SGU or DO

[Syncope82]

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Hahaha, Syncope! I believe the expression is "to beat a dead horse". I've yet to hear cow used instead. 👍

lol..that horse kind of looks like a cow

 

[gasapple]

lol..that horse kind of looks like a cow

 

[Lamborghini1315]

that's not the point. The point is the spots are taken up by US MD's and DO's. Then whatever is left is a gamble for FMG/IMG's. Thank you for the evidence 🙂



not interested in flaming either. the op asked a legit question, so the pro's and con's must come out of both sides


Yep, I know all of SGU rotations are greebook, prior to this new update. I'm glad to hear they kept up with their standard. this is probably the primary reason why SGU is easily the best compared to any other Carib school

but the simple fact is, US DO is the way to go over Caribbean MD...that is if you don't care what is behind your name

Again my friend just when everyone seems to be making a good point or two they will sway back to making a bad one. Here's what you need to correct in your mindset..that is if you are going to be a DO it's coz you believed osteopathy is for ya..not coz you wanted it to be a better alternative to caribbean. People who go to caribbean may feel DO is not for them so they go that route..but are they being smart? I don't think so because it will certainly hurt their chances during residency..if you read my previous post i mentioned how all those MD wanna be's should go to an allopathic school here to better their chances. If you do choose the DO route you better be in sync with osteopaths..so you my friend you better care what's behind your name coz that will be your credentials for rest of your life.

 

[EuroPhysician]

I would pick a DO school over any foreign school any day of the week, you will automatically put yourself at a disadvantage once you go outside of North America for med school.

 

[Syncope82]

Again my friend just when everyone seems to be making a good point or two they will sway back to making a bad one. Here's what you need to correct in your mindset..that is if you are going to be a DO it's coz you believed osteopathy is for ya..not coz you wanted it to be a better alternative to caribbean. People who go to caribbean may feel DO is not for them so they go that route..but are they being smart? I don't think so because it will certainly hurt their chances during residency..if you read my previous post i mentioned how all those MD wanna be's should go to an allopathic school here to better their chances. If you do choose the DO route you better be in sync with osteopaths..so you my friend you better care what's behind your name coz that will be your credentials for rest of your life.

Don't get me wrong Lamborghini1315, I did not chose DO because I had no other option. In fact, I did not even apply to any MD schools. My uncle is a DO physician, in fact, a very prominent one, along with 3 of my 1st-cousins, so it runs in my family and I've always been attracted to Osteopathy in general. (I love getting those Kirkesville Crunches done 🙂).

In fact, I had a very important experience that has shaped my view towards DO's. I had a friend who got injured very badly in a ski accident (ran into some trees) and after recovering from all the fractures, he was having severe hiccup problems...no MD could figure it out. He had an MRI/CT scan done, everything you can imagine...but to no resolve

He finally saw a DO specializing in OMM and it turned out that one of his phrenic nerves was out of sync with the contralateral side due to muscle impingement. As a result, his diaphragm was out of sync resulting in hiccups. It was resolved after a month of OMM treatments and loosening up his cervical muscles....I was amazed at the recovery, it was a diffrence between night and day after the treatments

anyhow, I really do not care what is behind my name, as long as I can practice medicine and not be restricted in doing so

 

[CookieCrisp]

anesthesiology at Rush, surgery at USC, psychiatry at Beth Israel, peds and internal med at Cleveland Clinic. I could go on but you get the point. These are not programs that have empty spots. You think a US grad with a 190-210 is more competitive than an IMG with a 240 and all else being roughly equal? Now certainly the IMG must have better clinical grades/board scores to compete with the US allos and most osteos, but PDs won't take the bottom of the barrel of US grads and pass over a 240 IMG. Ask around.

Having gone through the whole residency interview process, you BETTER BELIEVE that a US allopathic (MD) grad with a 210 will be HANDS-DOWN favored over the IMG with a 240!~ Some residency programs do NOT even INTERVIEW IMG's even if their score is 260+. There are far fewer programs that shut-out DO's. I know of a few in Cali as a matter of fact. If you think a good USMLE score will make up for not being a US allo, you are TRULY TRULY mistaken. Like I said before, it's all about WHERE u want to end up doing residency. Sure, if you want to be in NY then maybe caribbean is okay, but if ur trying to get to Cali, it's NOT easy.

