SGU August 2021 CFP

[deleted354689]

I was recently accepted into SGU August CFP. Is there anyone else joining this class?

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[8jsi37]

Maybe you should read up on the previous posts about SGU and caribbean in general. There's a lot going on with SGU rn that it might not be recommended to attend.

 

[spiritcat13]

Maybe you should read up on the previous posts about SGU and caribbean in general. There's a lot going on with SGU rn that it might not be recommended to attend.

Which post? Can you post the link to the thread?

 

[gyngyn]

Which post? Can you post the link to the thread?

SGU withdrawing CAAM-HP accreditation?

Not for me. Asking for a friend of mine who is about to attend. He was just informed that SGU is withdrawing from the CAAM-HP accreditation Let me know what this means and if it is a big issue. Thanks

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[suzygroanberg]

Just FYI, no one at SGU is worried about the school's ability to maintain accreditation and this is not the first time there have been changes in the system. I went through CFP myself and just recently matched. I would be happy to answer any specific questions you have here, or you can feel free to PM me

 

[deleted1085158]

Just FYI, no one at SGU is worried about the school's ability to maintain accreditation and this is not the first time there have been changes in the system. I went through CFP myself and just recently matched. I would be happy to answer any specific questions you have here, or you can feel free to PM me

If you recently matched, how are you speaking for people on the island lol? I smell troll.

 

[Gambino.]

Just FYI, no one at SGU is worried about the school's ability to maintain accreditation and this is not the first time there have been changes in the system. I went through CFP myself and just recently matched. I would be happy to answer any specific questions you have here, or you can feel free to PM me

This is the first time they have lost/given up CAAM-HP accreditation. They aren't maintaining anything, they are now trying to get GMDE recognized which is different than maintaining a valid accreditation.

 

[8jsi37]

Just FYI, no one at SGU is worried about the school's ability to maintain accreditation and this is not the first time there have been changes in the system. I went through CFP myself and just recently matched. I would be happy to answer any specific questions you have here, or you can feel free to PM me

You really don't understand the situation. I can't tell if this is a troll or an SGU employee. The new changes do not affect you whatsoever if you are truly an SGU student. It doesn't because you already took your step 1, 2ck, 2cs already while the new changes affect those who have not yet.

If you already match (which match day has arrived yet), that means either you pre-matched or you graduated/matched back in 2020. If it's the latter, then you're already out of the system. Regardless, there is still an unknown certainty right now.

 

[suzygroanberg]

I matched in one of the early matches, not a troll. There is really so much disinformation on here about SGU so I have the time now to pay forward all the help I got along the way for those who are seriously considering this option. No need to get snippy. Again, I am here for a completely honest and well-informed discussion if anyone wants.

 

[8jsi37]

You're the one who gave out the wrong info LOL. Here's something you mentioned, but yet never addressed what I said to you. I'm not being snippy. i'm presenting the facts.

Nonetheless, I do think you ARE paying for assurance in the match with your SGU tuition. You are also paying for guaranteed clinical rotation spots, which from what I understand can be extremely hard to come by at other Caribbean schools and potentially may set your graduation date back if you cannot scramble to get them all arranged in time.

Take a look at Ross's clinical years. They been having one location for your core rotations during your third year, so it's not just sgu that has that. If anything, you're the one giving misguided information. Plus, there isn't a 100% assurance to match if you go to SGU.

What we are saying is the reality. I don't doubt sgu's ability to get the accreditations again, but you also have to realize there is a percentage that they might not. With that in mind, it becomes really hard to attend a school that gave up their pre-existing accreditations that worked for them for the past so many years/decades for something entirely brand new. Obviously, that's gonna draw some question marks. The high tuition doesn't justify enough for what they provide that the other caribbean schools like Ross doesnt already provide (I would include AUC as well, but your initial post was against auc). We all know that once you're within the big 3, the biggest determining factor for IVs for residency is your step 1 score (as of right now). Step 1 >>> a student's school name/prestige within the big 3.

 

[suzygroanberg]

There is never a 100% assurance of matching at any school, but if you are going the Caribbean route there are several factors that do help you out a lot at SGU compared to others, which is why I chose the school myself. The biggest thing that helped me was our massive network of alumni in the field who were able to provide tons of insight, advice, and connections to get me where I wanted to be (i.e. in a very small, competitive, and specialized field). I was also told several times on the interview trail that "at least I chose the best school in the Caribbean," so I do believe (as I always have) the SGU is the best and safest choice if you're going this route. Anecdotal evidence, I know - but if people are resorting to SDN for information then they obviously do not have friends who have been through this that they can speak to, so again I am happy to provide my experiences. I did have the luxury of speaking to many SGU students and grads before starting med school and they were very helpful in my decision making.

Another thing to consider in terms of student experience is the fact that we have a full university with a vet school and undergrad on 1 island, so it is a very well-funded and comfortable campus for pre-clinical life. (I could go on with other pros, but really am not trying to create an advertisement here.) Yes, your step scores are going to be the most important thing for matching regardless, but a solid pre-clinical experience with the support and lifestyle that I know exists at SGU cannot be minimized. You can't get a killer step score without a good foundation.

