SGU or DO

[MaximusD]

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Osteo

I didnt look at DO school as a "means to an end"

I look at it as an endeavor.

Isn't it dually-accredited, though?

 

[RockfordWF]

SGU is regarded the best MD school outside the USA and Canada in North America. If you are accepted to a middle rank (eg. NOVA) or low ranked (LMU, since it is new), which one would you choose and why?

USMLE step 1 passing rate for SGU has been 95% for the first attempt.

When applying for a residency, Caribbean is considered subpar when compared to DO schools. This is for good reason----Caribbean schools are much easier to get into.

The pass rate is irrelevant. You should never look at this----the average score is more important.

 

[RockfordWF]

I may be wrong, but from all the faculty I talked to, the information I read, and the 3rd and 4th years, the consensus is that taking the USMLE step I as a DO student is completely unnecessary these days. The faculty member I talked to was the first osteopathic resident in the Harvard IM program.

Many residencies require the USMLE for DO's.

 

[Lokhtar]

Many residencies require the USMLE for DO's.

And others highly recommend it. Some don't though. I'd probably take them both, just in case.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Considering the fact that you probably don't know what residency programs you're going to apply to when it is time to take the boards, it would be foolish not to take both, just in case.

 

[JaggerPlate]

When applying for a residency, Caribbean is considered subpar when compared to DO schools. This is for good reason----Caribbean schools are much easier to get into.

The pass rate is irrelevant. You should never look at this----the average score is more important.

It becomes important when SGU brags about their pass rates, but in reality they hold people back from taking the boards, give practice tests, etc etc ...

 

[CookieCrisp]

LOCATION is KEY. biases are region-specific esp. in terms of applying for residency. I'm a 4th year DO student currently. I chose to go to a DO school in Cali over a US-MD school back east because I wanted to stay close to my family. Go where u will be happy with your overall life situation.

The reality of applying for residency in California (can't speak for other states) is US-MD>DO>>>>>FMG/IMG-MD. People who say otherwise are either full of crap or highly exceptional outliers. Some DO schools are clearly better than others (especially in terms of clinical years) and some carib schools are stronger than others. In Cali, the bias against FMG/IMG's is MUCH MUCH stronger than biases against DO's. Most DO's applying to residency in Cali also take UMSLE in addition to COMLEX to show that they can succeed on this exam as well. You will not even get any interviews to UC-affiliated residency programs as a 4th year IMG/FMG because they require a completed "CA letter" that verifies all your rotations (and if you're still in school, you obviously can't have that letter completed in time). I think if you want to do a residency other than Family medicine in Cali, it is MUCH MUCH better to go the DO-route!!! There are also VERY good DO residencies in Cali as well as the MD ones. food for thought.....

 

[Syncope82]

SGU is accepting 400-500 students per semester (and they have 2 incoming semesters per year)...so that is ~1000 new med students a year

They recently made this change and the first class with the new increase in class size has not hit rotations yet. When they do, it will be a disaster. Why? because SGU hasn't done anything to secure larger clinical rotation spots so there will be a huge bottleneck...similar to what Ross has going on

it comes down to this---any medical school on US soil, whether DO or MD is better than going to the caribbean

all US students get first pick on residencies and the leftovers are passed to FMG's. I heard something along the lines that you have to have a USMLE score 20 pts higher than the average per specialty in order for a FMG to compete "fairly" with a US student

 

[Syncope82]

Many residencies require the USMLE for DO's.

on the other hand, many allopathic residencies allow a COMLEX score to be converted into a USMLE

 

[StriveToBeDr]

SGU is accepting 400-500 students per semester (and they have 3 incoming semesters per year)...so that is ~1500 new med students a year

They recently made this change and the first class with the new increase in class size has not hit rotations yet. When they do, it will be a disaster. Why? because SGU hasn't done anything to secure larger clinical rotation spots so there will be a huge bottleneck...similar to what Ross has going on

it comes down to this---any medical school on US soil, whether DO or MD is better than going to the caribbean

all US students get first pick on residencies and the leftovers are passed to FMG's. I heard something along the lines that you have to have a USMLE score 20 pts higher than the average per specialty in order for a FMG to compete "fairly" with a US student

They only have two semesters, and they just secured rotation sites with 100 million dollars.

Medical students should know what they are talking about instead of spreading rumors.

 

[Syncope82]

They only have two semesters, and they just secured rotation sites with 100 million dollars.

Medical students should know what they are talking about instead of spreading rumors.

I changed my reply to reflect the 2 new incoming semesters. That was my mistake and i apologize

in regards to securing new rotations sites....are they acgme approved? where's the proof? what sites?

I hope you know what you're talking about in regards to $100 million dollars in new sites and can provide proof...?

I was not blatently spreading rumors..I am just telling it like it is

BTW..for those who think SGU have first pick over residencies since they are the best...please think again...there are numerous medical schools in Europe that are held much more in esteem

 

[Lamborghini1315]

Go where you can and go where you think you will succeed..if your path will lead you to your goals then be it. Ultimately you make your own fate, you take the boards like everyone else so if someone thinks caribbean is a better way to do well, go for it! In my opinion, i know DO's are infact gaining and have a lot of advantages over foreign medical graduates. DO's and MD's here compete for spots that won't be open to caribbean graduates until they go unfilled. So all caribbean route applicants can argue all they want..but if you truly work hard and do well on boards, rotations...sure you can be equally successful as american grads.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I cannot think of anything that would suck more balls than moving to freaking grenada to go to med school at a notorious diploma mill, in a class of 500 incoming students. I would do it only as an absolute last resort.

 

[Syncope82]

I cannot think of anything that would suck more balls than moving to freaking grenada to go to med school at a notorious diploma mill, in a class of 500 incoming students. I would do it only as an absolute last resort.

what would suck more balls is going to Dominica (Ross) instead....the same situation..but a much, much worse island...trust me..I've visited a friend there and it was the biggest mistake in my life

 

[anthroguy]

at all DO schools there are a significant number of students who chose the school over an US MD schoool (an example is UMDNJ-SOM where the instate tuition plus generous scholarships makes it much more attractive financially than a school like drexel across the river). All carib students are US rejects, either MD or DO. No one ever would choose a carib school over anything else, residency directors know this.

