Shadowing an anesthesiologist as a gen surgery dropout.

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tofoo

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Hi folks. I've been lurking in the gas forum for the past 8 months and decided to see if I can get any good advice on this topic.

Long story short, I was in a gen surg residency from 2009 to 2011. In 2011, I left residency and medicine due to medical leave (spinal fracture fully recovered now) and now applying to ERAS for anesthesiology this upcoming cycle.

While I'm applying, I was thinking it would be good to shadow an anesthesiologist, but I don't know what would be a good way to approach local gas doctors (I'm in San Diego). Originally, my idea was to just cold call anesthesiology practices and see if anyone would be interested but I thought I'd make a post to see if anyone had a good idea (i.e. how do I approach a gas doc with a "hat-in-my-hand" attitude?)

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What about talking to the anesthesiology program director at the institution where you did gen surg? Or try cold calling (or emailing) local academic departments if you've moved since and see if an observership is possible.

Also, I'm wondering, are your USMLEs still valid for ERAS? I'm guessing you already passed step 3...
 
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Hi folks. I've been lurking in the gas forum for the past 8 months and decided to see if I can get any good advice on this topic.

Long story short, I was in a gen surg residency from 2009 to 2011. In 2011, I left residency and medicine due to medical leave (spinal fracture fully recovered now) and now applying to ERAS for anesthesiology this upcoming cycle.

While I'm applying, I was thinking it would be good to shadow an anesthesiologist, but I don't know what would be a good way to approach local gas doctors (I'm in San Diego). Originally, my idea was to just cold call anesthesiology practices and see if anyone would be interested but I thought I'd make a post to see if anyone had a good idea (i.e. how do I approach a gas doc with a "hat-in-my-hand" attitude?)

I’m sure there’s a regular poster on this board that could help you.
 
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Hi folks. I've been lurking in the gas forum for the past 8 months and decided to see if I can get any good advice on this topic.

Long story short, I was in a gen surg residency from 2009 to 2011. In 2011, I left residency and medicine due to medical leave (spinal fracture fully recovered now) and now applying to ERAS for anesthesiology this upcoming cycle.

While I'm applying, I was thinking it would be good to shadow an anesthesiologist, but I don't know what would be a good way to approach local gas doctors (I'm in San Diego). Originally, my idea was to just cold call anesthesiology practices and see if anyone would be interested but I thought I'd make a post to see if anyone had a good idea (i.e. how do I approach a gas doc with a "hat-in-my-hand" attitude?)

I hope your back is truly fully recovered, because anesthesiology is really tough on the back. Lots of people with back issues from the job
 
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What about talking to the anesthesiology program director at the institution where you did gen surg? Or try cold calling (or emailing) local academic departments if you've moved since and see if an observership is possible.

Also, I'm wondering, are your USMLEs still valid for ERAS? I'm guessing you already passed step 3...

I'm a US MD, and yes I did pass all 3 steps within 3-4 years. From what I understand, the scores are valid indefinitely.

I did my residency in Bay Area, and the anesthesiology attending from that time do not have any connections in San Diego (or they hate my guts. LOL).

I will call UCSD and see if they have observerships!
 
I hope your back is truly fully recovered, because anesthesiology is really tough on the back. Lots of people with back issues from the job


My back is fully recovered, but I do know of an attending who retired from anesthesia after she developed postmenopausal scoliosis. :(
 
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This one is unique. But being completely honest with you, this is not a good situation. Have you been doing any active clinical work since 2011? That’s 7 years absent from medicine - it will be very, VERY difficult to convince a program to take a chance on you straight up.

On some of the other forums there are notes of “recentry” programs for physicians like yourself, I believe based out of Ca. You should look into these. I don’t know anything about it, but such a long gap between clinical work is, to be frank, a likely insurmountable red flag. How would you go about getting LORs? How would you prove an interest in anesthesia?

You can certainly cold-call UCSD, but you won’t be likely to get far - that’s a very sought after area in medicine with very few open spots. You will probably have to repeat internship given the long period of inactivity - your best bet may be surgical prelim and then advanced anesthesia.

Also, I’m not sure if your USMLEs are still valid. I’ll try to look that up.
 
