Shadowing a parent?

[gibsonlespaul]

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Hey everyone

I was just wondering if a Medical School would rather you shadow someone other than a parent? My dad's a doctor and I can pretty much shadow him anytime I want, but would a med school rather me shadow someone else? i.e. someone else in the same field?

I realize that this is an odd question, and that a doctor is a doctor, but this has been on my mind for a while and what better place to ask than SDN?

Thanks everyone

 

[childoftheatom]

That's an interesting question - just shadowing might be fine, but it's probably best to not get a letter of rec from your father. (is that against the rules?) But who knows, that's just my guess - maybe it's totally fine.

 

[Evergrey]

I don't think getting an LOR from family is against the rules per se, but I've definitely seen it stated on a lot of schools' admissions websites that they don't want family and friends writing you recommendations because, as it should be, they're completely useless for giving a candid assessment of an individual's potential.

 

[Stratego]

One of SDN's adcomms thought shadowing a parent was acceptable, but that a relative is a useless source of a reference letter. If you have a physician parent, though, it should be easy to arrange for other doctors to follow around.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Obviously a LOR is useless from a parent.

If I were you, shadowing your father is fine. I just wouldn't have this as my only shadowing experience. Its nice to have a LOR from a doctor (other than your family), and it is always good to shadow with multiple docs. With 1 shadowing experience, it is hard to say that you have a good grasp on what it takes to be a doc. For example: rural family medicine is much different than pathology at UCLA.

With shadowing more doctors, it is easy for admissions to feel comfortable that they are getting a dedicated student that has a firm grasp on what to expect.

 

[dmblue]

I worked for well over 1200 hours as a surgical assistant for my father in his private practice. While this helped my application, I was advised to get a second clinical experience so that I could procure a recommendation.

 

[oneandonlylo]

I shadowed my father extensively, however, I also had a great variety of other shadowing experiences. I definitely agree that a letter would be out of the question, though. That said, I've talked about things I learned shadowing my father in interviews and in secondaries, etc, but I generally didn't mention that I was talking about my father specifically, as I saw it as unnecessary. That said there were times when I specifically talked about things I learned from him, ie what shadowing him in particular taught me about myself and my desire to be in medicine, etc.

I guess my point is, go ahead. Just think carefully about how/when to mention it.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

If your dad is a doctor, he knows other doctors. Use him as a contact to get other shadowing experiences, and eliminate any potential hang-ups w/ LORs, etc.

 

[steelblue89]

I was wondering the same thing about shadowing my father. He ended up getting me a shadowing opportunity with one of his other doctor friends.

I might shadow him later on though if I feel like I need more hours.

 

[Law2Doc]

If your dad is a doctor, he knows other doctors. Use him as a contact to get other shadowing experiences, and eliminate any potential hang-ups w/ LORs, etc.

Exactly. As mentioned you can't get an LOR from a relative, and if you really can't list shadowing family on AMCAS because if it is figured out that your EC was "handed" to you in this way it totally taints it. Not to mention that relatives have a way of shielding you from a lot of the negatives of the job -- so it's simply not regarded as as useful to really see what doctors do. I'd say if you have folks in the healthcare profession, you should definitely ask them to hook you up with colleagues in the field, not themselves. That way you will have shadowed someone you can get an LOR from, list on AMCAS, and get to see the real deal.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

I might shadow him later on though if I feel like I need more hours.

See my post above -- this kind of shadowing is of no value in terms of "hours". If it helps you personally, that's fine, but you really can't use family shadowing for anything in the application process because it's not regarded as positive to have ECs handed to you -- they'd rather interview someone who had to work for it. Those couple of extra hours may rub a lot of adcoms the wrong way and so if you can get hooked up with a friend of a relative, rather than a relative directly, you are ALWAYS better off.

 

[gibsonlespaul]

Yeah, that's what I was worried about; I didn't want it to seem like I was just taking advantage of the fact that my dad was a doctor for easy shadowing "hours." I'm definitely going to shadow him, but I think I'll ask around myself to find other opportunities.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
You should get your father to teach you some medical skills and see if you can use that to work in another doctor's office so that you can get a letter of rec from another doc.