Of course I understand that there is some inherent risk associated with the change in accreditation, but knowing what I do about the school I am extremely confident in saying that I cannot imagine a situation in which the administration would ever actually jeopardize this cash cow. The school would obviously become worthless if students could not practice in the US.

Therefore, as a student who has actually been through this entire process I still say I would chose SGU every time if I could go back and do it again, even with going through the CFP program first. Ascribe whatever value you want to what the doom-and-gloom from those who have inherent disdain for the Caribbean. If there is nothing else you want than to be a doctor and this is the path your are choosing or need to take, I am still very happy to continue discussing pros/cons, tips, and pitfalls of the journey.

 

[deleted1085158]

There is never a 100% assurance of matching at any school, but if you are going the Caribbean route there are several factors that do help you out a lot at SGU compared to others, which is why I chose the school myself. The biggest thing that helped me was our massive network of alumni in the field who were able to provide tons of insight, advice, and connections to get me where I wanted to be (i.e. in a very small, competitive, and specialized field). I was also told several times on the interview trail that "at least I chose the best school in the Caribbean," so I do believe (as I always have) the SGU is the best and safest choice if you're going this route. Anecdotal evidence, I know - but if people are resorting to SDN for information then they obviously do not have friends who have been through this that they can speak to, so again I am happy to provide my experiences. I did have the luxury of speaking to many SGU students and grads before starting med school and they were very helpful in my decision making.

Another thing to consider in terms of student experience is the fact that we have a full university with a vet school and undergrad on 1 island, so it is a very well-funded and comfortable campus for pre-clinical life. (I could go on with other pros, but really am not trying to create an advertisement here.) Yes, your step scores are going to be the most important thing for matching regardless, but a solid pre-clinical experience with the support and lifestyle that I know exists at SGU cannot be minimized. You can't get a killer step score without a good foundation.

Of course I understand that there is some inherent risk associated with the change in accreditation, but knowing what I do about the school I am extremely confident in saying that I cannot imagine a situation in which the administration would ever actually jeopardize this cash cow. The school would obviously become worthless if students could not practice in the US.

Therefore, as a student who has actually been through this entire process I still say I would chose SGU every time if I could go back and do it again, even with going through the CFP program first. Ascribe whatever value you want to what the doom-and-gloom from those who have inherent disdain for the Caribbean. If there is nothing else you want than to be a doctor and this is the path your are choosing or need to take, I am still very happy to continue discussing pros/cons, tips, and pitfalls of the journey.

I do agree with you on one point and that is some of these "IMG-specific" programs do only look at SGU students. So in that regard, SGU is the better of the Caribbean schools in that they do have a legitimate "network."

Here is one example: Residents - Overlook Internal Medicine Residency - Atlantic Health

The problem with you trying to sell SGU to a prospective student is that you have to explain why 100% of the students who start in Grenada--and pay money to the school, don't match into a residency after four years. Explain that to us because SGU tuition is $34000 per term and the program has 10 terms in total. I'm calculating $400000 or more for the whole experience with expenses.

 

[8jsi37]

There is never a 100% assurance of matching at any school, but if you are going the Caribbean route there are several factors that do help you out a lot at SGU compared to others, which is why I chose the school myself. The biggest thing that helped me was our massive network of alumni in the field who were able to provide tons of insight, advice, and connections to get me where I wanted to be (i.e. in a very small, competitive, and specialized field). I was also told several times on the interview trail that "at least I chose the best school in the Caribbean," so I do believe (as I always have) the SGU is the best and safest choice if you're going this route. Anecdotal evidence, I know - but if people are resorting to SDN for information then they obviously do not have friends who have been through this that they can speak to, so again I am happy to provide my experiences. I did have the luxury of speaking to many SGU students and grads before starting med school and they were very helpful in my decision making.

Sure, but you also have to compare that to the other big schools like Ross. They have a large alumni base too. If anything, ross also has multiple residencies that takes mostly ross students over other caribbean schools. Likewise, other IMG friendly residencies mostly take from auc, aua, etc. What you're saying isnt really anything new or specifc towards SGU only. I understand that SGU is the better option compared to the ones outside the big 3, but truthfully, once you're within the big 3, it's pretty much very similar.

Another thing to consider in terms of student experience is the fact that we have a full university with a vet school and undergrad on 1 island, so it is a very well-funded and comfortable campus for pre-clinical life. (I could go on with other pros, but really am not trying to create an advertisement here.) Yes, your step scores are going to be the most important thing for matching regardless, but a solid pre-clinical experience with the support and lifestyle that I know exists at SGU cannot be minimized. You can't get a killer step score without a good foundation.

Of course I understand that there is some inherent risk associated with the change in accreditation, but knowing what I do about the school I am extremely confident in saying that I cannot imagine a situation in which the administration would ever actually jeopardize this cash cow. The school would obviously become worthless if students could not practice in the US.

Therefore, as a student who has actually been through this entire process I still say I would chose SGU every time if I could go back and do it again, even with going through the CFP program first. Ascribe whatever value you want to what the doom-and-gloom from those who have inherent disdain for the Caribbean. If there is nothing else you want than to be a doctor and this is the path your are choosing or need to take, I am still very happy to continue discussing pros/cons, tips, and pitfalls of the journey.

