Shadowing a psychiatrist-legal?

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G1SG2

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I mentioned in my personal statement that I shadowed a psychiatrist and saw her interacting with patients. However, I didn't get to be with her in the room when she was discussing the patients condition/medications or anything personal. I shadowed her as she made rounds throughout the ward and saw her interacting with patients who were hanging out. I don't want adcoms to think I did anything illegal. Should I specifically mention what I was able to do and what I wasn't able to do? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: This was in an inpatient setting, if that makes a difference.
 
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I mentioned in my personal statement that I shadowed a psychiatrist and saw her interacting with patients. However, I didn't get to be with her in the room when she was discussing the patients condition/medications or anything personal. I shadowed her as she made rounds throughout the ward and saw her interacting with patients who were hanging out. I don't want adcoms to think I did anything illegal. Should I specifically mention what I was able to do and what I wasn't able to do? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

It is unusual enough, and does raise a question about propriety (I wouldn't say "legality") that you may be asked about it in an interview. You seem to have a good explanation of what was happening and you just need to explain that in a straightforward and unrehearsed way when asked. You might also expound about the shadowing experience in a secondary if it fits with the prompt.
 
I too have a similar concern. I spent time with a family member over the years (who is a psychiatrist) and he showed me around various settings, clinic, private practice etc, and I got to meet a lot of other docs at lunch, etc. to ask them questions and see how their day goes. If I just said I shadowed "a psychiatrist for so and so hours in these settings" Would that raise any flags?

yes. You are much better to put the highlighted stuff marked above in the description section.
 
I'm confused as why you would think shadowing a psychiatrist would be any different than shadowing another type of doctor when you write about it. You still need to follow HIPAA. Just make sure you don't mention anything that would give away personal information about the patients you interacted with and you should be fine.

My PS was mainly about shadowing in an inpatient psychiatric department and a very specific experience with 1 patient. I mentioned the diagnosis, but changed the name and any other identifiers. No one ever said anything to me about it during my interviews, except to ask me questions about my experience there. You should be fine!
 
Thanks everyone :luck:
 
I wrote about an experience shadowing in psych in my personal statement. Got asked about it, but not in a bad way. I'm not quite sure I follow what LizzyM is saying.
 
I wrote about an experience shadowing in psych in my personal statement. Got asked about it, but not in a bad way. I'm not quite sure I follow what LizzyM is saying.

I think the concern was due to a number of factors unique to psych pts (with confidentiality being the chief concern and the others being other issues I could see creating concern when shadowing a psychiatrist). They would include (IME):

  • Confidentiality (Psych is unique not in the necessity of pt confidentiality, but in the level of pt confidentiality required)
  • Effectiveness of a session with another student present (i.e., would the pre-med's presence be problematic for pt care)
  • Safety (i.e., psych pts can become aggressive and/or violent very quickly and the pre-med's presence might aggravate a pt or even if it does not aggravate the pt, if something else did and the pt became assaultive, would the pre-med know how to handle that situation, esp. in terms of what not to do?)
 
I think the concern was due to a number of factors unique to psych pts (with confidentiality being the chief concern and the others being other issues I could see creating concern when shadowing a psychiatrist). They would include (IME):

  • Confidentiality (Psych is unique not in the necessity of pt confidentiality, but in the level of pt confidentiality required)
  • Effectiveness of a session with another student present (i.e., would the pre-med's presence be problematic for pt care)
  • Safety (i.e., psych pts can become aggressive and/or violent very quickly and the pre-med's presence might aggravate a pt or even if it does not aggravate the pt, if something else did and the pt became assaultive, would the pre-med know how to handle that situation, esp. in terms of what not to do?)

I understand this from a pre-med point of view, but I would expect people more familiar with what happens in medicine, and with a general understanding of psychiatry, to see this as a non-issue.
 
I understand this from a pre-med point of view, but I would expect people more familiar with what happens in medicine, and with a general understanding of psychiatry, to see this as a non-issue.

I work in that field (psychiatry/mental health) and have for about 5-6 years and I still would see those things as potential issues. The docs I have worked with generally are more lax about things but the psych nurses and psychologists with whom I have worked would probably emphasize this much more than I do. Most psychiatrists I've met generally will not even allow pre-meds to shadow and the hospital where I am currently employed won't even allow me to shadow my own medical director (a psychiatrist) with my own patients!
 
I work in that field (psychiatry/mental health) and have for about 5-6 years and I still would see those things as potential issues. The docs I have worked with generally are more lax about things but the psych nurses and psychologists with whom I have worked would probably emphasize this much more than I do. Most psychiatrists I've met generally will not even allow pre-meds to shadow and the hospital where I am currently employed won't even allow me to shadow my own medical director (a psychiatrist) with my own patients!

