Setember 11 - new secret info

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by BlackPuma, Mar 9, 2002.

  1. Israel had knowledge of the September 11 attacks...

    read below, this excerpt has appeared in UK and French Newspapers

    The US Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) announced on Tuesday 5 March that it has yet to level charges against any of the Israeli suspects it has detained in what is being described as the greatest revelation of an Israeli spying operation since the 1986 John Pollard case.

    Le Monde and Intelligence Online, a French online magazine, claim they have obtained a draft version of a secret US government report issued by the Justice Department which proves that an active Israeli intelligence network has been detected within America. It adds that there is proof that members of the network may have trailed suspected Al-Qa'eda operatives in the United States without informing federal authorities, leading to speculation over whether the Israeli government might have had prior knowledge of the events of 11 September.

    Intelligence Online was first to report that the investigation, which has been ongoing since April 2001, has led to 120 Israelis being detained or deported on immigration charges. According to the report it has obtained, which is dated June 2001, the ring was active in the states of Arkansas, California, Florida and Texas, and consisted of around 20 cells of between four and eight members, aged between 22 and 30 who had recently completed Israeli military service in an army intelligence division.

    According to the Justice Department report, the students represented themselves as art students and made efforts to gain access to sensitive federal office buildings and the homes of government employees, U.S. officials said. A draft report from the Drug Enforcement Administration ? which first characterized the activities as suspicious ? said the youths' actions "may well be an organized intelligence-gathering activity."

    Immigration officials deported them for visa violations; no criminal

    espionage charges were filed. The arrests, made in an unspecified number of major US cities from California to Florida, came amid public warnings from US intelligence agencies about suspicious behavior by people posing as Israeli art students and "attempting to bypass facility security and enter federal buildings."

    In Washington, however, U.S. law enforcement officials discounted the report, with one calling the assertion of a spy ring "a bogus story."

    In Washington on Tuesday, U.S. Justice Department spokeswoman Susan Dryden said of the Le Monde report, "At this time, we have no information to support this." US officials said that some Israeli students had been sent out of the country for immigration violations, not for spying. In Israel, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Yaffa Ben-Ari said it was "nonsense" that the students were spying on the United States. Another Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Irit Stopper, confirmed that a few Israelis posing as art students were expelled from the United States for working without permits. However they were not accused of espionage, she said. She did not say how many Israelis were expelled and did not give any additional details.

    According to the editor of Intelligence Online, Guillaume Dasquieh, the US government report issued by the Justice Department on March last year, reveals that the investigation has been ongoing since April 2001 and that the ring was active in the states of Arkansas, California, Florida and Texas, and consisted of around 20 cells of between four and eight members who were aged between 22 and 30 and had recently completed Israeli military service in an army intelligence division.

    Le Monde said more than one third of the suspected Israeli spies had lived in Florida, from January up until June last year, when the report was published, where at least 10 of the 19 Arabs involved in the September 11 airplane attacks on New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon were also based.

    The newspaper also said that it had learned that six suspected spies had used portable telephones bought by a former Israeli vice consul in the United States.

    The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) report said a majority of the young people questioned by US investigators acknowledged having served in military intelligence, electronic signals interception or explosive ordnance units in the Israeli military. The DEA said one person questioned was the son of a two-star Israeli general, one had served as the bodyguard to the head of the Israeli Army and another served in a Patriot missile unit.

    At least five of the Israelis had resided in Hollywood, Florida, the same town in which alleged hijacker Mohammad Atta and four of his accomplices in the attacks also lived, the paper said.

    Two Israelis lived in Fort Lauderdale, near Delray Beach, where hijackers in the planes that crashed into the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania resided temporarily, the report added.

    The U.S. Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, a federal agency, circulated a public warning in March 2001 urging employees to report contact with people describing themselves as Israeli art students.

    "These individuals have been described as aggressive," the warning said. "They attempt to engage employees in conversation rather than giving a sales pitch."

    Despite the strong alliance between Israel and the US, high-profile episodes of spying have been uncovered in the past, the most prominent of which was the 1986 life sentence given to Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew who passed U.S. military secrets to Israel.
     
