SGU clinical rotations

[Lexdiamondz]

u mad bro? the bolded statement throws out your entire argument. and I say this as someone who knows that it doesn't matter what school you go to, they are all clearly capable of accepting and cranking out those of questionable merit.

Not mad at all, just curious why someone with cripplingly little perspective needs to bash other people's education when you haven't accomplished anything of note to date.

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[Jabbed]

You know who's really the worst though?

Nazis.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Not mad at all, just curious why someone with cripplingly little perspective needs to bash other people's education when you haven't accomplished anything of note to date.

I find it ironic too how the most aggressive people on this forum tend to be undergrad med student wannabes who have yet to do anything beyond declare their interests in pursuing medicine.

 

[Gorne]

Not mad at all, just curious why someone with cripplingly little perspective needs to bash other people's education when you haven't accomplished anything of note to date.

Clearly my post hit a little close to home for you. You have no idea my accomplishments or my perspective, what I do know is you clearly have no perspective on much of anything at all. I can only imagine if my view of the Caribbean medical education system (a commonly held view by most residency directors btw) brings this out in you over the internet, how glaring your inferiority complex must be in real life.

I find it ironic too how the most aggressive people on this forum tend to be undergrad med student wannabes who have yet to do anything beyond declare their interests in pursuing medicine.

Such hostility! Use that keyboard, go on! Get it all out. Then go back to staring at the floor when you walk outside.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Clearly my post hit a little close to home for you. You have no idea my accomplishments or my perspective, what I do know is you clearly have no perspective on much of anything at all. I can only imagine if my view of the Caribbean medical education system (a commonly held view by most residency directors btw) brings this out in you over the internet, how glaring your inferiority complex must be in real life.



Such hostility! Use that keyboard, go on! Get it all out. Then go back to staring at the floor when you walk outside.

It's interesting how much hositlity you can bring out in some people with a simple statements. I have certainly done so, and some of those statements sadly do not merit a response.

I do think however, that the formerly ACGME PDs largely fall into two camps. The PD who share your views about the Caribbean grads usually share similar views about DOs and usually just match USMD.

Then there are PDs who match based on merits like step score or LOR regardless where people came from.

It's a shame really, because DO schools typically have better training.

 

[Gorne]

It's interesting how much hositlity you can bring out in some people with a simple statements. I have certainly done so, and some of those statements sadly do not merit a response.

I do think however, that the formerly ACGME PDs largely fall into two camps. The PD who share your views about the Caribbean grads usually share similar views about DOs and usually just match USMD.

Then there are PDs who match based on merits like step score or LOR regardless where people came from.

It's a shame really, because DO schools typically have better training.

Comparing DO schools with Caribbean MD is entirely unfair. DO's have real curriculums. I personally know students who have matriculated and graduated at several of the upper tier Caribbean schools, one of which is an SMP flunk out who if I remember correctly, couldn't put together the concept of how nutrition relates to glucose, ATP, and oxphos, at the END of a biochem course. Another friend of mine (who is an example of the kind of student the Carib should technically be for, one who is capable but had circumstances that hindered competitiveness) complains about how course directors use FA as the recommended textbook.

how anyone can defend a system designed to feed off the dreams of the niave is beyond me.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Comparing DO schools with Caribbean MD is entirely unfair. DO's have real curriculums. I personally know students who have matriculated and graduated at several of the upper tier Caribbean schools, one of which is an SMP flunk out who if I remember correctly, couldn't put together the concept of how nutrition relates to glucose, ATP, and oxphos, at the END of a biochem course. Another friend of mine (who is an example of the kind of student the Carib should technically be for, one who is capable but had circumstances that hindered competitiveness) complains about how course directors use FA as the recommended textbook.

how anyone can defend a system designed to feed off the dreams of the niave is beyond me.

