SGU VS DO ? Advice?

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Matrix0992

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My situation is I was on wait lists for couple of schools last cycle,
Got into SGU for JAN, but also thinking of re applying DO 3.4 Cum 3.2 Sci with 27 mcat because last time I had sent apps late like (December)

Problem now is my parents are being very annoying about me taking a another whole "Gap year" situation.. what do you guys think ?
 
no contest, go DO. Off-shore med schools will be squeezed out in the coming years, assuming you even make it that far. These schools don't have much in the way of academic support and they definitely do not have enough rotation spots for all their students.

tell your parents to go pound sand. It's your life not theirs.
 
DO all the way.

Don't listen to parents. They want things in life to go like clock work; getting a job, having kids, etc.. Reality doesn't work like that. Getting into medical school takes time and effort, make sure that you take the time (for apps early the better for the cycle ur applying) and do it right. Don't let them pressure you.
 
SGU vs. DO? Seriously!
 
A lot of people still feel DOs are basically chiropractors that can prescribe meds. SGU is probably a good enough school to survive the combined match.
 
A lot of people still feel DOs are basically chiropractors that can prescribe meds. SGU is probably a good enough school to survive the combined match.

I like to think we're more like MD's who got a dual degree in PT.
 
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I like to think we're more like MD's who got a dual degree in PT.

Wouldn't something like an MD, BE an MD, to laypeople? I don't know how much of the AMG/IMG/DO discussion applies in non-academic world. My experience has been that people really only recognize well known American schools.

I'm jaded but probably would attend a DO school if starting tomorrow. That being said, match rates and board scores from the big 4 are pretty competitive. Until seeing it (in black and white on residency/fellowship program website) I don't have a reason to believe a DO is automatically going to match over an MD from one of the big 4 with good board scores.

People can opine about anything online.

I did ask a DO residency director, directly, about opening his program to MDs. He stated it would only be by step scores. He also plans to go Green book, figuring there'll be an even better pool of applicants to choose from. That's one PD; aside from speculation..... very few people can make concrete statements.

Also, there will always be programs filling their positions outside the match.
 
Tbh. At the hospital I volunteer at (branch of NYPres), I did a search when looking for physicians to shadow, and most of them came up to be IMGs.

I'd say if you feel that you can be motivated enough to study more (since I hear offshores are a bit lax of USMLE prep), then go ahead.

Just remember that once you make a choice at SGU and attend, if you decide to apply US MD/DO, you'll have heads turning and a lot of questions to answer.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile
 
This is why it would be great for us to have US grads match first, per the resolution passed by the AOA HOD recently.
 
Wouldn't something like an MD, BE an MD, to laypeople? I don't know how much of the AMG/IMG/DO discussion applies in non-academic world. My experience has been that people really only recognize well known American schools.

I'm jaded but probably would attend a DO school if starting tomorrow. That being said, match rates and board scores from the big 4 are pretty competitive. Until seeing it (in black and white on residency/fellowship program website) I don't have a reason to believe a DO is automatically going to match over an MD from one of the big 4 with good board scores.

People can opine about anything online.

I did ask a DO residency director, directly, about opening his program to MDs. He stated it would only be by step scores. He also plans to go Green book, figuring there'll be an even better pool of applicants to choose from. That's one PD; aside from speculation..... very few people can make concrete statements.

Also, there will always be programs filling their positions outside the match.
http://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2014

http://www.rowan.edu/som/education/documents/MatchResultsforWebsite.pdf
http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/OUHCOM/accred.htm
http://www.pcom.edu/Student_Life/Student_Affairs_Main/match_2014.php
http://legacy.touro.edu/med/docs/MatchList.pdf

Finding accurate current match lists from each school is a bit of a pain in the butt, but most DO schools have 98-100% placement into postgraduate training of some sort. Most programs have a decent mix of specialties overall. Certainly not as good as a USMD match list, but still, miles above what you'll get on a percentage basis from the Big 4.

You can compare yourself. SGU isn't all that bad, honestly. Having looked at the stats and match results in the past, I generally have found that DO > SGU >> Ross > AUC = Saba.
 
This is why it would be great for us to have US grads match first, per the resolution passed by the AOA HOD recently.

