SGU clinical rotations

[Rhabdoviridae]

I have recently transferred to St George's University after completing my second year at a stateside osteopathic medical program and had a question about completing my rotations. I have just begun my first rotation in a large Northeastern city and have been trying to get a straight answer from my colleagues regarding the potential benefit (or disadvantage) that comes from completing rotations at several different hospitals. SGU allows students the choice of staying at one hospital (in some cases) for all clincal rotations, or moving around between different hospitals (sometimes in different states) for rotations. Personally, I would prefer to stay where I am (happens to be my home state), but there seems to be certain hospitals that are better for some rotations than others. I was wondering if program directors take any notice as to whether all of the rotations were completed at the same site and if this influences their decisions in selecting residents. Like I said, I have asked some of my cohorts but got conflicting responses.

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[Princeton Medical Student]

I have recently transferred to St George's University after completing my second year at a stateside osteopathic medical program

B-but. Why...

 

[bashwell]

B-but. Why...

I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is because they were forced to leave (couldn't make it academically) and so went Caribbean.

 

[Terror Billy]

.

 

[12glaucoma34]

I have recently transferred to St George's University after completing my second year at a stateside osteopathic medical program and had a question about completing my rotations. I have just begun my first rotation in a large Northeastern city and have been trying to get a straight answer from my colleagues regarding the potential benefit (or disadvantage) that comes from completing rotations at several different hospitals. SGU allows students the choice of staying at one hospital (in some cases) for all clincal rotations, or moving around between different hospitals (sometimes in different states) for rotations. Personally, I would prefer to stay where I am (happens to be my home state), but there seems to be certain hospitals that are better for some rotations than others. I was wondering if program directors take any notice as to whether all of the rotations were completed at the same site and if this influences their decisions in selecting residents. Like I said, I have asked some of my cohorts but got conflicting responses.

I could be wrong, but my thoughts are completing all rotations at one site gives you the opportunity to make a good impression and hopefully they will accept you to train there. Otherwise, bouncing from site to site, you won't be remembered. I would find it extremely annoying to be switching sites every month or two.

 

[Womb Raider]

Was excited at first, then I realized SGU didn't stand for Stargate Universe. Talk about a fun rotation.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is because they were forced to leave (couldn't make it academically) and so went Caribbean.

From his post history 1) he didn't like the philosophy, 2) didn't like the area he lived in, 3) dad was upset from his choice, and most importantly 4) he can finally be an MD....

 

[YayPudding]

From his post history 1) he didn't like the philosophy, 2) did like the area he lived in, 3) dad was upset from his choice, and most importantly 4) he can finally be an MD....

Oh my word.

 

[Gorne]

Do people not realize that an M.D. from the carrib is garbage? Having DO after your name holds much more prestige than MD from Island University to anyone with half a brain.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yeah you're screwed. Hope you killed Step 1 so you can snag a community IM program. You transferring to a Carib school voluntarily will raise significant questions about your decision making.

 

[W19]

From his post history 1) he didn't like the philosophy, 2) didn't like the area he lived in, 3) dad was upset from his choice, and most importantly 4) he can finally be an MD....

Oh gawd!

 

[PugsAndHugs]

Wow, people are really going out of their way lately to bash Caribbean medical students. It's one thing to try to explain the risks of going to the Caribbean to someone considering it, but it's straight up rude to criticize someone when they are already on that path, working to eventually become a doctor.

It really is cringe-worthy at this point. If you can't help OP with his concern, don't respond at all.

P.S. I'm a US MD student.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Wow, people are really going out of their way lately to bash Caribbean medical students. It's one thing to try to explain the risks of going to the Caribbean to someone considering it, but it's straight up rude to criticize someone when they are already on that path, working to eventually become a doctor.

It really is cringe-worthy at this point. If you can't help OP with his concern, don't respond at all.

P.S. I'm a US MD student.

Why provide support for someone who has broken the "Void if broken" sticker?