I have no problem with this -- but I suggest that if you do any family shadowing, it's stuff that never gets listed anywhere -- it's just something for your own benefit, but never makes it to an adcom's eyes. Meaning if you are looking to bolster hours, like the prior poster seemed to suggest, you don't count this stuff, you find another non-relative. Relatives are great for connections, but not great to work directly with. I also again suggest that you don't get the same experience working for a relative, because they are less likely to "throw you in" and often will try to shield you from any ugliness. A stranger won't impede your clear view of the negatives you might come across in medicine as much as, say, your dad, and as such is a better shadowing experience, both for your own edification and for PS purposes. So use family to help you get in the door with others. You can shadow them too on the down-low, maybe to get some skills to use at your actual shadowing experiences, but experience with a relative should never be in your app IMHO. Nepotism isn't looked at positively in the U.S., and it doesn't take much to rub an adcom the wrong way when they have so many applicants to choose from.

 

[rocketbooster]

I have no problem with this -- but I suggest that if you do any family shadowing, it's stuff that never gets listed anywhere -- it's just something for your own benefit, but never makes it to an adcom's eyes. Meaning if you are looking to bolster hours, like the prior poster seemed to suggest, you don't count this stuff, you find another non-relative. Relatives are great for connections, but not great to work directly with. I also again suggest that you don't get the same experience working for a relative, because they are less likely to "throw you in" and often will try to shield you from any ugliness. A stranger won't impede your clear view of the negatives you might come across in medicine as much as, say, your dad, and as such is a better shadowing experience, both for your own edification and for PS purposes. So use family to help you get in the door with others. You can shadow them too on the down-low, maybe to get some skills to use at your actual shadowing experiences, but experience with a relative should never be in your app IMHO. Nepotism isn't looked at positively in the U.S., and it doesn't take much to rub an adcom the wrong way when they have so many applicants to choose from.

yep, I got docked by my interviewers for this. the main adcom interview specifically wrote out on his interview notes of me that I had "great clinical experience but may have used father's connections to get in with his colleagues too much."

 

[EconFootball]

Digging up this thread again...

What about shadowing or getting letters of recommendation from family that doesn't share your last name, like step-parents? Unless you or the family member mentioned the ties, would the adcoms ever know?

Also, barring a medical school which specifically states not to use family members, is doing that illegal/wrong in any way?

 

[muhali3]

Digging up this thread again...

What about shadowing or getting letters of recommendation from family that doesn't share your last name, like step-parents? Unless you or the family member mentioned the ties, would the adcoms ever know?

Also, barring a medical school which specifically states not to use family members, is doing that illegal/wrong in any way?

Letters of Rec from doctors you shadow generally aren't good anyways, according to LizzyM. Since you don't really do anything while shadowing; the only thing you have to do is be quiet and follow the doc. That doesn't speak much to your ability as a potential physician.

 

[Sauce1]

Letters of Rec from doctors you shadow generally aren't good anyways, according to LizzyM. Since you don't really do anything while shadowing; the only thing you have to do is be quiet and follow the doc. That doesn't speak much to your ability as a potential physician.

Which is why you should shadow a doctor you have a relationship with. If they can attest to your character and how you would fit into the medical profession, I would think a great letter could be gained. Furthermore, if you know the doctor they talk and teach you more as you shadow them. However if you shadow a doc a few times and then get a letter, that is pointless as they dont know you as a person and you just tagged along them.

 

[LizzyM]

Which is why you should shadow a doctor you have a relationship with. If they can attest to your character and how you would fit into the medical profession, I would think a great letter could be gained. Furthermore, if you know the doctor they talk and teach you more as you shadow them. However if you shadow a doc a few times and then get a letter, that is pointless as they dont know you as a person and you just tagged along them.

The first thing a LOR mentions is how and how long the writer has known the applicant. What are we going to do with a letter that states, "I have known Meghan for 15 years because I am her aunt's husband." How unbiased is that guy going to be??

The classic was the guy who had a letter from his girlfriend's dad who was a surgical specialist. Doc wrote, "I hope that someday Bill will be my son-in-law." Well, didn't Doc have a vested interest in getting that applicant into med school!

