simply cannot decide.

ps-I've also tried to list the pros/cons of both school, but still can't decide even after that.

pps-Has anyone ever had this experience of know of anyone who had this similar dilemma before? If so, could you please shed some experience? THanks!!!

NSXDent

 

[Krony]

My feeling is that going out of state and passing the CA boards will be less of a hassle than spending two years in a PBL program if this isn't your style. I know my best learning takes place with a textbook in a quiet room. Personally I'd avoid USC at all costs because of the cost. And Columbia is not a bad alternative.

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by FutureNSXDent

1) If I go to dental school in the east coast, will I have to take the NERB or can I take California license exam without taking NERB?

3) And lastly, obviously the subject tested on NERB and CA license exam are different, but to what extent are they different? Meaning, will I have to learn the new concept or will it just be slightly different that we can adjust to, ie, carving the shape of tooth (round vs. square, etc)

NSXDent

1. No, you don't have to take the NERB if you don't want to. Most likely your dental school does not require the NERB for graduation. You can graduate, pack up and go back to Cal., and register to take the California boards since you've decided no other state can possibly compare. We have some California kids in our class (6 or 7) and some of them are planning to take the NERB next year since they'll be all set up to take it anyways (patients from school, use of the school's facility and instruments, forced NERB preparation from the school - even though it's not a required exam, etc). Who knows where life can take you, it's probably not a bad idea on their part.

3. I don't think the subjects on the NERB and Cali Exam are any different. A class II amalgam prep is probably cut the same in NY as it is in Cali. What I hear is different about each of these exams is what you have to do for them (like you have to do endo on a plastic tooth for NERBS, but on a real extracted tooth for Florida) and the stress surrounding them. I think part of taking the Cali boards is how prepared you are for the non-dental nonsense - how you set up your instruments, put the napkin on the patient, etc. Again, I'm not 100% sure, I'll know more this fall when my friends actually start looking into registering for it.

Practicing dentistry in California is not limited to current California residents only. We have New Yorkers in our class who are doing a residency in Cali for the sole purpose of wanting to move out there and practice in Cali. One thing to consider that might help alleviate some of your stress is a residency in California after attending an East coast school. You can't graduate on May 15, take the Cali exam on June 1, and start practicing on June 10 in a beach-front practice. It doesn't work that fast. There is a gap between when you graduate and when you take the exam, and then it takes time to find out if you passed. This waiting period can be months (3+). Some of my Cali. classmates are considering doing a residency in California so they'll have easier access to potentital board patients, instruments and equipment, and be able to make some money and continue practicing during those waiting periods. This way, if they fail on the first try, they have board patients from the residency ready to go for the second try. If you do a residency, you'll also have an opportunity to network for a year. Here on the east coast, potential employers seek residents completing their residencies to come and join them in private practice. The doctors you will work with at your residency will know of opportunities as well. It'll also give you a year to join the California Dental Society and local dental society to look for a job through them. One of my friends from Cali. is seriously looking to do a residency because of these reasons, even though his father is a big-time dentist in San Francisco.

To me, doing the 1 year residency sounds like the best bet for you, given the circumstances you mentioned - not liking PBL, etc. Also, to do a residency, you only need to have graduated from dental school. YOu don't need to have passed NERB, WREB, etc. in order to take a residency in a different state.

 

[FutureNSXDent]

hey griffin,

Thank you very much for the informative respond, the option of going into residency never occured in my mind. Now that you mention it, I am strongly considering that.

I know from interview that most columbia graduate (if you wish to pursue general) go on to GPR, close to 80% actually, what sources i heard during interview. But do you have to apply for the GPR? What if your grades are not good enough? like barely passing the class, can you still get into GPR program?

Lastly, just wondering what your take would be if you were in my shoe, just like to get some opinion on this situation...thanks!!

NSXDent