 

[vickfan1]

I hope you know what you're talking about in regards to $100 million dollars in new sites and can provide proof...?

I was not blatently spreading rumors..I am just telling it like it is

years 3 and 4 are clinicals in NEW YORK. SGU does have a deal w/ New York hospitals so that their students can spend years 3 and 4 there.

I was interviewed for SGU.

I strongly suggest that you (not necessarily YOU Syncope, but premeds in general) interview at SGU so you can ask all the right questions and be well-informed. then make a decision based on all the facts b/c there are so many rumors going around. most of them is due to the "shady" caribbean schools that accept students w/o a MCAT score.

 

[vickfan1]

I cannot think of anything that would suck more balls than moving to freaking grenada to go to med school at a notorious diploma mill, in a class of 500 incoming students. I would do it only as an absolute last resort.

SGU admission standards are similar to DO schools. SGU is 3.4 GPA & 26 MCAT. Not exactly a DILPLOMA MILL. There are many MD-rejects who dont want to go DO that attend SGU.

i believe that admission statistics were somewhere along the lines of:
1/3 get an interview invite, and half of those 1/3 get accepted = 1/6 acceptance rate.

this is random, but i hear that the average USMLE step 1 for US allopathic medical students are ~215... and that SGU's students are 210. take it for what its worth.

i thought long and hard about SGU vs DO. i am favoring DO over SGU for my own personal reasons. but theres absolutely no shame or shadiness in going to SGU. peop make SGU (or caribbean schools) look like a scam. the "big 4" caribbean schools will get you where u want to be if u work hard. lets leave it at that.

 

[StriveToBeDr]

nice said. human beings need to be rational instead of filling with discrimination.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Regardless of any statistics you might have, SGU would suck for me personally. I don't want to live in ****ing Grenada for any reason. I also don't want to be in a class with 500 other students. When I went to KCUMB and sat in on one of their classes, I knew that the 270 was too much for me. It was pretty much right then and there that I knew I'd go to GA-PCOM if I got in. Their 80-ish students/class is a big selling point with me.

SGU is not the nearly-automatic ticket to becoming a physician that a US MD or DO school is. And its in ****ing Grenada. And they take 500 students/class.

 

[vickfan1]

yeah, i feel you on the class size. that was a huge turn off for me as well. i, personally, learn more in a smaller environment/class.

but in SGU's defense, that 500 is broken down to 2 categories (350 grenada and 150 UK?). again, for those who want that "MD"... if they want it that badly, go for it!

as much as have defended SGU and perhaps even PROMOTED the school on this thread... i chose DO b/c i personally dont care much about the 2 letters. so GA PCOM here i come!

after all is said and done, weigh your OPTIONS... make a mental list of the PROs and CONs to both routes (SGU vs DO). and make a careful choice. for me, it was ga pcom.

for the avg premed student the pros and cons look something similiar to this:
PRO SGU- "MD" degree, caribbean experience
CON SGU- money, caribbean experience, hassle (exchange currency, flying, new country, etc)

PRO DO- more options available for residencies (b/c u have both allopathic and osteopathic), the comfort of staying in the US, in the eyes of your future peers (doctors) MD = DO
CON DO- "its not exactly a MD" and old farts or ignorant premed students may think less of you.

my situation was a little different. 1) i dont care too much about the 2 degrees; 2) my DO school is only 10 mins away from my house (so no HOUSING necessary... i like to pretend that i won a free HOUSING scholarship); 3) ive been all over the world including caribbean (ok, so i havent been to Africa or Antartica... but give me a break) so i dont think/feel that im missing out on anything. i personally dont want the caribbean experience. and since I dont care much about the 2 letters, i feel that PCOM is a better offer for me. plus, i have a feeling ill get more financial aid here than for SGU.

not sure if all of that made any sense... its almost 5 AM here and im too tired to proofread or double check my writing. peace!

 

[Syncope82]

years 3 and 4 are clinicals in NEW YORK. SGU does have a deal w/ New York hospitals so that their students can spend years 3 and 4 there.

I was interviewed for SGU.

I strongly suggest that you (not necessarily YOU Syncope, but premeds in general) interview at SGU so you can ask all the right questions and be well-informed. then make a decision based on all the facts b/c there are so many rumors going around. most of them is due to the "shady" caribbean schools that accept students w/o a MCAT score.

You just gave me a name of a state....again...which hospitals? it could mean they are crap...are the even acgme certified? are they teaching hospitals? until i see proof...I still dont believe it

no matter what you guys say, even though SGU admission stats are similar to DO stats, they are always skewed. One thing I have learned is to never trust Caribbean stats...they always skew it to make themselves look better

not a diploma mill? taking in 500 students per semester, when you know only ~60% will graduate successfully is greedy...instead of focusing on the making sure the current students will succeed, they just admit more to make sure their numbers are filled..😎

 

[fireflygirl]

You just gave me a name of a state....again...which hospitals? it could mean they are crap...are the even acgme certified? are they teaching hospitals? until i see proof...I still dont believe it

no matter what you guys say, even though SGU admission stats are similar to DO stats, they are always skewed. One thing I have learned is to never trust Caribbean stats...they always skew it to make themselves look better

not a diploma mill? taking in 500 students per semester, when you know only ~60% will graduate successfully is greedy...instead of focusing on the making sure the current students will succeed, they just admit more to make sure their numbers are filled..😎

Affiliated Hospitals for SGU:

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/som/affiliated-hospitals.html

 

[scdocusc]

if the argument against Osteopathic Medical school is that DO's have premeds and old fart MD's that dont believe in them. I think 99% of people would take that over the "average at best" residencies that "the big 4" offer. If you think about it; who cares about pre-meds? and old MD's are gonna die in a few years anyway. I know I'll be darn proud to put my diploma on my office wall someday. I dont know how many Carrib. students would say that.

