Seriously, why DO?

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chiroortho

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I've been fishing for an answer from my DO-to-be colleagues in other threads over the past few days, gotten only one direct answer (private message, so will respect sender's privacy) as to my question:

Why, if you don't intend to practice the "not something different, something more" approach to MDs, would you choose osteopathic medicine?

Understand that this is in no way intended to be pejorative or sarcastic...I'm sincerely interested in your perspective...

Respectfully,

ChiroOrtho

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I seriously doubt that I'll use OMM in my practice (Emergency Medicine...although I am learning it well and will use it at home :) ), but I chose DO partly because the atmosphere of the school is different from the MD schools I've been around. While the motto of "treating the patient, not the disease" is quite misleading as to the differences between MDs and DOs (I certainly don't think that MDs don't look at all aspects of the patient), I have found that the DO philosophy does color everything that we learn...that concept is overtly included in most everything we're taught.

In addition, the DO school in my state is IMO much stronger academically than the MD school and has a very different atmosphere among the student body.

I also had been very impressed with the graduates of the DO school that I had encountered. I had other reasons, but this gives you some idea of where I was coming from.
 
Originally posted by DrMom
I seriously doubt that I'll use OMM in my practice (Emergency Medicine...although I am learning it well and will use it at home :) ), but I chose DO partly because the atmosphere of the school is different from the MD schools I've been around. While the motto of "treating the patient, not the disease" is quite misleading as to the differences between MDs and DOs (I certainly don't think that MDs don't look at all aspects of the patient), I have found that the DO philosophy does color everything that we learn...that concept is overtly included in most everything we're taught.

***I have no idea what this means...the "atmosphere of the school..", what is that?

"...the DO philosophy does color everything that we learn..."

***Again, DrMom, what are you talking about? I apologize in
advance for my ignorance, but I simply do not understand what you mean...

Warmest wishes for a Merry Christmas,

ChiroOrtho
 
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short answer: i'm doing D.O. because that's where i got in.

long answer:
-D.O. schools were more interested in what i have done as far as clinical experience. they also understood that one can be perfectly capable of being an outstanding physician without a certain MCAT score or GPA. i was never asked outright about any grades or my MCAT score in my interviews, nor was i ever given the feeling that i was anything less than an ideal candidate. I have so far been rejected from only M.D. schools, and have had no M.D. interview offers.

-the D.O.s i have worked with and spoken to tend to be more mature emotionally, and seem to have more realistic expectations of what their career will bring them and genuinely have a much more positive perspective of modern medicine.

-instead of changing myself and doing a bunch of useless bull$hit excercises to live up to the narrowly defined model of a sucessful M.D. applicant, i decided to go for the schools that would like me for who i was. and it worked-now i get to go to a medical school that appreciates the path i took.

i am lucky to have gotten in on my first try, and to have had as many acceptances and interviews offers already. i will always feel fortunate to be there, and if i have to learn an additional componant, so be it. there is no such thing as useless knowledge.
 
Dr Jack,

That makes complete sense to me...One thing is for sure: your MD colleagues will not be able to perform a single procedure that you are not qualified to perform.

So, way to go!

If I wanted to practice medicine, and I applied to an MD school and a DO school, and only got accepted into the DO school, I would accept enthusiastically, be glad to have the privilege of saving lives, and never, EVER worry about changing the minds of people whose minds are UNCHANGEABLE....

My best,

ChiroOrtho
 
Originally posted by chiroortho
Originally posted by DrMom

***I have no idea what this means...the "atmosphere of the school..", what is that?

"...the DO philosophy does color everything that we learn..."

***Again, DrMom, what are you talking about? I apologize in
advance for my ignorance, but I simply do not understand what you mean...

Warmest wishes for a Merry Christmas,

ChiroOrtho

I think what DrMom means by the atmosphere of the school is exactly that - the atmosphere of the school. By atmosphere of the school, I am presuming that she means the welcoming, friendly attitude she received while scouting around for a school to attend. Atmosphere also includes how the students perceive the faculty and vice versa. I can tell you that atmosphere and a sense of belonging are important when deciding what school to attend. I applied strictly to osteopathic schools for similar reasons that DrMom mentioned.