If we're talking about funds, then it's well funded because of the tuition they charge you. Having a vet school doesnt equate the med school being the best, etc. Pretty much what im saying is that in the big 3, your foundations for pre-clinical and step is the same. Multiple students from both ross and auc have gone and killed the step. Like i said, it's similar within the big 3, but vastly different outside the big 3. I dont have any hate towards the caribbean. I'm strictly speaking off of facts and not anecdotal data.

I do agree with you on one point and that is some of these "IMG-specific" programs do only look at SGU students. So in that regard, SGU is the better of the Caribbean schools in that they do have a legitimate "network."

Here is one example: Residents - Overlook Internal Medicine Residency - Atlantic Health

You also have to realize that most IMG friendly places are willing to take IMGs in general. Per residency explorer, it says that the program is 66% SGU, which means the other 34% are towards other applicants (most likely IMGs). That program is not strictly SGU only. It's SGU favored, but not SGU only. It's mostly IMG friendly. I understand the large base but also you have to take in the fact that other schools are similar too. For example, AUA and Ross has their own "favored" residency. I think I saw one in texas for AUA and CCF in FL for Ross. Obv, there's less for aua, but in general, img friendly residencies are IMG friendly. Not to take that away from SGU, and it's great that they have a very highly favorable residency for them. It's just schools within the big 3 have something similar to it.

I agree with you on your statement afterward tho about the tuition!

 

[deleted1085158]

You also have to realize that most IMG friendly places are willing to take IMGs in general. Per residency explorer, it says that the program is 66% SGU, which means the other 34% are towards other applicants (most likely IMGs). That program is not strictly SGU only. It's SGU favored, but not SGU only. It's mostly IMG friendly. I understand the large base but also you have to take in the fact that other schools are similar too. For example, AUA and Ross has their own "favored" residency. I think I saw one in texas for AUA and CCF in FL for Ross. Obv, there's less for aua, but in general, img friendly residencies are IMG friendly. Not to take that away from SGU, and it's great that they have a very highly favorable residency for them. It's just schools within the big 3 have something similar to it.

I'm on the East Coast. I don't know where you are located but a lot of these SGU programs in the NY area will only look at SGU grads for their programs if they are considering Caribbean IMG's. Now if you are referring to some inner city hospitals that take other students from other schools exclusively then I do get your point but those are programs that even SGU people do not want to go to! Wykoff Heights comes to mind.

With the hospital program that I referenced above, that is considered a clinical center for SGU where students can complete five or so of their core rotations at that location. I don't see that type of a setup at these other schools where I keep hearing about students moving from one geographical location to another.

I'm not an SGU fan by any means but their clinical setup is much better than what I can see from the other schools down there.

 

[suzygroanberg]

Again this is where having someone who actually has been through the process, and not just someone speculating on the internet, comes in handy. My field has zero IMG-specific residency programs and I still received the benefits of being at "the best in the Caribbean."

To respond to your question, Caribbean schools do deal with an inherently risky group of students. Whether you see this as a pro or a con, SGU gives many people the chance to become a doctor when they may not have otherwise had one. Some people may have had genuine reasons for poor performance in undergrad or realize later there are things they could have done in the past to be better - these students do have an excellent chance of succeeding in med school. Other people may have chronic uncorrectable problems that are unlikely to ever be conducive to a productive professional life (e.g. I can think of a couple students I know did very poorly and dropped out because of mental health issues, and several more who simply lacked the maturity to maintain the drive necessary for med school.) The problem is, it is obviously extremely difficult to tell the difference during the admissions process. Programs like CFP and MSAP help the school to ensure that it is doing everything in its power not to set people up for failure. Not to mention, I would say the vast majority people who leave do so voluntarily in the first term after realizing either life in the Caribbean or med school is not what they thought it would be.

Personally, I do not at all think the attrition rate says anything, for the most part, about the school (I actually kind of wish there were stricter expulsion criteria for those who fail a term, since this whole experience is already a "second chance" of sorts, and it really is predatory to have people repeating multiple terms if it is something like mental illness interfering with their studies/understanding of the greater situation.) I would venture to say that not all of the students who fully make it through med school in the US could have done it without a questionable amount of hand-holding on their school's part. The difference is that SGU is a big school and you won't have anyone breathing down your neck if you find yourself doing poorly. You will need to have the self-awareness to speak up, ask for help, and re-vamp your approach to the material. That being said, I know for a fact how much support there is for those who reach out for it (que Dumbledore quote), so I remain very comfortable in say that your outcomes at SGU will be a reflection of the effort you put in. 99% of the time there is no one holding you back but yourself.

 

[deleted1085158]

someone who actually has been through the process

This is an anonymous forum. We don't know who you are. You are simply saying you are who you are. You could be from the school's administration.

 

[suzygroanberg]

Ok, and you 100% have are not and never have been a student at SGU. If I did not want to protect my anonymity I would be more specific about my particular experiences. Tbh you could already figure out easily who I am based on the small amount of info I have already given here (if you do please I ask you to please protect my anonymity as well). I promise you I am a student.