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  3. u2sara

    u2sara Junior Member
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    This has nothing to do with the student doctor network and, besides, holding anything featured in a French newspaper or magazine about Israel as the truth in any matter is bs.

    Israel had NOTHING to do with September 11 and had they known about what was going to happen you can be sure they would've informed the proper US authorities. Israel is not our enemy, regardless of what the various lobbies may preach.

    I'm really disappointed to read this kind of rumor-- I expected better from SDN members. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
     
  4. this article appeared on Reuters, Associated Press, the UK Telegraph, BBC and The Guardian ....so please don't give me this crap about this being BS, all these are world prestigious news agencies

    this isn't a rumor! It also appeared on the Drudgerport, all 60 Israeli agents have been deported! Some ally!!!

    here is the link for the Reuters article!

    <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020305/ts_nm/israel_usa_spies_dc_2" target="_blank">Link</a>
     
  5. prometheus

    prometheus Member
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    I don't think the article says that Israel had "full" knowledge.
     
  6. I stand corrected :D I changed the title
     
  7. abefroman

    abefroman Senior Member
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    WhatchaMaCallit you must not have done too well on the verbal section of the MCAT with reading comprehension skills like that. The story says: "It adds that there is proof that members of the network MAY have trailed suspected Al-Qa'eda operatives in the United States without informing federal authorities, leading to SPECULATION over whether the Israeli government MIGHT have had prior knowledge of the events of 11 September." (emphasis added)

    Hardly proof that Israel had full knowledge, as you said...And anyway if they were trailing suspected Al Qaeda operatives in the U.S. they were doing so to try to prevent terrorist attacks.

    And I agree with U2sara. If you want to spread your anti-Israel propaganda do it somewhere else, not on SDN.
     
  8. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith
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    The news agencies were REPORTING ON A REPORT that CLAIMS to have obtained a secret US document. Not exactly the most reliable source. And even if this report turns out to be true, it is A FAR CRY from Israel having prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks.

    I agree with the others in saying this anti-Israel propaganda has no place on SDN, especially in the Pre-Allopathic forum. You should know better than that, Watcha.
     
  9. Resident Alien

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    so typical,
    say one thing against Israel and its a propaganda.
     
  10. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    Yes, it is propaganda and it sucks. Why try to blame Israel for the September 11 attack. That is the dumbest and most inane thing I've ever heard.
    This is just dumb. Please let us not try to blame Israel for some dastarly and cowardly act comitted by people who are Anti-semitic.
    Watchamacallit you need to take this back. Resident alien, shame on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
     
  11. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    Regardless of my feelings about this thread or the information it contains, to say that it is "propaganda" after it has been widely published in most of Western European media (& a lot of Eastern Europe, North Africa & also in several other countries worldwide,) and then to question the reliability of ALL those sources, simply because they are not American sources is simply ABSURD. So no other news source is credible, other than America's? Step out of your CNN box please-- there is a whole other globe out there to explore. :rolleyes:
     
  12. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    Why does this have "no place on SDN"? Surely we argue/discuss many other articles, why not this? I'm not saying I agree w/this article, but like praying said, "please step outside of your CNN box"!!! :rolleyes:
     
  13. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    Praying4MD I take it that you don't understand the word propaganda. I suggest you invest in a dictionary.
    Meanwhile, our objection is against the conclusion that is drawn from an article that carries the tone of sheer speculation and hearsay.
    Our beef is not with Reuter or BBC or whatever.
     
  14. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    This discussion certainly does not belong in pre-allopathic.
    What has someones speculation about Israel's participation in the 9/11 attack have to do with medicine.
    Jamier 2 where @ thou? I never thought I'll have to implore you to end a discussion but please so something. I find this very disturbing.

    How mean can you be to buy into this anti-semitic propaganda?
     
  15. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    you're right, it should be in the lounge, but I think its definitely something that can be discussed...people can draw whatever thoughts/opinions they want to after reading it, I don't understand why you people are so against someone expressing their viewpoint? You don't have to agree with it!
     
