Self-studying organic chemistry?

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QuickSort2340

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So, everything I’ve read and heard about o-chem is that it’s insanely hard, which has me more than a little bit nervous about taking the course.

Has anybody had any success in trying to self-study the material beforehand to make the class more manageable? I’m strongly considering buying the textbook that my school uses (Klein) and trying to learn the topics on my own as something of a primer ahead of the real thing.

Is this a good idea or just an exercise in futility?
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Some people like 'organic chemistry as a second language'. I didn't self study before hand. Just prepare yourself to succeed during the semester by not taking too many other difficult classes that semester and being mentally ready to work hard.
 
The best thing you can do for yourself before going in to it is not to study reactions/specific mechanisms, but to gain a firm grasp of periodic table trends, sterics, electronics, functional groups and nomenclature. And practice visualizing/rotating 3D models in your head.
 
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Spend time on it. Don’t ignore the material. When something is confusing, ask questions about it. Have a strong study group and you’ll be good. This is assuming you’re not spread too thin with other hard classes/activities.
 
I wouldn't try to self study before. The biggest thing to focus on is do not fall behind at all costs. I know everyone always says this but it is so true especially for organic chemistry. Try to learn the material after each lecture and you will be able to understand the future lectures much more effectively
 
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Just review resonance.
 
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If you stay like 1-2 days ahead of lecture, and run through drills of all the different synthesis, you will be fine. It also insanely helps if you have a good imagination, visualizing things in 3D is a key feature to passing the course.
 
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Personally, I felt like 'organic chemistry as a second language' was a waste, but finding a good source of practice problems in general is a good idea.

Two pieces of advice:
1. The first 30% of the class will feel easy. Don't let that lull you into a false confidence as it will get much harder. Also make sure you REALLY understand that stuff as it will help you going forward and is on the MCAT.
2. Make sure you understand why everything does what it does. Don't just remember that X does Y, understand why X does Y.
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
Personally, I felt like 'organic chemistry as a second language' was a waste, but finding a good source of practice problems in general is a good idea.

Two pieces of advice:
1. The first 30% of the class will feel easy. Don't let that lull you into a false confidence as it will get much harder. Also make sure you REALLY understand that stuff as it will help you going forward and is on the MCAT.
2. Make sure you understand why everything does what it does. Don't just remember that X does Y, understand why X does Y.
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Thank you. Do you know of a good source of problems? The textbook that my university currently uses is Klein, which based on the preface seems to be focused on the problem solving aspects of the subject. Do you recommend any other textbooks/problem sources?
 
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I found Organic 1/2 to be a piece of cake (enough to 4.0). I would credit everything to pre-reading the David Klein "Organic chemistry a second language) chapter that pertained to the lecture before I went to that lecture.
If you learn some of it from Klein's little bible, then lecture is going to be a simple review and you can understand everything and ask the good questions in the lecture while others are confused.
 
QuickSort2340 said:
Thank you. Do you know of a good source of problems?
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Our class used an online tool called SaplingLearning which I found helpful, but I suspect there are better tools available out there.

I haven't studied OChem for the MCAT yet, but there might be some useful overlap in MCAT study tools for OChem.
 
I found Organic Chemistry I (and II so far, 5 weeks left) one of the easier premed classes. Easier than physics and biochemistry but harder than biology. It depends on the professor to an extent. I started reading Organic Chemistry as a Second Language, but it was just easier to pay attention in class and do the homework.
 
procrastitator said:
I found Organic Chemistry I (and II so far, 5 weeks left) one of the easier premed classes. Easier than physics and biochemistry but harder than biology.
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I think this is the opposite of most. I found Ochem and BioChem about the same (both comparatively difficult). Bio and Physics were interesting but easy for me. I think for most people it's:

Ochem > Biochem > Physics > Bio
 
IsleyOfTheNorth said:
I think this is the opposite of most. I found Ochem and BioChem about the same (both comparatively difficult). Bio and Physics were interesting but easy for me. I think for most people it's:

Ochem > Biochem > Physics > Bio
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I wish it was like that for me. I feel like I spend as much time studying biochemistry as I do the other three combined.
 