Also, don't try to put up match stats because u need to look at the sheer VOLUME of students that graduate from the caribb schools compared to DO schools and look at how many don't even match at all! sure, a few ppl out of 750 grads can get a gen surg spot at 'x' location but is that really a good ratio of ppl?

 

[prionsRbad]

Having gone through the whole residency interview process, you BETTER BELIEVE that a US grad with a 210 will be HANDS-DOWN favored over the IMG with a 240!~ Some residency programs do NOT even INTERVIEW IMG's even if their score is 260+. I know of a few in Cali as a matter of fact. If you think a good USMLE score will make up for not being a US allo, you are TRULY TRULY mistaken. Like I said before, it's all about WHERE u want to end up doing residency. Sure, if you want to be in NY then maybe caribbean is okay, but if ur trying to get to Cali, it's NOT easy.

Also, don't try to put up match stats because u need to look at the sheer VOLUME of students that graduate from the caribb schools compared to DO schools and look at how many don't even match at all! sure, a few ppl out of 750 grads can get a gen surg spot at 'x' location but is that really a good ratio of ppl?

First of all, I love your username! I haven't had those since I was a kid . . . I might have to go get some now! 😉

I work at one of the UC's in CA and a neurologist that I work with told me (after he found out that I was accepted to an osteopathic med school) the director of the program threw out 2 DO's applications for a neurology fellowship just because they were DOs. Are you a DO from Cali? I guess I just assumed you were from your post.

What have you experienced regarding UC residency and fellowship programs and how they view DO's? I hope that this is not the norm at most CA hospitals. 😱 I hope that director was just an *sshole! 🙄

Thanks 🙂

 

[Syncope82]

First of all, I love your username! I haven't had those since I was a kid . . . I might have to go get some now! 😉

I work at one of the UC's in CA and a neurologist that I work with told me (after he found out that I was accepted to an osteopathic med school) the director of the program threw out 2 DO's applications for a neurology fellowship just because they were DOs. Are you a DO from Cali? I guess I just assumed you were from your post.

What have you experienced regarding UC residency and fellowship programs and how they view DO's? I hope that this is not the norm at most CA hospitals. 😱 I hope that director was just an *sshole! 🙄

Thanks 🙂

Unfortunately, this bias does exist for DO's as well. some hospitals won't even consider DO students for both a residency and for rotations.

Also another thing everyone has to consider is that US MD programs are expanding their class sizes like crazy and DO schools are popping up everywhere. However, the number of residencies have not kept up in pace. This means that there's going to be even less and less of a chance for a FMG to obtain a residency in the US

 

[CookieCrisp]

First of all, I love your username! I haven't had those since I was a kid . . . I might have to go get some now! 😉

I work at one of the UC's in CA and a neurologist that I work with told me (after he found out that I was accepted to an osteopathic med school) the director of the program threw out 2 DO's applications for a neurology fellowship just because they were DOs. Are you a DO from Cali? I guess I just assumed you were from your post.

What have you experienced regarding UC residency and fellowship programs and how they view DO's? I hope that this is not the norm at most CA hospitals. 😱 I hope that director was just an *sshole! 🙄

Thanks 🙂

prionsrbad, LOL i like ur username too...made me laugh w/ the cow avatar! I am a 4th year DO student from Cali 🙂 I too agree that there definitely ARE biases against DO's in CA however not as strong as those against IMG's. I am going into a primary care field (yay for kids!) and I got interviews at the UC's in southern CA. Certain UC's do strongly favor US-MD grads (ie. UCLA main campus). But remember that there are MANY more hospitals in Cali than the UC hospitals. It honestly depends on which FIELD you want to go into. I think Neurology, surgical fields, and somewhat Ob/Gyn is more "old school" thus having a stronger anti-DO/IMG bias. BUT, remember there are DO residencies in many of these fields as well.

 

[Syncope82]

prionsrbad, LOL i like ur username too...made me laugh w/ the cow avatar! I am a 4th year DO student from Cali 🙂 I too agree that there definitely ARE biases against DO's in CA however not as strong as those against IMG's. I am going into a primary care field (yay for kids!) and I got interviews at the UC's in southern CA. Certain UC's do strongly favor US-MD grads (ie. UCLA main campus). But remember that there are MANY more hospitals in Cali than the UC hospitals. It honestly depends on which FIELD you want to go into. I think Neurology, surgical fields, and somewhat Ob/Gyn is more "old school" thus having a stronger anti-DO/IMG bias. BUT, remember there are DO residencies in many of these fields as well.

