Shadowing Alternatives

[Doctor Hibbert]

Finding shadowing opportunities can be quite difficult, a lot of the physicians I've approached have expressed 'privacy concerns.'
Any suggestions for other positions to shadow that would show well on an application? I was considering approaching veterinarians. Ideas or thoughts?
Thanks.

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[Mt Kilimanjaro]

If your dad was a doctor you wouldn't have this problem.

You really have to use the shotgun approach until you get winnage. It's annoying for everyone, but such is life. Free clinics are often very open to this type of thing.

Don't shadow a veterinarian unless you want to be a veterinarian.

 

[rudziutki]

Rant: At what point did shadowing become a silent requirement for medical school admissions? I have asked doctors who graduated from medical school as recently as 2005 to shadow, and I too get the same answer of privacy concerns... even the ones who allowed me to shadow were very skeptical until I explained to them that it's basically an obligation now to get in somewhere. It seems as recently as 10 years ago shadowing was simply not a requirement to get into medical school. It just adds another component to this process that favors people with family or connections already existing in the medical field. Makes you wonder what will be the next ridiculous requirement 10 years from now. /rant

 

[UCFMD]

I was considering approaching veterinarians. Ideas or thoughts?

This will not help you..

Call up every physician in the area if you have to. There's at least one physician you can shadow within 30 minutes of you, I promise. Just make a list of phone numbers and call them one by one. You'll get a ton of rejections, but you only need one person to say yes.

 

[exquisitemelody]

There's no other way around it - you have to shadow a doctor. Keep calling around. Also, have you asked your own doctors? What about your families doctors? All the doctors I shadowed were either my own doctors or my mother's doctors. Once you shadow them, you can ask if they have any colleagues that would let you shadow.

Are you in school right now? Do you know if any of your profs are married to doctors? You could try that.

 

[polyatomic]

One thing that might be easier - find alumni from your school. They're usually more receptive. Otherwise, just call every doctor you have ANY connection to, and then any doctor at all. And you can't just call once. You have to call several times typically to finally get through.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Rant: At what point did shadowing become a silent requirement for medical school admissions? I have asked doctors who graduated from medical school as recently as 2005 to shadow, and I too get the same answer of privacy concerns... even the ones who allowed me to shadow were very skeptical until I explained to them that it's basically an obligation now to get in somewhere. It seems as recently as 10 years ago shadowing was simply not a requirement to get into medical school. It just adds another component to this process that favors people with family or connections already existing in the medical field. Makes you wonder what will be the next ridiculous requirement 10 years from now. /rant

I know multiple people from the MD class of 2012 who never shadowed anybody. Some schools value it more than others but I do get the sense that it's relatively recent.

 

[Doctor Hibbert]

There's no other way around it - you have to shadow a doctor. Keep calling around. Also, have you asked your own doctors? What about your families doctors? All the doctors I shadowed were either my own doctors or my mother's doctors. Once you shadow them, you can ask if they have any colleagues that would let you shadow.

Are you in school right now? Do you know if any of your profs are married to doctors? You could try that.

Yeah, currently in school. With limited connections to physicians in my area, it seems like my only option may be a massive calling campaign to physicians in the area!

One thing that might be easier - find alumni from your school. They're usually more receptive. Otherwise, just call every doctor you have ANY connection to, and then any doctor at all. And you can't just call once. You have to call several times typically to finally get through.

Calling alumni is a pretty good suggestion as well.

 

[Iso4ane]

There's no other way around it - you have to shadow a doctor. Keep calling around. Also, have you asked your own doctors? What about your families doctors? All the doctors I shadowed were either my own doctors or my mother's doctors. Once you shadow them, you can ask if they have any colleagues that would let you shadow.

Are you in school right now? Do you know if any of your profs are married to doctors? You could try that.

Yeah, definitely ask you own doctors. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), I was sick a lot as a kid so I many to choose from. I got the opportunity to shadow a hand surgeon, that was pretty neat. And there where privacy concerns, but they had forms that I had to sign, and thats about it.

 

[TheLadyVanishes]

I had success with physicians I knew through work and clinical volunteering. That way you're already signed off with HIPAA and institution policies, plus they are probably appreciative of your help.

