Shadowing Hour Requirements and COVID-19

[cryingintheclub]

Hey all, I know there's been a few threads posted here about a similar topic but I wanted to receive some more input. I recently switched from pre-med to pre-dental last summer, and got about only 30 hours of shadowing from a general dentist. The following fall semester was going to be my most difficult, so I saved shadowing time for the spring semester. Jokes on me though, COVID happened. I've recently interviewed with a dental assisting program that heavily hinted they would hire me once the offices open, but even if I don't ultimately officially receive that position, I would definitely continue shadowing into my gap year. But even that is questionable, because um COVID vaccine wya?

I was wondering if anyone had any input on admissions in general with low shadowing hours (I have plenty of hours in medically related volunteering, but idk if that's relevant) or whether admissions considerations have changed under the current circumstances. I was also wondering for advice on whether I should apply this year or wait for next year (though it is questionable even then if I'd receive enough shadowing by next year. Because COVID. haha).

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[Ivy.ch]

COVID is COVID. You do what you can. Apply. 30 is plenty.

 

[doc toothache]

The number of shadowing hours may or may not be a deal breaker, but your grip on understanding what dentistry is all about and what you’re getting yourself into will be most critical.

 

[cryingintheclub]

The number of shadowing hours may or may not be a deal breaker, but your grip on understanding what dentistry is all about and what you’re getting yourself into will be most critical.

Thank you! Do dental schools seriously consider the prospective dental shadowing hours that applicants list down or no? I received positive word from two positions that may involve dental assisting/shadowing, but of course this is all contingent on whether they'd allow me to assist/shadow during covid.

 

[doc toothache]

The single most important factor in admission if the commitment to the chosen profession and it will trump stelar metrics every day of the week and twice on Sunday. DA position are not awarded extra points, unless you want to count the gold stars for the effort.

 

[laundry]

Contact schools and inquire; shadowing is not just a numeric prerequisite. You have to demonstrate that you have at least some basic first person encounter and experience w/ the profession you are about to commit your life to. Don't take this metric too lightly.

 

[MLC45]

I had been a dental assistant for over 10 years so I only did about 30-40 hours in speciality offices as a shadow. I actually had one school send me an e-mail stating they were putting my application on hold because I didn’t have the full shadowing hours and they would release it for review after I sent in documentation that I had finished the full amount. I thought that was a little crazy.

 

[doc toothache]

The single most important factor in admission is the commitment to the chosen profession and it will trump stelar metrics every day of the week and twice on Sunday. DA position are not awarded extra points, unless you want to count the gold stars for the effort.

I had been a dental assistant for over 10 years so I only did about 30-40 hours in speciality offices as a shadow. I actually had one school send me an e-mail stating they were putting my application on hold because I didn’t have the full shadowing hours and they would release it for review after I sent in documentation that I had finished the full amount. I thought that was a little crazy.

The adcom in question must have read your application late Friday or on Monday with a severe hangover.

 

[biochem5]

It will probably be fine given the circumstances. I applied with 40 hours in 2012. I didn't apply to any schools that had a strict minimum. But do you really want to switch to dentistry? It's moving into a commission only based job/pay with none or barely any benefits. This is problematic because there's a lot that's out of your control as an associate - your crown patient cancels that you were counting on to make money for the day, the front desk forgot to confirm or schedule a patient, the patient didn't like the experience they had with the assistant and so doesn't schedule for the rest of the treatment plan with you.

If you do get a base salary, the daily rate right now is the same as it was in early 2000's. Unlike medicine, which still has a high base salary (I see this in medical based facebook groups I'm in) plus a commission production bonus on top.

 

[monkeykey]

It will probably be fine given the circumstances. I applied with 40 hours in 2012. I didn't apply to any schools that had a strict minimum. But do you really want to switch to dentistry? It's moving into a commission only based job/pay with none or barely any benefits. This is problematic because there's a lot that's out of your control as an associate - your crown patient cancels that you were counting on to make money for the day, the front desk forgot to confirm or schedule a patient, the patient didn't like the experience they had with the assistant and so doesn't schedule for the rest of the treatment plan with you.

If you do get a base salary, the daily rate right now is the same as it was in early 2000's. Unlike medicine, which still has a high base salary (I see this in medical based facebook groups I'm in) plus a commission production bonus on top.

