Seton Hall's Program?

[Scorcher31]

I was curious if anyone here knew or even heard anything about Seton Hall's psychiatry program? For whatever reason, not many people down here seem to know that much about it aside from what's on the website. Any input would be great. Thanks for your help!

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[whopper]

I can tell you these things...

1-its a relatively new program. I think its only 2-3 years old.

2-its in Northern NJ--> the area of the state that gives NJ its bad reputation, and in Elizabeth no less-which is considered one of the worst cities in the state.
http://colorantshistory.org/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/borne-chemical-co-main-office-1997.jpg

(Yes, that pic is a bit on the worse side of what you'll see in Elizabeth, but it is something on the order you'll see often there).

Other than that I can't tell you much about this program. The program being in Elizabeth shouldn't be a deterrent except that you'll have to live in Elizabeth or a close area which probably would not be as hospitable vs. several other programs. Sometimes being in a tougher area can lead to more challenging cases that can make you a better doctor.

It being a new program and in community hospitals makes it very likely they very little if any research. I could be wrong on that.

 

[Scorcher31]

Thanks whopper I appreciate the input. I was looking for one or two more interviews to round everything out, but I may still have time for some more to come in. Unfortunately most of the ones left on my list are places i know i dont have interest in or may not give me the time of day as a DO like Upenn. I have 11 interviews scheduled so I might just sit on that and see what else comes in.

I was asking because i knew too little about seton hall's program due to the fact it's new. I'm still open to the program but am going to hold off on my interview for now. If anyone knows anything good or bad about the program i.e. they interviewed, rotated, are house staff or an attending there I'd love to know more.

 

[kev2180]

Has anybody had an interview there?

 

[wolfvgang22]

Has anybody had an interview there?

I actually interviewed there last year as I was in the neighborhood, and I liked dSeton Hall's colors and website and got curious. The residents seemed very cohesive, the attendings seemed supportive, and the program director is working very hard to develop this program, though it's only 3 years old now. It's relatively close to NY city, but I got the impression the residents all worked way too hard to have much opportunity to go there, though they seemed happy.

I think the training would be good because you are really "in the trenches" there in Elizabeth, and they seem to see it all. They were in the process of piecemeal remodeling their inpatient psych building, but it still had that upper NJ run down urban feel to it.

I got the feeling that it was not very competitive because it's new and the location. I was all but offered a prematch on the spot.
They seemed to be understaffed with nurses and support staff also, which is a concern.

 

[whopper]

If it's understaffed, that raises the possibility that there'll be more scutwork.

I do know of a specific hospital in Northern NJ which at least had some affiliation (about 6 years ago, don't know if it has that affiliation now) to Seton Hall was understaffed, and the nursing staff at every opportunity tried to dump work to residents.

E.g. the hospital had a rule that the nurses had to try at least 3 times to obtain a blood sample. If they couldn't, then the residents had to obtain it. Several of the nurses didn't even attempt to obtain the sample as evidenced by the patients telling the residents there was no prior attempt. Then if the resident tried to make the nurse do it, she wouldn't show up for hours. That in turn sometimes made an attending blow up in anger and tell the resident to get it or their goose was cooked.

As you could imagine, residents were pretty much doing much of the work the nurses were supposed to do. Hey, the hospital didn't seem to care. Their residents couldn't do anything about it, and it made for happier employees that actually had some power--the nurses.

The same hospital was doing plenty of other bad things to the residents. E.g. sometimes on occasion they had to pull 2 all nighter calls in a row.

That time of hell environment IMHO did lead to me getting a better education as a medical student. The residents were worked so hard, they made the medical students do a lot of things students don't do that only residents did. However that is not a statement that the hard work would make you a better resident. IMHO there's only so much to learn by getting an arterial blood sample. After a few times, you got the point. Focusing on that type of work 3 out of 3 years of IM residency is just a waste of time and a demoralizer.

Of course this was 6 years ago. I do know that as I was leaving that hospital, they were making several improvements because of then then new 80 work cap among other resident protections which were not yet in place at the time.

And that is no statement on the Seton Hall program itself. 6 years ago, and at an affiliated hospital in a different program is not the same thing has being in the same program.