 

[Konfidence]

You can apply to become a scribe. Never once did I do traditional shadowing...only scribing for a few years. You have to explain that it's basically employed shadowing though (like use the word shadowing when you are listing scribing on your AMCAS employment history).I never once had a problem on the interview trail, got into a few M.D. schools. Best of luck, getting a scribe job nowadays is a challenge in itself though.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Something to keep in mind is that you only need clinical experience. That most commonly comes from shadowing, but you can also get it in certain volunteer/work environments, although unfortunately those can be even more difficult to find.

If there's a free clinic anywhere near you see if you can shadow there. You may very well have to volunteer first for a certain number of hours so keep that in mind when broaching the topic. However, free clinics are your best bet if you don't have any connections since they're pretty lax about HIPAA. With luck, at least one of the physicians you end up shadowing will be able to put you in contact with other physicians to shadow.

If you're still in school it shouldn't be that hard to find shadowing opportunities though. Your pre-med office can probably help hook you up, and there may very well be physicians associated with the school who will be very open to shadowing from that school's students.

It REALLY helps if you can leverage any connections you have. A lot of clinics will tell students "no" if they cold call, but if you have someone who knows the physician introducing you to him (ie vouching for you) suddenly they'll be a lot more open to the idea of shadowing. Now is the time to start honing your networking skills. In addition, things become much easier if you can get HIPAA certified; once you've got that even cold calling will probably work more often than not.

 

[kami333]

Also some academic hospitals have "official" shadowing programs that you can apply to too.


My undergrad premed program started a shadowing program in 2001 if I remember correctly, it's gotten fancier and fancier every year from what I've read.

 

[Granny Watkins]

If you're still in school it shouldn't be that hard to find shadowing opportunities though. Your pre-med office can probably help hook you up, and there may very well be physicians associated with the school who will be very open to shadowing from that school's students.

Lucky for those who can get it. My university's pre-med office doesn't help students with setting up shadowing and have been pretty useless overall. I'm pretty much on my own.

 

[sinombre]

I hadn't done any shadowing prior to getting accepted this cycle (I did do a bit of official shadowing after I was accepted, though).

The way to get around "shadowing" is to find other clinical experiences that offer the same or similar exposure to what medicine is actually like. e.g. working as an ER scribe, or working on a clinical research project that requires you to run around a hospital with your PI, or working as a research coordinator, etc. I had a ton of these types of clinical ECs.

So shadowing isn't an implicit requirement per se, but exposure to medicine, different clinical environments, and what a day in the life of a physician is like basically are.

 

[sinombre]

Lucky for those who can get it. My university's pre-med office doesn't help students with setting up shadowing and have been pretty useless overall. I'm pretty much on my own.

I was in that position too. If anything it teaches you the value of initiative, which will pay off in dividends throughout life. You'll find opportunities if you're persistent, and they'll pay off in the end.

 

[Juan Solo]

I was in that position too. If anything it teaches you the value of initiative, which will pay off in dividends throughout life. You'll find opportunities if you're persistent, and they'll pay off in the end.

^ This! Well said.

 

[scene]

I got the same response from a number of physicians I contacted for shadowing hours and one of them once said "it's a privacy issue, but you can put down you shadowed for x amount of hours and I will say you did it if they call to confirm."

you should ask one of them to do this if they keep saying it's a liability/HIPAA issue.

 

[Granny Watkins]

I was in that position too. If anything it teaches you the value of initiative, which will pay off in dividends throughout life. You'll find opportunities if you're persistent, and they'll pay off in the end.

Yeah, I look at it as a positive because someone isn't always going to be around to help me and this way I can learn to be self-sufficient.

 

[sinombre]

Yeah, I look at it as a positive because someone isn't always going to be around to help me and this way I can learn to be self-sufficient.