ETA: if you are questioning my identity as a student just because I am sharing positive experiences then good. My whole purpose here is simply to show that there is not just doom and gloom and you are not out of your mind for choosing the Caribbean, specifically SGU. There are many pros and of course many cons to consider, but this is a viable option for many people. That is all.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

LOL... these img friendly residencies are nothing more than malignant sweat shops where no USMD or DO grad would ever want to go, truth is as an carribean grad your the equivalent of D3, that means your the bottom of the very bottom choice for any residency, even below FMG’s who need visas for any half way decent residency. For even low tier university IM(very Carib friendly specialty) you will seldom see a Carib grad and that Carib grad would have had to outwork the USMD and DO counterparts, and that’s at a low tier residency. Mid tier IM I.e CCF, Univerisity of FL Gainesville, U of Arizona etc will almost never touch a Carib grad even if they had a 250+ step... top tier in any residency/fellowship will forever be closed off to Carib grads. It’s a tough go for Carib grads, who have to outwork everyone to match at some sweatshop.

 

[Gambino.]

My whole purpose here is simply to show that there is not just doom and gloom and you are not out of your mind for choosing the Caribbean, specifically SGU. There are many pros and of course many cons to consider, but this is a viable option for many people. That is all.

Doom and gloom isn't what is spread on the forums. Just state the important factors, such as attrition rate, placement rate, and pre-clinical/clinical experience. Everyone knows that it is possible to navigate through the Caribbean system but less people know the hard facts. As a current carib student I went into it knowing the 25-35% attrition rate and high likelihood of having to match primary care; that's all that is really important.

It does sound like you are sugarcoating SGU a bit in regards to accreditation status. As stated multiple times; most people here believe that they will gain some sort of necessary accreditation/recognition to keep allowing for their students to be USMLE eligible. The more concerning part is why they were put on probation and withdrew from an already established accrediting body that is WFME recognized. There ARE issues going on that haven't been fully been disclosed by their administration in regards to this, how serious they are has yet to be seen.

 

[deleted1085158]

LOL... these img friendly residencies are nothing more than malignant sweat shops where no USMD or DO grad would ever want to go, truth is as an carribean grad your the equivalent of D3, that means your the bottom of the very bottom choice for any residency, even below FMG’s who need visas for any half way decent residency. For even low tier university IM(very Carib friendly specialty) you will seldom see a Carib grad and that Carib grad would have had to outwork the USMD and DO counterparts, and that’s at a low tier residency. Mid tier IM I.e CCF, Univerisity of FL Gainesville, U of Arizona etc will almost never touch a Carib grad even if they had a 250+ step... top tier in any residency/fellowship will forever be closed off to Carib grads. It’s a tough go for Carib grads, who have to outwork everyone to match at some sweatshop.

I get what you mean but I wouldn't say sweatshop.

The SGU clinical network is an East Coast thing primarily. I'm in New York and a lot of these community programs are filled with IMG's. Those programs you mention are not IMG-friendly.

The hospital I referenced above is actually a very good program in New Jersey but it is basically open for SGU grads only and has been that way for as long as I can remember.

The lower-tier schools I would say send their students to the sweatshops. Look up Wykoff Heights medical center.

 

[Marche med student]

I get what you mean but I wouldn't say sweatshop.

The SGU clinical network is an East Coast thing primarily. I'm in New York and a lot of these community programs are filled with IMG's. Those programs you mention are not IMG-friendly.

The hospital I referenced above is actually a very good program in New Jersey but it is basically open for SGU grads only and has been that way for as long as I can remember.

The lower-tier schools I would say send their students to the sweatshops. Look up Wykoff Heights medical center.

I keep hearing about the East coast - SGU affiliation. There have been a couple threads in my memory that stand out, with some really passionate posters. I think they were from New Jersey too. The numbers must be pretty high. How many SGU students per year do you think end up doing their residency in New Jersey?

How are the SGU success stories explained?

SGU is in the back of my mind. It's an option that's on the table for me. What I want to know is how do the people here who are saying "Don't go Caribbean" explain it when people do go down that route, specifically the St. George's route, and then succeed? The way I look at it is if everyone...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Questions for Students of Xavier, Trinity, or AUA

Hey everyone, so I have received offers of admission to Xavier and Trinity for this upcoming semester, as well as AUA for the Fall Semester. Any students out there have experience at these schools? How are they in terms of quality of teaching? I know there are some 'mixed views' about the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[deleted1085158]

I keep hearing about the East coast - SGU affiliation. There have been a couple threads in my memory that stand out, with some really passionate posters. I think they were from New Jersey too. The numbers must be pretty high. How many SGU students per year do you think end up doing their residency in New Jersey?

How are the SGU success stories explained?

SGU is in the back of my mind. It's an option that's on the table for me. What I want to know is how do the people here who are saying "Don't go Caribbean" explain it when people do go down that route, specifically the St. George's route, and then succeed? The way I look at it is if everyone...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Questions for Students of Xavier, Trinity, or AUA

Hey everyone, so I have received offers of admission to Xavier and Trinity for this upcoming semester, as well as AUA for the Fall Semester. Any students out there have experience at these schools? How are they in terms of quality of teaching? I know there are some 'mixed views' about the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I think they are pretty high. I know a lot of people from New Jersey and New York that go to SGU.

 

[suzygroanberg]

I in no way intend to sugar coat anything, just trying to balance out the discussion.