QuickSort2340 said:
So, everything I’ve read and heard about o-chem is that it’s insanely hard, which has me more than a little bit nervous about taking the course.

Has anybody had any success in trying to self-study the material beforehand to make the class more manageable? I’m strongly considering buying the textbook that my school uses (Klein) and trying to learn the topics on my own as something of a primer ahead of the real thing.

Is this a good idea or just an exercise in futility?
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Organic chemistry is sort of like learning a scientific language in that you learn exactly how each reaction occurs and selecting the reactions that will get you to the highest yield of product. Additionally, this language also involves learning how to name organic molecules. Finally, the class involves truly understanding the laboratory techniques that allow you to separate the molecule you want from impurities. I feel that unless you have a plethora of testing material that is comprehensive, you won't be able to effectively learn organic chemistry on your own compared to a classroom setting.
 
Honestly I found ochem to be the easiest of all chemistry classes. I had like a 96 average in ochem II. That's in contrast to the C I got in analytical chem, and the B's in physical and inorganic chem. Even biochem was harder and you'll have plenty of that to look forward to. You should do yourself a favor and relax on this one. I think people blow it out of proportion. Now, everyone has different strengths so I'm not saying it won't be hard for you as an individual. But it's not some kind of enormous hurdle you need to be stressing about. You'll have plenty of classes in your undergrad as hard or much harder than ochem most likely. By contrast to my experiences with ochem I thought physics 1 and 2 were utter hell.
 
I would say it depends on the difficulty of the professor...I feel like I had it easy, after a year of lessons, our Ochem 3 final (quarter based) was literally just two pieces of paper. At the top of each page was one chemical, at the bottom was another. The rules were “Get from this one to this one, show how you got there. You don’t need to show mechanism. You can only use a given reaction once.”
 
Our chemistry was brutal ( maybe I am just not as smart as other applicants 🙂)). I am a chem major too , but it was tough . Reviewing stuff in khan academy before the lecture really helped , as well as reading ahead
 
And yeah - don’t listen to people who tell you to relax because it is easy . As s teaching assistant in chemistry Department who tutors students , I am telling you - MAJORITY of students find it tough . So study from day one and don’t fall behind , but as long as you put in the effort , you will do great
 
mmaslyanko said:
And yeah - don’t listen to people who tell you to relax because it is easy . As s teaching assistant in chemistry Department who tutors students , I am telling you - MAJORITY of students find it tough . So study from day one and don’t fall behind , but as long as you put in the effort , you will do great
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Yeah, I think falling behind is probably the worst thing you can do for this class. IMO it's not one of those classes that you can cram last minute.
 
Tollats said:
Yeah, I think falling behind is probably the worst thing you can do for this class. IMO it's not one of those classes that you can cram last minute.
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It is definitely like a second language though. Best way I found to study was make your own multi step synthesis and then find every way you can think of to do it.
 
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jmetaller said:
Honestly I found ochem to be the easiest of all chemistry classes. I had like a 96 average in ochem II. That's in contrast to the C I got in analytical chem, and the B's in physical and inorganic chem. Even biochem was harder and you'll have plenty of that to look forward to. You should do yourself a favor and relax on this one. I think people blow it out of proportion. Now, everyone has different strengths so I'm not saying it won't be hard for you as an individual. But it's not some kind of enormous hurdle you need to be stressing about. You'll have plenty of classes in your undergrad as hard or much harder than ochem most likely. By contrast to my experiences with ochem I thought physics 1 and 2 were utter hell.
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I should probably add that I'm a non-trad who already completed undergrad, but don't have the pre-med pre-requisites 🙂
 
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@jmetaller


So , maybe you are a very nice person , but your earlier post about “relaxing on that one “ sounds a bit arrogant. And whether it is true or not - personally , I don’t think it matters either way ,- it is not constructive and definitely not helpful for absolute majority of ppl reading this . Either ppl who struggle or will struggle with the course will think that they are not “smart enough” and ruin their self esteem , and maybe even think that it is supposed to be easy , and if it is not easy for them , they should give up on a dream of being a doctor . Or the person asking for advice will fall behind , and get a much lower grade . So either way - it can mess ppl up .