Exactly. Good luck 👍

 

[Serrulata]

I was under the impression as a freshman that my university would help me, but I soon realized that I'd have to go about this on my own. I googled different specialties that I wanted to shadow, wrote down about 20 numbers (did this every once in a while), logged it all in a journal, because I really did have to call 5+ times (no one would return my calls, etc) and it wasn't fun but I did get to shadow eventually.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Rant: At what point did shadowing become a silent requirement for medical school admissions? I have asked doctors who graduated from medical school as recently as 2005 to shadow, and I too get the same answer of privacy concerns... even the ones who allowed me to shadow were very skeptical until I explained to them that it's basically an obligation now to get in somewhere. It seems as recently as 10 years ago shadowing was simply not a requirement to get into medical school. It just adds another component to this process that favors people with family or connections already existing in the medical field. Makes you wonder what will be the next ridiculous requirement 10 years from now. /rant

CEO of a major corporation?

You can get away with no shadowing if you have clinical employment, like a scribe position. Unfortunately this adds another significant commitment on top of the vast amount of ridiculous requirements that only recently became so mainstream. If you can find one physician to shadow, it's a huge load off your back since it's far less demanding than clinical work, which doesn't do much for you setting you apart considering the amount of time you put in.

 

[Cinclus]

Just keep spamming different doctors' offices with shadowing requests. That's what I had to do. In the meantime, I volunteered in an ED to get clinical experience that way. Also, ask pre-med friends if they have someone they shadow (then you know that doctor allows it), and ask friends and family if they have connections with any physicians. These connections are generally very helpful with getting shadowing opportunities.

 

[OPanchor]

Relevant question here guys, so sorry for the bump.
I have done research/shadowed a research physician at a research hospital over a summer. The majority of my time was spent in the lab, when I did go to the hospital it was only near the lobbies and never in any direct patient contact (that being said, I am an EMT-B and have already had my fill of patient contact 😛)
Despite that, I did spend time with the physician, learned about the importance of academic medicine and the care provided when she was mainly clinical.
Is this okay to count as shadowing? Or will I have to be legitimately shadowing an ATTENDING physician in order to list it as so? In justification, I have learned a lot from this physician, I have technically observed how a physician works in the research aspect of things, and she has further established my decision to go to medical school, but I do not want to unintentionally mislead anyone.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ismet]

Relevant question here guys, so sorry for the bump.
I have done research/shadowed a research physician at a research hospital over a summer. The majority of my time was spent in the lab, when I did go to the hospital it was only near the lobbies and never in any direct patient contact (that being said, I am an EMT-B and have already had my fill of patient contact 😛)
Despite that, I did spend time with the physician, learned about the importance of academic medicine and the care provided when she was mainly clinical.
Is this okay to count as shadowing? Or will I have to be legitimately shadowing an ATTENDING physician in order to list it as so? In justification, I have learned a lot from this physician, I have technically observed how a physician works in the research aspect of things, and she has further established my decision to go to medical school, but I do not want to unintentionally mislead anyone.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, I would count that as shadowing. There are many facets to being an academic physician, and it's good to get exposure to that. Maybe you can work in a sentence or two to your shadowing description to talk about what you learned.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Finding shadowing opportunities can be quite difficult, a lot of the physicians I've approached have expressed 'privacy concerns.'
Any suggestions for other positions to shadow that would show well on an application? I was considering approaching veterinarians. Ideas or thoughts?
Thanks.

I know, and it's been hard for me to find someone to shadow as well. Try going to school events on campus hosted by premedical clubs and see if they have any contacts. Maybe one of the speakers one day will be a doctor. That's how I found my shadowing.

 

[mvenus929]

Yes, I would count that as shadowing. There are many facets to being an academic physician, and it's good to get exposure to that. Maybe you can work in a sentence or two to your shadowing description to talk about what you learned.

I'm not so sure. Shadowing implies clinical experience; clinical experience implies actually interacting with patients (or at least seeing them). I'd personally be hesitant to put it down as shadowing, especially since you could already put the experience down as research and explain what all you learned from her there, but it's not a clinical experience.

But if you're not listing the experience as research, go ahead and list it as shadowing and explain what exactly you did. You can't be at fault if you're honest about what you did and did not do.

 

[Ismet]

I'm not so sure. Shadowing implies clinical experience; clinical experience implies actually interacting with patients (or at least seeing them). I'd personally be hesitant to put it down as shadowing, especially since you could already put the experience down as research and explain what all you learned from her there, but it's not a clinical experience.