I hope my post didn't hit too close to home either

All I can say is that I worked with folks from SGU and older DO schools and they report similar learning experiences. This is a n = 10 thing. I do help select candidates and to us a DO and SGU grad aren't necessarily all that different if they both have adequate rotation sites.

I don't know which stage of training you are in, but those people (SGU and DO grads) are people I worked with clinically during residency and they were all clinically excellent.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

I have spent 2 years learning at a DO school that was an absolute joke. I have only spent a few weeks under a Caribbean program, but so far, my learning experience is better than anything I could have ever hoped for in my prior osteopathic program. So why don't you save your unqualified and unverified opinions for somewhere else. You clearly do not know what you are talking about

 

[Gorne]

I hope my post didn't hit too close to home either

All I can say is that I worked with folks from SGU and older DO schools and they report similar learning experiences. This is a n = 10 thing. I do help select candidates and to us a DO and SGU grad aren't necessarily all that different if they both have adequate rotation sites.

I don't know which stage of training you are in, but those people (SGU and DO grads) are people I worked with clinically during residency and they were all clinically excellent.

I'm glad, at least for the sake of the patients, that these programs can and do train excellent physicians.

I have spent 2 years learning at a DO school that was an absolute joke. I have only spent a few weeks under a Caribbean program, but so far, my learning experience is better than anything I could have ever hoped for in my prior osteopathic program. So why don't you save your unqualified and unverified opinions for somewhere else. You clearly do not know what you are talking about

lol

 

[Stagg737]

It's interesting how much hositlity you can bring out in some people with a simple statements. I have certainly done so, and some of those statements sadly do not merit a response.

I do think however, that the formerly ACGME PDs largely fall into two camps. The PD who share your views about the Caribbean grads usually share similar views about DOs and usually just match USMD.

Then there are PDs who match based on merits like step score or LOR regardless where people came from.

It's a shame really, because DO schools typically have better training.

The only problem with this is that most Caribbean schools' pre-clinical education is basically a 2-year boards prep and doesn't focus on what a true medical education should. I was recently talking to one of my attendings about this subject who graduated from Ross around 2005 and has continued mentoring students from that school. He said that if you look at board scores from Caribbean schools many of their averages are actually above the national average. The problem with that is that a huge number of Carib students are expelled before boards time rolls around and at some schools you have to pass a the practice test before you're even allowed to take it. I have friends that went Carib and they say some students are forced to take an extra semester or even year as a "study year" before the school even allows them to take Step 1. So if one person hits a 230 and went to a US school, I don't think that's equal to someone who went to a Caribbean school, had what was basically 2 years of boards prep, and then may have even been given extra months to years to prepare for boards.

I'll add that some US schools (apparently OPs) also have poor curriculum, but those seem to be the exception as opposed to the Caribbean where it seems to be the norm. Outside of that, I completely agree about the LoR and evaluating applicants based on their merit as an overall applicant (and not just based on letters), I just think one has to be careful what metrics they are using to do so.

 

[drcrispmd]

SGU rarely takes transfers and only into 2nd year. So I highly doubt the OP transferred into year 3.


Also, I would caution against bashing Caribbean grads as a med student in front of attendings. This does not look good for you.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have spent 2 years learning at a DO school that was an absolute joke. I have only spent a few weeks under a Caribbean program, but so far, my learning experience is better than anything I could have ever hoped for in my prior osteopathic program. So why don't you save your unqualified and unverified opinions for somewhere else. You clearly do not know what you are talking about

Lol, its August. You are still deciding on where to do rotations so in reality you have no clue what your "learning experiences" are like.... also looking on SGUs website it doesn't even look like they take transfers into 3rd year. So why are you lying?

Quoted from their website, "and only for the beginning of the second year of the medical program"

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Lol, its August. You are still deciding on where to do rotations so in reality you have no clue what your "learning experiences" are like.... also looking on SGUs website it doesn't even look like they take transfers into 3rd year. So why are you lying?