 

[kev2180]

I actually interviewed there last year as I was in the neighborhood, and I liked dSeton Hall's colors and website and got curious. The residents seemed very cohesive, the attendings seemed supportive, and the program director is working very hard to develop this program, though it's only 3 years old now. It's relatively close to NY city, but I got the impression the residents all worked way too hard to have much opportunity to go there, though they seemed happy.

I think the training would be good because you are really "in the trenches" there in Elizabeth, and they seem to see it all. They were in the process of piecemeal remodeling their inpatient psych building, but it still had that upper NJ run down urban feel to it.

I got the feeling that it was not very competitive because it's new and the location. I was all but offered a prematch on the spot.
They seemed to be understaffed with nurses and support staff also, which is a concern.

Do they offer prematch?
What do you mean by: " I was all but offered a prematch on the spot."?

 

[Dharma]

Bump. Any updates/opinions on this program?

 

[njmedstudent973]

I interviewed here last year: Here's what happened

The interview day was scheduled to begin at 12pm. There were 3 or 4 of us in the lobby at like 11:45 waiting for it to begin. 12pm rolls around and no one comes down to see us. Okay so maybe they're late. 12:15..nobody. Call the program coordinator..no reply.. 12:30 one of the residents comes down to the lobby to get us. Tells us that no one told him that he was suppose to meet us. (First red flag). Takes us to eat at the hospital cafeteria where he tells us you get unlimited meal cards so its the best. Granted the food was not that great. Spoke to him about the residency as we were walking and what he liked or how he chose this program...switched out of IM because "he didnt like it" "too much work" got into this program because his brother was a 3rd or 4th yr? (2nd red flag). Told me the rotations are so laid back that you dont even have to show up , i.e in his neuro block he said he would just not even go. All of the applicants that day had the same puzzled look like WTF is this place?! Took us to psych hospital were we sat in this room with all the residents who look tired and didnt really want to be there. First interview was with two attendings in this small room, one siting on each side of me asking me questions. It was really awkward setting especially trying to make eye contact with both of them. They went through my transcripts and scores and then asked me where else I was interviewing and what I was currently doing. When i told them where I was currently doing my sub I in inpatient psych they asked me a million questions about their program, the pd, their attendings which i thought was strange. They further were intrigued at the other hospitals I got interviews from because clearly they were at a different tier than their program which they even stated which i was like (?) why would you tell me those are better programs than yours (?) Needless to say awkward first interview. Oh and to mind you when applying here no where on their website did it ever mention this was pre-match spot. We all found out when we got there. (4th red flag). Brought me back in the room with the residents where i waited almost 30-40 mins to meet with the PD. For the most part the residents seemed okay but questionable. They made a lot of references to their recreational activities outside of the program specifically calling out one of their residents. I mean im all for recreational fun but Id say its highly inappropriate to discuss that during an interview session with potential applicants. One guy was so obnoxious I wanted to legit tell him to shut up. He made off the mark racial and ethnic jokes which coming from him i thought was inappropriate ( Guy thought he was Tosh.O or some ****. ) He also asked me what my ideal program is and that I couldnt say Setan Hall. Uh ? What? Needless to say I knew right then if they offered me a pre match Id pleasantly decline. I also took the opportunity to tell him all the other programs I had interview invites from since he kept pressing me on the topic. When the other residents heard the number of interviews I had they were all shocked because it was a significant amount and I assume they had far less. They also made it seem like it was a blessing for them to have matched their cause they werent going to match. (MAJOR RED FLAG) I think one mentioned to just passing step 1 and laughing about it. The interview with the PD kind of went the same way. She asked me why them and told me it was pre-match position and asked me where else I'm interviewing at with an oh **** look on her face. So clearly I guess she knew I probably wouldnt take their pre-match. At the end of the day it was already close to 5:30 and the program coordinator was like oh do you guys want me to take you on a tour? All of us applicants declined LOL. This was probably the funniest and worst interview I went on all season. As far as neighborhood goes its yeah not the best place to live at but Im from north jersey so Im use to it and honestly the only draw to the program is how close it is to NYC. Couldn't be happier where I ended up matching

Maybe things are different. Who knows. What I got was they take probably offer pre-match positions to people they know are more likely to take them because they arent a strong applicant because from the sound of their residents it seems like a lot of them were probably not the best applicants to begin with.

 

[PistolPete]

Wow. Enough said.

 

[Dharma]

Ouch. Thanks for the low down. I had my suspicions already, but whoa!