I can guarantee that not all of the schools will present a prospective student with the desirable atmosphere that he/she is looking for. For example, I interviewed at an osteopathic school and have never felt more unwelcomed at a school before. Aside from the excellent faculty that I had met, I was unimpressed with the student body and their attitude towards me (yes, it's true, but it is difficult to love me)- that contributes to the overall atmosphere.

People who are applying and believe in OMM and the osteopathic philosophy may not be certain what specialty or area they would like to practice after they are a doctor. Many students have changed their minds in their specialty AFTER rotations, thereby, not realizing that they didn't want to incorporate OMM into their practice. I don't think that osteopaths SHOULD be limited only to practicing OMM.

"coloring everything that we do"... I think an example would better suit an explanation here. If a student attends a private Christian school, all scubjects will be influenced with the Christian philosophy albeit indirectly. The subjects taught would also have to abide by instructional guidelines that fall along the Christian beliefs.
 
Originally posted by scubadiva
I think what DrMom means by the atmosphere of the school is exactly that - the atmosphere of the school. By atmosphere of the school, I am presuming that she means the welcoming, friendly attitude she received while scouting around for a school to attend. Atmosphere also includes how the students perceive the faculty and vice versa. I can tell you that atmosphere and a sense of belonging are important when deciding what school to attend. I applied strictly to osteopathic schools for similar reasons that DrMom mentioned.


"coloring everything that we do"... I think an example would better suit an explanation here. If a student attends a private Christian school, all scubjects will be influenced with the Christian philosophy albeit indirectly. The subjects taught would also have to abide by instructional guidelines that fall along the Christian beliefs.


Yup. Thanks for clarifying for me. :D
 
Seems as though you're trying to explain the unexplainable...but I still have absolutely no idea why anyone would go to DO school if they're not going to use OMT...

Or maybe I just don't understand the "not something different, something more..." part.

I guess I'm what I'm trying to get a straight answer to is, if you're not going to use OMT, and so many on this forum are going to great lengths to make it clear that "we do it just as well as MDs",
why put up with the political nonsense? What not just go to MD school?

Please, keep it simple.

ChiroOrtho
 
Did you read the article that I posted a link to in another thread? It explains the philosophy.

Also, since DOs provide standard medical care and get the same medical education as MDs, they why shouldn't someone choose a DO school?
 
Because based on the posts in this forum, there is still a lot of real or perceived discrimination against DOs among MDs.

So, again, why choose DO?

No, I didn't read the philosophy article. Sorry.
 
To be honest, I just got a gut feeling when I interviewed at LECOM that I wanted to go there and I would be happiest there. LECOM just happened to be a DO school. I received interview offers from MD schools after I got accepted to LECOM, but I turned them down because I felt that LECOM was where I wanted to be.

And this "discrimination" you speak of is mainly by the pre-med community of SDN.
 
Thanks to those of you that have replied...I think I have a little better understanding now of your perspective.

My very best wishes to all, maybe I'll meet you some day.

Sincerely,

ChiroOrtho
(20 years in practice...and I must say, I'm glad I'm not a new guy, what with HMOs, PPOs, lawyers, HIPAA, etc., etc. But if I were a new guy, I'd still give it all I had and thank God that I have the privilege of serving the hurting):)
 
Originally posted by chiroortho
So, again, why choose DO?
I have been accepted to 2 MD schools and 2 DO schools, and will probably go to a DO school. The reason is I like to be a rebel and go against the grain. Another reason is location.
 
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I would like to responsd to the perceived "discrimination" by MD students toward DO students.
It is regional, and it stems from the initial isolated practice environment DO's USED to practice in. Their own hospitals, their own residencies (DO's can get into an MD residency but not vice versa), their own "hands on care". But generally today, in the practicing environment, the discrimination doesn't occur readily...especially when the DO is in the MD residency. The discrimination happens when the DO residency trained doc practices with the MD residency trained doc. It is the fear of the unknown. Unknown standards of training.
What MAY alleviate this?? ACGME accreditation, USMLE +OMT board certification exams, and we as DO's sharing our techniques with MD's. People are scared of the unknown...if we remove the "shroud of secrecy (sp?)" this much of the percieved discrimination will also end.
I would love to put an end to the idea of the D.O. standing for "Defensive Osteopath".
 
