SERE school

[teacherman84]

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What is the likelihood of a doctor getting to go to SERE school? Would there be any reason at all...working as a FS or something? Ive always been the outdoors type and was recently speaking with a former AF SERE instructor who got me interested. Thanks

 

[Perrotfish]

Isn't that torture school? Like they torture you so you learn how not to give away information under duress? Why in the world would you want to do that? I mean I get the interest in the SE, but the suckieness of the RE seems to outweigh that interest. Just a thought, I'm a medical student and I've never gone to anything except ODS.

 

[dru2002]

What is the likelihood of a doctor getting to go to SERE school? Would there be any reason at all...working as a FS or something? Ive always been the outdoors type and was recently speaking with a former AF SERE instructor who got me interested. Thanks

I know to be an instructor at the USMC Mountain Warfare Training Center in Bridgeport,CA you need to take all of the classes they offer which includes SERE. There is only one physician instructor. I really don't know if the Navy has any other positions for doctors that require SERE training.

I also agree with the above poster. But yet somehow your motivation motivates me.

 

[ftrflyr29]

Isn't that torture school? Like they torture you so you learn how not to give away information under duress? Why in the world would you want to do that? I mean I get the interest in the SE, but the suckieness of the RE seems to outweigh that interest. Just a thought, I'm a medical student and I've never gone to anything except ODS.

Oh, the drama.........not quite torture.

What is the likelihood of a doctor getting to go to SERE school? Would there be any reason at all...working as a FS or something? Ive always been the outdoors type and was recently speaking with a former AF SERE instructor who got me interested. Thanks

In the fleet, my squadron's FS (Navy) would have had no issues with the squadron letting him go, the issue is getting the clinic/medical people to let him go.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Isn't that torture school? Like they torture you so you learn how not to give away information under duress? Why in the world would you want to do that? I mean I get the interest in the SE, but the suckieness of the RE seems to outweigh that interest. Just a thought, I'm a medical student and I've never gone to anything except ODS.

I went there as a medical observer. A vacation would have been better. And yes, we do waterboard our own people, but it's just for fun.

 

[ftrflyr29]

I went there as a medical observer. A vacation would have been better. And yes, we do waterboard our own people, but it's just for fun.

Only on the west coast. On the east coast, you get smoked.

 

[Jolie South]

Isn't that torture school? Like they torture you so you learn how not to give away information under duress? Why in the world would you want to do that? I mean I get the interest in the SE, but the suckieness of the RE seems to outweigh that interest. Just a thought, I'm a medical student and I've never gone to anything except ODS.

I watched a series about it on tv. Is withstanding torture the main objective? It just looked like extreme survival school to me, i.e. putting them in a desert with no water and make them build a shelter and find food.

 

[teacherman84]

Found this on Hulu for anyone else interested... http://www.hulu.com/survival-school# this is for those who become the instructors. But aircrew do a 19 day course at Fairchild and a few days in FL for water survival and AK for cold weather. I think it looks fun.

What I have found on the the Fairchild AFB site it looks like it is for aircrew, which I dont see why FS wouldnt fall under this. http://www.fairchild.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3771

Any AF FS know anymore about this?

What does mecdical observer entail, orbitsurg? Just making sure they arent pushing it too far?

 

[DeadCactus]

It's for people who are at high risk of being stranded beyond friendly lines. Generally this is pilots, air crew, and special operations folks. You could argue that as a FS you should go, but I imagine they could argue back that as a flight surgeon you won't be getting the orders to fly behind enemy lines.

Let me know what you find out though: I would be excited to hear positive news about the idea. Maybe we're in the minority, but I think it would be a great experience as well...

 

[orbitsurgMD]

What does mecdical observer entail, orbitsurg? Just making sure they arent pushing it too far?

That's right.

 

[sethco]

What is the likelihood of a doctor getting to go to SERE school? Would there be any reason at all...working as a FS or something? Ive always been the outdoors type and was recently speaking with a former AF SERE instructor who got me interested. Thanks

All flight surgeons go to SERE level B. This is the version without the resistance portion of the course. There were rumors a year or so ago that flight surgeons would have to start going to the course with Resistance. The reason flight docs have to go is because they are considered aircrew. Other than them, I don't think I have heard of any other docs going to SERE. I could be wrong though.