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This one is unique. But being completely honest with you, this is not a good situation. Have you been doing any active clinical work since 2011? That’s 7 years absent from medicine - it will be very, VERY difficult to convince a program to take a chance on you straight up.

On some of the other forums there are notes of “recentry” programs for physicians like yourself, I believe based out of Ca. You should look into these. I don’t know anything about it, but such a long gap between clinical work is, to be frank, a likely insurmountable red flag. How would you go about getting LORs? How would you prove an interest in anesthesia?

You can certainly cold-call UCSD, but you won’t be likely to get far - that’s a very sought after area in medicine with very few open spots. You will probably have to repeat internship given the long period of inactivity - your best bet may be surgical prelim and then advanced anesthesia.

Also, I’m not sure if your USMLEs are still valid. I’ll try to look that up.
Completely disagree with all of this. I did an internship in medicine, then left for a career outside of medicine for 8 years, then returned to medicine via anesthesia. I completed two observerships before starting residency. I just finished residency. What I would do is contact the PD or the anesthesia clerkship directors at any institution and inquire about observerships. I’d do it now and treat these observerships as away audition rotations in case you don’t get invited to many interviews.
 
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Also stop calling it “gas”.....when you were a surgeon did you call yourself a “knife doc”?
 
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(i.e. how do I approach a gas doc with a "hat-in-my-hand" attitude?)

Well, the first thing you'll need to do is stop referring to anesthesiologists as "gas docs." If you came up to me, "hat-in-hand" and referred to me in such a manner, you'd be leaving with a "foot-in-your-ass."
 
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Well, the first thing you'll need to do is stop referring to anesthesiologists as "gas docs." If you came up to me, "hat-in-hand" and referred to me in such a manner, you'd be leaving with a "foot-in-your-ass."

Exactly this.....

giphy-3.gif
 
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I am so glad this is pointed out to me. O.O Thank you!
About 90% of me is just trolling you but there other 10% is serious. Many surgeons, former surgeons, people from other specialties, etc view our field as "that easy alternative I can squeeze into if I hate my residency and still make cash", but you must respect the field. We talk a whole lot of smack on this forum but for the most part we take our field seriously and we appreciate it when others take it seriously. If you find your way into "GAS" you'll learn real quick that everyone and I mean EVERYONE thinks they can do your job if hospital admins let them, but there's a reason why that's not the case. There's a reason why many of these ER doc, GI doc, cardiologist, etc aren't allowed to dose propofol.

All I'm saying is if you want to find your way into the field then respect the field, if anything, for you future colleagues sake.
 
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Well, the first thing you'll need to do is stop referring to anesthesiologists as "gas docs." If you came up to me, "hat-in-hand" and referred to me in such a manner, you'd be leaving with a "foot-in-your-ass."
Yeah but if you are in the club is it ok to refer to yourself as "Gas"?
 
There's a reason why many of these ER doc, GI doc, cardiologist, etc aren't allowed to dose propofol.

Or even CCM docs. I was yelled by a CCM fellow for giving propofol, versed and fentanyl. Because it was way too much. ;)

Recently had a discussion on SDN with a few CCM IM/Anes trained intensivist about this issue. Sedation/vent management. It was even more fun at the end when a Peds intensivist and EM CCM chimed in.
 
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Or even CCM docs. I was yelled by a CCM fellow for giving propofol, versed and fentanyl. Because it was way too much. ;)

Recently had a discussion on SDN with a few CCM IM/Anes trained intensivist about this issue. Sedation/vent management. It was even more fun at the end when a Peds intensivist and EM CCM chimed in.

Why do you care what they say
 
Or even CCM docs. I was yelled by a CCM fellow for giving propofol, versed and fentanyl. Because it was way too much. ;)

Recently had a discussion on SDN with a few CCM IM/Anes trained intensivist about this issue. Sedation/vent management. It was even more fun at the end when a Peds intensivist and EM CCM chimed in.

That's ridiculous. Now one asks me to assist with sedation and then lectures me on how much to give. "Stay in yo lane" -Lavar Ball voice
 
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Many surgeons ... view our field as "that easy alternative I can squeeze into if I hate my residency and still make cash", but you must respect the field.