Quoted from their website, "and only for the beginning of the second year of the medical program"

Orientation was earlier in the month (different sites start at different times), as you get assigned after receiving a passing step score. I was told that it is unusual that they take students into the third year and that it requires more requirements than into preclinical years (i.e. contingent on achieving a minimum step score and an approval from the dean of my prior medical school amongst other things).

 

[Gorne]

Orientation was earlier in the month (different sites start at different times), as you get assigned after receiving a passing step score. I was told that it is unusual that they take students into the third year and that it requires more requirements than into preclinical years (i.e. contingent on achieving a minimum step score and an approval from the dean of my prior medical school amongst other things).

It requires a credit card and a pulse. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

It requires a credit card and a pulse. Don't kid yourself.

My acceptance was contingent on me scoring at least a 220 on the USMLE Step 1, so no, don't kid yourself.

 

[863168]

I feel bad for the Caribbean students who genuinely believe that the Caribbean has given them a second chance when they just suffer from academic problems. The fact that Ross University offered no statements and maintained radio silence over the Henry Bello Bronx shooting shows you how concerned they are about their reputation. This is not an issue of merely medical incompetence. When any company creates a business model solely for profit, the underlying product is going to suffer from the lack of attention made to quality in order to save money from skimming off the edges. And when the made in Caribbean product endangers the hospital and your fellow healthcare workers, then you are doing yourself a disservice by associating with those institutions.

A serious brush with the law occurred in New York City in 2004, when he was arrested and charged with sex abuse and unlawful imprisonment. A 23-year-old woman told the police that he grabbed her on Bleecker Street in Manhattan, and tried to penetrate her through her underwear. Court records revealed that Dr. Bello pleaded guilty to unlawful imprisonment in the second degree, a misdemeanor, and was sentenced to community service.

The felony sexual abuse charge was dropped, which may explain why the episode was not unearthed during a criminal-background check conducted by Bronx-Lebanon. “There was no record of any conviction for sexual abuse,” said Errol C. Schneer, a hospital spokesman.

Surely, a career high point for Dr. Bello was his graduation in 2010 from the Ross University School of Medicine in Dominica, an island in the Caribbean — despite its reputation as a fallback for students who cannot earn admission to medical schools in the United States. But there were troubling signs for Dr. Bello before that.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

I feel bad for the Caribbean students who genuinely believe that the Caribbean has given them a second chance when they just suffer from academic problems. The fact that Ross University offered no statements and maintained radio silence over the Henry Bello Bronx shooting shows you how concerned they are about their reputation. This is not an issue of merely medical incompetence. When any company creates a business model solely for profit, the underlying product is going to suffer from the lack of attention made to quality in order to save money from skimming off the edges. And when the made in Caribbean product endangers the hospital and your fellow healthcare workers, then you are doing yourself a disservice by associating with those institutions.

So based on your logic, you are really implying that the fact that this man went crazy and shot up a hospital had more to do with where he did his training as opposed to whatever mental conditions he was suffering from? LMAO

 

[863168]

So based on your logic, the fact that this man when crazy and shot up a hospital had more to do with where he did his training as opposed to whatever mental conditions he was suffering from? LMAO

No. Not at all. The entire post was highlighting how academic issues alone shouldn't lead a student to the Caribbean. In fact, I think that those students are being taken advantage of because the Caribbean is willing to accept students with misdemeanors and a prior history of law breaking behavior if they can profit from their enrollment. And I don't know if @Gorne was referring to this when he mentioned that he knows people with a credit card and a pulse, but I know they accepted a student who sent a couple to the hospital and refused to apologize for it. And to me, that disgusts me as a human being. Maybe it's just a philosophical difference that you agree with more than the D.O. school. I'm perhaps looking at education in too much of a holistic environment.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I think we need to remember that while we may not like certain model of schooling or its graduates, we shouldn't indiscriminately attack its graduates.

 

[863168]

I think we need to remember that while we may not like certain model of schooling or its graduates, we shouldn't indiscriminately attack its graduates.