  16. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by simseema17:
    <strong>you're right, it should be in the lounge, but I think its definitely something that can be discussed...people can draw whatever thoughts/opinions they want to after reading it, I don't understand why you people are so against someone expressing their viewpoint? You don't have to agree with it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EXACTLY!! Why should it be hush-hush and not discussed? This is what I'm talking about when I say that America isn't what it used to be.
     
  17. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    sinseema Can you imagine a world where we all agree?
    Sometimes it is very important to disagree with people. If enough people had disagreed with Stalin and Hitler the world would not have had to go through so much pain.
    While people are entitled to their opinions, their opinions have to be vehemently opposed if the are destructive.
    The anti-semitic ideas that have laced this thread are destructive and I feel honor bound to oppose it with every fiber of my being.
     
  18. mwilson

    mwilson treo
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    Hey c'mon guys,

    I agree that this isn't the appropriate place to post this stuff, but there's nothing in that article that sounds anti-semitic or like propaganda. There were reports on NPR weeks ago about a large group of Israeli students who had been detained in the initial round-ups of people after 9/11. The report was using them as an example to show how random those round-ups of foreign nationals were. If there are now things POSSIBLY coming to light about that situation, and they're being reported on, what's the big deal. I don't think that it would be surprising (as the Pollard case demonstrated) that Israel would spy on us as I am sure we spy on our allies all the time. Don't see what the big deal is. Of course, if there was information that wasn't shared, that would be another story -- not that it would be a result of any maliciousness on the Israeli side but probably just due to turf wars between different intelligence agencies, etc.

    peace
     
  19. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    quake I agree with this exactly: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">While people are entitled to their opinions, their opinions have to be vehemently opposed if the are destructive.
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So instead of just deleting or closing this thread, don't you think both sides can argue their opinions. I have disagreed (sometimes heatedly w/topics), particulary w/thebeyonder, macgyver, etc, but that doesn't mean we should close the threads. They've said things which I think are very racist, etc, but I think just deleting the thread is useless...if it bothers you, either express your opinions or don't read it.
     
  20. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    I agree, I don't really see any anti-semitism or propanada in the article.
     
  21. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    mwilson, I am not raving at the media but at watchamacallit and the others who seem to think that the article is saying that Israel had an IN on the 9/11 attack and maliciously refused to share the information. Therefore intentionally, permitting the loss of thousands of life. If that is not propaganda and anti-semitic... I don't know what is
     
  22. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    Fine Sinseema17, as you like it. I shall Oppose all anti-semitic remarks with vehemence until everybody gets tired of this thread. Lets keep the thread alive and may the games begin.
     
  23. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    So what you're saying is, if anything is called out on Israeli's, automatically it's anti-semitic? Just because the article suggests that they might have had something to do w/9/11, doesn't make it anti-semitic...
     
  24. quake maybe you should be the one to consult your dictionary. propaganda can be used to mean disinformation, rumors, and lies. the word was used properly.

    why do so many bigots here tell people to go off and read a dictionary whenever they disagree with them and find a minor error in their language. is that a way to call them stupid or demean them? why not just attack the argument and not the person?
     
  25. edogg

    edogg Member
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    Israeli intelligence scares me. Have any of you read any of the books on Mossad? Its some scary stuff. There has been a lot of evidence building up that Israel did indeed have knowledge of the September 11th attacks. This by no means says that they had a role in the attacks, but rather they let it happen. This evendence has been compiling since September 11th. I do think that the United States did indeed break up a huge espionage ring.

    <a href="http://www.intelligenceonline.com/images/newversion/reseau/HTML/isr-net_A.htm" target="_blank">The Texas Part of the Israeli Spy Ring</a>

    The thing that bothers me is why do these guys get away with it? Why does Israel get away with so much abuse of power? Why is Isreal allowed to be the nation to have the most UN sanctions, and yet US seems to always veto them out of their UN problems? I think that Isreal controls the United States. Their lobby power is strong to the point of scary. Even Sharon said it in a parliament meeting "we control the US." Well thats just my opinion, and I love to hear the opinions of others.