Comparison will rob you of joy.

 

[biochem5]

Comparison will rob you of joy.

?????
OP already has all medical extracurriculars and switched to dentistry while "saving shadowing for later". I'm being honest about the current state of the field...I'm a practicing dentist not a pre-dent.

 

[monkeykey]

?????
OP already has all medical extracurriculars and switched to dentistry while "saving shadowing for later". I'm being honest about the current state of the field...I'm a practicing dentist not a pre-dent.

How has dentistry been different from your expectation?

 

[biochem5]

How has dentistry been different from your expectation?

Sure the expectation is dentists have a level of freedom/control over how they want to practice. When I applied the common theme on sdn/dentaltown was to work for 2-3 years as an associate either Corp or private with an ok base salary then buy a practice and own. It was actually easier for me to get an associate job several years ago when I was straight out of school versus with experience. now u need to do several speciality procedures just to get a general dentistry job. Insurances pay a lot Less to dentists than years ago. As far as buying a practice, the good producing Private practices are being bought by groups before the doctor retires, the ones that are left for sale do not make financial sense to buy.

 

[ToothJockey]

As far as buying a practice, the good producing Private practices are being bought by groups before the doctor retires, the ones that are left for sale do not make financial sense to buy.

How do you suggest dentists go into ownership today? Build their own practice from scratch?

 

[biochem5]

How do you suggest dentists go into ownership today? Build their own practice from scratch?

Good question I’m trying to figure it out! Have to convince the dentists in the area u want to be in to sell to you instead of “North American dental group” “dental care alliance” “dynamic dental partners” . Start ups have their own different set of challenges too. I just didn’t expect there would be so many barriers to entry.

 

[cryingintheclub]

Contact schools and inquire; shadowing is not just a numeric prerequisite. You have to demonstrate that you have at least some basic first person encounter and experience w/ the profession you are about to commit your life to. Don't take this metric too lightly.

So update, I've heard back from some schools, and I've been seeing what people have heard from other schools. Certain schools like Ohio State are keeping their hours requirements (though, I just found out it isn't OOS-friendly, so I wouldn't apply anyway). Different schools told me different combinations of the following -

• They're dropping their minimum requirements and would consider my application
• They encourage me to shadow as soon as clinics open (but is this smart or ethical to do so when procedures still require heavy PPE clinics might be running short on? and in general, without a vaccine existing? Florida clinics are reopening I believe, but I still feel the situation is still dangerous)
• I would not be at a disadvantage or "punished" with low shadowing hours, as they understand we live in very unprecedented circumstances
• They would value if I continued looking through online dental procedures, completing CE courses, and/or calling dentists (though ofc no substitute for the real thing)
• They will review applications holistically

I'm not quite sure what to make of all this. Should I take what the representatives are saying at face value if this information hasn't been published on the school websites yet? How "holistic" can the application get?

 

[spicyturtleneck]

So update, I've heard back from some schools, and I've been seeing what people have heard from other schools. Certain schools like Ohio State are keeping their hours requirements (though, I just found out it isn't OOS-friendly, so I wouldn't apply anyway). Different schools told me different combinations of the following -

• They're dropping their minimum requirements and would consider my application
• They encourage me to shadow as soon as clinics open (but is this smart or ethical to do so when procedures still require heavy PPE clinics might be running short on? and in general, without a vaccine existing? Florida clinics are reopening I believe, but I still feel the situation is still dangerous)
• I would not be at a disadvantage or "punished" with low shadowing hours, as they understand we live in very unprecedented circumstances
• They would value if I continued looking through online dental procedures, completing CE courses, and/or calling dentists (though ofc no substitute for the real thing)
• They will review applications holistically

I'm not quite sure what to make of all this. Should I take what the representatives are saying at face value if this information hasn't been published on the school websites yet? How "holistic" can the application get?

Hey memelover! By any chance, do you remember which schools have said that? I'm in a similar situation as you are. I've worked at a periodontist office for a few years now, but I'm not sure if I can count that as shadowing. I was going to start shadowing in March, but then COVID happened. I only found one office that was willing to let me shadow, but so far I only have three hours, which is stressing me out, so I guess knowing a couple of schools that are lenient with shadowing might help me decide if I should apply this cycle or not.