What the AOA says doesn't matter though, they don't control how ACGME runs things.
 
This is why it would be great for us to have US grads match first, per the resolution passed by the AOA HOD recently.

You want to solve problems created by entitlements through more entitlements? No one owes you anything in life, LOL. It's best to figure that out while still young. 🙂

If certain candidates are truly superior, there's no need for weighting the match.

I have no taste for kool-aid. In fact, I look forward to seeing how future US MD students react to the combined match if residency positions are not increased. I'm convinced people's reactions will be amusing.
 
Tbh. At the hospital I volunteer at (branch of NYPres), I did a search when looking for physicians to shadow, and most of them came up to be IMGs.

I'd say if you feel that you can be motivated enough to study more (since I hear offshores are a bit lax of USMLE prep), then go ahead.

Just remember that once you make a choice at SGU and attend, if you decide to apply US MD/DO, you'll have heads turning and a lot of questions to answer.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile


I disagree, as late as the 2008 match, img's that failed step 1 and had to repeat it to pass, still matched to family or internal medicine. Nowadays, a fail is a nail in the coffin.

Plus they are not more lax on board prep, in fact their two preclinical years are strictly trivia-memorizing, board prep years. Ross professors teach out of First Aid from the very first year. The students were literally asking what pages of First Aid the prof covered and what they need to study for their test.

edited: grammar
 
You want to solve problems created by entitlements through more entitlements? No one owes you anything in life, LOL. It's best to figure that out while still young. 🙂

If certain candidates are truly superior, there's no need for weighting the match.

I have no taste for kool-aid. In fact, I look forward to seeing how future US MD students react to the combined match if residency positions are not increased. I'm convinced people's reactions will be amusing.

I don't understand your last sentence. DO's and IMGs already can, and do, apply to ACGME residencies but we can't apply for AOA positions, so a combined match would open up more slots for US MDs 😵. Also, US MDs actually benefit as well since the competitive residencies in the AOA, like Ortho, would be available to everyone and not just DO students and there are IM and FM positions in the AOA that US IMGs can apply to that not even DO students really want.

In most other countries like Australia, their own grads match first and IMGs get the scraps. I don't see what's wrong with taking care of our own graduates first.
 
What the AOA says doesn't matter though, they don't control how ACGME runs things.
part of the agreement with the merger was for the AOA to occupy 28% of ACGME leadership. That being said, 28% < 72%, so it remains to be seen how everything will unfold.
You want to solve problems created by entitlements through more entitlements? No one owes you anything in life, LOL. It's best to figure that out while still young. 🙂
Far fewer people would be complaining had the proposal been to allow US MD students to match first (before this merger). Yet when the proposal is have US MD AND DO matching first, it seems like people suddenly want to stick up for the IMG's/FMG's and put down DO's.
 
Only a few ignorant people on SDN. Sorry, hadda take the knife out this time. As mentioned above, look at match rates for DOs vs IMGs. And no whining about "DOs can't get into competitive residencies", they do. And even for the hyper competitive specialties, where you'll find few DOs, you're not going to find IMGs either.

A lot of people still feel DOs are basically chiropractors that can prescribe meds. SGU is probably a good enough school to survive the combined match.
 
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Looks like we got a head-start on the weekly DO vs. IMG thread. Glad we got this out of the way. Until next week folks.
 
Er, if people want to go to SGU, let them. It's a lovely place.
 
I don't understand your last sentence. DO's and IMGs already can, and do, apply to ACGME residencies but we can't apply for AOA positions, so a combined match would open up more slots for US MDs 😵. Also, US MDs actually benefit as well since the competitive residencies in the AOA, like Ortho, would be available to everyone and not just DO students and there are IM and FM positions in the AOA that US IMGs can apply to that not even DO students really want.

In most other countries like Australia, their own grads match first and IMGs get the scraps. I don't see what's wrong with taking care of our own graduates first.
I don't understand your last sentence. DO's and IMGs already can, and do, apply to ACGME residencies but we can't apply for AOA positions, so a combined match would open up more slots for US MDs 😵. Also, US MDs actually benefit as well since the competitive residencies in the AOA, like Ortho, would be available to everyone and not just DO students and there are IM and FM positions in the AOA that US IMGs can apply to that not even DO students really want.