But if you're not listing the experience as research, go ahead and list it as shadowing and explain what exactly you did. You can't be at fault if you're honest about what you did and did not do.

To me, shadowing doesn't necessarily have to entail clinical experience. If he has any interest in academic medicine, I think it's a good thing to observe and learn about the non-clinical side of medicine. I do agree that if he is not seeing patients it's not clinical experience, and i agree about not cross-listing it with research, so he should definitely explain in the description what the shadowing entailed.

 

[OPanchor]

To me, shadowing doesn't necessarily have to entail clinical experience. If he has any interest in academic medicine, I think it's a good thing to observe and learn about the non-clinical side of medicine. I do agree that if he is not seeing patients it's not clinical experience, and i agree about not cross-listing it with research, so he should definitely explain in the description what the shadowing entailed.

I'm not so sure. Shadowing implies clinical experience; clinical experience implies actually interacting with patients (or at least seeing them). I'd personally be hesitant to put it down as shadowing, especially since you could already put the experience down as research and explain what all you learned from her there, but it's not a clinical experience.

But if you're not listing the experience as research, go ahead and list it as shadowing and explain what exactly you did. You can't be at fault if you're honest about what you did and did not do.

Thank you both for your responses. So what you're suggesting is, if I want this to fall under shadowing, to just label it as shadowing instead of both "research/shadowing" in the description title, and just say I learned and helped on research for the most part of my shadowing experience?

 

[Ismet]

Thank you both for your responses. So what you're suggesting is, if I want this to fall under shadowing, to just label it as shadowing instead of both "research/shadowing" in the description title, and just say I learned and helped on research for the most part of my shadowing experience?

If your overall experience was mainly research with the occasional shadowing, you can definitely list it as research and include a sentence or two that you also shadowed a physician in the research/academic side of things. Adcoms read the descriptions. They'll see you have a bit of physician shadowing experience included in your research experience.

Or you can do it the way you said. It's all up to you how you want to emphasize it.

 

[Doctor Hibbert]

I was wondering what you guys would consider this:

Every week, the undergrad students in my lab get an invitation to a meeting of about 3 or 4 physicians (diverse fields and specialties), a few faculty of Med. professors, and some Ph.D students as they discuss clinical/pathological side of MULTIPLE topics.
Most of the time us undergrads just sit silently wide-eyed, but it's been pretty interesting to hear the physicians discuss amongst themselves.

Would something like this be considered shadowing? Or some sort of other EC?

Thanks!

 

[kami333]

I was wondering what you guys would consider this:

Every week, the undergrad students in my lab get an invitation to a meeting of about 3 or 4 physicians (diverse fields and specialties), a few faculty of Med. professors, and some Ph.D students as they discuss clinical/pathological side of MULTIPLE topics.
Most of the time us undergrads just sit silently wide-eyed, but it's been pretty interesting to hear the physicians discuss amongst themselves.

Would something like this be considered shadowing? Or some sort of other EC?

Thanks!

Sounds more like journal club/grand rounds/chalk talk type activity rather than shadowing.

 

[GoPelicans]

I was wondering what you guys would consider this:

Every week, the undergrad students in my lab get an invitation to a meeting of about 3 or 4 physicians (diverse fields and specialties), a few faculty of Med. professors, and some Ph.D students as they discuss clinical/pathological side of MULTIPLE topics.
Most of the time us undergrads just sit silently wide-eyed, but it's been pretty interesting to hear the physicians discuss amongst themselves.

Would something like this be considered shadowing? Or some sort of other EC?

Thanks!

This is definitely not shadowing. There is a slot on AMCAS called 'conferences attended' or something along those lines. But really, this is not an EC and nothing worth mentioning on your AMCAS at all. You are sitting passively for an hour listening to a guy talk about something that is likely far beyond your comprehension or experience.

 

[PanRoasted]

Something to keep in mind is that you only need clinical experience. That most commonly comes from shadowing, but you can also get it in certain volunteer/work environments, although unfortunately those can be even more difficult to find.