I'm sorry. Let us all have a moment of silence for Doctor Henry Bello.

 

[Gorne]

So based on your logic, you are really implying that the fact that this man went crazy and shot up a hospital had more to do with where he did his training as opposed to whatever mental conditions he was suffering from? LMAO

Look, my virus friend. You need to stop getting so worked up about how people view your school and your credentials and just work hard and be one of those that makes it out and becomes a good doctor. You showed horrible judgment in switching from a state-side school to a carrib for nothing other than the MD title and residencies and every colleague you ever mention that to will think less of you for it. But! What you can do is stop trying to convince others (moreso yourself m I right?) you made the right decision and go out and change the stigma! Its you and those two letters after your name against the world!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Orientation was earlier in the month (different sites start at different times), as you get assigned after receiving a passing step score. I was told that it is unusual that they take students into the third year and that it requires more requirements than into preclinical years (i.e. contingent on achieving a minimum step score and an approval from the dean of my prior medical school amongst other things).

So no you haven't actually experienced much.... also I am still very skeptical they took a transfer into a year they explicitly say they won't take transfers.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

every colleague you ever mention that to will think less of you for it.

Actually not everyone. Most people won't care really. I certainly won't care if an applicant comes from a DO school vs caribean school when they both have 260.

 

[Gorne]

Actually not everyone. Most people won't care really. I certainly won't care if an applicant comes from a DO school vs caribean school when they both have 260.

it's not necessarily the graduating Caribbean, it's the switching from state-side to carib for no other reason other than the MD that's just so especially cringe-worthy

 

[libertyyne]

it's not necessarily the graduating Caribbean, it's the switching from state-side to carib for no other reason other than the MD that's just so especially cringe-worthy

There is still bias in some surgical sub-specialties not matching DO's and giving preference to US-IMG over DOs. So if that is OPs game plan. That would make it less letter chasing and more setting oneself up to go to one of those programs.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

it's not necessarily the graduating Caribbean, it's the switching from state-side to carib for no other reason other than the MD that's just so especially cringe-worthy

If you read my first post on this forum (which I assume you have), you would see that obtaining the MD title was only part of the reason why I decided to make the switch. I did not like the specific program I was in and was very unhappy there from the beginning. In addition, personal responsibilities back home made it difficult for me to live across the country for these past two years.

 

[nycupnow]

I will "bash" carribbean schools and those who graduate from there until something is done to stop what they are doing.

I have seen first hand that they will literally accept anything with a pulse and a wallet, slap an MD on them if they can memorize FA with 2 years to do it, and then call themselves our "peers".

It's so unfortunate to hear a medical student talk like this about his peers.

There are a quite a few problems with your assertion here.

First, every doctor with an MD after their name who is eligible to practice in the US has passed the same licensing exams as USMDs. In fact, that is the exact purpose of having standardized licensing examinations - it ensures that everyone who passes them has acceptable and comparable competency (I state the obvious here because you seem oblivious to it). Of course I am not referring to common wealth or Indian MDs who have challenged speciality board exams after practicing in their home countries - but even then the requirement for such MDs to sit for USMLE examinations (or FLEX examinations, depending on how long ago we're talking about) is ALWAYS waived because the ACGME and state licencing boards deem that such MDs have already attained an equivalent level of competence. Caribbean schools - as part of their US accreditation requirements - only award students an MD after they have - among completing all other graduation requirements - passed Step 1 and both parts of Step 2. So your claim that caribbean schools "slap an MD" on "anyone with a wallet" is just plain wrong; everyone who is awarded that degree has earned it. There is just no sense in arguing otherwise.

(And it should be noted that caribbean students are required to submit Step 2 results in order to be eligible to apply to ANY speciality through the NRMP - something not always required of US medical students).