Pretty sure we all accept going into a Carib school that there are some residencies who won't look at us all, most people won't match at amazing programs, and we will have to work harder to get the same treatment as US MD students. That does not mean you cannot work to get just about anything you want out of the experience and still be looked at by top tier programs or at least places you genuinely want to go. A lot of it just requires knowing how to work the system. Hence my volunteering for to assist anyone who may want help.

 

[deleted1085158]

I in no way intend to sugar coat anything, just trying to balance out the discussion.

Pretty sure we all accept going into a Carib school that there are some residencies who won't look at us all, most people won't match at amazing programs, and we will have to work harder to get the same treatment as US MD students. That does not mean you cannot work to get just about anything you want out of the experience and still be looked at by top tier programs or at least places you genuinely want to go. A lot of it just requires knowing how to work the system. Hence my volunteering for to assist anyone who may want help.

I get what you're saying but "top-tier programs" is pushing it.

Can you name some top-tier programs that recent grads have matched into because I looked at the match list and I couldn't find any.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I get what you're saying but "top-tier programs" is pushing it.

Can you name some top-tier programs that recent grads have matched into because I looked at the match list and I couldn't find any.

Forget top tier that’s not happening, solid mid tier programs also almost never look at Carib grads.

 

[deleted1085158]

Forget top tier that’s not happening, solid mid tier programs also almost never look at Carib grads.

Sounds about right.

 

[suzygroanberg]

I interviewed at several top-tier programs and certainly would have done a lot more if I wasn't going into a crazy competitive field. I have friends who interviewed at programs across the board in other specialties. You definitely can see programs of all tiers on the match list, you're welcome to review it yourself (SGU - Residency Appointment Directory). It is a straight up lie that mid-tier programs do not look at Caribbean students lol. I truly don't need you to tell me how my own experiences are false. No one is denying that most people don't end up at great places. My only point is that you absolutely can work to get what you want, and you can be advised on how to do it.

 

[deleted1085158]

I interviewed at several top-tier programs and certainly would have done a lot more if I wasn't going into a crazy competitive field. I have friends who interviewed at programs across the board in other specialties. You definitely can see programs of all tiers on the match list, you're welcome to review it yourself (SGU - Residency Appointment Directory). It is a straight up lie that mid-tier programs do not look at Caribbean students lol. I truly don't need you to tell me how my own experiences are false. No one is denying that most people don't end up at great places. My only point is that you absolutely can work to get what you want, and you can be advised on how to do it.

Well the problem with what you are saying is that I have friends who have also graduated from SGU and they are nowhere as enthusiastic as you are even though they matched.

And I will bet money that you are NOT going into some crazy competitive field. You are just saying that to feel special.

What is your STEP score?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I interviewed at several top-tier programs and certainly would have done a lot more if I wasn't going into a crazy competitive field. I have friends who interviewed at programs across the board in other specialties. You definitely can see programs of all tiers on the match list, you're welcome to review it yourself (SGU - Residency Appointment Directory). It is a straight up lie that mid-tier programs do not look at Caribbean students lol. I truly don't need you to tell me how my own experiences are false. No one is denying that most people don't end up at great places. My only point is that you absolutely can work to get what you want, and you can be advised on how to do it.

Dude none of those programs are “top tier” or even “mid tier” when’s the last time an SGU grad matched at CCF IM or surgery or say even Cincinnati, wake forest, Uf Gainesville, U Arizona Tucson, UT Houston, LSU New Orleans, Oschner, BCM etc for even IM, I can keep this list going lol... even DO’s routinely match at these... and of the decent matches at university prorgams, most of them are dead end preliminary spots....

 

[deleted1085158]

My only point is that you absolutely can work to get what you want, and you can be advised on how to do it.

I want ortho. Advise me please.

 

[suzygroanberg]

I'm also not here to convince you that everyone who went to SGU is happy as a clam. Like I said, the key to doing well is working the system and taking advantage of every possible opportunity. Most people don't or aren't even aware of how to do so.

I would happily take any money you want to bet on my being in a competitive field. I got a 251 on step 1 and 263 on step 2. Again, I would like to preserve my anonymity, so that is the most personal information I am going to give out. It would still be super easy for any of you to figure out who I actually am with that information alone.

Since this seems to be devolving into dog piling and bullying for no reason, I going to disengage from the haters. For a final time, if anyone is actually serious about considering SGU or even another Caribbean school, I am still very happy to talk and give you tips & tricks to get you where you want to be (yes, even if you want to go into ortho). ✌️

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I want ortho. Advise me please.

Extremely tough, the number of ortho matches from Carib schools was in the single digits last year out of like 5000-6000 graduates. This the case for anything ultra competitive. Derm/optho/urology/ent/neurosurgery/rad onc/interventional radiology was all in the single digits or 0 and that’s not just for SGU but for all Caribbean schools combined....

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I'm also not here to convince you that everyone who went to SGU is happy as a clam. Like I said, the key to doing well is working the system and taking advantage of every possible opportunity. Most people don't or aren't even aware of how to do so.

I would happily take any money you want to bet on my being in a competitive field. I got a 251 on step 1 and 263 on step 2. Again, I would like to preserve my anonymity, so that is the most personal information I am going to give out. It would still super easy for any of you to figure out who I actually am with that information alone.