This post is not about how smart which one of us is, and how well we did on one thing or another . It is about how well we can support each other through this painful process , and learn from it .
 
mmaslyanko said:
Oh that’s so cool ! Me too ! I am 33, I have a bachelors , masters , Mensa, and this is my second bachelors (in chemistry ), minor in math . I also worked as TA for chemistry and math department , and if I may brag a little , I am pretty good at it . I am also mentoring a few pre-meds in their journey . But it doesn’t matter .

So , maybe you are a very nice person , but your earlier post about “relaxing on that one “ sounds a bit arrogant. And whether it is true or not - personally , I don’t think it matters either way ,- it is not constructive and definitely not helpful for absolute majority of ppl reading this . Either ppl who struggle or will struggle with the course will think that they are not “smart enough” and ruin their self esteem , and maybe even think that it is supposed to be easy , and if it is not easy for them , they should give up on a dream of being a doctor . Or the person asking for advice will fall behind , and get a much lower grade . So either way - it can mess ppl up .

This post is not about how smart which one of us are , and how well we did on one thing or another . It is about how well we can support each other through this painful process , and learn from it .
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I think you have me confused with someone else -- I'm the OP who's quite nervous about this 🙂
 
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QuickSort2340 said:
I should probably add that I'm a non-trad who already completed undergrad, but don't have the pre-med pre-requisites 🙂
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Honestly , I think you being non-traditional probably helped , but maybe not too much . I am non traditional as well , and even though I have very good study habits from being in school for the past 12 years🙂, this stuff can be hard regardless . It is truly it’s own language
 
Non-exhaustive list of tips for organic chemistry (from a non-trad who got A's in Orgo 1 and 2), in no particular order:

1. Don't be intimidated. Organic chemistry isn't challenging because of conceptual difficulty; it's challenging because there's a high volume of ideas and rules you need to know, and you have to invest a lot of time into mastering them. You don't need a high IQ to do well, just a good work ethic.

2. Read the textbook using active reading techniques, do as many practice problems as you can, and compare your answers to those in the solutions manual. If something is unclear in the textbook, use supplemental materials as needed. (Some people swear by Khan Academy, others by Organic Chemistry as a Second Language, and others by Pushing Electrons. Which resource is best for you probably depends on your learning style.)

3. Treat the class content like a set of puzzles. You'll be learning various concepts and rules, and you're going to apply them to different situations in order to make predictions and draw conclusions. The skills you hone in organic chemistry are the same skills that you will use as a diagnostician; that's, in large part, why most medical schools still require applicants to take organic chemistry.

4. Don't fall behind. The material builds on itself.

5. Know what the instructor wants you to know. Some professors want you to know practical applications, while others don't. Some professors emphasize mechanisms, while others emphasize products. Some professors want you to know how to do some complex syntheses, while others focus more on reaction types. In order to study effectively, you have to roughly determine what the professors expects from you.

6. Don't be afraid to ask for help during office hours and receive tutoring. For some students, it helps to have a person in front of them to re-explain concepts and answer questions.
 
Osminog said:
Non-exhaustive list of tips for organic chemistry (from a non-trad who got A's in Orgo 1 and 2), in no particular order:

1. Don't be intimidated. Organic chemistry isn't challenging because of conceptual difficulty; it's challenging because there's a high volume of ideas and rules you need to know, and you have to invest a lot of time into mastering them. You don't need a high IQ to do well, just a good work ethic.

2. Read the textbook using active reading techniques, do as many practice problems as you can, and compare your answers to those in the solutions manual. If something is unclear in the textbook, use supplemental materials as needed. (Some people swear by Khan Academy, others by Organic Chemistry as a Second Language, and others by Pushing Electrons. Which resource is best for you probably depends on your learning style.)