Twiggidy,

First of all, I apologize for my familiarity by the use of the term "gas doc."

I do respect the field of anesthesiology. This is my first time sitting down to gather my thoughts on this subject, so please bear with me.

After my spinal fracture, it was an anesthesiology attending who let me stay at her house, rent-free, for 2 years. During my stay, her family had "adopted" me as one of their own. They taught me things that I had not the opportunity to learn during my troubled upbringing. I am forever grateful for the generosity of my "mom" and her family. It's one of the things in my life I never want to let fade into the distance of memory. I even named my son after her late father, so he would ask me about his own name and I would tell him the story I’ve just told you.

Yes, I agree with you that a lot of surgeons share the view that you've described. Honestly, I do think about the money and lifestyle that my "mom" had and want to share that lifestyle with my wife and son. I do not deny that, but that doesn't mean that I do not respect the profession.

What is hard for me to express to strangers on internet forum is that I feel like a child who was forgiven for having made a big mistake. I don't know if it makes any sense when I say that I feel a serious debt towards the person who helped me back on my feet even though I was not her kin.

Late last year, I told her that I was thinking about going back into medicine and trying to match into anesthesiology. I remember how her voice changed into a happier tone when she heard that.. like she was proud of me, which in turn made me happy to know that something I am doing for my own benefit can bring her joy, too. I never had that in my childhood - approval and encouragement for something I wanted for myself.

That conversation was the validation of human relationships that I've very much sought in life, the joy that love can resonate in individual lives and relationships. I have to find meaning in what I do, if I want to take ownership of the choices I make. So that's how I find my personal meaning in anesthesiology as a profession. Having written this, it stings to admit that my use of the term “gas doc” on the anesthesiology forum was insolent.

I was in a difference place in life when I applied to general surgery while in medical school. Since then, I went through a handful of life-altering events and appreciate the value of intangible things a bit more. I used to think that anesthesia was only a means to the end - patients have to be asleep in order for surgeons to operate. But now I see that anesthesiologists do more than just control pain. They guide the patient through the unknown and become an anchor against the fear of having to undergo an operation. It's the stuff that even my mom rarely explained in an explicit terms but I've over time figured was what made her happy on a daily basis. What if I can do that for other people, too? Now that I am trying to start over, that's the art I find intriguing about anesthesiology, to ease a patient through the uncertainty and fear of pain.

Again, I apologize for the familiarity and will remember my position as an outsider until I have earned my way in. I know I am really rough around the edges as a person, but I am willing to listen and change for the better. I sincerely thank you for the advice and ask for more guidance and instruction from you as well as other anesthesiologists who wish to dispense them. I'm not here to let my ego shut out the opportunity to learn.

Thank you.

-A
 
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On the plus side, you've already got a helluva personal statement to submit with your applications
 
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Twiggidy,

First of all, I apologize for my familiarity by the use of the term "gas doc."

I do respect the field of anesthesiology. This is my first time sitting down to gather my thoughts on this subject, so please bear with me.

After my spinal fracture, it was an anesthesiology attending who let me stay at her house, rent-free, for 2 years. During my stay, her family had "adopted" me as one of their own. They taught me things that I had not the opportunity to learn during my troubled upbringing. I am forever grateful for the generosity of my "mom" and her family. It's one of the things in my life I never want to let fade into the distance of memory. I even named my son after her late father, so he would ask me about his own name and I would tell him the story I’ve just told you.

Yes, I agree with you that a lot of surgeons share the view that you've described. Honestly, I do think about the money and lifestyle that my "mom" had and want to share that lifestyle with my wife and son. I do not deny that, but that doesn't mean that I do not respect the profession.

What is hard for me to express to strangers on internet forum is that I feel like a child who was forgiven for having made a big mistake. I don't know if it makes any sense when I say that I feel a serious debt towards the person who helped me back on my feet even though I was not her kin.

Late last year, I told her that I was thinking about going back into medicine and trying to match into anesthesiology. I remember how her voice changed into a happier tone when she heard that.. like she was proud of me, which in turn made me happy to know that something I am doing for my own benefit can bring her joy, too. I never had that in my childhood - approval and encouragement for something I wanted for myself.