 

[raiderette]

Bless the OPs heart.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Wow, people are really going out of their way lately to bash Caribbean medical students. It's one thing to try to explain the risks of going to the Caribbean to someone considering it, but it's straight up rude to criticize someone when they are already on that path, working to eventually become a doctor.

It really is cringe-worthy at this point. If you can't help OP with his concern, don't respond at all.

P.S. I'm a US MD student.

They weren't a Carib student until very recently, as they voluntarily chose to transfer from a US school to the islands. Completely different from someone who went there as a last resort because they really want to be a doctor and are willing to take the Hail Mary chances. They left a path of practically guaranteed success (seeing as they passed boards successfully) and went to a path that will actively hinder them simply for different letters. OP was here not long ago asking if they should do this, sorry but showing up now saying they did exactly what everyone said not to do will elicit the above responses.

 

[kubyx]

.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

They weren't a Carib student until very recently, as they voluntarily chose to transfer from a US school to the islands. Completely different from someone who went there as a last resort because they really want to be a doctor and are willing to take the Hail Mary chances. They left a path of practically guaranteed success (seeing as they passed boards successfully) and went to a path that will actively hinder them simply for different letters. OP was here not long ago asking if they should do this, sorry but showing up now saying they did exactly what everyone said not to do will elicit the above responses.

SDN always vouches for MD>DO>>>Caribbean, but it's really not always that simple. For me, being happy beats everything. He was miserable at the DO school, got heat from his parents, and didn't appreciate the philosophy - so he transferred. Let him live.

And just because SDN preaches that Caribbean grads will not match doesn't mean the same will happen to OP because you don't know his situation. From the sound of his last post, it seems like his daddy has the connections to get him a residency, and if thats the case that's great for him - this solves the problem that most Caribbean graduates have anyway. I don't think he's as stupid as everyone is trying to make him out to be, and even if he is, it's not okay to just berate him when all he's doing is asking a simple question.

One last general thing: You can only try to help someone so much before you realize they are not even listening, and if thats the case let them make their own decisions. If it's a mistake, they will definitely learn from it.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

It's hard to have any respect or advice for someone that is gambling hundreds of thousands and dollars, along with their entire future, for something as vain as 'MD' on their CV.

I see what you're saying, but personally, I respect anyone that chooses to become a doctor and go to medical school. It's exhausting and brutal WHEREVER end up going. Regardless of whether you respect him or not, let's at least have a little compassion for our fellow medical student.

 

[IslandStyle808]

SDN always vouches for MD>DO>>>Caribbean, but it's really not always that simple. For me, being happy beats everything. He was miserable at the DO school, got heat from his parents, and didn't appreciate the philosophy - so he transferred. Let him live.

And just because SDN preaches that Caribbean grads will not match doesn't mean the same will happen to OP because you don't know his situation. From the sound of his last post, it seems like his daddy has the connections to get him a residency, and if thats the case that's great for him - this solves the problem that most Caribbean graduates have anyway. I don't think he's as stupid as everyone is trying to make him out to be, and even if he is, it's not okay to just berate him when all he's doing is asking a simple question.

One last general thing: You can only try to help someone so much before you realize they are not even listening, and if thats the case let them make their own decisions. If it's a mistake, they will definitely learn from it.

Sometimes the best advice is the advice you don't want to hear.

There are many people on here who are not exactly happy with their medical education, myself include. However, we tough it out because it is only a temporary moment in time and once this passes you are done with it. This is called delayed gratification. Heck, I see the same complaints from residents on here who are unhappy about their situation. However, they will be even more unhappy if they quit their program and are not able to get into another one or into an worse one.

He may have found some temporary happiness with this decision, but this choice could potentially lead him to a more permanent unhappiness (ex. such as not matching). He may match, but whose to say if it is into a terrible program that he hates. What then? Should he quit and find another better program that will make him happy. Again look back to my first paragraph.

There will be many points in his education that will make him unhappy but that is temporary, but not being able to match or complete residency again is permanent.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

Sometimes the best advice is the advice you don't want to hear.