 

[NjD00]

Save us from having to deal with people like you and get out of the country for everyone's sake (referring to people who didn't go abroad just to chase some initials)

(Voting SGU, for you)

 

[Syncope82]

Affiliated Hospitals for SGU:

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/som/affiliated-hospitals.html

The Brooklyn Hospital Center

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Address: 121 DeKalb Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11201
Phone: 718-250-6420
Website: www.tbh.org
Director of Medical Education:
Dr. Daniel Ricciardi
Phone 718-250-6600
Fax-718-250-6080
Student Coordinator:
Karine Moscoso
Phone: 718-250-6420
Fax: 718-250-6605
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered: Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/Gynecology
Electives Available: Pediatrics, Surgery, Gastroenterology, Pulmonary Medicine, Hematology/ Oncology, Ophthalmology, Pathology, Cardiology, Endocrinology, Ambulatory Care, Infectious Disease, Nuerology, Nephrology, Nuclear Medicine, Rheumatology, Radiology, Gynecologic Oncology, Maternal Fetal Medicine and Medicine Sub-I.
The Hospital
Brooklyn Hospital Center provides excellent general and advanced medical and surgical services at its Downtown and the Caledonian Campuses. The two sites service more than 500,000 people a year. Some of the services that are offered include an AIDS Institute, cancer care, and orthopaedic and special surgery. The Brooklyn Hospital Center also offers over 60 other types of outpatient services to the public.

General Interest
Brooklyn is the largest borough of New York City. It is relatively easy to get to Manhattan using mass transportation. However, Brooklyn offers a wide array of interesting activities ranging from The Brooklyn Museum which houses 2 million works of art to the 50 acre Botanic Gardens to The Brooklyn Academy of Music, the oldest continuously operating performing arts center in America. Additionally, there are parks, beaches, and restaurants in ethnically diverse neighborhoods that is home to 2.3 million people.

*Information taken from www.tbh.org is printed with permission of The Brooklyn Hospital Center

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.



Coney Island Hospital

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Address: 2601 Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11235
Phone:718-616-3000
Website: http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/hhc/html/coneyisland.html
Director of Medical Education:
Robert Cucco, MD
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/ Gynecology and Psychiatry.
Electives Available: Medicine Sub I, Endocrinology, Cardiology, Nephrology, Rheumatology, Hematology, Neurology, Infectious Diseases, Gastroenterology, Radiology, Urology, Orthopedic Surgery, Surgery Sub I, Ophthalmology, Obstetrics/Gynecology Sub I, Anesthesia, Dermatology, Primary Care, Oncology, Advanced Pediatrics and Vascular/Thoracic Surgery, Emergency medicine, Pathology, Pulmonary, Adolescent Medicine, Neonatology, Pediatric ER, MICU, SICU, Plastics.
The Hospital
Coney Island Hospital, the largest medical facility in the southern Brooklyn area, serves a diversified cultural and a large geriatric population. The hospital has 367 inpatient beds and an extensive ambulatory care program, which includes a hospital-based Primary Care Center and an outreach site at the Community Health Center in Coney Island. The hospital provides a full range of general and specialty ambulatory care services, as well as full emergency services and inpatient services.

General Interest
Coney Island Hospital is located in Brooklyn, New York, the largest borough of New York City. The hospital is adjacent to historic Brighton Beach, a culturally diverse residential area with restaurants and shopping. World renown Coney Island Amusement Park is on the boardwalk as is the New York Aquarium.

Web Page Link : http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/hhc/html/coneyisland.html

*Information is printed with permission of Coney Island Hospital.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.


Jamaica Hospital Medical Center

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Address: 8900 Van Wyck Expressway, Jamaica, NY 11418
Phone: 718-206-6000
Website: www.jamaicahospital.org
Director of Medical Education:
Surendrakumar Mahadevia, MD
Administrator:
Nancy Burke
Phone: 718-206-8039
Fax: 718-206-5812
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/ Gynecology, Psychiatry.
Electives Available: Pulmonary, Cardiology, Neurology, Clinical Nutrition, Rehabilitation Medicine.
The Hospital-
Jamaica Hospital is a thriving 387-bed modern facility set amidst a community whose health status remains poor because of socio-economic factors. Jamaica Hospital has recently undergone a three phase multi-million dollar restructuring project of its facilities to accommodate a growing population. Almost 60% of patients served by the hospital are Medicaid eligible and 8% have no means of payment. Its Level I Trauma Center is one of the busiest in the Metropolitan area, and the ER receives over 90,000 visits per year. The psychiatric emergency room has 50 in-patient mental health beds. The traumatic brain injury unit, a first of its kind in the area, utilizes state of the art science to work intensively with patients who have had cognitive and physical injuries as a result of head trauma or stroke.

General Interest-
Queens, one of the largest boroughs of New York City is known for its culturally and ethnically diverse neighborhoods. It is the home of Shea Stadium and the Arthur Ashe Tennis Center at Flushing Meadows. Jamaica Center for the Arts and Learning is located in Queens as are many universities, parks, shopping, and restaurants. Manhattan is a short subway ride away.