Don't be that applicant.

And if you list or mention in the application that your parent is a doc, it is assumed that you have shadowed or otherwise been exposed to the practice of medicine including things that shadows often miss such as interrupted holiday dinners, middle of the night calls, etc.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

The classic was the guy who had a letter from his girlfriend's dad who was a surgical specialist. Doc wrote, "I hope that someday Bill will be my son-in-law." Well, didn't Doc have a vested interest in getting that applicant into med school!

Don't be that applicant.

That seems different to me than trying to get a letter from a parent doctor. If this doctor wants this guy to be his son-in-law, doesn't that speak to his character in itself? Dads are usually pretty skeptical of their daughters' boyfriends. It's not the same as a parent who believes their child can do no wrong.

 

[LizzyM]

That seems different to me than trying to get a letter from a parent doctor. If this doctor wants this guy to be his son-in-law, doesn't that speak to his character in itself?

Yes, but it also screams of a vested interest -- that his daughter may live in the manner to which she has been accustomed.

 

[FloatOn]

...

And if you list or mention in the application that your parent is a doc, it is assumed that you have shadowed or otherwise been exposed to the practice of medicine including things that shadows often miss such as interrupted holiday dinners, middle of the night calls, etc.

I think it's fine to shadow a doctor parent, but I agree that LORs should not be from doctors, especially those that are related to you or closely connected with your family.

However, the bolded part above brings up a really good point that can supplement your shadowing experiences of unrelated doctors, who you are often uncomfortable talking with about personal issues like family life, income, stress on the marriage, etc. As the child of a doctor parent, you are exposed to all of those things, so you have first-hand experience of what it's like not only when mom/dad goes to work, but what happens when they come home (or don't come home because they're on call). I think this is great to talk about during interviews because it lets interviewers know that you have a more complete sense of a doctor's lifestyle, not just his/her job.

 

[siliso]

I shadowed with someone other than my mother - used her ins to find someone, though.
I was asked in interview specifically whether I had shadowed with anyone other than my parent; was glad to be able to answer yes and elaborate. Did not request LOR from either, though.

 

[Sauce1]

The first thing a LOR mentions is how and how long the writer has known the applicant. What are we going to do with a letter that states, "I have known Meghan for 15 years because I am her aunt's husband." How unbiased is that guy going to be??

The classic was the guy who had a letter from his girlfriend's dad who was a surgical specialist. Doc wrote, "I hope that someday Bill will be my son-in-law." Well, didn't Doc have a vested interest in getting that applicant into med school!

Don't be that applicant.

And if you list or mention in the application that your parent is a doc, it is assumed that you have shadowed or otherwise been exposed to the practice of medicine including things that shadows often miss such as interrupted holiday dinners, middle of the night calls, etc.

By relationship I didn't mean related to you. Sorry for being unclear. I mean someone you have known for a long time and built a RELATIONSHIP with over the course of years. That letter is a good letter (read my previous post)

 

[Sauce1]

I disagree because someone you know on a personal level, unless you know them by working for them in research or as a med assistant, etc. are going to be biased towards positive even if you are everything contrary to the picture they paint of you. On the other hand, when you work for someone they will tell about your work ethic and personal and professional behavior which is what the purpose of letter is for.

I disagree with this haha. It is easy to "fake" being who you are and suck up to professors/work supervisors and not paint a true picture of who you are to them. Also, the letter will be superficial because you most likely would not have known them for a while or outside of this setting. However, a doctor that you have known for some time can attest to your character for years and paint a picture of what you really are like. Of course a relative is a big NO NO and you dont want a doctor whom you only shadowed only a few times because they dont really know you.

 

[EconFootball]

So what would you suggest if you know no other doctors and your premedical advisory committee requires you to submit an MD/DO recommendation?

 

[Jonesie]

So what would you suggest if you know no other doctors and your premedical advisory committee requires you to submit an MD/DO recommendation?

How about your own family physician? Perhaps you could ask your pre-med office if they have a list of physicians willing to let a student shadow? Or try calling/writing the office of a few local physician to ask?

Be resourceful.