I agree with everything you said, I'm a fan of being straight up and always telling people the ugly truth. But my point is that there is no advice being given on this thread, only bashing.

 

[W19]

I agree with everything you said, I'm a fan of being straight up and always telling people the ugly truth. But my point is that there is no advice being given on this thread, only bashing.

Bashing (i.e tough love) is what we call 'advice' in SDN...

 

[IslandStyle808]

I agree with everything you said, I'm a fan of being straight up and always telling people the ugly truth. But my point is that there is no advice being given on this thread, only bashing.

I understand what you mean.

To answer his question, its pretty much meaningless to figure out what core rotations are going to give the best impression. If SGU is working under a lottery system, he may get neither a core site near his home or a site where good rotations are (the result of being green book compliant). Unless he rotates with a specific program he wants to apply to, it won't matter where he does his rotations. All that matter is that he is doing well on his rotations and would impress on his audition rotations (these are the rotations residency directors at specific program care about). Overall it doesn't matter where does is core rotations at, it all about how good his clinical education is.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

Caribbean grads should be forced to use the initials CMD simply for the prestige hunting (or shall I say poaching) to finally end. Not saying this was the factor with OP, but it sounds like a big reason for his father.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Yeah you're screwed. Hope you killed Step 1 so you can snag a community IM program. You transferring to a Carib school voluntarily will raise significant questions about your decision making.

Yeah I "killed" both the COMLEX and the USMLE (90+ percentile for both) in June otherwise I wouldn't have made the switch. I'm not really too concerned about matching either as it is essentially impossible not to match (based on prior year statistics) into my desired field with my step score from this school. Glad to see you feel otherwise though.........if someone could please answer my original question instead of stalking my post history and derailing the thread (like SDN always seems to do best), that would be nice.

 

[PrettyLadyDoc24]

Yeah I "killed" both the COMLEX and the USMLE in June otherwise I wouldn't have made the switch. I'm not really too concerned about matching either as it is essentially impossible not to match (based on prior year statistics) into my desired field with my step score from this school. Glad to see you feel otherwise though.........if someone could please answer my original question instead of stalking my post history and derailing the thread (like SDN always seems to do best), that would be nice.

Referring to your original question, working at different hospitals in clinical rotations is not a big deal to a residency committee. For me it was a blessing because I got to see different departments in my desired field (Pathology) and not every place on our rotation site list had Path residencies. However I budgeted accordingly, traveled within the tristate area, and got a residency position that I ranked number 1. Residency programs are more interested in your grades on rotation, not the hospital in which you incurred such grade.

Don't listen to these inflammatory fools. It's in a medical student's nature to be scared of the unknown and regretful of the path they didn't choose.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Yeah I "killed" both the COMLEX and the USMLE (90+ percentile for both) in June otherwise I wouldn't have made the switch. I'm not really too concerned about matching either as it is essentially impossible not to match (based on prior year statistics) into my desired field with my step score from this school. Glad to see you feel otherwise though.........if someone could please answer my original question instead of stalking my post history and derailing the thread (like SDN always seems to do best), that would be nice.

Tbh he brings up a pretty good point of decision making. I am sure program directors will raise their brows slightly at that at the least. Well good luck with your dumb as **** decision either way lmao.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Tbh he brings up a pretty good point of decision making. I am sure program directors will raise their brows slightly at that at the least. Well good luck with your dumb as **** decision either way lmao.

One really shouldn't throw stones who himself lives in a glass house.........,but anyway, if that comes up I'll be happy to explain why I left since I had good reasons to do so. So why don't you see if you can make it through your premed classes and actually apply to medical school first before you give out your unqualified opinions on a forum that is meant for actual medical students

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

One really shouldn't throw stones who himself lives in a glass house.........,but anyway, if that comes up I'll be happy to explain why I left since I had good reasons to do so. So why don't you see if you can make it through your premed classes and actually apply to medical school first before you give out your unqualified opinions on a forum that is meant for actual medical students

I wouldnt really need to make it through much to get into SGU . I am just genuinely concerned and somewhat curious as to why you made the decision.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

I wouldnt really need to make it through much to get into SGU . I am just genuinely concerned and somewhat curious as to why you made the decision.