 

[teacherman84]

Sethco, could you briefly share what it was like as someone who went through it? Do you do the parts in AK and FL as well or just at fairchild?
orbitsurg, was thos a long term assignment or a one time thing? What specialty are you that they sent you for this?
thanks again

 

[trail doc]

Going to SERE was something that all newly winged aviators at my command had to do. Apparently that box has to be checked in order to fly over hostile territory, so FS could do the training if they wanted to fly those missions. I'm sure my command would have sent me if I wanted to go, but as mentioned earlier, who would want to? Some of you may be more masochistic than I. An alternative was to go as medial staff, but apparently if you do that, you cannot go as a student, since the cirriculum is secret. It is widely considered rude to discuss you're experience there with folks who haven't gone, but I overheard a lot of discussion in the ready room among folks who had been there.
The Navy has east and west coast SERE schools. East is near Brunswick, ME, and West is near San Diego.
The bottom line is it's easy for a FS in the Navy to go, if your command is agreeable, and you're into that sort of thing.

 

[backrow]

Navy: you can go to SERE if you become a flight surgeon. You do all phases. If you are a west coast carrier doc you will be asked to rotate as the observer. If you want to do the course you need to do it before you go as an observer. If you go to an east coast squadron you can volunteer to go: never heard of a squadron deny the request. If you want to fly on deployment over certain countries you will be required to go. If you end up in certain squadrons you may need to do the advanced SERE as well.

Air Force: all flight docs go through a version of SERE as part of their Flight Surgery class.

Army: have no clue.


As to those who are looking for what SERE entails I will simply say that those who have been are not supposed to talk about the details in order to not "spoil" it for those who go in the future.

 

[sethco]

Sethco, could you briefly share what it was like as someone who went through it? Do you do the parts in AK and FL as well or just at fairchild?
orbitsurg, was thos a long term assignment or a one time thing? What specialty are you that they sent you for this?
thanks again

Can't really talk about it too much as most is classified, but will tell you that the flight docs do their SERE in San Antonio. Not sure if it still going to be there when Brooks gets completely moved to Wright-Pat.

Never did the resistance portion of the course, but from looking at some of the pansies that I have to see in the clinic on a daily basis, it can't be that brutal.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Sethco, could you briefly share what it was like as someone who went through it? Do you do the parts in AK and FL as well or just at fairchild?
orbitsurg, was thos a long term assignment or a one time thing? What specialty are you that they sent you for this?
thanks again

I was a flight surgeon and went as an observer. Going was a requires TAD assignment at my command. I went to the east coast camp, which is a couple hours drive north of Brunswick.

 

[AF M4]

Can't really talk about it too much as most is classified, but will tell you that the flight docs do their SERE in San Antonio. Not sure if it still going to be there when Brooks gets completely moved to Wright-Pat.

Never did the resistance portion of the course, but from looking at some of the pansies that I have to see in the clinic on a daily basis, it can't be that brutal.

Hi sethco -

I was one of the last crops of AF flight docs to do the San Antonio SERE course; this year they've transitioned everyone up to the full Fairchild SERE magilla. San Antonio was much nicer since you only spent about a week running around outside and didn't get slapped around until you told the instructor all your dark and dirty secrets. Also, San Antonio was merely a hot and humid hellhole, vs. the bitterly cold with 3 feet of snow hellhole that is Fairchild.

Neither sounded fun to me, but you get through it. If survival school's your thing, you might enjoy it. Personally, I fell into a river and got bitten by a snake on the first day and was ready to resort to cannibalism by day 3. It was after reading the now-legendary report of my exploits during this course that my command decided that my time was best and most safely spent in clinic.

 

[eagledriver]

I know that they accept volunteers - we had both a FS and a chaplain go through SERE when I went through (can't remember if they went through resistance as well). Fairchild isn't the happiest place on earth, but if you get the opportunity to go through Pensacola (water) or Eielson (arctic), those are both "gentlemen's" courses and well worth your time.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It was a barrel of laughs back in the day.

 

[teacherman84]

Hi sethco -
I was one of the last crops of AF flight docs to do the San Antonio SERE course; this year they've transitioned everyone up to the full Fairchild SERE magilla. San Antonio was much nicer since you only spent about a week running around outside and didn't get slapped around until you told the instructor all your dark and dirty secrets. Also, San Antonio was merely a hot and humid hellhole, vs. the bitterly cold with 3 feet of snow hellhole that is Fairchild.

I grew up in the snowy woods of Maine so for me Fairchild sounds fun

I know that they accept volunteers - we had both a FS and a chaplain go through SERE when I went through (can't remember if they went through resistance as well). Fairchild isn't the happiest place on earth, but if you get the opportunity to go through Pensacola (water) or Eielson (arctic), those are both "gentlemen's" courses and well worth your time.

