SGU or DO

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StriveToBeDr

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SGU is regarded the best MD school outside the USA and Canada in North America. If you are accepted to a middle rank (eg. NOVA) or low ranked (LMU, since it is new), which one would you choose and why?

USMLE step 1 passing rate for SGU has been 95% for the first attempt.
 
Caribbean vs. USA

It is that simple. Always always always choose the US medical school whether it be any allopathic or osteopathic school before you decide to go abroad. SGU is still a caribbean school no matter how you want to slice it.
 
Yea, I agree with sexyman. Also, I do not see what is wrong with NSU or LMU. I have heard so many great things about LMU, and I can personally vouch for NSU (even though I chose LECOM-B over it). If you really want to go to the Carribbean for studying, then I wish you luck with your entrance exams to the United States.
 
I think the "ranking" system here on SDN among DO schools (and a large number of MD) is complete BS. The opportunities at the branch campuses and newer schools are unproven but in no way indicate that they will provide a poor education. It's easy for the cheerleaders at the more established schools to come here and insist on a tiered system. It's all self-gratifying and as it's been said, it's more about the individual and his/her own path where opportunities exist.

No matter what, someone will find something negative about the school YOU choose to attend (new, established, Ivy league, foreign), but pay no heed, make your choice and don't look back. Blaze a few trails.

To answer the OP question, any DO school on US soil would be my choice although there's nothing wrong with SGU. The elitists here will suggest otherwise. However, the path can be more rigorous and more "prejudiced" for FMGs - this prejudice can easily be overcome with stats and connections. Another thing, US DO/MD grads will land more residency spots than FMGs and the squeeze is on with increasing physician ranks here stateside.
 
I agree, especially since the foreign medical graduate exams are a killer. I was told they are harder than the USMLE. I always thought it would suck if I went abroad, paid the ridiculous tuition costs (remember SGU charges for 5 years of tuition, not 4 yrs.), and then couldn't practice medicine in the states because of the FMGE.
 
I hesitate to recommend an Osteopathic school if it's used only as a backup to US Allopathic programs. However, If you are interested in OMM and don't care about the initials, I would urge you to stay in the country and attend a DO school. You will get a solid education in both situations, but you'll have less hoops to jump through as a DO along with an easier time during rotations. The only benefit I can attribute to SGU is that you'll have to take fewer board exams, if you decide on pursuing a competitive residency.
 
gasapple said:
I think the "ranking" system here on SDN among DO schools (and a large number of MD) is complete BS. The opportunities at the branch campuses and newer schools are unproven but in no way indicate that they will provide a poor education. It's easy for the cheerleaders at the more established schools to come here and insist on a tiered system. It's all self-gratifying and as it's been said, it's more about the individual and his/her own path where opportunities exist.
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I agree. My mentor, who is a DO Surgeon (from DMU) that did his residency and fellowship at allopathic schools(Mt. Sinai and Yale), said the exact same thing. The doc said if you go the DO route, there's no school that is known to be prestigious; they're all the same. There is no established rank like MD schools. Therefore, it's really up to the individual more than where one goes to school. He said to just go to the cheapest school you get into, rather than thinking one DO school is better than another.
 
udsoccer7 said:
I agree, especially since the foreign medical graduate exams are a killer. I was told they are harder than the USMLE. I always thought it would suck if I went abroad, paid the ridiculous tuition costs (remember SGU charges for 5 years of tuition, not 4 yrs.), and then couldn't practice medicine in the states because of the FMGE.
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There's no such thing as the FMGE anymore, FMG/IMGs just take the USMLE. As for choosing between SGU or DO, they'll both allow you to pursue your goals as a physician in the US if you work hard. I think the pro's & con's are overblown. It comes down to personal preference: Are you comfortable living abroad? Do you mind being DO vs. MD? etc.
 
I can't think of anything that would be a bigger pain in the ass than moving to grenada for medical school.

Your opportunities will likely be better in the states, and your classmates will mostly be smarter.
 