    How many of you have heard of the USS liberty?

    <a href="http://www.ussliberty.org/" target="_blank">USS Liberty Homepage</a>
     
  26. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending
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    It seems that many people became automatically defensive after reading this thread. Why? Name me one country whose political party/foreign policy is faultless or righteous. The word propaganda was used to describe the original post. This may be true, but no more true than the propaganda that exists in all of media (i.e bush's comments about good over evil/ the axis of evil). I love the United States, but I am ashamed of much of their past foreign policy. You can't deny that our own media is full of propaganda.

    I shouls stop here b/c I really don't want to get involved in the whole "holy land" discussion and who is who in it. I just wanted to say that those who were quick to call that post propaganda should realize that they are under the influence of some other propaganda.

    Citizen of the world.
     
  27. mwilson

    mwilson treo
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by quake:
    <strong>mwilson, I am not raving at the media but at watchamacallit and the others who seem to think that the article is saying that Israel had an IN on the 9/11 attack and maliciously refused to share the information. Therefore intentionally, permitting the loss of thousands of life. If that is not propaganda and anti-semitic... I don't know what is</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point taken, quake. You are totally right on that score. I guess that I just didn't (didn't want to) interpret the comments in that way. Having some knowledge about something your enemy may be planning and actually participating in or permitting its execution are two very different things. I understood them to be suggesting that the former was possible, probably because to claim the latter would be ridiculous. However ridiculous such claims may be though, that is the terrible tragedy of Jewish history -- people making ludicrous and malicious claims about the Jewish people.
     
  28. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    A caveman, I'm pale with embarassment right now at YOUR bigotry. Read my post again and you would see how silly you sound. You seem to have missed the fact that I was pointing out that IT WAS propaganda. Meanwhile you seem to be saying the same thing. I don't think you've had any sleep. I find that you sound like the BIGOT here.

    To the others who just posted you are welcome to dig up dirt on Israel, the US or any nation. This is your prerogative but please be careful about concluding or even inferring that Israel is soemhow responsible for 9/11. You are the very people who are pointing out that America is Israels' greatest ally, why then would Israel want to detsroy this relationship by intentionally permitting the attack on the WTC, where is the logic in this?
     
  29. Papa Smurf

    Papa Smurf Thug 4 Life
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    I can see this is going to turn into a Muslims vs Jews thread. Both sides are very defensive, and understandably so. However, the last thing we need is more division people. Everybody just stay calm, and don't make extreme inferences based on other people's posts. Watcha has a right to post whatever he wants, it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Jamier2 will be moving this to the Lounge soon enough.
     
  30. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    Mwilson, you are a great person to at least try to see it my way. I have read the original post of this thread over and over again to convince myself that watcha was not accusing ISrael of anything but it still seems that the original post was somehow anti-Israel.. but I could be wrong.
     
  31. vixen

    vixen I like members
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    quake, I'm just wondering as to why you're so defensive about it. I'm neither muslim, nor jewish, but I hope it doesn't turn into a attack on either religion. Like I've said, I just don't see where there's ANY propaganda in there.
     
  32. quake

    quake Senior Member
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    Sinseema, I am neither Jewish nor muslim. I just find it disturbing that during this period of increasing unrest in the middle-east some interests have started throwing information and opinions out there that has the potential of turning the whole world against Israel. That just doesn't feel right. This is why I'm so defensive.
     
  33. Street Philosopher

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Vader:
    <strong>The news agencies were REPORTING ON A REPORT that CLAIMS to have obtained a secret US document. Not exactly the most reliable source. And even if this report turns out to be true, it is A FAR CRY from Israel having prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks.
    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This needs to be repeated.
     
  34. jargon124

    jargon124 Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by abefroman:
    <strong>WhatchaMaCallit you must not have done too well on the verbal section of the MCAT with reading comprehension skills like that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ouch. There's no reason to get NASTY! Lol. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  35. edogg

    edogg Member
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    we are all products of american media.
     

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