3. Treat the class content like a set of puzzles. You'll be learning various concepts and rules, and you're going to apply them to different situations in order to make predictions and draw conclusions. The skills you hone in organic chemistry are the same skills that you will use as a diagnostician; that's, in large part, why most medical schools still require applicants to take organic chemistry.

4. Don't fall behind. The material builds on itself.

5. Know what the instructor wants you to know. Some professors want you to know practical applications, while others don't. Some professors emphasize mechanisms, while others emphasize products. Some professors want you to know how to do some complex syntheses, while others focus more on reaction types. In order to study effectively, you have to roughly determine what the professors expects from you.

6. Don't be afraid to ask for help during office hours and receive tutoring. For some students, it helps to have a person in front of them to re-explain concepts and answer questions.
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Awesome summary .
 
I did a few chapters of organic chemistry as a second language, and it helped tremendously. If you have the time (and patience) I'd recommend going through it, or going through at least a few chapters. Orgo 1 is a lot easier when you have nomenclature and resonance down easy.
 
Unlike most, Orgo was probably one of my favorite classes in undergrad. A lot of good tips are mentioned here, but I can't stress enough that understanding the basics will make it so much easier. Don't only memorize individual reactions, but understand why they're happening. Understanding fundamentals lets you predict a reaction given any reagents. I don't think you need to prep before, but if you want to I would learn periodic trends (e.g. electronegativity) and what factors contribute to stability (e.g. resonance, bond angles).
 
mmaslyanko said:
@jmetaller


So , maybe you are a very nice person , but your earlier post about “relaxing on that one “ sounds a bit arrogant. And whether it is true or not - personally , I don’t think it matters either way ,- it is not constructive and definitely not helpful for absolute majority of ppl reading this . Either ppl who struggle or will struggle with the course will think that they are not “smart enough” and ruin their self esteem , and maybe even think that it is supposed to be easy , and if it is not easy for them , they should give up on a dream of being a doctor . Or the person asking for advice will fall behind , and get a much lower grade . So either way - it can mess ppl up .

This post is not about how smart which one of us is, and how well we did on one thing or another . It is about how well we can support each other through this painful process , and learn from it .
Click to expand...

I think you're taking my post the wrong way. I included examples of classes I did mediocre to down right poorly with or struggled a lot so that people could see I'm not just some smart ass geek who finds everything easy and wanted to brag about it. Nor did I say it was easy. I said "I" found it the easiest and "everyones strengths are different". I only said to relax because you're going to be confronted with a variety of challenging classes throughout your educational career and are not necessarily going to respond to them the same way other people do. There is no point getting stressed out about stuff just because other people say it's hard. I seemed to be the most stressed out person in my physics classes and the least in Orgo II. I didn't post my experience to brag, but to offer extreme contrast to what some people treat as a universally accepted fact. Orgo is unique from other chemistry classes in that it relies less on mathematics and abstract concepts and more on memorization. So you may be much better at it than other chemistry classes or much worse depending what your strengths and interests are.
 
QuickSort2340 said:
I should probably add that I'm a non-trad who already completed undergrad, but don't have the pre-med pre-requisites 🙂
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So now I see a little more where this comes from. In your case I feel you might be at risk of falling into the group that finds Orgo very challenging. But again, not because it's objectively super hard but because of your relative lack of background in life sciences (I'm assuming here, what was your major?). Try and go in enthusiastically. I loved orgo at the time. If you struggle with it and don't like it rest assured you use like 1% of it going forward. It is memorization heavy so if that's your strong suit you'll likely do fine. In either case, the secret is notecards. Notecards for every reaction. Flash them throughout the day any chance you get.
 
mmaslyanko said:
@jmetaller


So , maybe you are a very nice person , but your earlier post about “relaxing on that one “ sounds a bit arrogant. And whether it is true or not - personally , I don’t think it matters either way ,- it is not constructive and definitely not helpful for absolute majority of ppl reading this . Either ppl who struggle or will struggle with the course will think that they are not “smart enough” and ruin their self esteem , and maybe even think that it is supposed to be easy , and if it is not easy for them , they should give up on a dream of being a doctor . Or the person asking for advice will fall behind , and get a much lower grade . So either way - it can mess ppl up .