I would say shadowing is a separate "requirement" from just clinical experience. For example, if I were doing some kind of clinical research that required me to interact with patients, I wouldn't be getting the same kind of experience as following around a doctor for an entire work day. I would be getting patient interaction experience, but in the end, I would not have experienced what the average work day is like for a doctor. I know for a fact that at least UW considers these things to be separate. I wouldn't be surprised if many other institutions had the same policy.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I would say shadowing is a separate "requirement" from just clinical experience. For example, if I were doing some kind of clinical research that required me to interact with patients, I wouldn't be getting the same kind of experience as following around a doctor for an entire work day. I would be getting patient interaction experience, but in the end, I would not have experienced what the average work day is like for a doctor. I know for a fact that at least UW considers these things to be separate. I wouldn't be surprised if many other institutions had the same policy.

Yeah

But there's no real requirement as to the number of shadowing / volunteering hours you have to have right? I keep hearing rumors that some medical schools want like 300 hrs of volunteering and etc. and I'm not very inclined to believe them

 

[kevinc2]

Don't shadow a nurse since you're not going to be a nurse.

And try contacting "academic" physicians- doctors who work for an university hospital. They are more used to shadowing and letting students observe and talk to patients. Their excuse whenever someone cited "privacy concern" was that "we are at a teaching hospital. we're supposed to teach and patients know that."

 

[TexasSurgeon]

If your dad was a doctor you wouldn't have this problem.

Lolololol

 

[OPanchor]

As a follow up question, I volunteer as an EMT. Through my transports and observation hours, I have had opportunities to, similar to the above comments, informally shadow physicians and watch them treat patients we have transported and communicate with them and their parents (if present). From those experiences, I've come to understand more about the hospital environment and how the doctor interacts with patients.
My question is whether it 's okay to mention this as such in my description under my EMT activities. I understand that it is not 'real follow-a-physician' shadowing, hence my 'informal', but I do not wish to mislead anyone either. Any input is apprecaited.

 

[Epinephreus]

As a follow up question, I volunteer as an EMT. Through my transports and observation hours, I have had opportunities to, similar to the above comments, informally shadow physicians and watch them treat patients we have transported and communicate with them and their parents (if present). From those experiences, I've come to understand more about the hospital environment and how the doctor interacts with patients.
My question is whether it 's okay to mention this as such in my description under my EMT activities. I understand that it is not 'real follow-a-physician' shadowing, hence my 'informal', but I do not wish to mislead anyone either. Any input is apprecaited.

I would not label this experience as shadowing. However, definitely discuss what you learned about medicine/physicians from your perspective from this role. This could be invaluable in your application. On that note, make sure you have some form of legitimate physician shadowing before applying.

 

[MedWonk]

You can apply to become a scribe. Never once did I do traditional shadowing...only scribing for a few years. You have to explain that it's basically employed shadowing though (like use the word shadowing when you are listing scribing on your AMCAS employment history).I never once had a problem on the interview trail, got into a few M.D. schools. Best of luck, getting a scribe job nowadays is a challenge in itself though.

This. It's tough to get a scribing position now that the secret is out. Of course, if there are hospitals that use scribes in you area, you should totally go for it. I have 18 hours of shadowing. The rest is through scribing and clinical volunteering (though half of volunteering was serving coffee/folding blankets and the other half was observing nurses, which was useful in ruling out nursing as a career).

 

[OPanchor]

I would not label this experience as shadowing. However, definitely discuss what you learned about medicine/physicians from your perspective from this role. This could be invaluable in your application. On that note, make sure you have some form of legitimate physician shadowing before applying.

This. It's tough to get a scribing position now that the secret is out. Of course, if there are hospitals that use scribes in you area, you should totally go for it. I have 18 hours of shadowing. The rest is through scribing and clinical volunteering (though half of volunteering was serving coffee/folding blankets and the other half was observing nurses, which was useful in ruling out nursing as a career).

Thank you both for the responses. Epinephreus, do you really recommend me not applying until I get a shadowing gig? That can take a while, and I don't wish to delay my application just because I lack legitimate shadowing 🙁