Secondly, in some of your previous misinformed (or ignorant) posts, you seem to question the quality of international MDs. The reason I say you are misinformed or ignorant is that the evidence says otherwise. (Evidence? Oh you know; the same type of evidence that all MDs learn to apply to clinical situations... makes me wonder if they taught evidenced-based-practice properly in your US school) . If you can stop insufflating smoke up your own anus for long enough I would encourage you to take a look through this recent BMJ article:
http://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/356/bmj.j273.full.pdf

There are several other articles out there that have been published in recent years that echo these findings. Of course your problem is with "Caribbean MD's" specifically however, if you look at match data (not that you have to as a US med student because you'll be awarded interviews just by virtue of country in which you studied basic sciences) you'd know that the majority of "independent" applicants in the NRMP main match are US IMGs - the majority of those being US Caribbean students. So the article I just shared with you is indeed relevant to this discussion. While the difference exposed by this articles is significant, it's admittedly not impressively large. So the best we could do in terms of generalization here is to say that there probably isn't much of a clinically relevant difference between US and Internationally educated internists practicing in the US.

Further to that, and as an American citizen, I find your commentary un-American and as a future doctor I question your commitment to US patients. One of the best things about the US is that we base personal advancement on merit - not on extraneous metrics (like someone's country of origin, or where they were educated). In Canada, for example, IMGs (regardless of their nationality - so this applies to Canadian IMGs) can NOT apply to the same residency positions as Canadian or US MDs. If we assume that caribbean IMGs have lower undergrad GPAs and MCAT scores than their Canadian or US colleagues and we know that there is currently no data out there that suggest that these metrics are predictive of future healthcare outcomes what this effectively does is it denies the Canadian healthcare system the opportunity to access the best physicians for a given job (i.e. specialty). This DOESN'T currently happen in the US because BOTH IMGs and US Seniors apply to the same residency positions. I'm personally thankful that we're a country who values medical students' proven abilities over their pedigrees.

Also, in some posts in this thread some have asserted that US students go to the caribbean because they can't don't get into US schools. Well, (in the majority of cases) you're exactly correct. But so what? I can't think of a more brain-dead point to make. So you say you want to stop what Caribbean students are doing? Well, this is EXACTLY what Caribbean students are doing: The fact of the matter is that the US is going to be short 20-30K physicians within the next 2 decades and no matter how far you burry your head in the sand these Caribbean schools that you seem to have so such a disdain for are fulfilling a US necessity - your mother and father, in fact, are VERY likely to be cared for at some point near the end of their lives by an MD who was educated at a Caribbean school - which is great because they're likely to experience a better outcome than if they happen to be seen by a USMD (You should let this last point sink in for a while before you post any knee jerk response to my post). What's also funny about this point is that if US schools and the US government where to pull their socks up and expand existing US med schools to the sizes that they ought to be, GUESS WHO would then be able attend a US MD school? That's right, all those students going to the caribbean would be at US schools.

(However, if you're talking about Canadian students - due to relatively more intense competition in Canada, many decide on the Caribbean because the average med student there goes through 3 rounds of med school applications before being accepted - many people don't have 3 years to waste. A good number of Canadian students end up practicing in the US after attending Caribbean MD schools and many have undergrad GPAs and MCAT scores that would blow most US students out of the water - could you imagine if Canadian citizens could access Title 4 funding - you might not have got into your US med school! Also, please note that Canadian students probably make up ~20% of Caribbean medical schools; your attack on Caribbean students is thus even further misplaced).

Take a second and think about what you're saying, before you share your ignorant, close-minded views.

 

[Stagg737]

My acceptance was contingent on me scoring at least a 220 on the USMLE Step 1, so no, don't kid yourself.

A 220 would put you at the 30th percentile, so I wouldn't really say their standards for board scores are all that high...

I think we need to remember that while we may not like certain model of schooling or its graduates, we shouldn't indiscriminately attack its graduates.