California is definitely a rough place for FMG's and DO's in general, but I agree that FMG's have it more rough

BTW: I still eat cookie crisp cereal and I sure am looking forward to it tomm

 

[prionsRbad]

prionsrbad, LOL i like ur username too...made me laugh w/ the cow avatar! I am a 4th year DO student from Cali 🙂 I too agree that there definitely ARE biases against DO's in CA however not as strong as those against IMG's. I am going into a primary care field (yay for kids!) and I got interviews at the UC's in southern CA. Certain UC's do strongly favor US-MD grads (ie. UCLA main campus). But remember that there are MANY more hospitals in Cali than the UC hospitals. It honestly depends on which FIELD you want to go into. I think Neurology, surgical fields, and somewhat Ob/Gyn is more "old school" thus having a stronger anti-DO/IMG bias. BUT, remember there are DO residencies in many of these fields as well.

Thank you! As of now I'm interested in peds, although everyone tells me that I'll change my mind after rotations. I would really like to come back to CA for my residency, so we'll see what happens! Thanks again! 🙂

 

[group_theory]

It honestly depends on which FIELD you want to go into. I think Neurology, surgical fields, and somewhat Ob/Gyn is more "old school" thus having a stronger anti-DO/IMG bias. BUT, remember there are DO residencies in many of these fields as well.

Actually neurology is one of the more DO friendly fields (and generally isn't very competitive). While there are certain program directors who may be biased against DOs, neurology in general isn't considered old-school anti-DOs.


Agreed with surgery, surgical field, and Ob/Gyn being old-school.

 

[fisko82]

Having gone through the whole residency interview process, you BETTER BELIEVE that a US grad with a 210 will be HANDS-DOWN favored over the IMG with a 240!

This is hard to believe. I wouldn't think "US grad" would be as important to a PD as would be a "US MD". By saying US grad, you're grouping DOs into the mix, suggesting that a DO with a 210 would be "HANDS-DOWN favored over the IMG with a 240"...a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I can't imagine how the DO degree would make you a hands-down favorite for allopathic residencies.

 

[CookieCrisp]

This is hard to believe. I wouldn't think "US grad" would be as important to a PD as would be a "US MD". By saying US grad, you're grouping DOs into the mix, suggesting that a DO with a 210 would be "HANDS-DOWN favored over the IMG with a 240"...a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I can't imagine how the DO degree would make you a hands-down favorite for allopathic residencies.

sorry for the confusion- I think you misinterpreted my statement. I was referring to US-MD grads (not to DO's). It was a response to the previous poster who used this term to signify US-MD's. A few sentences down I say "US allo" meaning US allopathic student. In terms of Residency and the NRMP, US-seniors=US-MD's; independent applicants=DO's, IMG's, and everyone else; will edit the post to clarify. Hope this helps!

 

[Lamborghini1315]

This thread is still alive huh..the truth is american doc's get preferential treatment over foreign doc's is that so hard to believe. If you go to Australia, the same thing applies to australians..its simple as that. On a side note..no one should confuse this thread for an attack on caribbean students as less smarter/incompetent than american graduates..if you passed boards, did residency you are on the same field but playing a harder position which requires more work on your side. Unfortunately that's how the system's been..if anything its getting worse for foreign docs than better. So all i am saying is the distinction between american docs and foreign docs wont be clear until residency time. It sucks..so stay home and finish your education here.

 

[Syncope82]

This thread is still alive huh..the truth is american doc's get preferential treatment over foreign doc's is that so hard to believe. If you go to Australia, the same thing applies to australians..its simple as that. On a side note..no one should confuse this thread for an attack on caribbean students as less smarter/incompetent than american graduates..if you passed boards, did residency you are on the same field but playing a harder position which requires more work on your side. Unfortunately that's how the system's been..if anything its getting worse for foreign docs than better. So all i am saying is the distinction between american docs and foreign docs wont be clear until residency time. It sucks..so stay home and finish your education here.

Agreed,

In fact, you are right, it is getting worse and worse for caribbean grads...why? b/c allopathic programs are expanding like crazy and DO programs are opening up and expanding class sizes dramatically as well....all this without any increase in residency spots....so the DO's and extra US MD's from expansion are eating up those spots that are usually let over for FMG's

 

[spazzz]

what i don't understand is why don't people considering going to Austrailia? It seems like such a great opportunity to work/live in a great country, instead of gambling on a carribiean education.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Australia is almost impossible for a non-australian to get into medical school.