*Information taken from www.jamaicahospital.org is printed with permission of Jamaica Hospital Medical Center.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.
Long Island College Hospital

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Address: 339 Hicks Street, Brooklyn, NY 11201
Phone:718-780-1000
Website: www.wehealnewyork.org
Director of Medical Education:
Robert L. Levey, MD
Administrator:
Maria Vega
Phone: 718-780-1206
Fax: 718-780-1373
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/ Gynecology
Electives Available: Neurology, Neuro-Surgery, OB/GYN, Infectious Disease, Gastroenterology, Hematology/Oncology, Critical Care, Geriatric Medicine, Radiology, Allergy/Immunology, Anesthesiology, Cardiology, Emergency Medicine, Endocrinology, Nephrology, Ophthalmology, Orthopedic Surgery, Otolaryngology, Pathology, Pediatrics, Pulmonary, Rehabilitation Medicine, Rheumatology, Urology, Family Medicine, Medicine Sub-I and Pediatric Sub-I.
The Hospital-
Long Island College Hospital has served the residents of Brooklyn and the wider metropolitan area since 1858. Today, Long Island College Hospital combines the best features of a major medical center, through teaching and research, with the personal approach of a community-centered hospital. The 516-bed hospital offers a wide range of medical and surgical services and boasts many clinical areas of excellence including the Stanley S. Lamm Institute for Child Neurology and Developmental Disabilities, one of the first centers in the nation for the treatment of neurological disabilities.

General Interest-
Long Island College Hospital is located in the Brooklyn Heights / Cobble Hill section of Brooklyn, a neighborhood of historic brownstone buildings, restaurants, and shopping. Near Lower Manhattan and Greenwich Village, and the art galleries of SOHO is just across the East River and a short subway ride away.
* Information taken from www.wehealnewyork.org is printed with permission of Long Island College Hospital.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.
Lutheran Medical Center

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Address: 150 55th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11220-2574
Phone:718-630-7000
Website: www.lmcmc.com
Director of Medical Education:
Victor R. Hrehorovich, MD
Administrator:
Diana Calderon-Ngui
Phone: 718-630-7368
Fax: 718-630-8471
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Obstetrics/ Gynecology, Surgery and Pediatrics.
Electives Available: Family Medicine, Cardiology, Gastroenterology, Infectious Disease, Critical Care, MICU, Neurology, Nephrology, Pulmonary, Rheumatology, Trauma, Emergency Medicine, and Medical and Surgical Subspecialties. Thoracic suregery, General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Surgical ICU.
The Hospital-
Lutheran Medical Center is a 501- bed teaching hospital, a community health center network, and a 240- bed nursing home. Lutheran Medical Center offers Medical, Surgical, Intensive Care, Pediatrics, Obstetrics, and Gynecological services as well as numerous special services and health initiatives to the Southwest area of Brooklyn, New York. Lutheran Medical Center physicians and medical residents are encouraged to do research and scholarly activities and use the Educational Resource Center which has a medical library and other educational resources.

General Interest-
Lutheran Medical Center is located in the Southwestern section of Brooklyn called Sunset Park. Besides numerous dining and shopping opportunities, Brooklyn offers a wealth of cultural experiences including exhibits at the Brooklyn Museum of Art and performances at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Urban Glass, the largest international center for artists producing new works in glass is also located in Brooklyn. Manhattan is a short subway ride away.


*Information is printed with permission of Lutheran Medical Center.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.

Maimonides Medical Center

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Address: 4802 10th Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11219
Phone:718-283-6000
Website: www.maimonidesmed.org
Director of Medical Education:
Malcolm R. Rose, MD
Administrator:
Tina Marshall
Phone: 718-283-6528
Fax: 718-283-8239
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/ Gynecology, Surgery, Psychiatry.
Electives Available: Pediatrics, Psychiatry, OB/GYN, Surgery, Otolaryngology, Ophthalmology, Pathology, Radiology, Emergency Medicine, Family Medicine, Anesthesia, Cardiology, Gastroenterology, Infectious Disease, Med. Sub-I, MICU, Neurology and Pulmonary/Critical Care, OB/GYN Sub I, Pediatric Sub I, Psychiatry.
The Hospital -
Maimonides Medical Center is the third-largest independent teaching hospital in the United States. The facility has 705 beds and is affiliated with 70 community- based health care centers. Maimonides boasts over 600 physicians on staff, as well as a highly-skilled nursing and support staff.

Famous Firsts-
First American Human Heart Transplant in 1967.
First Cystectomy for bladder cancer performed by Gilbert Wise, MD, Director of Urology in 1969.
First atherectomy in NYC performed by Jacob Shani, MD in 1991.
First videoscopic saphenous vein harvesting in the Tri-State area in 1997.

General Interest -
Brooklyn, the largest borough of New York City is known for its ethnically diverse neighborhoods that offer a wide range of excellent restaurants, shopping and recreational activities. Points of interest include the Brooklyn Academy of Music, the Brooklyn Botanic Garden and the Brooklyn Museum of Art. Manhattan is easily accessible using mass transportation.

Information taken from www.maimonidesmed.org is printed with permission of Maimonides Medical Center.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.
New York Methodist Hospital

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Address: 506 Sixth Street, Brooklyn, NY 11215
Phone:718-780-3000
Website:www.nym.org
Director of Medical Education:
Stanley Sherbell, MD
Administrator:
Theresa Aberdeen
Phone: 718-780-3284
Fax: 718-780-3287
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered:Medicine, Pediatrics, Obstetrics/ Gynecology and Surgery.
Electives Available: Anesthesiology, Ambulatory/ Primary Care, Cardiology, Emergency Medicine, Gastroenterology, Hematology/ Oncology, Infectious Disease, Medicine Sub I, Surgery, Nephrology, Neurology, Obstetrics/ Gynecology Clinic, Pediatrics, Pulmonary Disease, Radiation Oncology, Radiology, and Endocrine.
The Hospital-
New York Methodist Hospital, a 602-bed voluntary, acute-care teaching facility located in Brooklyn ’s Park Slope, provides services to over 27,000 in-patients each year. An additional 450,000 out-patient visits and specialized services are logged annually. The Hospital, founded in 1881, has undergone extensive renovation and modernization over the years. Through its membership in New York Presbyterian Healthcare, New York Methodist is affiliated with the Weill Medical College of Cornell University and with New York Presbyterian Hospital.