I should clarify since I've been making some arguments that may come across as inflammatory towards non-US MD/DO students recently. When I start working with other students or residents I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume they have a certain level of competency regardless of where they attend(ed) medical school. I don't go in thinking that someone is going to be less of a student/physician based on where they've trained before and I reserve any kind of personal judgment of their aptitude until I've worked with them for a while. So for me, I assume everyone (at the same stage of training) is at least competent until they prove otherwise, which IMGs have fallen into that category in an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount compared to US-trained medical students.

SGU rarely takes transfers and only into 2nd year. So I highly doubt the OP transferred into year 3.

Also, I would caution against bashing Caribbean grads as a med student in front of attendings. This does not look good for you.

I'd go a step farther and say not to bash anyone as a med student or even politely bring up their short-comings in front of attendings (unless they're putting patients at harm). The students who aren't up to snuff make it obvious enough on their own and I'm sure attendings don't need someone else to point that out. Bashing other students just makes oneself look like a tool and does nothing to help those students who are lacking become any better.

 

[gyngyn]

This would be a good time to remember that a civil discussion does not include vulgar language or epithets.
Do your best to get back on topic, please.

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

I hope my post didn't hit too close to home either

All I can say is that I worked with folks from SGU and older DO schools and they report similar learning experiences. This is a n = 10 thing. I do help select candidates and to us a DO and SGU grad aren't necessarily all that different if they both have adequate rotation sites.

I don't know which stage of training you are in, but those people (SGU and DO grads) are people I worked with clinically during residency and they were all clinically excellent.

Look at the published statistics for Pikeville, KY; their board scores are horrific and frightening.

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

That

This would be a good time to remember that a civil discussion does not include vulgar language or epithets.
Do your best to get back on topic, please.

That depends on which specific user is utilizing the inappropriate language.

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

I have spent 2 years learning at a DO school that was an absolute joke. I have only spent a few weeks under a Caribbean program, but so far, my learning experience is better than anything I could have ever hoped for in my prior osteopathic program. So why don't you save your unqualified and unverified opinions for somewhere else. You clearly do not know what you are talking about

Your experience at one DO school doesn't represent all. Also, the Carribean schools will seem better because you have already been exposed to the content once.

 

[gyngyn]

That depends on which specific user is utilizing the inappropriate language.

My post is to remind us all that this is a forum that values civil discourse.
I am not referring to any single user. This thread has been reported by multiple users for intolerance of opposing views.

 

[Gorne]

It's so unfortunate to hear a medical student talk like this about his peers.

There are a quite a few problems with your assertion here.

First, every doctor with an MD after their name who is eligible to practice in the US has passed the same licensing exams as USMDs. In fact, that is the exact purpose of having standardized licensing examinations - it ensures that everyone who passes them has acceptable and comparable competency (I state the obvious here because you seem oblivious to it). Of course I am not referring to common wealth or Indian MDs who have challenged speciality board exams after practicing in their home countries - but even then the requirement for such MDs to sit for USMLE examinations (or FLEX examinations, depending on how long ago we're talking about) is ALWAYS waived because the ACGME and state licencing boards deem that such MDs have already attained an equivalent level of competence. Caribbean schools - as part of their US accreditation requirements - only award students an MD after they have - among completing all other graduation requirements - passed Step 1 and both parts of Step 2. So your claim that caribbean schools "slap an MD" on "anyone with a wallet" is just plain wrong; everyone who is awarded that degree has earned it. There is just no sense in arguing otherwise.

(And it should be noted that caribbean students are required to submit Step 2 results in order to be eligible to apply to ANY speciality through the NRMP - something not always required of US medical students).