That conversation was the validation of human relationships that I've very much sought in life, the joy that love can resonate in individual lives and relationships. I have to find meaning in what I do, if I want to take ownership of the choices I make. So that's how I find my personal meaning in anesthesiology as a profession. Having written this, it stings to admit that my use of the term “gas doc” on the anesthesiology forum was insolent.

I was in a difference place in life when I applied to general surgery while in medical school. Since then, I went through a handful of life-altering events and appreciate the value of intangible things a bit more. I used to think that anesthesia was only a means to the end - patients have to be asleep in order for surgeons to operate. But now I see that anesthesiologists do more than just control pain. They guide the patient through the unknown and become an anchor against the fear of having to undergo an operation. It's the stuff that even my mom rarely explained in an explicit terms but I've over time figured was what made her happy on a daily basis. What if I can do that for other people, too? Now that I am trying to start over, that's the art I find intriguing about anesthesiology, to ease a patient through the uncertainty and fear of pain.

Again, I apologize for the familiarity and will remember my position as an outsider until I have earned my way in. I know I am really rough around the edges as a person, but I am willing to listen and change for the better. I sincerely thank you for the advice and ask for more guidance and instruction from you as well as other anesthesiologists who wish to dispense them. I'm not here to let my ego shut out the opportunity to learn.

Thank you.

-A

TL DR
 
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Twiggidy,

First of all, I apologize for my familiarity by the use of the term "gas doc."

I do respect the field of anesthesiology. This is my first time sitting down to gather my thoughts on this subject, so please bear with me.

After my spinal fracture, it was an anesthesiology attending who let me stay at her house, rent-free, for 2 years. During my stay, her family had "adopted" me as one of their own. They taught me things that I had not the opportunity to learn during my troubled upbringing. I am forever grateful for the generosity of my "mom" and her family. It's one of the things in my life I never want to let fade into the distance of memory. I even named my son after her late father, so he would ask me about his own name and I would tell him the story I’ve just told you.

Yes, I agree with you that a lot of surgeons share the view that you've described. Honestly, I do think about the money and lifestyle that my "mom" had and want to share that lifestyle with my wife and son. I do not deny that, but that doesn't mean that I do not respect the profession.

What is hard for me to express to strangers on internet forum is that I feel like a child who was forgiven for having made a big mistake. I don't know if it makes any sense when I say that I feel a serious debt towards the person who helped me back on my feet even though I was not her kin.

Late last year, I told her that I was thinking about going back into medicine and trying to match into anesthesiology. I remember how her voice changed into a happier tone when she heard that.. like she was proud of me, which in turn made me happy to know that something I am doing for my own benefit can bring her joy, too. I never had that in my childhood - approval and encouragement for something I wanted for myself.

That conversation was the validation of human relationships that I've very much sought in life, the joy that love can resonate in individual lives and relationships. I have to find meaning in what I do, if I want to take ownership of the choices I make. So that's how I find my personal meaning in anesthesiology as a profession. Having written this, it stings to admit that my use of the term “gas doc” on the anesthesiology forum was insolent.

I was in a difference place in life when I applied to general surgery while in medical school. Since then, I went through a handful of life-altering events and appreciate the value of intangible things a bit more. I used to think that anesthesia was only a means to the end - patients have to be asleep in order for surgeons to operate. But now I see that anesthesiologists do more than just control pain. They guide the patient through the unknown and become an anchor against the fear of having to undergo an operation. It's the stuff that even my mom rarely explained in an explicit terms but I've over time figured was what made her happy on a daily basis. What if I can do that for other people, too? Now that I am trying to start over, that's the art I find intriguing about anesthesiology, to ease a patient through the uncertainty and fear of pain.

Again, I apologize for the familiarity and will remember my position as an outsider until I have earned my way in. I know I am really rough around the edges as a person, but I am willing to listen and change for the better. I sincerely thank you for the advice and ask for more guidance and instruction from you as well as other anesthesiologists who wish to dispense them. I'm not here to let my ego shut out the opportunity to learn.