Since this seems to be devolving into dog piling and bullying for no reason, I going to disengage from the haters. For a final time, if anyone is actually serious about serious about considering SGU or even another Caribbean school, I am still very happy to talk and give you tips & tricks to get you where you want to be (yes, even if you want to go into ortho). ✌️

Looking at the data released it was in the single digits for matched for both specialties for Carib grads out of say what 5-6,000 graduating Carib seniors?

 

[deleted1085158]

Extremely tough, the number of ortho matches from Carib schools was in the single digits last year out of like 5000-6000 graduates. This the case for anything ultra competitive. Derm/optho/urology/ent/neurosurgery/rad onc/interventional radiology was all in the single digits or 0 and that’s not just for SGU but for all Caribbean schools combined....

I was being sarcastic. Work with me here. I'm trying to get our friend to explain themselves.

 

[deleted1085158]

I'm also not here to convince you that everyone who went to SGU is happy as a clam. Like I said, the key to doing well is working the system and taking advantage of every possible opportunity. Most people don't or aren't even aware of how to do so.

I would happily take any money you want to bet on my being in a competitive field. I got a 251 on step 1 and 263 on step 2. Again, I would like to preserve my anonymity, so that is the most personal information I am going to give out. It would still be super easy for any of you to figure out who I actually am with that information alone.

Since this seems to be devolving into dog piling and bullying for no reason, I going to disengage from the haters. For a final time, if anyone is actually serious about considering SGU or even another Caribbean school, I am still very happy to talk and give you tips & tricks to get you where you want to be (yes, even if you want to go into ortho). ✌️

How many people started with you during your first term on the island and then how many of those people matched with you?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Well the problem with what you are saying is that I have friends who have also graduated from SGU and they are nowhere as enthusiastic as you are even though they matched.

And I will bet money that you are NOT going into some crazy competitive field. You are just saying that to feel special.

What is your STEP score?

LOL the carib version of something "crazy competitive" is anesthesia, EM, rads, OBGYN or general surgery. So no, probably not an overly competitive field by USMD and DO standards.

 

[Marche med student]

How many people started with you during your first term on the island and then how many of those people matched with you?

jw5001, you and suzygroanberg have quite the back and forth going on. You seem so perfectly, diametrically opposed - as if you are the Yin to her Yang. I'm sure at the end of the day, you're not too dissimilar. At the very least, SGU is getting some free advertising.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

jw5001, you and suzygroanberg have quite the back and forth going on. You seem so perfectly, diametrically opposed - as if you are the Yin to her Yang. I'm sure at the end of the day, you're not too dissimilar. At the very least, SGU is getting some free advertising.

Are you a sgu employee!?

 

[Tètè0717]

Dude none of those programs are “top tier” or even “mid tier” when’s the last time an SGU grad matched at CCF IM or surgery or say even Cincinnati, wake forest, Uf Gainesville, U Arizona Tucson, UT Houston, LSU New Orleans, Oschner, BCM etc for even IM, I can keep this list going lol... even DO’s routinely match at these... and of the decent matches at university prorgams, most of them are dead end preliminary spots....

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Congrats on your match but Yale New Haven prelim(not really Yale main program) and Icahan Roosevelt are not top tier anesthesia match, thats not Icahan's main Anesthesia program.... Even brand new DO programs match their students at better Gas programs. IMG's really got squeezed out this year per the numbers released by NRMP and its only going to get really really bad from here on out..

 

[the argus]

Dude you are really condescending for someone who clearly has a weak understanding of the basic facts.

Congrats on your match but Yale New Haven prelim(not really Yale main program) and Icahan Roosevelt are not top tier anesthesia match, thats not Icahan's main Anesthesia program.... Even brand new DO programs match their students at better Gas programs.

Here are the med school types for the Icahn Morningside-West anesthesia program according to the resident roster posted online.

https://icahn.mssm.edu/files/ISMMS/Assets/Education/Residencies%20Fellowships/2020-2021-Facesheet.pdf

Class of 2021
USMD - 9
DO - 2
US-IMG - 1
unknown -1

Class of 2022
USMD - 8
DO - 2
US-IMG - 1
foreign-IMG - 1
unknown - 1

I stopped looking after that because it became very obvious that what you are claiming is nonsense. This is a program that is mostly USMDs with a few DOs and IMGs mixed in. This is would be considered an excellent match from any DO school, and for you to suggest otherwise is blatantly wrong.

IMG's really got squeezed out this year per the numbers released by NRMP and its only going to get really really bad from here on out..

Totally ... except the numbers released by the NRMP don't suggest that at all.

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2021_Final.pdf

2019 match
total IMG matches (US + foreign) - 7025

2020 match
total IMG matches - 7376

2021 match
total IMG matches - 7508


So if by "IMGs really got squeezed out" you meant actually matched more people than last year, then I totally agree with you.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Dude you are really condescending for someone who clearly has a weak understanding of the basic facts.

Here are the med school types for the Icahn Morningside-West anesthesia program according to the resident roster posted online.

https://icahn.mssm.edu/files/ISMMS/Assets/Education/Residencies%20Fellowships/2020-2021-Facesheet.pdf

Class of 2021
USMD - 9
DO - 2
US-IMG - 1
unknown -1

Class of 2022
USMD - 8
DO - 2
US-IMG - 1
foreign-IMG - 1
unknown - 1

I stopped looking after that because it became very obvious that what you are claiming is nonsense. This is a program that is mostly USMDs with a few DOs and IMGs mixed in. This is would be considered an excellent match from any DO school, and for you to suggest otherwise is blatantly wrong.