Secondly, in some of your previous misinformed (or ignorant) posts, you seem to question the quality of international MDs. The reason I say you are misinformed or ignorant is that the evidence says otherwise. (Evidence? Oh you know; the same type of evidence that all MDs learn to apply to clinical situations... makes me wonder if they taught evidenced-based-practice properly in your US school) . If you can stop insufflating smoke up your own anus for long enough I would encourage you to take a look through this recent BMJ article:
http://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/356/bmj.j273.full.pdf

There are several other articles out there that have been published in recent years that echo these findings. Of course your problem is with "Caribbean MD's" specifically however, if you look at match data (not that you have to as a US med student because you'll be awarded interviews just by virtue of country in which you studied basic sciences) you'd know that the majority of "independent" applicants in the NRMP main match are US IMGs - the majority of those being US Caribbean students. So the article I just shared with you is indeed relevant to this discussion. While the difference exposed by this articles is significant, it's admittedly not impressively large. So the best we could do in terms of generalization here is to say that there probably isn't much of a clinically relevant difference between US and Internationally educated internists practicing in the US.

Further to that, and as an American citizen, I find your commentary un-American and as a future doctor I question your commitment to US patients. One of the best things about the US is that we base personal advancement on merit - not on extraneous metrics (like someone's country of origin, or where they were educated). In Canada, for example, IMGs (regardless of their nationality - so this applies to Canadian IMGs) can NOT apply to the same residency positions as Canadian or US MDs. If we assume that caribbean IMGs have lower undergrad GPAs and MCAT scores than their Canadian or US colleagues and we know that there is currently no data out there that suggest that these metrics are predictive of future healthcare outcomes what this effectively does is it denies the Canadian healthcare system the opportunity to access the best physicians for a given job (i.e. specialty). This DOESN'T currently happen in the US because BOTH IMGs and US Seniors apply to the same residency positions. I'm personally thankful that we're a country who values medical students' proven abilities over their pedigrees.

Also, in some posts in this thread some have asserted that US students go to the caribbean because they can't don't get into US schools. Well, (in the majority of cases) you're exactly correct. But so what? I can't think of a more brain-dead point to make. So you say you want to stop what Caribbean students are doing? Well, this is EXACTLY what Caribbean students are doing: The fact of the matter is that the US is going to be short 20-30K physicians within the next 2 decades and no matter how far you burry your head in the sand these Caribbean schools that you seem to have so such a disdain for are fulfilling a US necessity - your mother and father, in fact, are VERY likely to be cared for at some point near the end of their lives by an MD who was educated at a Caribbean school - which is great because they're likely to experience a better outcome than if they happen to be seen by a USMD (You should let this last point sink in for a while before you post any knee jerk response to my post). What's also funny about this point is that if US schools and the US government where to pull their socks up and expand existing US med schools to the sizes that they ought to be, GUESS WHO would then be able attend a US MD school? That's right, all those students going to the caribbean would be at US schools.

(However, if you're talking about Canadian students - due to relatively more intense competition in Canada, many decide on the Caribbean because the average med student there goes through 3 rounds of med school applications before being accepted - many people don't have 3 years to waste. A good number of Canadian students end up practicing in the US after attending Caribbean MD schools and many have undergrad GPAs and MCAT scores that would blow most US students out of the water - could you imagine if Canadian citizens could access Title 4 funding - you might not have got into your US med school! Also, please note that Canadian students probably make up ~20% of Caribbean medical schools; your attack on Caribbean students is thus even further misplaced).

Take a second and think about what you're saying, before you share your ignorant, close-minded views.

TL;DR , lol @ being too scared to type your novel with your real account tho

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

Comparing DO schools with Caribbean MD is entirely unfair. DO's have real curriculums. I personally know students who have matriculated and graduated at several of the upper tier Caribbean schools, one of which is an SMP flunk out who if I remember correctly, couldn't put together the concept of how nutrition relates to glucose, ATP, and oxphos, at the END of a biochem course. Another friend of mine (who is an example of the kind of student the Carib should technically be for, one who is capable but had circumstances that hindered competitiveness) complains about how course directors use FA as the recommended textbook.

how anyone can defend a system designed to feed off the dreams of the niave is beyond me.