General Interest
New York Methodist Hospital is located in the Park Slope section of Brooklyn, one of the most beautiful Victorian areas of the country and one of the most desirable residential areas of New York City. Park Slope is notable for its tree-lined streets with rows of brownstone houses and for its strong sense of community. Yet, Park Slope is just 15 minutes away from Manhattan. A short ride on the subway connects Slope residents with the financial district, Greenwich Village, the Empire State Building, Broadway, the United Nations, and hundreds of other attractions.

Information taken from www.nym.org is printed with permission of New York Methodist Hospital.

Students are reminded not to phone any hospital directly to arrange their clinical rotations. Please call the Office of Clinical Studies at University Services at 631-665-8500 to set up your rotation schedules.
The Queens Hospital Network,

Elmhurst Hospital Center

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Address:
79-01 Broadway
Rm. H3-135
Elmhurst, New York 11373
Phone: 718-334-4000
Website: http://nyc.gov/html/hhc/qhn/html/ehc.html
Director of Medical Education:
Dr. Tita Castor
Administrator:
Charlene Mulhall
Phone: 718-334-2390
Fax: 718-334-2392’
Email: [email protected]
Rotations Offered: Medicine, Obstetrics/Gynecology, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Surgery
The Hospital:
Elmhurst Hospital Center (EHC) is the major tertiary care provider in the borough of Queens. The hospital is comprised of 525 beds and is a Level I Trauma Center, an Emergency Heart Care Station and a 911 Receiving Hospital. It is the premiere health care organization for key areas such as Surgery, Cardiology, Women's Health, Pediatrics, Rehabilitation Medicine, Renal and Mental Health Services.
Elmhurst Hospital Center utilizes the latest in medical technology to ensure optimal diagnosis and treatment. The hospital also employs some of the finest medical staff in the country, offering our patients a full complement of primary and specialty services.
At EHC you will receive the highest quality care in a newly renovated, state-of-the art facility. It is our longstanding objective to ensure that we provide essential health care services to our patients while maintaining the fabric of our community.



Well..I only see that brooklyn hospital is acgme accredited...I know coney island is not...any one know if the rest are?

 

[Lamborghini1315]

yeah, i feel you on the class size. that was a huge turn off for me as well. i, personally, learn more in a smaller environment/class.

but in SGU's defense, that 500 is broken down to 2 categories (350 grenada and 150 UK?). again, for those who want that "MD"... if they want it that badly, go for it!

as much as have defended SGU and perhaps even PROMOTED the school on this thread... i chose DO b/c i personally dont care much about the 2 letters. so GA PCOM here i come!

after all is said and done, weigh your OPTIONS... make a mental list of the PROs and CONs to both routes (SGU vs DO). and make a careful choice. for me, it was ga pcom.

for the avg premed student the pros and cons look something similiar to this:
PRO SGU- "MD" degree, caribbean experience
CON SGU- money, caribbean experience, hassle (exchange currency, flying, new country, etc)

PRO DO- more options available for residencies (b/c u have both allopathic and osteopathic), the comfort of staying in the US, in the eyes of your future peers (doctors) MD = DO
CON DO- "its not exactly a MD" and old farts or ignorant premed students may think less of you.

my situation was a little different. 1) i dont care too much about the 2 degrees; 2) my DO school is only 10 mins away from my house (so no HOUSING necessary... i like to pretend that i won a free HOUSING scholarship); 3) ive been all over the world including caribbean (ok, so i havent been to Africa or Antartica... but give me a break) so i dont think/feel that im missing out on anything. i personally dont want the caribbean experience. and since I dont care much about the 2 letters, i feel that PCOM is a better offer for me. plus, i have a feeling ill get more financial aid here than for SGU.

not sure if all of that made any sense... its almost 5 AM here and im too tired to proofread or double check my writing. peace!

Foreign MD is not equal to American MD or DO. So your suggestion to go to carribean for an MD is wrong..please if you want to be an allopath work hard retake MCATs and apply to a good MD school here. If you are desperate to be a physician then go to carribean..not to simply prove that you have a 2 letter initial MD after your name, that's lame.

 

[JaggerPlate]

DO > Carib MD.



Thread locked.

 

[AngryBaby]

the amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering

 

[Syncope82]

the amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering

what is so misinformation about US md > US do > Carib MD 😕

 

[AngryBaby]

what is so misinformation about US md > US do > Carib MD 😕

did you black out during the rest of your posts? 🙄

 

[Syncope82]

did you black out during the rest of your posts? 🙄

instead of saying vague statements and being a general smarty...why don't you tell me what is misinformation? 🙄

 

[Syncope82]

I strongly suggest that you (not necessarily YOU Syncope, but premeds in general) interview at SGU so you can ask all the right questions and be well-informed. then make a decision based on all the facts b/c there are so many rumors going around. most of them is due to the "shady" caribbean schools that accept students w/o a MCAT score.

I don't think I need to interview there to get my questions answered. However, I did attend 2 open houses they had and many of my questions were answered. I do believe SGU is the best caribbean school and no one refutes that.

I am in the same boat as you, i don't care if I have an MD or DO after my name, as long as I get to become a physican and have all my doors open...by attending a caribb school, many doors are automatically shut from the onset, such as state restrictions, the issues with being able to get all acgme certified rotations, last pick at residencies and having to score much better than your US allo counterpart for the same residencies, etc.