Totally ... except the numbers released by the NRMP don't suggest that at all.

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2021_Final.pdf

2019 match
total IMG matches (US + foreign) - 7025

2020 match
total IMG matches - 7376

2021 match
total IMG matches - 7508


So if by "IMGs really got squeezed out" you meant actually matched more people than last year, then I totally agree with you.

Nice try, I am talking specifically for Carribean IMG(US IMG) thats not comparable to rock stars from AIIMS or some big name international school or even UQ-Oschner/Weill cornell qatar, Sackler (they are doing fine). Less US IMG's(ie Carribean) matched than last year despite more applicants and the match rate was 59%.... And yes that Icahan program is a good program and has a good mix of USMD/DO and a few(very few) Caribbean IMG's.. its not something anyone would loose sleep over though TBH. The vast majority of Gas programs are majority USMD/DO with very few IMG's so that breakdown does not mean anything at all....there aren't any Gas programs I am aware of that are 100% IMG, its a restricted field for IMG's as you know.

 

[the argus]

Nice try, I am talking specifically for Carribean IMG(US IMG) thats not comparable to rock stars from AIIMS or some big name international school or even UQ-Oschner/Weill cornell qatar, Sackler (they are doing fine). Less US IMG's(ie Carribean) matched than last year despite more applicants and the match rate was 59%.... And yes that Icahan program is a good program and has a good mix of USMD/DO and a few(very few) Caribbean IMG's.. its not something anyone would loose sleep over though TBH. The vast majority of Gas programs are majority USMD/DO with very few IMG's so that breakdown does not mean anything at all....there aren't any Gas programs I am aware of that are 100% IMG, its a restricted field for IMG's as you know.

You realize that the people matching from UQ-Oschner and Sackler are also considered US-IMGs, right? They are included in the US-IMG data, as are all the US citizens that go to school in India, Ireland, Poland, etc. For you to think you can specifically isolate caribbean grads from the match data is misguided.

And the majority of IMGs that match in the US are not "rock stars" from big name international schools. They are not at Hopkins or Penn, they end up matching at low tier IM programs that are filled by 100% IMGs.

Yes the US-IMG match percentage went down this year by 1.5%. You know what else went down? The DO match percentage, by 1.6%, which the last I checked is more than 1.5%. I assume you are also posting on the DO forums how it's going to "really really bad," right? Probably not, because that would actually require some amount of logic and consistency to your argument.

The actual data shows that >7000 IMGs will start residency this year, just like last year and the year before that. These things do not change that quickly. US medical school enrollment is increasing, but certainly not at a rate of 1000s per year or any number that is going to dramatically change the number of IMGs matching on a year by year basis. And in fact, the actual data shows that more IMGs are starting residency on yearly basis over the past 5 years, not less.

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

You realize that the people matching from UQ-Oschner and Sackler are also considered US-IMGs, right? They are included in the US-IMG data, as are all the US citizens that go to school in India, Ireland, Poland, etc. For you to think you can specifically isolate caribbean grads from the match data is misguided.

And the majority of IMGs that match in the US are not "rock stars" from big name international schools. They are not at Hopkins or Penn, they end up matching at low tier IM programs that are filled by 100% IMGs.

Yes the US-IMG match percentage went down this year by 1.5%. You know what else went down? The DO match percentage, by 1.6%, which the last I checked is more than 1.5%. I assume you are also posting on the DO forums how it's going to "really really bad," right? Probably not, because that would actually require some amount of logic and consistency to your argument.

The actual data shows that >7000 IMGs will start residency this year, just like last year and the year before that. These things do not change that quickly. US medical school enrollment is increasing, but certainly not at a rate of 1000s per year or any number that is going to dramatically change the number of IMGs matching on a year by year basis.

Lol yea those from UQ Ochner prbly pulled that 59% match rate up(news flash those schools have like class sizes of 100-150 so they impact the overall match rate very little) Btw the MD match rate went down as well but more MD’s and DO’s matched by raw numbers unlike US IMG. I don’t have to go on DO forums to say how bad it’s going to be because it isn’t, there is HUGE difference in a match rate of 89% vs a match rate of 59%(INCLUDING those from UQ, sackler) if you isolate just the Carib programs it’s likely much lower. I reckon the match rates for DO’s and MD’s will normalize over the next few years as we go back to in person interviews. Will it for Carib IMG’s???

 

[the argus]

Lol yea those from UQ Ochner prbly pulled that 59% match rate up(news flash those schools have like class sizes of 100-150 so they impact the overall match rate very little) Btw the MD match rate went down as well but more MD’s and DO’s matched by raw numbers unlike US IMG. I don’t have to go on DO forums to say how bad it’s going to be because it isn’t, there is HUGE difference in a match rate of 89% vs a match rate of 59%(INCLUDING those from UQ, sackler) if you isolate just the Carib programs it’s likely much lower. I reckon the match rates for DO’s and MD’s will normalize over the next few years as we go back to in person interviews. Will it for Carib IMG’s???