I want to keep this thread on topic. PM me if you want to know more

 

[W19]

I wouldnt really need to make it through much to get into SGU . I am just genuinely concerned and somewhat curious as to why you made the decision.

It's obvious!

John Shalikashvili M.D.

instead of

John Shalikashvili D.O.

 

[grapefruit17]

imo, the do phillosophy is roughly equivalent to the McDonald's philosophy of we love to see you smile.

But both have the same goal: expand and profit

But of course do usually the better options. In some strange cases tho I interviewed at a few places that seemed to prefer Carib over dos.

But yea I don't judge you op. Dont know your circumstances

 

[grapefruit17]

I don't think it matters where you do your rotations as long as it's USA. Only exception is dojng most of your rotations at somewhere you want to match

 

[IsWhat]

OP, you might have better luck asking your school about the rotations, etc. Or even better would be to ask your program if anyone has actually done this before (successfully) and maybe contact them directly and emmulate what they did.

 

[Stagg737]

SDN always vouches for MD>DO>>>Caribbean, but it's really not always that simple. For me, being happy beats everything. He was miserable at the DO school, got heat from his parents, and didn't appreciate the philosophy - so he transferred. Let him live.

And just because SDN preaches that Caribbean grads will not match doesn't mean the same will happen to OP because you don't know his situation. From the sound of his last post, it seems like his daddy has the connections to get him a residency, and if thats the case that's great for him - this solves the problem that most Caribbean graduates have anyway. I don't think he's as stupid as everyone is trying to make him out to be, and even if he is, it's not okay to just berate him when all he's doing is asking a simple question.

One last general thing: You can only try to help someone so much before you realize they are not even listening, and if thats the case let them make their own decisions. If it's a mistake, they will definitely learn from it.

There are a few things behind/beyond the transfer from DO to IMG that make me seriously question OP as an applicant. The biggest being OP seems to allow his parents to dictate his life too much. If a major reason for transferring schools was to please his parents (because they only want him to be an MD) and that came out, it would be difficult for me to look past that come match time even if he did have other valid reasons. His lack of independence and inability to cut the cord would make him someone I personally wouldn't want to work with. On top of that, if he truly felt the need to become an MD over a DO regardless of where he'd have to transfer, it tells me that prestige is a higher priority to him than his actual education which is another big red flag imo.

I'm not saying OP didn't have his reasons for transferring or even that they weren't valid. However, even with stellar board scores and class rank, he's made some decisions that make his judgment highly questionable. Instead of being a strong applicant from a DO school with little to prove, he's now a candidate with strong scores who has to prove his judgment isn't questionable. He'll also have a stigma that's even bigger to a lot of residency programs than just being a DO (and also potentially have to deal with an even worse clinical education than the supposedly inferior DO clinical experience).

 

[Gorne]

I will "bash" carribbean schools and those who graduate from there until something is done to stop what they are doing.

I have seen first hand that they will literally accept anything with a pulse and a wallet, slap an MD on them if they can memorize FA with 2 years to do it, and then call themselves our "peers".

 

[augeremt]

To go back to the original question, there are pros and cons to doing your rotations at one site vs. being spread across different hospitals. This is from the perspective of someone who recently finished 3rd year.

Pros for single site:
- Getting to know one system well. Staying at one site allows you to not have to learn a new hospital system every time you switch rotations. The little things like knowing where the supply closet is or who to ask for something can make a difference in your ability to be helpful to the team, which is a large part of your evals (whether it's stated explicitly or not). I'm doing aways right now and having to learn to navigate a new hospital monthly while trying to impress people is incredibly frustrating and slows me down significantly. As soon as I get the hang of something, I move on to the next place.