In most other countries like Australia, their own grads match first and IMGs get the scraps. I don't see what's wrong with taking care of our own graduates first.

I just don't see how the egos of people with such superiority complexes can tolerate demanding the equivalent of affirmative action.

I just have to concentrate on upcoming interview season and match. This issue won't go anywhere, there's no need to get distracted. I'm guessing this topic will be entertaining for years .
 
Just go to SGU. 🙂

FABULOUS school. Know many people who are coming out doing A-Okay! 🙂





Less competition for meeeeee.... 🙂
 
Only a few ignorant people on SDN. Sorry, hadda take the knife out this time. As mentioned above, look at match rates for DOs vs IMGs. And no whining about "DOs can't get into competitive residencies", they do. And even for the hyper competitive specialties, where you'll find few DOs, you're not going to find IMGs either.

Family Medicine will be competitive once the number of applicants exceeds available residency positions.
 
@jakeislove are you an MD or DO student?
 
This topic has been discussed a lot here, and the overwhelming consensus is that DO>>>IMG, especially now with the merger. The match lists for Caribbean schools are deceiving because the attrition rates are so high. I think a gap year to improve your stats so you can get into any US school, would be a much better choice than gambling six figures in the Caribbean.
 
radkat101 said:
Maybe in the Caribbean and SDN pre-allo, but not in the real world.

This topic has been discussed a lot here, and the overwhelming consensus is that DO>>>IMG, especially now with the merger. The match lists for Caribbean schools are deceiving because the attrition rates are so high. I think a gap year to improve your stats so you can get into any US school, would be a much better choice than gambling six figures in the Caribbean.

Would you expect anything other than "DO>>>IMG" here?
 
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Wouldn't something like an MD, BE an MD, to laypeople? I don't know how much of the AMG/IMG/DO discussion applies in non-academic world. My experience has been that people really only recognize well known American schools.

I'm jaded but probably would attend a DO school if starting tomorrow. That being said, match rates and board scores from the big 4 are pretty competitive. Until seeing it (in black and white on residency/fellowship program website) I don't have a reason to believe a DO is automatically going to match over an MD from one of the big 4 with good board scores.

People can opine about anything online.

I did ask a DO residency director, directly, about opening his program to MDs. He stated it would only be by step scores. He also plans to go Green book, figuring there'll be an even better pool of applicants to choose from. That's one PD; aside from speculation..... very few people can make concrete statements.

Also, there will always be programs filling their positions outside the match.
I suppose ignorance is bliss. Enjoy the Caribbean.
 
Why haven't you applied already is the real question
 
This is needs to be answered, first.

Wow really blew up here.... Umm they said I should take loans and stuff just to be on the safe side... But they will be helping me along the way :/
Paid for all of college so far 👍

And ya I got into Ross also but that sounded even more shaky, sorry to offend anyone here !! Just in the sense of living conditions and the island itself. And every one else also said SGU>ROSS now between SGU and DO.

Ya I preferably want to do DO also, but always wondered how some rurals schools compare when it comes to matching in per-say Northeast... (New York/Tri-State Are) Been a Queens Guy my whole Life so eventually do wanna settle down around here.
 
Why haven't you applied already is the real question

Because I was on the wait list for DOs school till 2 weeks ago :/ Now re-doing my Primary ... But need to figure out if I should retake Mcat or take some classes. Because I have 2 C's in Bio's and I don't know If putting it in my app that I am retaking MCAT will delay schools from looking at my application immediately :/ Sorry Loaded Question.
BTW B4 anyone asks about extracurricular -> shadowed DO/MD/ Did Social-Sci Research (Never Published) Worked in a hospital/ Interned/ Volunteered
 
Ya I preferably want to do DO also, but always wondered how some rurals schools compare when it comes to matching in per-say Northeast... (New York/Tri-State Are) Been a Queens Guy my whole Life so eventually do wanna settle down around here.

I'm not too sure myself. However, main thing is to concentrate on being a doctor first and foremost over location. There are Radiologists and Pathologists who have to face a bad market and take whatever job they can get, just to do what they love. You may need to make that sacrifice also.