StriveToBeDr said:
SGU is regarded the best MD school outside the USA and Canada in North America. If you are accepted to a middle rank (eg. NOVA) or low ranked (LMU, since it is new), which one would you choose and why?
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There's no real ranking between US medical schools, if you are going to become a clinician. I wouldn't put too much stock in those so-called rankings. Any US medical school is going to offer better stability and essentially guarantee some sort of residency out of school. I'm not sure I can say the same for Caribbean medical schools. If that's your only shot, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd stick to US medical programs.

USMLE step 1 passing rate for SGU has been 95% for the first attempt.
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Well, two things:

1) If that's indeed a true statistic, it represents those who made it that far. There's a much higher drop-out/fail-out rate at Caribbean medical schools.

2) Okay, they passed. What's the average score? A-ha. That's important.

I think it will be harder and there will be fewer guarantees at a Caribbean medical school.
 
Has anyone ever thought of going to med school in Mexico and transfer to a US school after 2 years? I met a plastic surgeon who said many people are doing this and that Mexican schools are excellent while Carrib schools are "crap."
 
StriveToBeDr said:
SGU is regarded the best MD school outside the USA and Canada in North America. If you are accepted to a middle rank (eg. NOVA) or low ranked (LMU, since it is new), which one would you choose and why?

USMLE step 1 passing rate for SGU has been 95% for the first attempt.
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Honestly ... don't trust numbers you get from SGU. They do certain things like holding students back from not taking Step 1, doing a full blown practice test before the actual thing, and releasing match lists that just aren't right (I've gotten this info from allo students, not DOs just fyi - I'm not going to claim it's accurate, it's just what I've heard from NUMEROUS sources). SGU also has like a 30% drop out rate in the first two years and bottom line ... you're leaving the US for your medical education. Does that make any sense?? US medical school vs Carib medical school, you decide.
 
DangQ3 said:
Has anyone ever thought of going to med school in Mexico and transfer to a US school after 2 years? I met a plastic surgeon who said many people are doing this and that Mexican schools are excellent while Carrib schools are "crap."
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I really doubt Mexican med schools are 'excellent' (though I've heard some South American ones are alright) ... and as far as transferring one med school to another, It's my impression that it's basically impossible/shady.
 
If you goto an actually university somewhere in the world, and not the Caribbean schools that cater to the US, you'll likely have more support. The downside is that they don't teach towards the USMLE, so you'll have to study on your own.

It's the difference between University of West Indies (a very prestigious school) and your offshore Caribbean school.
 
If I wanted to practice outside the U.S., I would probably choose SGU. My friend is actually making this decision as well (she wants to practice in India).
 
Jpc984 said:
If I wanted to practice outside the U.S., I would probably choose SGU. My friend is actually making this decision as well (she wants to practice in India).
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I think there are ways around that, you don't need an 'MD' to practice in India.
 
If you have strong reservations about DO then just go carib.... otherwise you'll probably always be asking yourself "what if".

That said, I was totally fine with going DO.....didn't really matter to me one way or the other, I just wanted to be a physician, and if I get to learn manipulation, that's just gravy.

I could NOT IMAGINE having to move out of the country for med school. And at that dealing with rotations and possibly having to go back and forth. Plus I'm married and no way would I drag my wife around like that.
 
I still do not understand why there is so much hesitation to be a "DO," but that's me. If you want to be a physician and you want to learn medicine in the US, then be a DO. However, if you are so dead set on having the MD title after your name, then go Carib. Up to you.
 
nlax30 said:
If you have strong reservations about DO then just go carib.... otherwise you'll probably always be asking yourself "what if".

That said, I was totally fine with going DO.....didn't really matter to me one way or the other, I just wanted to be a physician, and if I get to learn manipulation, that's just gravy.

I could NOT IMAGINE having to move out of the country for med school. And at that dealing with rotations and possibly having to go back and forth. Plus I'm married and no way would I drag my wife around like that.
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I am sure your wife wouldn't mind a four year vacation... haha. I agree with you though.
 
Jpc984 said:
I am sure your wife wouldn't mind a four year vacation... haha. I agree with you though.
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LOL, yeah. Actually, our honeymoon was an eastern carrib. cruise..... great to visit these places, would I ever want to live there, no way.......unless I had a mansion with a lot of land on the beach secluded from everything, and everyone else on the islands.
 