I'm not sure how their system works, exactly, but I know their law school is kind of a combined undergrad-grad degree. That is, you start "law school" when you're done with high school, and its like a 6-year program or something. Not sure if their med school is the same way.

And don't forget that Australian anatomy is a lot different than what they have here. They have two hearts, gills instead of lungs, and they circulate orange blood.

 

[Turkelton]

I used to live in Australia, and from what I understand if you're not Australian or have no immediate relatives that are Australian than it is not really an option to get into med school there. However if you have ties to the country than its a possibility.

In Australia there are two routes to becoming physician:

1. Straight out of high school- 6 year program leading to MBBS degree

2. After having a bachelors degree- 4 year program leading to MBBS degree

I like how in different parts of the world, you only need to complete a bachelors degree to become a physician, it eliminates all the other unecessary B.S. that American Med students had to go through in undergrad.

 

[igcgnerd]

First of all, I love your username! I haven't had those since I was a kid . . . I might have to go get some now! 😉

I work at one of the UC's in CA and a neurologist that I work with told me (after he found out that I was accepted to an osteopathic med school) the director of the program threw out 2 DO's applications for a neurology fellowship just because they were DOs. Are you a DO from Cali? I guess I just assumed you were from your post.

What have you experienced regarding UC residency and fellowship programs and how they view DO's? I hope that this is not the norm at most CA hospitals. 😱 I hope that director was just an *sshole! 🙄

Thanks 🙂

I think its weird that he would just totally disregard a DO since there is currently one in their program and another who is an alumni of the program and in one of their fellowships.

 

[prionsRbad]

I think its weird that he would just totally disregard a DO since there is currently one in their program and another who is an alumni of the program and in one of their fellowships.

PM'd you. 🙂

 

[igcgnerd]

Just to clear things up for others I was talking about UC Davis

 

[JaggerPlate]

Just to clear things up for others I was talking about UC Davis

Also, just to clear something else up ... Australians bleed green, not orange like Tex incorrectly stated. Get your facts straight troll.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Speaking of going to med school in Australia.... What would be the chances of being able to either do rotations 4th year or residency in Australia? If you did your residency there, or even part of it, would you still be eligible to be licensed and practice in the US?

 

[Turkelton]

I believe the majority of DO schools, will allow med students to do one or two rotations overseas (at an approved site). I'm pretty sure that you couldn't do your entire 3rd or 4th year of med school in Australia, but you could probably arrange a month or two for doing a rotation there.
Residency there is not an option, unless of course you wanted to stay in Australia after residency, and practice medicine there permenantly. When it comes to international medical practice, the common trend is that medical degrees are generally transferable from country to country. However postgraduate training is for the most part not transferable (of course there are exceptions). I.E the caribbean med students don't experience much of a problem obtainining some sort of residency here in the U.S., but if they stayed on and did their residency in the Caribean, they would not be able to practice medicine in the U.S. (b/c in order to pass USMLE III or COMLEX III one needs X amount of time in U.S. residency). Also this is why you'll see British students going to SGU, since they return to Britain for post-graduate training. So I guess if you're looking to travel around alot as a doc, you could join the military, or become a cruiseship doc, or you if wanted to do something really amazing you could join doctors without borders.

 

[MossPoh]

Australia is almost impossible for a non-australian to get into medical school.

Their med school classes are pretty big and contain a fairly large amount of international students from many of the surrounding countries. I've heard of numerous canadians and americans going there for medical school with no real connection except for maybe an aussie bf/gf. You do get kind of forced into the unpleasurable places for a bit if you choose to stay. I think Dr. Cox went to an aussie med school didn't she, or am I just making things up? (always a possibility)

 

[spazzz]

Their med school classes are pretty big and contain a fairly large amount of international students from many of the surrounding countries. I've heard of numerous canadians and americans going there for medical school with no real connection except for maybe an aussie bf/gf. You do get kind of forced into the unpleasurable places for a bit if you choose to stay. I think Dr. Cox went to an aussie med school didn't she, or am I just making things up? (always a possibility)

you hear quite a bit about canadians going to school in aussie. better option than SGU imo