Self-medicating with Antibiotics

[DollyyLlama]

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Another update:
Today I was at work with Dr. Owner for the first time since the bite. He looked at my hand (which looks better than yesterday), said Pssh, and that it wasn't bad enough to merit a doctor visit. He showed me the scars on his forearms and hands and said, "This will happen a lot in your career, you can't go running to the doctor every time." I said, "Really?" and he said "You're going to run up someone's worker's comp premiums that way." I asked, "What should I have done?" and he said "Just clean it out."

That was discouraging. I wasn't surprised he felt that way, but surprised that he said it so directly. My co-workers assured me that making people feel guilty for treating injuries is the boss' typical reaction. They assured me that I did the right thing (even the ones who suggested I self-medicate support my going if that what's I choose).

I felt like I'd disappointed Dad or something.. it made me doubt my judgement. I don't mind too much if he disagrees with me at this point- I only have a few months left there before I move- but if this had happened before I requested and received a LOR from him, I'd be more concerned.

 

[Ben and Me]

He sounds like a cheap jerk who thinks his near-minimum wage employees are expendable. Take a lesson from him--you'll get better staff (and have happier clients) if you DON'T treat your future staff like he does.

 

[thereservoirdog]

He really does sound like a cheap jerk. I would have told him off right there, you can't say things like that. Don't feel guilty, ANY bite that breaks the skin warrants a visit, you're not the one that has to worry about worker's comp.

 

[sumstorm]

I am sorry he said something like that. He can be held liable if it did go bad and statements like that were known, and technically it is illegal to discourage, either directly or indirectly, employees for seeking treatment for injuries. Oh, and I worked in a zoo for 5 year directly handling all sorts of animals in very stressful public presentations and televised programs. I have ZERO scars (and only a handful of bites). I hope to never think that scars that obviously result from stressed animals reacting as animals do (or even just crazy animals) are badges of honor or experience.

In a dog training group I am involved in, we joke about trainers who brag about bites. For the sheer number of aggression cases we deal with, we as a group have very few bites because we are proactive in preventing injuries, for our sake and for our animal's sake.

Also, in the past 2 years one of our three vets has recieved wounds, which were from a cat's claws. I was bit in the face (brow), and one other tech was bit on the hand (owner's fault) and we have had one pet owner bit (same as the animal that bit the tech) which was because the owner grabbed her cat, and it bit and wouldn't let go, and the tech rushed to help, getting bit herself. I attribute a lot of that to being cautious and taking the 'easier' route with animals that are obviousl stressed at the clinic. The pet owner bite was a nightmare. There wasn't even a tech or vet in the room at the time, and she sued, saying we caused the bite.

 

[sofficat]

My dad is also an infectious disease specialist (small world!). He said that >80% of cat bites get infected while only ~5% of dog bites. Why? They have a tendency to go much deeper and even puncture the tendon sheath (which the resident, whose SN I can't remember) pointed out.


I had a coworker who was bitten and went to Urgent Care. While there, she was prescribed Augmentin. Our office manager acted bewildered since we already had Clavamox. But, the simple fact is that Clavamox isn't licensed for use in humans--what if there was a bad batch or something? You would be SOL for any sort of action against the drug company. The clinic should be willing to pay for the human equivalent of the drug. Period.

1- I have always heard that because cat teeth are very pointy that when they bite the skin tends to close around the wound, acting as if the cat tooth inoculated bacteria in the skin, thus creating a lovely place for the bacteria to replicate. In contrast, dog bites are usually larger and tear, leaving an open wound instead of a puncture.

2- At the clinic where I worked, when we got a bottle of clavamox (and basically anything else) we threw away the package insert.... know why? Because it had human directions on it. Drugs are drugs. That is why a vet can fill a prescription and the owner can take it to a human pharmacy and get it filled.

 

[VAgirl]

Drugs are drugs.

I know I haven't had pharm yet, and I don't know enough about this topic to comment with any kind of specific knowledge, but that seems like a very dangerous statement to me. 250mg of Tylenol will fix my headache right up, but will kill my cat most likely. Not all drugs are appropriate for all species and the statement "drugs are drugs" seems too cavalier to me. Perhaps you just meant in the case of Clavamox (I have no idea about Clavamox). But in general I think that's really not the right attitude. Why else can you not give Ivermectin to some dog breeds (collies? border collies?) and some anesthetics are dangerous for other breeds (ex: sight hounds).

Like I said, I'm missing the details of what's bad for whom, but there are very good reasons why you need to know what you're doing when you're taking prescription drugs off label.

 

[tkim]

2- At the clinic where I worked, when we got a bottle of clavamox (and basically anything else) we threw away the package insert.... know why? Because it had human directions on it. Drugs are drugs. That is why a vet can fill a prescription and the owner can take it to a human pharmacy and get it filled.

http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdf/US_EN_CT_compliance.pdf

I didn't see the human dosages/directions.

 

[Bill59]

Clavamox is the trade name for a combination of amoxicillin + clavulanate. It is a veterinary product and is not labelled for human patients.

The very similar human product is Augmentin. But Augmentin has slightly less clavulonate, so they aren't identical.

 

[sofficat]

I know I haven't had pharm yet, and I don't know enough about this topic to comment with any kind of specific knowledge, but that seems like a very dangerous statement to me. 250mg of Tylenol will fix my headache right up, but will kill my cat most likely. Not all drugs are appropriate for all species and the statement "drugs are drugs" seems too cavalier to me. Perhaps you just meant in the case of Clavamox (I have no idea about Clavamox). But in general I think that's really not the right attitude. Why else can you not give Ivermectin to some dog breeds (collies? border collies?) and some anesthetics are dangerous for other breeds (ex: sight hounds).

Like I said, I'm missing the details of what's bad for whom, but there are very good reasons why you need to know what you're doing when you're taking prescription drugs off label.

'Drugs are drugs' means that 250 mg of acetaminophen is 250 mg of acetaminophen no matter what- used in humans or animals. Doses for different species are very very different. Yes- you will kill your cat if you give it a human dose (or a dog dose) of acetaminophen. I am just saying that if you take 25 mg of diphenhydramine from your cabinet at home or take 25 mg of it from your dogs prescription bottle, it's the same thing.

As far as Clavamox, it's a combo of drugs, so that is my mistake. I guess I was thinking of just Amoxicillin or just Clindamycin. It's been over 2 years since I worked at that clinic, but I know that a good % of our antibiotics and antihistamines came with human dosing charts (but prob not the clavamox!)

 

[chris03333]

I know I haven't had pharm yet, and I don't know enough about this topic to comment with any kind of specific knowledge, but that seems like a very dangerous statement to me. 250mg of Tylenol will fix my headache right up, but will kill my cat most likely. Not all drugs are appropriate for all species and the statement "drugs are drugs" seems too cavalier to me. Perhaps you just meant in the case of Clavamox (I have no idea about Clavamox). But in general I think that's really not the right attitude. Why else can you not give Ivermectin to some dog breeds (collies? border collies?) and some anesthetics are dangerous for other breeds (ex: sight hounds).

Like I said, I'm missing the details of what's bad for whom, but there are very good reasons why you need to know what you're doing when you're taking prescription drugs off label.

Clavamox is a veterinary drug. It is a different formulation than Augmentin (human drug). The insert may tell how to reconstitute it. It is common for us to reconstitute the drug before we dispense. You throw away the insert so noone reads it and adds more water.