DangQ3 said:
Has anyone ever thought of going to med school in Mexico and transfer to a US school after 2 years? I met a plastic surgeon who said many people are doing this and that Mexican schools are excellent while Carrib schools are "crap."
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i live in guadadalajara now...teaching english. I didn't apply..but many of my friends go to UAG...they seem to enjoy it..and they get a lottttt of clinical exposure from the start..and many plan to transfer. Plus they all end up bi lingual. Which is also cool. Just a thought.
 
personal example here...I chose carib MD over US DO school, and I have NO REGRETS whatsoever..did my thing..took the boards..ROCKED it..and now applying to competitive residencies. The question is what is best for you????
dont go by statistics, or what pre-med person X said...go by what you think. Look, the carib produces mass amounts of docs, its been done before, so you are nothing special. All I can say is I am one example where i am dam glad i chose carib MD over US DO....and im applying to competitive university programs for residency...its all whats best for you
 
DangQ3 said:
Has anyone ever thought of going to med school in Mexico and transfer to a US school after 2 years? I met a plastic surgeon who said many people are doing this and that Mexican schools are excellent while Carrib schools are "crap."
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I believe you are referring to the "Fifth Pathway". I have actually heard ok things about mexican medical schools, but unlike carribean schools you WILL be speaking spanish. They may teach the first year or so in english, but there is a point where you transition to all spanish. It isn't really a "transfer" per se with the md schools. You go to New york medical college usually and jump through a bunch of hoops with them. You are actually awarded a different degree than md and do, but it usually gets converted to an MD at some point...I think that is the summary of it. I haven't read over the stuff for a while.
 
MossPoh said:
I believe you are referring to the "Fifth Pathway". I have actually heard ok things about mexican medical schools, but unlike carribean schools you WILL be speaking spanish. They may teach the first year or so in english, but there is a point where you transition to all spanish. It isn't really a "transfer" per se with the md schools. You go to New york medical college usually and jump through a bunch of hoops with them. You are actually awarded a different degree than md and do, but it usually gets converted to an MD at some point...I think that is the summary of it. I haven't read over the stuff for a while.
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I don't understand why anyone would do that when you could be really awesome and go to a DO school. 😀
 
polycythemia said:
personal example here...I chose carib MD over US DO school, and I have NO REGRETS whatsoever..did my thing..took the boards..ROCKED it..and now applying to competitive residencies. The question is what is best for you????
dont go by statistics, or what pre-med person X said...go by what you think. Look, the carib produces mass amounts of docs, its been done before, so you are nothing special. All I can say is I am one example where i am dam glad i chose carib MD over US DO....and im applying to competitive university programs for residency...its all whats best for you
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ROFLMAO ... this is by far the worst fake post I have ever seen on SDN. Bravo ... bravo.


And to Lucas ... I don't understand the reservation to being a DO thing either. Given I'm not even in med school yet, but as of right now I love the idea of being a DO.
 
not a fake poster at all....thats the problem with pre-meds.....anyways i would like to practice abroad because I have family abroad on two different continents each of which is my uncle who works for a hospital in those countries...its all personal preference..whats so fake..that i went to a carib school, that i am applying to competitive residency, that i rocked my boards? ..i even rotated with DO students at a few core rotations a few months ago and a 2 students told me if they could do it all over again, they would have gone the allopathic route..like i said its all personal preference.
I say there is nothing wrong with DO or any degree, but when you say im making up stuff it is somewhat disheartening, because i worked my tail off.
 
EEL08 said:
I don't understand why anyone would do that when you could be really awesome and go to a DO school. 😀
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There is reasoning behind it. It started in puerto rico at Ponce I think. When it started up in the early 70s DO schools were still considered iffy at best. It was also an avenue for IMGs to practice in the US without all the hoops of the IMG stuff. Its odd, and not many people know of it. It is a good way to make some solid connections, especially since NYMC has solid affiliations with a ton of programs. I rather just do the DO as well. Do the DO..how about that play on words? Oh snap!
 