What I'm saying is that if an applicant is writing about a patient experience, which happens in every personal statement (and due to character limits really couldn't really say much by default), then it is implied that the psychiatrist felt it was appropriate for the pre-med to shadow them in whatever capacity it was. I think that alone communicates that there was nothing unethical going on, unless someone takes issue with the psychiatrist's judgement. All I can say is that I never considered it an issue and on six interviews, nobody thought anything of it either.
 
what I was trying to say to that particular poster was to use a longer description (and some of you know how much I advise against long descriptions in most circumstances) rather than just saying "I shadowed a psychiatrist" because it would raise some questions (good or bad... you have better things to discuss at interview than clarifying what you meant by "shadowed").

It would be highly irregular to shadow a private practice psychiatrist in an office setting... privacy and confidentiality is paramount in that setting.

It is less of an issue in inpatient settings and where there is group therapy, team meetings, writing orders, review of nurses notes & other data, etc. There is much to see there without inserting one's self between the physician and patient.
 
What I'm saying is that if an applicant is writing about a patient experience, which happens in every personal statement (and due to character limits really couldn't really say much by default), then it is implied that the psychiatrist felt it was appropriate for the pre-med to shadow them in whatever capacity it was. I think that alone communicates that there was nothing unethical going on, unless someone takes issue with the psychiatrist's judgement. All I can say is that I never considered it an issue and on six interviews, nobody thought anything of it either.

Ah ok, gotcha. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I took it as those concerns were only ones a pre-med without experience would express, while I think they are definitely concerns any healthcare professional in that setting would express if a pre-med wanted to be in-session w/ the pt & dr. Of course, I agree that one would expect the adcoms to accept the judgment of the psychiatrist and suspect anything unethical unless there were other reasons to believe there might be.

And thanks for clarifying, Lizzy. That definitely helps me as well. BTW, would you consider many shadowing hours less crucial for someone, then, who has worked on the unit, filed the charts, consulted w the physicians and nurses regularly, etc.? I have found it difficult in my area to get de facto shadowing in. As I mentioned above, I actually had my clinical manager terminate my shadowing of my medical director mid-morning (just a few hrs in) b/c of hospital policy against being on the unit but off the clock! For someone like myself (a non-trad who has been out of college working for just a few years part-time and worked most of that in a hospital or other direct-care setting and probably a good 75% in one field -- psychiatry -- with maybe 20% in an emergency dept and 5% in just about anything at a free clinic), what would you consider a reasonable amount of shadowing?
 
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For someone like myself (a non-trad who has been out of college working for just a few years part-time and worked most of that in a hospital or other direct-care setting and probably a good 75% in one field -- psychiatry -- with maybe 20% in an emergency dept and 5% in just about anything at a free clinic), what would you consider a reasonable amount of shadowing?

I dont' put much emphasis on shadowing if you've been on the payroll of a medical facility in a patient care role. Where adcoms are looking for shadowing is when you've got someone whose sum-total of clinical experience is 30 hours playing with sick kids in a children's hospital and a stint at a summer camp for kids with medical issues. That sort of applicant may have no clue what doctors do and where they do it. (I had an applicant who didn't know that doctors work anywhere except inside a hospital....I guess he'd never seen a doctor's office or clinic 😕 .)
 
I dont' put much emphasis on shadowing if you've been on the payroll of a medical facility in a patient care role. Where adcoms are looking for shadowing is when you've got someone whose sum-total of clinical experience is 30 hours playing with sick kids in a children's hospital and a stint at a summer camp for kids with medical issues. That sort of applicant may have no clue what doctors do and where they do it. (I had an applicant who didn't know that doctors work anywhere except inside a hospital....I guess he'd never seen a doctor's office or clinic 😕 .)


Ok, thanks, Lizzy! That's always what I would have assumed but even amongst the non-trads around here you see a lot of emphasis on shadowing. To me, shadowing seems like a general waste of time (unless, as you mentioned, one's sum clinical experience is a low- to moderate-pt-contact volunteer position for <100 hrs). It feels really awkward as a healthcare provider to follow the doc around and just watch him do everything, not really sure how much, if anything, to contribute (some physicians have had me read charts and summarize them for them for an admit or d/c dictation or participate in the H&P and tell them any findings). Still, admittedly, I have learned things from shadowing the docs with whom I've worked. Sometimes, they'll show me something in the chart that makes my job easier that I may not have noticed otherwise. It's also a great time to casually consult on our pts!
 
wait is it really a bad thing to have shadowed a psychiatrist?

I spent several days with one and would sit in while they met with patients (whats the point of shadowing if you don't see them interract with patients anyway?). Although this was child psych and at a teaching hospital so maybe the "cultural" norms are much different.
 
wait is it really a bad thing to have shadowed a psychiatrist?

I spent several days with one and would sit in while they met with patients (whats the point of shadowing if you don't see them interract with patients anyway?). Although this was child psych and at a teaching hospital so maybe the "cultural" norms are much different.

No it isn't a bad thing but some people have a mental picture of Tony Soprano in his shrink's office & wonder where a shadow would fit in. Fact is psychiatrists practice in many different venues and there are instances (such as your own example) where a third party in the room would not be out of place or interfer with clinical care.
 
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