This post is not about how smart which one of us is, and how well we did on one thing or another . It is about how well we can support each other through this painful process , and learn from it .
Click to expand...

If an anonymous internet user's opinion of the relative difficulty of a college course is enough to make someone fail out of college, said person is not cut out for higher education or the workforce in general.

The variety of opinions expressed in this thread clearly illustrates that the difficulty of a course depends on many factors, including: the professor, student's educational background, and their study habits.

Just my 0.02.
 
mmaslyanko said:
@jmetallerSo , maybe you are a very nice person , but your earlier post about “relaxing on that one “ sounds a bit arrogant.
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FWIW, I did NOT find his/her post arrogant but rather was trying to quell the fear. Fear begets fear, calm begets more calm.

It's not hard. It IS a puzzle. It IS a different way of looking at reactions.

It IS a lot of work for 3 measly credits. It DOES take a lot of time and falling behind is paramount to disaster as is simply memorizing old Chegg tests or mechanisms or synthesis (Strecker or Gabriel for instance) rather than understanding why it the reactions happen like they do.
 
Glad others understood what I meant. Was definitely just trying to quell the fear by offering some contrast to the typical narrative. Another poster said that most view the level of difficulty as like orgo>bchem>physics>bio. That makes me want to cry because my physics semesters were a time of constant rage and fear that I would not graduate. Just goes to show there's not much to generalize here.

IL1B said:
View attachment 255274

it is a difficult course. Take it seriously
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This is why you need to practice your psychedelic drug analogs!! No wonder you all are struggling 😛
 
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Organic chemistry is one of those subjects that beget a lot of fear from pre-meds but it can be very rewarding once learned well. It's also one of those subjects that is best learned with guidance from professors, TAs, and peers. It would take a lot of time and effort to learn by oneself. I like to tell people that organic chemistry is a language. You have to first learn the basic structure of the language, basic vocabulary, and basic grammar before you can start speaking the language. Undergraduate organic chemistry is that - the vocabulary and the grammar. The goal of organic chemistry is to use it to solve synthetic problems. So take the time during the course to really make sure you really understand each topic before moving on to the next one. If you feel like you don't completely understand a mechanism, draw it out until you do. That's all best done as you learn the material in class.
 
aldol16 said:
Organic chemistry is one of those subjects that beget a lot of fear from pre-meds but it can be very rewarding once learned well. It's also one of those subjects that is best learned with guidance from professors, TAs, and peers. It would take a lot of time and effort to learn by oneself. I like to tell people that organic chemistry is a language. You have to first learn the basic structure of the language, basic vocabulary, and basic grammar before you can start speaking the language. Undergraduate organic chemistry is that - the vocabulary and the grammar. The goal of organic chemistry is to use it to solve synthetic problems. So take the time during the course to really make sure you really understand each topic before moving on to the next one. If you feel like you don't completely understand a mechanism, draw it out until you do. That's all best done as you learn the material in class.
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Just to emphasize this: if you do not learn well with a study group, don’t feel like you need to get one. I personally was successful in Ochem because I am that annoying guy that asks a hundred questions per lecture for clarification.

Overall, just find what works best for you.
 
QuickSort2340 said:
So, everything I’ve read and heard about o-chem is that it’s insanely hard, which has me more than a little bit nervous about taking the course.

Has anybody had any success in trying to self-study the material beforehand to make the class more manageable? I’m strongly considering buying the textbook that my school uses (Klein) and trying to learn the topics on my own as something of a primer ahead of the real thing.

Is this a good idea or just an exercise in futility?
Click to expand...

OChem is not insanely hard, it's harder than biology for sure, but it's a very tame course for the most part. I also had the best OChem professor in the known universe so maybe my experience was than everyone else's. The first half of the course is kinda rough but once you get into the rhythm of Nomenclature -> Reactions -> Mechanisms it's literally the same thing every time.

I wouldn't recommend studying anything in advance as there's no real point.
 
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