Let's not get too excited about this. Yes, it is possible and not necessarily even uncommon to do well (whatever "well" means for each person individually) having attended a Caribbean medical school. Medical school, above all else, is an individual journey and as such a lot rests on the individual. Therefore, I would expect individual aspects to matter more than what school one attended. However, that being said, I think the general consensus is that it is safer to attend a US medical school. The attrition rates are pretty high at Caribbean medical schools and many would consider it challenging to move to a foreign island for school. Also, while there are notable exceptions, such as with SGU, the quality of Caribbean medical schools is variable. While it is indeed possible to match well as a Caribbean medical graduate, the match rates are generally a bit lower. This doesn't mean you can't get what you want, you just might have a bit of a harder time, especially with more competitive programs. Again, this is a highly individualistic journey. If you rock, you rock. However, if you are at a US medical program and you don't rock, you are probably still going to match somewhere. Competitive programs are hard for everyone, though, regardless of where you went to school.
 
surferdoc said:
i live in guadadalajara now...teaching english. I didn't apply..but many of my friends go to UAG...they seem to enjoy it..and they get a lottttt of clinical exposure from the start..and many plan to transfer. Plus they all end up bi lingual. Which is also cool. Just a thought.
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Honestly? I would rather not have to learn another language and all its nuances while in medical school on top of everything else that I am going to have to do. Plus, try to find places to rotate at. And get ready for residency. Oh and boards. And worrying about if I am going to be looked at differently because of where I went to school for residency. And if I will be able to find a job where I want to since I will be an IMG. Im sure its been done, but no way, Jose. Not for me. Im happy right here in East TN. 🙂


Just some tired, no-more-school-til-August pre-med thoughts.
 
Rose...#1..Im not going that pathway. But #2, spanish is an extremely important language to know as a physician. I speak fluent spanish and working in my doctors office, I have found myself speaking spanish about half of the time. In the hospital I worked as a translator, because there were many doctors that didnt speak spanish who had patients who didnt speak english. (i guess it depends on where you live too) Its not for everyone..and it is additional stress I guess...having to learn the language..but if youre living there, you kind of learn it without even realizing. Anyway, from what I observed..its a good school and produces good doctors who have the advantage of speaking Spanish. But for me, even though I love mexico...Ill be staying in the US for med school. I dont even know where this topic came from haha
 
packitinstan said:
I hesitate to recommend an Osteopathic school if it's used only as a backup to US Allopathic programs. However, If you are interested in OMM and don't care about the initials, I would urge you to stay in the country and attend a DO school. You will get a solid education in both situations, but you'll have less hoops to jump through as a DO along with an easier time during rotations. The only benefit I can attribute to SGU is that you'll have to take fewer board exams, if you decide on pursuing a competitive residency.
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i don't really agree with this attitude. Maybe it's because I came from an interview today at a DO school and out of the 5 of us that were asked, I was the only one who had even shadowed a DO or even seen/knew about OMM. DO =/= MD. Are they equal? yes they can be, and I understand as we further our clinical experiences the lines become even more blurred, but there is a reason why DO's broke off to begin with, a pretty strong fundamental difference in my understanding. Ugh, end rant.

surferdoc said:
i live in guadadalajara now...teaching english. I didn't apply..but many of my friends go to UAG...they seem to enjoy it..and they get a lottttt of clinical exposure from the start..and many plan to transfer. Plus they all end up bi lingual. Which is also cool. Just a thought.
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I heard the same about UAG, supposed to be a killer medical school.
 
rose351 said:
Honestly? I would rather not have to learn another language and all its nuances while in medical school on top of everything else that I am going to have to do. Plus, try to find places to rotate at. And get ready for residency. Oh and boards. And worrying about if I am going to be looked at differently because of where I went to school for residency. And if I will be able to find a job where I want to since I will be an IMG. Im sure its been done, but no way, Jose. Not for me. Im happy right here in East TN. 🙂


Just some tired, no-more-school-til-August pre-med thoughts.
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I mean, I'm DO all the way, I always have been, but this is a bit much...