I have also been accepted by both DO and MD and I have chosen DO. Why? Can I put my finger on it? Yes. It was a feeling I got when I was at the school. It was like coming home from a long trip. You are sooooo glad to be home, you sink into your chair, breathe in and totally relax. That is how I felt at my school. It was home and I can't wait to start next fall.

The people were so welcoming, and I don't mean just the admissions people. I mean people we passed in the halls, saw in the bathrooms, met in the elevators, drove by in the parking lots. It was a feeling of family. My husband went back to the school to buy me a present from the bookstore. Total strangers talked to him in the halls and in the elevator. They escorted him to the bookstore and were talkative and helpful.

I didn't feel like this at the MD school's where I have interviewed and where I have been accepted. The feeling of home just wasn't there. I walked around and thought to myself,... do I really want to be here for the next 4 years? Not a question that came to mind at the DO school.

AS to OMM, I don't know this early in the game if I will use it or not. I really don't know enough about it to make that decision. I don't know if it works, but I am willing to learn it to make that judgment for myself. If I determine it does work, then I will use it, if not, I don't think it will make me less of a DO than a DO that does use it. In every profession, there are choices as to how you do your job and what from your education you chose to employ in the real world. Being a DO will be no different.

Just my opinion.:)
 
Easy answer to an easy question.

I chose to go DO and if I had a chance to go MD, I'd still go DO. Why? Because I will incorporate OMM in my practice. It's just that extra tool I'm comfortable using.

As a 3rd year, I've had the opportunity to rotate with MD preceptors. What do they do for musculoskeletal pain? Anti-inflammatories and pain meds. No immediate relief. The patient leaves the clinic still in pain. That's not to say they won't heal, it's just that it's a different approach. My approach is to use OMM to TREAT the condition and relieve the pain immediately, and then send the patient home with anti-inflammatories and pain meds just like the MD.
I've had success using OMM with many patients, but at times, have had difficulty completely relieving the symptoms. I can see only one downside to using OMM ----> the time factor. OMM takes time, and if you have a busy practice, sometimes it's just easier to see them for 10 minutes, write a scrip for meds, and go on to the next patient. Then again, if I practice that way, well.....let's just leave it at that.
 
Don't want to step on any toes, but I'm at an allopathic school, and I honestly don't know that much about the DO process. From what i gather so far, most DO's covet the allopathic residencies. But they originally went DO because they wanted more than just the MD, meaning the OMM, i guess. But allopathic residencies don't practice OMM, do DO residencies incorporate it? Or are DO residencies generally of a lesser quality than MD residencies in terms of opportunities to see patients? It seems like a pain in the ass for you guys, since you have to take both the COMLEX and the USMLE, but don't get to do OMM in an allopathic residency? Are there DO's who prefer a DO residency than an MD one? Again, If i am mistaken in my assumptions, please correct me. I've only heard of DO's, and have never gone to one, or looked into DO med schools. Thanks

By the way, don't flip out on me, i'm not looking to start a DO vs MD war, i've seen way too many of those on this site, I'm just trying to get a better understanding for the DO's i might be practicing with one day.
 
Buck Strong,

For the most part, you won't see much of a difference between the way MDs and DOs practice. They'll still be ordering the same labs, imagining studies, treatment protocol, etc. for someone with chest pain. The only difference may come into play when we're dealing with a musculoskeletal injury, either acute or chronic. However, there are only a small number of us...approx. 10-20% of DOs (according to AOA statistics) that will be incorporating OMM in our treatment plans. The reason others don't practice OMM may be because of time constraints, incompetence in OMM (you don't know how many 3rd years I know that still can't do any HVLA), or just plain don't want to have anything to do with OMM.
As far as residencies go, even though I'm shooting for an allopathic residency such as USC or Loma Linda, I will still be using OMM. I feel pretty competent in the specific OMM techniques I will be using after only 3 years of medical school. Now if I decide to use cranial manip or the other non-traditional type of osteopathic manipulative treatments, then I'd consider going the DO residency route. But since I'm not, I might as well go to a large hospital where I will see all kinds of pathologies. Hope this answers your question.
 