So are Pensecola and Eielson not part of the regular course? What about them are "gentlemens?"

 

[ftrflyr29]

It was a barrel of laughs back in the day.

I personally LOVED being the SRO (senior ranking officer) when I went. That made it even more fun. 👎barf:

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Army psychologists are encouraged to go. At the very least we are all supposed to get level 2 training.

 

[sethco]

Hi sethco -

I was one of the last crops of AF flight docs to do the San Antonio SERE course; this year they've transitioned everyone up to the full Fairchild SERE magilla. San Antonio was much nicer since you only spent about a week running around outside and didn't get slapped around until you told the instructor all your dark and dirty secrets. Also, San Antonio was merely a hot and humid hellhole, vs. the bitterly cold with 3 feet of snow hellhole that is Fairchild.

Neither sounded fun to me, but you get through it. If survival school's your thing, you might enjoy it. Personally, I fell into a river and got bitten by a snake on the first day and was ready to resort to cannibalism by day 3. It was after reading the now-legendary report of my exploits during this course that my command decided that my time was best and most safely spent in clinic.

That sucks. Not so much the resistance portion, but it would suck being at Fairchild in the winter. For the incoming Flight Docs, try to do SERE between April-Oct.

How is your donut looking? I am at 92% right now. 115 days left and counting!!!!

 

[Slevin]

Army psychologists are encouraged to go. At the very least we are all supposed to get level 2 training.

Do they let any other doc's in the Army go? I wanted to go when I was in the Corps but never got the chance.

Also do they let doc's go to jump school?

 

[AF M4]

That sucks. Not so much the resistance portion, but it would suck being at Fairchild in the winter. For the incoming Flight Docs, try to do SERE between April-Oct.

How is your donut looking? I am at 92% right now. 115 days left and counting!!!!

Nice!

I'm at 51% right now. Over the hump.

 

[eagledriver]

So are Pensecola and Eielson not part of the regular course? What about them are "gentlemens?"

The regular (Fairchild) course covers land survival (both combat and non) and of course the ERE part of SERE, whereas Pensacola specifically covers water survival, and Eielson specifically covers arctic survival and is required for aviators in Alaska.
As far as being more of a "gentlemen's" course, aside from the obvious part of not having a resistance portion, the instructors (which are the same guys from Fairchild) treat you more like a professional and less like pipeline trainees imo.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Do they let any other doc's in the Army go? I wanted to go when I was in the Corps but never got the chance.

Also do they let doc's go to jump school?

Not sure about how the order of merit works for SERE. I know psychologists are supposed to go, because we may be called to be "SERE Psychologist" at some point in the career. That's the guy who observes and makes sure the line hasn't been crossed.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I was interested in determining how feasible it would be to attend trainings like SERE and jump school as a USUHS (army) student and beyond. I realize I will likely never need them as a physician, but am interested in attending nonetheless.

 

[DrMetal]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I was interested in determining how feasible it would be to attend trainings like SERE and jump school as a USUHS (army) student and beyond. I realize I will likely never need them as a physician, but am interested in attending nonetheless.

It's been done before, but--by my recollection--the last few attempts have been unsuccessful. There's a new curriculum there, that I don't think allows enough time for you to go to a long intense school like jump or SERE, its been difficult to get a spot there as of late, and (probably the biggest hurdle) lack of funding (i.e. travel costs). You can certainly inquire about, but dont get your hopes up.

 

[pgg]

It's a lot harder than it used to be to do stuff like that. Funding is very dry. During the budget freakout in October last year, even no-cost TAD was under heavy scrutiny, the logic being that even though the military wasn't paying extra for travel, it was still paying your salary and while on non mission-essential TAD you weren't doing the real work you were hired for.

If you're a USUHS student, the required MS1-2 summer military (non-medical) experience may have room for that sort of thing. (Assuming they still have such a requirement, it's been a while since I was there.) I had some classmates who spent that block of time doing fun stuff with the line.

 

[Qurmish]

It's been done before, but--by my recollection--the last few attempts have been unsuccessful. There's a new curriculum there, that I don't think allows enough time for you to go to a long intense school like jump or SERE, its been difficult to get a spot there as of late, and (probably the biggest hurdle) lack of funding (i.e. travel costs). You can certainly inquire about, but dont get your hopes up.

Attending airborne school has the strings attached of being more likely to end up at unsavory duty stations like Fort Bragg for run of the mill soldiers. Is this true also in milmed?