you don't have to learn any second languages to go to the carribbean. SABA, Ross, SGU, AUA, AUC, st. matthews, wherever - the professors are usually taken from the U.S - and pretty much everyone in school there is from the states. I have dozens of friends in the carribbean and none of them had to learn a foreign language. Clinical rotations for most schools are already set up - i know Ross brings its students to Miami for the last 2 years of rotations - and all the schools prepare you for the USMLE.
yes, the failure rate is higher than it is here, but its only bc their admissions standards ARE lower, so a lot of kids who DONT belong in med school end up in med school. regardless of where its at, med school curriculum is med school curriculum, and as spicedmanna says, if you rock, you will rock anywhere.

a carrib school education wont hold you back from being a good doctor or getting a good residency, it will just be a bit tougher. as far as being looked at differently for where you went to medical school - my dad is a succesfull anesthesiologist with a foreign degree, and he isn't looked at any different. people who judge u on things like that will probably judge you for being a D.O as well.
 
polycythemia said:
not a fake poster at all....thats the problem with pre-meds.....anyways i would like to practice abroad because I have family abroad on two different continents each of which is my uncle who works for a hospital in those countries...its all personal preference..whats so fake..that i went to a carib school, that i am applying to competitive residency, that i rocked my boards? ..i even rotated with DO students at a few core rotations a few months ago and a 2 students told me if they could do it all over again, they would have gone the allopathic route..like i said its all personal preference.
I say there is nothing wrong with DO or any degree, but when you say im making up stuff it is somewhat disheartening, because i worked my tail off.
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Oh ... well if you have six posts, and YOU say it's not fake over the interweb ... I've really got nothing to say. I mean clearly due to your rockage of boards and your quest for 'competitive residencies' ... you're legit. So how did you do on your USMLE? What year did you graduate? What specialities are you thinking about going into? Where did you rotate?

Even if you are being serious, too many people just create a username to chime in on threads like this ... sorry for being unsure, SDN has made me jaded.
 
I'm sure Hulk will just send his kid to total his car in Tex's house.
 
For some reason, I have the sudden desire to tear my shirt in half.

Does anyone remember the episode of the A-team where Hulk guest starred? He was doing some kind of community work with kids and B.A. was his friend.
 
I think that some evil developer wanted to bulldoze the community center to build something else on the lot. The A-Team and Hulk Hogan had to step in.
 
Here's my take. I'm in residency now and I work with grads from other DO schools, US and FMG MD grads - FMG and IMG alike. Many fine, smart people, and we have no problem working with each other.

Here's the issue: as an FMG/IMG you'll need ECFMG certification for the match. If you fail the USMLE CS during the match and don't retake and pass it in time, you are automatically withdrawn from the match. Meaning that whatever time and money you've spent on interviews and travel just evaporated for no good reason and you sit out and entire year. It happens. That sucks, but more importantly this is not the case with DO's.

The second thing - moonlighting. As an FMG/IMG you cannot moonlight as early as US MD and DO grads in most states. You may not think this is important, but come year 2 or 3 of residency when you feel the pinch of loan repayment or just need more money, you'll see the difference then.

Those are really the only concrete differences that I see.

I had a family and could not bear to leave them or take them with me to a Carib island. Therefore the choice was easy for me. However, had I no family, the Carib would easily be a great choice as well.
 
Agreed.

I had a friend who went to a carribean Vet school and wound up hating it. I think the romanticized aspects of living in the islands goes away pretty quickly for most people.

Just seems like too much of a hassle to me...
 
packitinstan said:
I hesitate to recommend an Osteopathic school if it's used only as a backup to US Allopathic programs. However, If you are interested in OMM and don't care about the initials, I would urge you to stay in the country and attend a DO school. You will get a solid education in both situations, but you'll have less hoops to jump through as a DO along with an easier time during rotations. The only benefit I can attribute to SGU is that you'll have to take fewer board exams, if you decide on pursuing a competitive residency.
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ummm... there's 3 steps in both the COMLEX and USMLE..and there's almost no point in taking the USMLE as a DO grad.
 
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