- Making connections. You will run into or consult the same people throughout the year as you go through rotations, which makes it easier to maintain relationships and get more personal letters of rec when the time comes for that. Also, a resident or attending you click with may hook you up with research or a another attending in your desired field of interest. This would be harder if you're switching hospitals and/or states every rotation.

- Minimal travel. You won't have to worry about moving, etc. That's another headache you wouldn't have to deal with.

Pros for multiple sites:
- Some rotations are stronger at different hospitals. If you get lucky and end up at the strongest rotations at the strongest sites, you could have a baller third year. But you could also be shafted with the worst rotations at the worst sites. Do you have any control over this?

- You're exposed to multiple hospital systems. It's interesting to see how everyone else does things instead of living in your home institution bubble. You also get a better idea of what you want in your residency program when it comes time to narrow down your application list. Central hospital v. satellite clinics? Night float v. 24-hour call? You'll get a better idea of things like this when you experience them first-hand.

Back to another part of your original question about program directors...
From what I've seen on my transcript (including aways), the locations of my rotations are not listed officially on the transcript so program directors have no way of knowing where I did all my clinicals. Your letters of rec will give it away but I don't think they care so much where you rotated but rather who wrote your letter. The name matters more than the location.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I will "bash" carribbean schools and those who graduate from there until something is done to stop what they are doing.

I have seen first hand that they will literally accept anything with a pulse and a wallet, slap an MD on them if they can memorize FA with 2 years to do it, and then call themselves our "peers".

I'd love to see you bash an attending who graduated from a Caribbean school to their face.

Seriously, where do you, a medical student with little perspective and real-world clinical experience, get off talking like this? Yes, caribbean medical schools are moneymaking scams but that doesn't mean you get to be disrespectful to people who worked hard, took the same boards as you, matched, did residencies and are practicing medicine. And I say this as someone who probably went to a better medical school than you did.

 

[Morsetlis]

Oh my the Caribbean bashing in this thread...

Keep it on topic people.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

A DO student shouldn't really be bashing SGU anyway. Prior to the DO expansion which increased more than full class size equivalent of SGU, guess where those students went because their DO spots weren't there?

 

[bigindian4891]

A DO student shouldn't really be bashing SGU anyway. Prior to the DO expansion which increased more than full class size equivalent of SGU, guess where those students went because their DO spots weren't there?

...here we go again

 

[DrfluffyMD]

...here we go again

Is there a factual error with my message?

 

[kubyx]

.

 

[IslandStyle808]

A DO student shouldn't really be bashing SGU anyway. Prior to the DO expansion which increased more than full class size equivalent of SGU, guess where those students went because their DO spots weren't there?

If this were a person who either exhausted all his US MD and DO options or just didn't realize about going DO, I am understanding of this. However, this person went from a school that would give him a better matching potential to a school with a worse matching potential by choice. Think of it this way, if a person went MD to DO for a trivial reason such as "I hate the MD philosophy" wouldn't you also be questioning his choice?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Considering it's a completely baseless assumption designed to incite greater divide between MDs and DOs, I would say so. You have no idea what constitutes the applicants of carrib schools. I would actually argue that carrib students are more often composed of people who could not get into either MD or DO (which doesn't just let anyone in who has a pulse, as some people seem to think), or simply feel 'above' being a DO and just want the MD credentials, but your comment leads to the suggestion that DO ~~ carrib. Even still, that's just my guess, just like yours is, so using the words 'factual' in your retort is pretty off base.

There is a body of students applying to medical school. Some of them couldn't get into a USMD school so they go to a different place to fullfill their dream. It used to be SGU and such, until DO expansion happened. People who couldn't get into USMD schools overwhelmingly make up the student bodies of DO and Caribbean schools.

This has nothing to do with division or "talking down" DOs. Some of my coresidents are DOs and I respect them the most. The person who scored highest on radiology board this year across the whole county is a DO.