 

[AngryBaby]

You just gave me a name of a state....again...which hospitals? it could mean they are crap...are the even acgme certified? are they teaching hospitals? until i see proof...I still dont believe it

SGU is accepting 400-500 students per semester (and they have 2 incoming semesters per year)...so that is ~1000 new med students a year

They recently made this change and the first class with the new increase in class size has not hit rotations yet. When they do, it will be a disaster. Why? because SGU hasn't done anything to secure larger clinical rotation spots so there will be a huge bottleneck...similar to what Ross has going on

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/news-events/news-archives07-HHC.html

not a diploma mill? taking in 500 students per semester, when you know only ~60% will graduate successfully is greedy...instead of focusing on the making sure the current students will succeed, they just admit more to make sure their numbers are filled..😎

I'm sorry but what was that you were saying about evidence?

all US students get first pick on residencies and the leftovers are passed to FMG's. I heard something along the lines that you have to have a USMLE score 20 pts higher than the average per specialty in order for a FMG to compete "fairly" with a US student

No. While I/FMGs must generally score higher on their boards/rotations to be competitive with US allo grads they don't merely get the leftovers.
http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/ResidPost.nsf/bypgy?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

anesthesiology at Rush, surgery at USC, psychiatry at Beth Israel, peds and internal med at Cleveland Clinic. I could go on but you get the point. These are not programs that have empty spots. You think a US grad with a 190-210 is more competitive than an IMG with a 240 and all else being roughly equal? Now certainly the IMG must have better clinical grades/board scores to compete with the US allos and most osteos, but PDs won't take the bottom of the barrel of US grads and pass over a 240 IMG. Ask around.

I changed my reply to reflect the 2 new incoming semesters. That was my mistake and i apologize

in regards to securing new rotations sites....are they acgme approved? where's the proof? what sites?

I hope you know what you're talking about in regards to $100 million dollars in new sites and can provide proof...?

see above

I was not blatently spreading rumors..I am just telling it like it is

not quite

 

[AngryBaby]

I'm not interested in flaming or chest-thumping or silly internet fights. That is only a sampling of the incorrect info on the thread.

Some of it is accurate, however. The most important of which said that FMGs face a stigma, especially during the match. FMGs will have to score better, have better clinical grades, and generally be a smarter/more hardworking student to match in the same spot as a US grad. That's a generalization, but generally true 🙂.

I've found some PDs say that osteos are not as well regarded as IMGs and vice versa. I couldn't honestly quantify who has it "worse" in this regard. At this point I don't really care either. I won't care if I work with a DO, USIMG or FMG and I'll go on a limb and say most of you won't either when you get there (I'm not there yet, either).

Couldn't hold my tongue on this thread. Once out of 100 or so isn't bad...

 

[AngryBaby]

almost forgot about that pesky little green-book question.

Jamaica Hospital
http://www.jamaicahospital.org/pages/education/residency/internal_med_res.htm
THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS
Where Training in Primary Care and In-Patient Care
go Hand-In Hand

The New York State Council on Graduate Medical Education has approved our program as a Designated Priority Program for training Internist in Primary Care Medicine. We are fully accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education as a Categorical Internal Medicine Residency Program. The programs pass rate and the average scores on the Internal Medicine Board Examination continue to be significantly above the national average.


Maimonides
http://www.maimonidesmed.org/professional_layout.cfm?id=297
About Us
The Office of Academic Affairs is the central administrative office that coordinates all graduate medical education (GME) activities for the 24 residency programs, as well as all medical student clerkships at Maimonides Medical Center. The primary mission of the office is to ensure that all programs maintain a high standard of education and full accreditation by the Accreditation Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or, for our osteopathic programs, by the American Osteopathic Association


All SGU's rotations are green book which is one of the reasons it's as well-regarded as it is and that it's graduates have the success they have in the match. Again, this could go on ad nauseum. I'm sure you can check out the rest if you still feel the need to.

 

[gasapple]

I've found some PDs say that osteos are not as well regarded as IMGs and vice versa.

I've discovered that it's commonplace to respond with the remark "I know someone who knows something" which is simply an attempt to legitimize an opinion in lieu of the truth.

Speaking of, I know a PD who gives FMGs from SGU swirlies whenever possible while all the US grads observe the event with general amusement!

ValueMD misses you...

 

[gasapple]

DO > Carib MD.



Thread locked.

LMAO Jagger.

Thread moved to SDN "Caribbean" forum. Better yet, thread exported to ValueMD. 👍

 

[Syncope82]

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/news-events/news-archives07-HHC.html



I'm sorry but what was that you were saying about evidence?



No. While I/FMGs must generally score higher on their boards/rotations to be competitive with US allo grads they don't merely get the leftovers.
http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/ResidPost.nsf/bypgy?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

anesthesiology at Rush, surgery at USC, psychiatry at Beth Israel, peds and internal med at Cleveland Clinic. I could go on but you get the point. These are not programs that have empty spots. You think a US grad with a 190-210 is more competitive than an IMG with a 240 and all else being roughly equal? Now certainly the IMG must have better clinical grades/board scores to compete with the US allos and most osteos, but PDs won't take the bottom of the barrel of US grads and pass over a 240 IMG. Ask around.


see above


not quite

that's not the point. The point is the spots are taken up by US MD's and DO's. Then whatever is left is a gamble for FMG/IMG's. Thank you for the evidence 🙂

I'm not interested in flaming or chest-thumping or silly internet fights. That is only a sampling of the incorrect info on the thread.

Some of it is accurate, however. The most important of which said that FMGs face a stigma, especially during the match. FMGs will have to score better, have better clinical grades, and generally be a smarter/more hardworking student to match in the same spot as a US grad. That's a generalization, but generally true 🙂.

I've found some PDs say that osteos are not as well regarded as IMGs and vice versa. I couldn't honestly quantify who has it "worse" in this regard. At this point I don't really care either. I won't care if I work with a DO, USIMG or FMG and I'll go on a limb and say most of you won't either when you get there (I'm not there yet, either).

Couldn't hold my tongue on this thread. Once out of 100 or so isn't bad...

not interested in flaming either. the op asked a legit question, so the pro's and con's must come out of both sides

almost forgot about that pesky little green-book question.

Jamaica Hospital
http://www.jamaicahospital.org/pages/education/residency/internal_med_res.htm
THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS
Where Training in Primary Care and In-Patient Care
go Hand-In Hand

The New York State Council on Graduate Medical Education has approved our program as a Designated Priority Program for training Internist in Primary Care Medicine. We are fully accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education as a Categorical Internal Medicine Residency Program. The programs pass rate and the average scores on the Internal Medicine Board Examination continue to be significantly above the national average.