I don't disagree with your main statement. The fault for the Caribbean schools existence is a two-way street. Yes, they will take almost anyone with a pulse. Some of those individuals with a pulse have the motivation and ability, most probably don't. One should enter this programs carefully weighing the risks versus benefit.

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

My post is to remind us all that this is a forum that values civil discourse.
I am not referring to any single user. This thread has been reported by multiple users for intolerance of opposing views.

Isn't that the SDN standard mode of operation?

 

[Gorne]

I don't disagree with your main statement. The fault for the Caribbean schools existence is a two-way street. Yes, they will take almost anyone with a pulse. Some of those individuals with a pulse have the motivation and ability, most probably don't. One should enter this programs carefully weighing the risks versus benefit.

Agreed. Never did I say that every doctor that graduates from these Carrib schools is incompetent, and USMD's are just as capable of incompetence. What I am saying is that the Caribbean system is broken as a whole, I don't agree with the model. This was enough to bring these (clearly full of self esteem) student doctors flying out from under their palm trees; god forbid anyone disrespect their tropical degree.

 

[Misrepresenting Reality]

Agreed. Never did I say that every doctor that graduates from these Carrib schools is incompetent, and USMD's are just as capable of incompetence. What I am saying is that the Caribbean system is broken as a whole, I don't agree with the model. This was enough to bring these (clearly full of self esteem) student doctors flying out from under their palm trees; god forbid anyone disrespect their tropical degree.

Tropical degree, love it!!

The frequency of incompetence is much lower for AMGs.

 

[nycupnow]

TL;DR , lol @ being too scared to type your novel with your real account tho

"lol" ... "TL;DR" ..."you're too scared"... that's your comeback? You are a sorry excuse for a medical student.

This is my "real account" (a meaningless phrase) - I just made it so that I could reply to your close-minded, crap posts on this thread after stumbling on it after a google search for something else. Some of us don't bother wasting time (over two years it looks like for you) on useless forums like these. As far as being "scared" goes I would gladly say anything I've said directly to your face (in fact, I would gladly say it to an auditorium full of useless, winey US students who share your opinion, and then shoot down your idiotic rebuttals and questions at the end) - however this site obviously doesn't permit that sort of thing. This will likely be my last post on this website - and for good reason as I actually feel less intelligent after reading your idiotic posts ("TL;DR," "lol" "@." Seems as though a teenage girl is posting from your account). Enjoy your subpar life.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Clearly my post hit a little close to home for you. You have no idea my accomplishments or my perspective, what I do know is you clearly have no perspective on much of anything at all. I can only imagine if my view of the Caribbean medical education system (a commonly held view by most residency directors btw) brings this out in you over the internet, how glaring your inferiority complex must be in real life.

If I were to have an inferiority complex it certainly wouldn't be triggered by a DO student who just took Step 1. Give me a break.

Furthermore you can't say you don't mean to disrespect Caribbean MD's when you say things like "I will bash those who graduate from them". The grads don't have **** to do with it, any more than you have anything to do with the hocus pocus that is OMM.

Following your logic, you being a DO student just makes you second-rate in comparison to Caribbean students being 3rd rate. Damn near the pot calling the kettle black here, no?

 

[Gorne]

If I were to have an inferiority complex it certainly wouldn't be triggered by a DO student who just took Step 1. Give me a break.

Furthermore you can't say you don't mean to disrespect Caribbean MD's when you say things like "I will bash those who graduate from them". The grads don't have **** to do with it, any more than you have anything to do with the hocus pocus that is OMM.

Following your logic, you being a DO student just makes you second-rate in comparison to Caribbean students being 3rd rate. Damn near the pot calling the kettle black here, no?

You can't seriously have such a lack in reading comprehension to have come up with me being a DO student. Your entire little tirade, just to show how low your reading IQ is? Maybe you should focus a little more on learning how to read and less on putting that inferiority complex on full blast on the internet.

 

[gyngyn]

There is little to be gained in this thread's continued existence.