Thank you.

-A

Great story. But stories won’t get you back into medicine - it’s been nearly 8 years since you’ve been active in medicine and 2 entire med school cycles have gone by. That’s a lot of new grads with more up to date knowledge - what have you done to keep your skills and info up? Have you done anything at all in the past 8 years?

Programs will probably have to assume they will have to teach you more than the average resident since your understanding of basic Pharm and phys has almost certainly atrophied severely. I would work to remind yourself of these topics (hopefully in a formal manner) before heading back to medicine.

I’m trying to be a realist for you. These would be my concerns as a residency app reviewer. Address this in the PS.
 
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I'm in San Diego PP. Not sue I can help much. Not sure if you can shadow without going through the hospital to get privileges to visit. And I don't know if I'd be able to let you do very much in the OR legally either since you're not a medical student or resident with malpractice coverage.


Not sure how I can help. But I'd be happy to if I can.
 
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Great story. But stories won’t get you back into medicine - it’s been nearly 8 years since you’ve been active in medicine and 2 entire med school cycles have gone by. That’s a lot of new grads with more up to date knowledge - what have you done to keep your skills and info up? Have you done anything at all in the past 8 years?

Programs will probably have to assume they will have to teach you more than the average resident since your understanding of basic Pharm and phys has almost certainly atrophied severely. I would work to remind yourself of these topics (hopefully in a formal manner) before heading back to medicine.

I’m trying to be a realist for you. These would be my concerns as a residency app reviewer. Address this in the PS.

I have been doing CMEs during that time to keep my license renewed but I feel like that was nowhere near enough. I am trying to shadow an anesthesiologist for this reason. Observership will be good, too.
 
I'm in San Diego PP. Not sue I can help much. Not sure if you can shadow without going through the hospital to get privileges to visit. And I don't know if I'd be able to let you do very much in the OR legally either since you're not a medical student or resident with malpractice coverage.


Not sure how I can help. But I'd be happy to if I can.

Thank you! I’ll send you a message.
 
I have been doing CMEs during that time to keep my license renewed but I feel like that was nowhere near enough. I am trying to shadow an anesthesiologist for this reason. Observership will be good, too.

That’s a start, smart of you to keep your license up!
 
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That’s a start, smart of you to keep your license up!

Every time I paid the renewal fee, I was wondering why I had to keep my license renewed if I wasn’t using it. I only did it because my mom and a good buddy from residency told me that I must keep it renewed.

Now that I’m going back into medicine, I’m glad I listened to those two.
 
Every time I paid the renewal fee, I was wondering why I had to keep my license renewed if I wasn’t using it. I only did it because my mom and a good buddy from residency told me that I must keep it renewed.

Now that I’m going back into medicine, I’m glad I listened to those two.

Another good bit of advice may be to just "make yourself visible" at a program, no matter what specialty you decide. As AdmiralChz said, it's an uphill battle now, so to make yourself know to the PDs could help. Go to conferences or try to work in the dept doing research or something like that so when your application comes across the table they'll say "hey, i know this guy". As we all know, in today's world, a lot of getting ahead is "who you know".
 
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Another good bit of advice may be to just "make yourself visible" at a program, no matter what specialty you decide. As AdmiralChz said, it's an uphill battle now, so to make yourself know to the PDs could help. Go to conferences or try to work in the dept doing research or something like that so when your application comes across the table they'll say "hey, i know this guy". As we all know, in today's world, a lot of getting ahead is "who you know".

Hi, Twiggidy.

Thank you for the input. Especially the part about doing research for a department.

I've written a number of papers, two textbook translations, and worked as a research consultant for the past 6 years in Korea. Writing up a paper is somewhat natural to me; I have been able to push semi-abandoned research projects to publication in the past.

Do you suppose I can volunteer to write up papers for a department (provided that I'm not ghostwriting)? Should I send a letter of introduction and ask if they have any overdue papers that need to be written, revised, and/or submitted? I would like to do that, but I don't want to sound all weird by asking, "can I help to clean out your backed up research pipeline?"

I am not a smooth communicator but want to improve. Much appreciate your feedback!

-A
 
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