Maimonides
http://www.maimonidesmed.org/professional_layout.cfm?id=297
About Us
The Office of Academic Affairs is the central administrative office that coordinates all graduate medical education (GME) activities for the 24 residency programs, as well as all medical student clerkships at Maimonides Medical Center. The primary mission of the office is to ensure that all programs maintain a high standard of education and full accreditation by the Accreditation Council on Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or, for our osteopathic programs, by the American Osteopathic Association


All SGU's rotations are green book which is one of the reasons it's as well-regarded as it is and that it's graduates have the success they have in the match. Again, this could go on ad nauseum. I'm sure you can check out the rest if you still feel the need to.

Yep, I know all of SGU rotations are greebook, prior to this new update. I'm glad to hear they kept up with their standard. this is probably the primary reason why SGU is easily the best compared to any other Carib school

but the simple fact is, US DO is the way to go over Caribbean MD...that is if you don't care what is behind your name

 

[JaggerPlate]

LMAO Jagger.

Thread moved to SDN "Caribbean" forum. Better yet, thread exported to ValueMD. 👍

I figure if I keep trying as hard as I can to lock threads ... one day I will magically be able to👍

 

[prionsRbad]

I figure if I keep trying as hard as I can to lock threads ... one day I will magically be able to👍

I'm going to start trying that too!

 

[AngryBaby]

I've discovered that it's commonplace to respond with the remark "I know someone who knows something" which is simply an attempt to legitimize an opinion in lieu of the truth.

Speaking of, I know a PD who gives FMGs from SGU swirlies whenever possible while all the US grads observe the event with general amusement!

ValueMD misses you...

yeah that was anecdotal experience mixed in with actual evidence. No way to really get a transcript of my conversations with PDs. Of course I'm sure you've already done this research yourself before making your decision...

that's not the point. The point is the spots are taken up by US MD's and DO's. Then whatever is left is a gamble for FMG/IMG's. Thank you for the evidence 🙂

your earlier point was that F/IMG's only get leftovers. My example clearly shows SGU grads obtaining residencies that would certainly not go unfilled if the SGU students weren't applying there. Therefore your "leftover" claim clearly is untrue.

Yep, I know all of SGU rotations are greebook, prior to this new update. I'm glad to hear they kept up with their standard. this is probably the primary reason why SGU is easily the best compared to any other Carib school

No you did not know this because you very plainly asked if anyone knew whether or not SGU's rotations were ACGME accredited and actually said you "knew" Coney Island was not. The issue was not rotations prior to the huge HHC contract (though those were all green book as well).

but the simple fact is, US DO is the way to go over Caribbean MD...that is if you don't care what is behind your name

A vast oversimplification. There are too many individual issues to say 1 is better than the other with certainty. Both have their unique and distinct positives and negatives when compared to one another. My big problems were the AOA, the schism in osteopathy regarding is it the same/different that allopathic medicine (I interviewed at a DO school and sat for 2 interviews there. The first doc told me how different the DOs are and the second one said there was no difference. wha??), their approach to OMM in general and cranial manipulation in particular, and the licensing issues with the initial internship year in GME.

Those were my issues and I'd be mistaken to impress my personal misgivings upon all of you and so make my decision for all of you. Obviously going DO has a lot of pros over offshore as well. US grad, living arrangements, etc.

I've got no problem with you guys having opinions, but to state them as fact is, of course, a mistake.

 

[Syncope82]

your earlier point was that F/IMG's only get leftovers. My example clearly shows SGU grads obtaining residencies that would certainly not go unfilled if the SGU students weren't applying there. Therefore your "leftover" claim clearly is untrue.




No you did not know this because you very plainly asked if anyone knew whether or not SGU's rotations were ACGME accredited and actually said you "knew" Coney Island was not. The issue was not rotations prior to the huge HHC contract (though those were all green book as well).

Sorry, but SGU does get the leftovers, that is how the match process works. Whether certain spots are left for SGU is besides the point. FMG's have the last pick no matter how nicely you try to put it

I asked if anyone else knew if the rest of the hospitals on the list where greenbook...try reading the post again for clarification

So, coney island is not greenbook....you can't just say a whole rotation site is greenbook...it is only greenbook in certain fields....so that is a big lie from SGU...yes all of their sites are greenbook sites, but not all the rotations within the site are greenbook..makes sense?

obviously there are pro's and con's to each choice, but choosing DO over FMD is a no brainer..

im not sure why you chose to go SGU intead of US DO...but you are definitely going to face many, many more hurdles than DO students and face many, many more uncertainties......then there's even the possibility that you won't match at all...the sound of that freaks me out

I actually work for an underwriting company where they hire medical professionals...there are over 6 MD's here, who are caribb grads, but they can't match in a residency...after spending ~200k on a medical education, I would want to make sure every single road is open for me...whether DO or MD

 

[gasapple]

Of course I'm sure you've already done this research yourself before making your decision....

You bet your *** I did the research; it all occurred somewhere after the allo waitlists and before the DO acceptances.

I've got no problem with you guys having opinions, but to state them as fact is, of course, a mistake.

Oh the hypocrisy...

 

[AngryBaby]

OK I'm beginning to tire of the simplistic arguments so let's see how this goes.

Sorry, but SGU does get the leftovers, that is how the match process works. Whether certain spots are left for SGU is besides the point. FMG's have the last pick no matter how nicely you try to put it

I don't know how else to put this. Rush, Cleveland Clinic, etc are not going to have residency slots go unfilled. If the SGU grads weren't in those spots certainly US grads would be. Because we can clearly assume that those 2 programs in particular will go filled every year then we can logically assume that the SGU grads were picked instead of US grads for those slots. I don't understand why you're having difficulty understanding that. Do you believe that if it wasn't for the SGU grads in those slots that Cleveland Clinic and Rush would not be able to fill them???