 

[denali]

When I was at USUHS we had a few folks that did airborne during the break following MS-1 year as their operational experience; I was prior service so I got to hang out at WRAIR and help with a couple studies. Some others were able to do EFMB training/testing. The Air Force guys all had to do some death-by-PPT intro to flight medicine thing. With the curriculum changes, don't know if that block of time is on the schedule anymore.

With regards to SERE training, if it's the real-deal-get-the-crap-beat-out-of-you-course run by USASOC, no, you won't get to do that. Only people with a job that requires that course get to go there, and medical student is not one of those jobs. If it's something like the USAF Cool School or their version of basic SERE, maybe.

At least for the Army, any school/course where demand is greater than the number of slots will likely not be available to you* as the mission is to support the line first, not medical students in training; airborne training seems to be the exception though.

* unless you know someone with flag rank willing to do a favor

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

Thank you everyone-- It's great to hear that there are some possibilities even if I may not get to attend them. It's unlikely (as I'm interested in orthopedics, but who knows down the line), but would physicians tending to special forces or rangers have a greater probability doing some of these things? I don't exactly know what a physician's duties entail for those groups, but I imagine it is analogous to what a flight surgeon or diving medicine specialist have to do.

 

[DrMetal]

Thank you everyone-- It's great to hear that there are some possibilities even if I may not get to attend them. It's unlikely (as I'm interested in orthopedics, but who knows down the line), but would physicians tending to special forces or rangers have a greater probability doing some of these things?

probably so. If youre in on of those units, you'd be poised better to get a spot at one of those schools (if theres room, if your command allows it, etc etc). Concentrate on becoming an orthopod, its more meaningful work!

 

[deuist]

but would physicians tending to special forces or rangers have a greater probability doing some of these things?

I've treated plenty of Rangers and SF's as an ED doc and have never been invited to one of their schools. I do know that the Air Force has a group of docs that belong to the Special Operations Surgical and Extraction Team that do a lot of TDY and deployments. I'm not sure they're sleeping out in the swamps of Florida like the Rangers, but there are lots of training opportunities.

 

[Cooperd0g]

It is highly unlikely to get a spot at SERE school as a physician. True SERE school is specifically for people who are positions with high risk of capture. That doesn't mean you won't be able to go, but you'll have to work hard and press to get it. And the response from anyone who has gone will be "Why?" It isn't a fun program so people who think they want to go are looked up on as weird or slightly "off" by those of us who have actually gone.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

It is highly unlikely to get a spot at SERE school as a physician. True SERE school is specifically for people who are positions with high risk of capture. That doesn't mean you won't be able to go, but you'll have to work hard and press to get it. And the response from anyone who has gone will be "Why?" It isn't a fun program so people who think they want to go are looked up on as weird or slightly "off" by those of us who have actually gone.

I'm more interested in the survival portions. I would like some training in knowing the basics of how to sustain myself in the wilderness.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm more interested in the survival portions. I would like some training in knowing the basics of how to sustain myself in the wilderness.

Try one of the many civilian wilderness survival training courses...

 

[alpinism]

Or you can learn from the one true survival master: Bear Grylls.

Grab some chimichangas and doritos and turn on the discovery channel.

Its totally real you know.

 

[AFSmiley]

This is very cyclical and as alluded to above- depends very much on which pot of money it comes from. You can't just wander around and pick up various Merit Badges because you 'really want to' anymore. I can only speak to my experience in the Air Force (finished AMP ~2 years ago....sigh....)

-Vast majority of AF Flight Docs end up at the SERE course at San Antonio- ECAC. It is a few days long and I haven't heard too many horror stories.
-Some Flight Surgeons who are in the Special Operations community still go to the full course, but these are the exception not the rule.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

The short time at SERE limits the "wilderness experience" portion of the training. The outdoors portion is really not meant to teach you valuable elements of survival skill training; there isn't time enough for that. It is meant to fatigue and stress the officers and enlisted who are then subjected to the confinement, disorientation and interrogation segments of the course, all part of the hostile immersion experience of the course. At the end is the debrief. SERE is not really very good for wilderness survival training and you aren't really left with enough time to do typical survival activities; you are kept on the run, often in harsh climate conditions.

If you want to learn wilderness survival skills, I agree with the suggestions above to find a civilian course directed at those skills. And learn to shoot.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I did the Survival and Evasion portion as a med student in the intro to flight medicine course. It was pretty fun, but not awesome. Certainly I've learned a lot more about survival just growing up in Alaska.