In the end, the best thing to do is to get into a US medical school first (as close to your preferable location as possible). The next move would be do well in school and then do your away rotations in New York. This will hopefully help you land you a residency within New York. After that, hope and pray you are able to work there.

Because I was on the wait list for DOs school till 2 weeks ago :/ Now re-doing my Primary ... But need to figure out if I should retake Mcat or take some classes. Because I have 2 C's in Bio's and I don't know If putting it in my app that I am retaking MCAT will delay schools from looking at my application immediately :/ Sorry Loaded Question.
BTW B4 anyone asks about extracurricular -> shadowed DO/MD/ Did Social-Sci Research (Never Published) Worked in a hospital/ Interned/ Volunteered

If I was in your situation with that MCAT, I would have just applied right away (I mean this cycle not your previous). Your MCAT is already competitive and would have landed you an acceptance if early. What was your school list like last time you applied?
 
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Wow really blew up here.... Umm they said I should take loans and stuff just to be on the safe side... But they will be helping me along the way :/
Paid for all of college so far 👍

And ya I got into Ross also but that sounded even more shaky, sorry to offend anyone here !! Just in the sense of living conditions and the island itself. And every one else also said SGU>ROSS now between SGU and DO.

Ya I preferably want to do DO also, but always wondered how some rurals schools compare when it comes to matching in per-say Northeast... (New York/Tri-State Are) Been a Queens Guy my whole Life so eventually do wanna settle down around here.

OP, you're fine. Apply DO right now. Apply broadly and wait for interviews. If you're worried about SGU, contact them and ask if you can start in the fall while you are preparing for the move (they'll let you).

SGU is the best school in the Caribbean, but its still a foreign med school. Going in Jan means you won't finish to match in 2018, you'll have to spend 6 months waiting (if you don't decel, take longer on boards, or take a leave before you graduate). That means you won't match until 2019 at the earliest anyways (so really waiting until Fall 2015 makes no difference anyways).

Not only is GME placement for DOs much higher than for IMGs (yes even SGU grads), attrition is also much lower. On top of that, you'll be paying a premium to attend SGU. For that money, you could attend almost any US school and save a ton on trips back home and other living expenses.

Now I have a good deal of friends that have gone to SGU (and Ross and AUC for that matter) and they have been lucky and managed to both graduate and match. They have told me that things on the islands have gotten much worse. More people are struggling to match in the same field that their predecessors matched in and many more people are SOAPing. And honestly the truth is, Carib schools are always there and always willing to take students, so worst case scenario you can just start a little later.

If any of these aren't argument enough, the fact that an SGU 4th yr is saying that if they were applying now they'd go DO should give you an idea of what is probably wiser at this point in time.

Lots of med schools rotate in/near NYC. Heck even my school (LECOM) has a year-long (you can do all your core rotations there) in Far Rockaway (St. Johns Episcopal). They take almost 10% of LECOM's students for cores, and they even have GMEs as a part of LECOMT (the LECOM affiliated osteopathic post-doctoral training institution) with GME in FM, GenSurg, Derm, OB/Gyn, and ophtho (and obviously TRIs). And that's just a school that is on the way other side of PA (and costs half as much as SGU by the way). I'm sure schools actually in/near NYC (NYIT-COM & Touro-NY) have a ton of other rotations there.

If you get into a NY DO school you'd be able to spend all 4 yrs near NYC, and I'm sure that would only increase your chances of doing your GME there. If you need more help, DocEspana could give you some input on Touro and being a DO in NYC if you ask him nicely, next week after he gets back from his vacation.
 
SGU is really expensive and many loan repayment programs do not apply to foreign schools. I was in the same predicament and decided to apply late versus applying Carribean and still got in. Your stats are similar to mine. Just apply broadly and you should be fine.
 
I was accepted to SGU and RowanSOM. I took the instate route because it was cheaper, the institution had connections to residencies I wanted, I wanted to do the Army route for tuition, you won't have to deal with leaving the US (shipping things down, new bank account, new phone, etc).