However, I find it ironic that people are talking down students from SGU. I worked with those people too, and they are very compatitble clinicians. The school maybe predatory, but I don't see why we should talk down those students.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

If this were a person who either exhausted all his US MD and DO options or just didn't realize about going DO, I am understanding of this. However, this person went from a school that would give him a better matching potential to a school with a worse matching potential by choice. Think of it this way, if a person went MD to DO for a trivial reason such as "I hate the MD philosophy" wouldn't you also be questioning his choice?

I would, and I have, questioned people who made that choice. However, I am just trying to state that newer DO schools and SGU maybe receuiting from the same population, because DO expansion sure isn't taking USMD students away.

 

[kubyx]

.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I would, and I have, questioned people who made that choice. However, I am just trying to state that newer DO schools and SGU maybe receuiting from the same population, because DO expansion sure isn't taking USMD students away.

Yet MD expansion are helping applicants get into an MD school, when they would have had to go DO. Don't forget there are also DO schools with GPAs and MCATs that rival a few MD schools. So the population in the upper echelon of DOs have similar stats to MD students. I get where your coming from, but most of us aren't bewildered by the fact he went to the Caribbean. We are bewildered by the fact he went from an osteopathic school to a Caribbean school.

 

[IsWhat]

There is a body of students applying to medical school. Some of them couldn't get into a USMD school so they go to a different place to fullfill their dream. It used to be SGU and such, until DO expansion happened. People who couldn't get into USMD schools overwhelmingly make up the student bodies of DO and Caribbean schools.

This has nothing to do with division or "talking down" DOs. Some of my coresidents are DOs and I respect them the most. The person who scored highest on radiology board this year across the whole county is a DO.

However, I find it ironic that people are talking down students from SGU. I worked with those people too, and they are very compatitble clinicians. The school maybe predatory, but I don't see why we should talk down those students.

US DO classes are chalk-full of career changers and people who reinvented themselves from a poor academic past. Caribbean MD doesn't require reinvention so a 2.6 gpa with additional application deficits can just walk into a Caribbean medical school. The differences are pretty huge and PDs know this.

I liken OPs scenario to climbing a mountain. Many US MD programs will just fly you to the top on a helicopter, while US DO is like climbing the mountain comfortably with equipment and a guide. Caribbean is like free-climbing the mountain - you may make it up, but one slip and you're done.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There is a body of students applying to medical school. Some of them couldn't get into a USMD school so they go to a different place to fullfill their dream. It used to be SGU and such, until DO expansion happened. People who couldn't get into USMD schools overwhelmingly make up the student bodies of DO and Caribbean schools.

This has nothing to do with division or "talking down" DOs. Some of my coresidents are DOs and I respect them the most. The person who scored highest on radiology board this year across the whole county is a DO.

However, I find it ironic that people are talking down students from SGU. I worked with those people too, and they are very compatitble clinicians. The school maybe predatory, but I don't see why we should talk down those students.

I would, and I have, questioned people who made that choice. However, I am just trying to state that newer DO schools and SGU maybe receuiting from the same population, because DO expansion sure isn't taking USMD students away.

I agree, but this has nothing to do with this particular case. Electively choosing to transfer to the Carib from a DO school, especially after "killing" boards as OP claims, is just downright stupid. I have no animosity towards the Carib students themselves. Those that make it out earn their stripes wholeheartedly.

 

[Gorne]

I'd love to see you bash an attending who graduated from a Caribbean school to their face.

Seriously, where do you, a medical student with little perspective and real-world clinical experience, get off talking like this? Yes, caribbean medical schools are moneymaking scams but that doesn't mean you get to be disrespectful to people who worked hard, took the same boards as you, matched, did residencies and are practicing medicine. And I say this as someone who probably went to a better medical school than you did.

u mad bro? the bolded statement throws out your entire argument. and I say this as someone who knows that it doesn't matter what school you go to, they are all clearly capable of accepting and cranking out those of questionable merit.