I asked if anyone else knew if the rest of the hospitals on the list where greenbook...try reading the post again for clarification

So, coney island is not greenbook....you can't just say a whole rotation site is greenbook...it is only greenbook in certain fields....so that is a big lie from SGU...yes all of their sites are greenbook sites, but not all the rotations within the site are greenbook..makes sense?

Of course. I never said the hospital's entire GME program was ACGME accredited, just the rotations that SGU students take there. I haven't looked into whether or not entire hospitals are green book but it doesn't matter unless you're doing all your rotations there. As with all offshore school which I know of many students do different rotations at different hospitals thus ensuring every rotation is green book. BTW this is a problem for some of you osteopaths as well as not all osteopathic rotations are green book. That's in addition to the potential problem DO's face with their intern year just after graduating. Additionally SGU also has a handful of hospitals where all core rotations are ACGME accredited and thus can be done in one place w/out changing hospitals, moving, etc.

obviously there are pro's and con's to each choice, but choosing DO over FMD is a no brainer..

You keep saying that despite an absolute dearth of evidence to back up your claims. You haven't shown anything that backs up this claim. As I said above this is a vast oversimplification and if you can't see/understand that then that's an issue you should try to rectify it, in all honesty. This is a personal question not a slam dunk if you've done your research.

im not sure why you chose to go SGU intead of US DO...but you are definitely going to face many, many more hurdles than DO students and face many, many more uncertainties......then there's even the possibility that you won't match at all...the sound of that freaks me out

I actually work for an underwriting company where they hire medical professionals...there are over 6 MD's here, who are caribb grads, but they can't match in a residency...after spending ~200k on a medical education, I would want to make sure every single road is open for me...whether DO or MD

Let me know what Caribbean school they went to. Or how about their board scores. Are you aware how many Caribbean schools there are? Are you then aware of the vast difference in quality once you get outside the so-called big 4 (SGU, AUC, SABA, Ross)? And just to make sure I'm being crystal clear here; I have no problem with DO's. I have no problem with people picking DO over offshore MD or even USMD and I'm certainly not saying a Caribbean MD is better than DO. I am saying that the information you guys are spewing into this thread shows a thorough lack of knowledge.

 

[AngryBaby]

Oh the hypocrisy...

Well show me the hypocrisy then we can talk

 

[Syncope82]

OK I'm beginning to tire of the simplistic arguments so let's see how this goes.

I don't know how else to put this. Rush, Cleveland Clinic, etc are not going to have residency slots go unfilled. If the SGU grads weren't in those spots certainly US grads would be. Because we can clearly assume that those 2 programs in particular will go filled every year then we can logically assume that the SGU grads were picked instead of US grads for those slots. I don't understand why you're having difficulty understanding that. Do you believe that if it wasn't for the SGU grads in those slots that Cleveland Clinic and Rush would not be able to fill them???

There are certain programs that only tailor directly to caribbean grads, many of these programs also exists in WI....

they have certain quotas they fill. It could be because their director is a caribb grad with more sympathy towards them...or it has to do with some financial arrangement..

BTW this is a problem for some of you osteopaths as well as not all osteopathic rotations are green book.

you're kidding, right? we don't have to worry about that at all.....DO's have the liberty to either do ACGME allopathic rotations for electives and all core rotations are set up at AOA approved rotation sites.....state licensure rules do not differentiate between the 2 for osteopathic graduates, however, they do for FMG's

 

[AngryBaby]

Well I'll give you credit for being on the ball with the replies.

There are certain programs that only tailor directly to caribbean grads, many of these programs also exists in WI....

they have certain quotas they fill. It could be because their director is a caribb grad with more sympathy towards them...or it has to do with some financial arrangement..

Syncope you're way off-base with this. If you think those programs I cited above have these sort of "arrangements" then you are mistaken.

you're kidding, right? we don't have to worry about that at all.....DO's have the liberty to either do ACGME allopathic rotations for electives and all core rotations are set up at AOA approved rotation sites.....state licensure rules do not differentiate between the 2 for osteopathic graduates, however, they do for FMG's

You are correct. To borrow a term from The Rocket, I misremembered (me and Pettite both I guess). The problem was with osteopathic residencies, not rotations. My apologies.

Well I think we've pretty much at this point and I've got a ton of work to do so I'll leave you be. If you guys still think this is an open/shut case then that's too bad, but at least this thread will come up on a search of the topic. Of course that is if they actually perform the search...

 

[Syncope82]

Well I'll give you credit for being on the ball with the replies.

Syncope you're way off-base with this. If you think those programs I cited above have these sort of "arrangements" then you are mistaken.



You are correct, I misspoke. The problem was with osteopathic residencies, not rotations. My apologies.

Well I think we've pretty much at this point and I've got a ton of work to do so I'll leave you be. If you guys still think this is an open/shut case then that's too bad, but at least this thread will come up on a search of the topic. Of course that is if they actually perform the search...

Thanks for the debate...at least a potential applicant can see both sides of the issue...we've definitily have beat that cow/horse dead 😉

 

[gasapple]

Well show me the hypocrisy then we can talk

The hypocrisy to which I was referring is you stating your opinion, specifically with regard to overall PD perspectives, as fact. I guess you just intended it to be a generalization...or perhaps something you hoped would feebly support your difference of perspective. Hell, maybe it was just "curtain-raiser" showing a great big nothing new. Regardless, I'll let you skirt this one. 🙂

I can say that I'm glad we now understand the difference between residencies and rotations.

You're right, the ship has sailed in the debate between you and Syncope.

The score is as stands:
Syncope82 : 3
AngryBaby : 0 & pwnt

I think the original point of contention still stands and for a variety of reasons: DO/MD>>>> FMD

Otherwise, I know some great FMGs who are upstanding physicians but the road does indeed appear to be more difficult.

 

[gasapple]

Thanks for the debate...at least a potential applicant can see both sides of the issue...we've definitily have beat that cow/horse dead 😉

Hahaha, Syncope! I believe the expression is "to beat a dead horse". I've yet to hear cow used instead. 👍