Buck Strong,

I'm exactly the kind of student you described. I personally chose the DO route because I wanted to learn more (OMM) and incorporate it into my practice of medicine.

As to your question of residencies, I personally have felt that the 5 D.O. Family Medicine residency programs just weren't either of the same caliber or there weren't as many opportunities offered (i.e. fellowships, location, etc.) as the 44+ M.D. residency programs out there. Just because it's a D.O. residency doesn't necessarily mean they incorporate OMM into the program itself either. Some do, some don't. As a matter of fact, as I have interviewed through multiple M.D. residency programs, I am almost always asked about my OMM skills and how comfortable I am teaching it. I would have never guessed it, but some programs are actively looking for D.O.'s who are strong in OMM and can teach it, and are hoping to integrate it into their residency program (at least in Family Medicine). So, the OMT has been a great strength and a great asset during my interviews!

I agree with NewAgeDO that it is sad to know that some of us don't take the time to really become proficient in OMM. They really are missing out on a valuable tool that can be integrated into treatment strategies.

Arnold Cuenca
MS-IV
Western University/COMP
 
Thanks guys, that clears up alot. It's a shame that there are only 5 FP DO residencies, you'd think that they would expand that a little?
 
It's a shame that there are only 5 FP DO residencies, you'd think that they would expand that a little?

Buck Strong, I believe aecuenca2 is referring to FP residencies in the area he's in. There are certainly more than 5 DO FP residencies total (!). For example, just in the state of Ohio's CORE system, there are 12 FP programs, for a total of 129 spots.

There are many DO residencies but not nearly enough to accomodate all DO graduates.
 
Originally posted by Shinken


There are many DO residencies but not nearly enough to accomodate all DO graduates.

The most recent issue of the JAOA proves this to be incorrect. In it, there are recent stats on AOA residencies--many spots go unfilled, especially in primary care.

In Texas, there are certainly not enough spots for TCOM grads that want to stay in state. But if you don't mind leaving, there are ample spots, apparently.

While it may be true that there are not enough spots for every DO to do an AOA residency, there are enough for those who wish to (with the exception of some specialties). The unfilled spots are likely a result of the large number of DOs who do ACGME residencies.
 
Woops! Sorry about that! The 5 FP D.O. residencies are in California.

Arnold Cuenca
MS-IV
Western University/COMP
 
Originally posted by sophiejane
While it may be true that there are not enough spots for every DO to do an AOA residency, ...

That's what I said. Many DO graduates go to ACGME residencies and that leaves many DO residencies open to those who want to take them, but if one day all DO graduates decide to only apply to DO residencies, there won't be enough for everyone.

It's funny and ironic that the allopathic profession wanted to wipe out DO's completely and now it's thanks to the allopathic residencies that the DO profession can grow and new schools can be founded almost yearly.
 
It is quite ironic and funny...isn't it?
 
It's the only way the profession can survive, in my opinion. And it's a good thing, I think. The next step needs to be allowing allopathic students into AOA residencies. I doubt they will be busting down the doors of osteopathic hospitals if theis ever happens, but it would be a nice goodwill gesture, and may go a long way towards healing some old wounds.
 
i'm an aussie wannabe DO...

there is nothing comparable to osteopathic medical education in Australia. there are good medical schools and then there are three universities offering five year osteopathy (OMM specialist) courses - which are first class, but don't qualify you as a physician.

i very much doubt i'll be able to, but i would love the chance to combine OMM with regular medical practice (for many systemic as well as NMS pain disorders).

i can see why you would accept if given a place at a DO college and not an MD one, but don't really see why you why one would go out of their way to become a DO if you're not going to apply yourself to manual medicine, unless OMM has become so non-essential to American osteopathic medicine.

i hear a lot about how OMM isn't the defining feature of osteo-athic medicine, but surely the college interviewers scrutinise prospective students for knowledge of and interest in OMM as much as any other feature of the profession.
 
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