The point is the match rates are basically the same as last year (and the years before that), yes the US-IMG is lower than USMD/DO but it always has been. For you to suggest that the data from this year's NRMP represents a dramatic change from the status quo is just blatantly wrong and misleading. Period.

The actual data (i.e. the facts) show that the overall number of IMGs starting residency has consistently gone up over the past 5 years, not down, and there is nothing in the NRMP data from this year that suggests this trend won't continue. This is not my opinion, these are the numbers provided by the ACGME.

For you to suggest otherwise means either 1) you are intentionally lying, or 2) you don't know the actual data.

I've said my piece, I'll stop replying to your nonsense now.

 

[Gambino.]

How come almost every thread in this forum gets so derailed from the topic on hand lmao. The OP was asking about SGU charter program to which some of us chimed in on SGU's current status and it somehow becomes a debate on match rates with clear bias from all sides of the argument.

 

[Unconditionalloves]

SGU has been around since the 1970s and will not go anywhere, is also happens to be a major university in the Caribbean, not just a pop up for profit medical school. It will not lose acreditation and will remain the best caribbean option out there. In the end SGU gives chanes to some students that simply cant compete, and those will have a hard time both graduating and matching. Is going to be an uphill battle for all IMG no matter where you go. going to a caribean school only hoping to Match at MGH or UCSF will be unrealistics, but people with good list do match.

 

[8jsi37]

SGU has been around since the 1970s and will not go anywhere, is also happens to be a major university in the Caribbean, not just a pop up for profit medical school. It will not lose acreditation and will remain the best caribbean option out there. In the end SGU gives chanes to some students that simply cant compete, and those will have a hard time both graduating and matching. Is going to be an uphill battle for all IMG no matter where you go. going to a caribean school only hoping to Match at MGH or UCSF will be unrealistics, but people with good list do match.

Nah, every caribbean med schools aren't good LOL. Stop lying to yourself. I mean as of right now, if they don't get improved on time, they "could" risk their students not being able to sit for step and match. Let's be honest here, US MD/DO >>> caribbeans any day. Why do you think there's such a high attrition rate at the big 4? It's because they accept those who don't belong in there and give them false hopes. It's really about transparency and that they shouldnt be accepted unless they've proven themselves otherwise. It's called a for profit for a reason.

On top of that, if you get "weeded" out half way during basic sciences or even 2-3 semesters in, you're like 100k+ in debt and nothing for it. You're better off staying in the US to improve your app, then apply again. And if that doesn't work out, then apply to med schools in other countries that aren't a third world country like UK, Australia, etc. At least you can make a living there and the schools there won't weed you out. Most of them have to follow their country's guidelines while you cant say the same about the big 4.

If you say that it doesn't matter where you go for IMGs, why go to SGU with their current accreditation situation? The other schools in the big 4 have their accreditation already. idk as of right now, there's really no incentive to go to SGU with their accreditation in the air. Why risk 300k+ on something that's not even guaranteed? They were on probation prior to leaving CAAM-HP, so if they were the "best", how do you explain that LOL.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Nah, every caribbean med schools aren't good LOL. Stop lying to yourself. I mean as of right now, if they don't get improved on time, they "could" risk their students not being able to sit for step and match. Let's be honest here, US MD/DO >>> caribbeans any day. Why do you think there's such a high attrition rate at the big 4? It's because they accept those who don't belong in there and give them false hopes. It's really about transparency and that they shouldnt be accepted unless they've proven themselves otherwise. It's called a for profit for a reason.

On top of that, if you get "weeded" out half way during basic sciences or even 2-3 semesters in, you're like 100k+ in debt and nothing for it. You're better off staying in the US to improve your app, then apply again. And if that doesn't work out, then apply to med schools in other countries that aren't a third world country like UK, Australia, etc. At least you can make a living there and the schools there won't weed you out. Most of them have to follow their country's guidelines while you cant say the same about the big 4.

If you say that it doesn't matter where you go for IMGs, why go to SGU with their current accreditation situation? The other schools in the big 4 have their accreditation already. idk as of right now, there's really no incentive to go to SGU with their accreditation in the air. Why risk 300k+ on something that's not even guaranteed? They were on probation prior to leaving CAAM-HP, so if they were the "best", how do you explain that LOL.

This i am rotating with SGU and Ross students on by Sub-I and many of them are applying to 120++ programs to match IM, one kid has 250+ on Steps and is still tragically applying to that many. MD/DO students don't even have to apply to half as many.

 

[8jsi37]

This i am rotating with SGU and Ross students on by Sub-I and many of them are applying to 120++ programs to match IM, one kid has 250+ on Steps and is still tragically applying to that many. MD/DO students don't even have to apply to half as many.

I think with any other country, the situation would still be the same. Canada with their CARMS prioritizes their own medical students over Canadians who went to the caribbeans. This is why we see Canadians matching into US residencies and then eventually transitioning back to Canada.

I agree it does suck, but also on the flip side, if they made it that far without any red flags, you only need one residency to say yes to you. Obv, if you were US MD/DO and made it that far w/o any red flags, it's a much easier process than coming back as an IMG.

I think people are delusional if they think SGU is significantly better than any of the other big 4. To be honest, if you're down in the caribbeans, there's not much of a difference. If you still have to apply to 100+, it doesn't make you any different than other IMGs.