Your stats are fine, apply broadly (like everyone else has said) and talk to admissions early.
 
http://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2014

http://www.rowan.edu/som/education/documents/MatchResultsforWebsite.pdf
http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/OUHCOM/accred.htm
http://www.pcom.edu/Student_Life/Student_Affairs_Main/match_2014.php
http://legacy.touro.edu/med/docs/MatchList.pdf

Finding accurate current match lists from each school is a bit of a pain in the butt, but most DO schools have 98-100% placement into postgraduate training of some sort. Most programs have a decent mix of specialties overall. Certainly not as good as a USMD match list, but still, miles above what you'll get on a percentage basis from the Big 4.

You can compare yourself. SGU isn't all that bad, honestly. Having looked at the stats and match results in the past, I generally have found that DO > SGU >> Ross > AUC = Saba.

Sgu > auc>Saba> Ross

http://www.medicalschoolsuccess.com/top-caribbean-medical-schools/

Do far better of course. Sgu is the only one worth considering IMO (myb Saba because of tuition). Sgu is super expensive though
 
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Sgu > auc>Saba> Ross

http://www.medicalschoolsuccess.com/top-caribbean-medical-schools/

Do far better of course. Sgu is the only one worth considering IMO (myb Saba because of tuition). Sgu is super expensive though

Knowing people from most of those schools, I think it's more like SGU > AUC >/(maybe = now) Ross > Saba. Saba is on a pretty desolate island and has way more infrastructure issues than the rest. On top of that the attrition rate is high (they really try to weed you out and have very little if any support system forstruggling students) and I've heard of there being rotations issues there. It is desirable though in terms of cost and especially for Canadians.

The rest have an OK rep with rotations (comparatively at least). Ross has a much higher attrition rate than AUC, but who knows what will happen over the next 5 yrs now that they are both owned by the same company (DeVry). That said, both have been around a while and there are a lot of practicing alums in the workforce, so residency-program-rep-wise they have a more known track record than Saba (started in 1996) and especially better than the only other Carib school recognized by all state boards, AUA, which I think started in 2004 or something.
 
A lot of people still feel DOs are basically chiropractors that can prescribe meds. SGU is probably a good enough school to survive the combined match.
Uh, no. Try again. I realize you're a Caribbean grad, but even u know this isn't true.
 
If you want to enjoy medical school and have a secure future, go DO. If you want to work your ### off for four years and always wonder if you made the right choice, all for a CHANCE at a secure future, SGU's got you covered.
 
A lot of people still feel DOs are basically chiropractors that can prescribe meds. SGU is probably a good enough school to survive the combined match.

Obvious troll is obvious

As for the "decent" match rates at Carrib schools they are deceptive for two reasons

- Extremely high attrition rate
- Many students match into a tradition rotating internship. After that -- nothing.

In addition the debt will be astounding. And if you're stuck in debt and hopeless ... it's a situation that quite a few find themselves in after graduating from the Carribbean.

If you graduate from a DO school, you will be a doctor. No questions about it. Even if you don't match there are plenty of programs in place, and if you passed your boards, you can always be snuck into an FM residency somewhere with open spots.

Let's say it again - DO may not equal MD but once you're accepted there's at least some level of assurance. At a Carrib school ... you can succeed ... but there's a lot of fear.

Does anyone think a Med Student needs even MORE stress?
 
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You've never heard that?

That's ridiculous.

DO >>>>>>>>> Caribbean.

It's not even close. And I have no horse in this race (unlike you). I was a US MD school graduate, so it really doesn't matter to me who is right here. Stats speak for themselves, and this topic has already been beat to death on the pre-allo forum.
 
You've never heard that?

Honestly, no ...

Sentences about DOs !
"Yeah, Dr. C is my cardiologist"
"I'm going to see my gastroenterologist"
"I'm waiting to see my child's pediatrician"
"I need advice from my gynecologist"

Most patients, or other people either:
- Don't know their physician is a DO or MD
- Don't know if there's a difference between DO and MD (like DMD vs DDS)
- Know what a DO is (a fully qualified and licensed physician)
- Would RATHER see a DO, because of what they've heard
--- have actually heard this about an EM doc, cardiologist, and PM & R doc

That's pretty much all the opinions I've encountered. Most pre-allo and allo will say MD>DO but admit they're still equal docs once graduated
---> DO internist = MD internist

Only a few random people think DO's are significantly inferior. A majority of them are Carrbbean students who want to justify themselves
 
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