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Don't get me wrong, I agree that the legal circumstances are completely different.
It's just that some neurosurgeons don't seem to worry about that kind of thing.
shadowing is corny crap
- Thread starter dittozip
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Don't get me wrong, I agree that the legal circumstances are completely different.
It's just that some neurosurgeons don't seem to worry about that kind of thing.
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I'm not sure what the point of it is either. How many pre-meds actually change their minds about medicine after a shadowing experience, or come to any new conclusions at all? It really does seem like one of the more worthless time-wasters pre-meds engage in (right up there with the various pre-meds clubs and "fraternities"). I'm sure the physicians could also do without the little pre-meds nipping at their heels all day like spaniels. If it doesn't make any kind of substantive difference to the student, and there are no external benefits to anyone else (as there is in volunteering, typically), it really is just another pointless hoop to jump through.
Yeah I suppose that's true of any field not just neurosurgeons.
As per VMCs post, yeah I see your point but as you said its a hoop they want us to jump through that's why we do it. I think the thing with shadowing is that you can't really understand a doctor's life by standing there for 2 hours watching them in a clinic or even 5-6 hours. You can only understand if you stay there in the hospital for a good week 24/7 when they are on call and see how rough the conditions are at times. And realistically no one sees that which is why its hard to gauge the true meaning of being a doctor until you are in med school and residency and beyond. Its hard to understand something by watching someone else's experience until you yourself have experienced it. That's the same for any experience in life be it job related or not. Its like watching a married couple and saying you know what its like to be married by you don't until you are married because every person's experience is different.
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Yes, I'm sure for some, it does give them a better understanding of what it's "like" to be a doctor. But I wonder whether that actually makes any difference. Usually by the time someone's shadowing, they're so heavily invested in the idea of becoming a doctor that there's not much new information they could come by, save for a new edict that all doctors' salaries are henceforth capped at $70k per annum, that could possibly further influence their decision to go into medicine one way or the other. I also agree with your point that even spending a full day shadowing gives only the most meager glimpse of what it is to be a doctor. You're not getting the all-night call schedules, the emotional weight of telling someone's family that their loved one is dead, etc. It's a pointless little excursion, essentially, a pre-med field trip. Organic chemistry causes people to reevaluate their decision (or chances) to go to med school; I doubt shadowing as any kind of real effect.
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thanks a lot! you made me snort mountain dew out my nose!
(I must learn not to eat or drink while reading this forum)
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thanks a lot! you made me snort mountain dew out my nose!
Yes, thank you.... Why is there further ******ing to try and prove this person grabbed a freaking SCAPEL and DRILL and went to freaking town on someones head. Neuro's are a weird bunch??? So weird they would want to be removed from medicine because of some punk PREMED... LOL, the kid might not even get in.
Come on... for the guy who said they were an MS3... Do you not see the difference between you and a PREMED????
I have never understood the point of pre-med clubs. At my school it seems more or less an opportunity for the truly obsessive to sit around and enforce the habit with each other.
Oh wait, that sounds a bit like SDN. 😳
I enjoyed my shadowing experience that I had over my winter break. I'm not entirely sure if I learned a whole ton, but it certainly reinforced some ideas that I had about medicine. Especially the importance of being bilingual if you want to live in a city (which I do). Oh, and the fact that I got to meet the Dean of Admissions for a top med school. Not gonna lie, that was pretty sweet. Now I just hope he remembers me....😱
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Concur.
Suggestion: Keep a list of all the crud people spew about on here and when you are ultimately accepted with good grades and high MCAT score, post one last thread bidding adieu to all the losers comparing volunteer hours.
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*shrug* I took it more as them joking about it. Which is why it made me laugh.
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I did absolutely zero shadowing. If you don't want to shadow, there are many other ways to get clinical experience/exposure. If you're just doing it because you think it will look good on your application, then yes, it is corny crap. If you're doing it because you're actually interested, then it could turn out to be a valuable experience.
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i didn't bother to read the other posts, but i'd like to add my opinion:
volunteering is a lousy introduction to medicine, shadowing is a great experience. when i volunteered, it was horrible - i restocked things for one hour and was forced to stand in a corner for the remaining three hours. when i shadowed, i was shown the ropes, asked to diagnose several patients, and learned things many med students don't even know. most people only volunteer to show that they "care" about helping people to impress adcoms... total b.s.
in summary, volunteering is pointless, shadowing is not.
volunteering is a lousy introduction to medicine, shadowing is a great experience. when i volunteered, it was horrible - i restocked things for one hour and was forced to stand in a corner for the remaining three hours. when i shadowed, i was shown the ropes, asked to diagnose several patients, and learned things many med students don't even know. most people only volunteer to show that they "care" about helping people to impress adcoms... total b.s.
in summary, volunteering is pointless, shadowing is not.
I understand you on this and also told the other poster the same sort of thing. The exception of those people who got to do things as a premed were with people who had extremely good credentials and were medical school bound that I knew of. But they only did sutures and not anything like drilling a hold into someone's skull. The case above however with the neurosurgery dept. is a bit too much.
I've said this many times on SDN, but I've always felt that most premed clubs tend to be like an easy way out of not having to take the initiative to get opportunities without having to seek them out yourself. In other words, this is a way for premeds who don't want to contact volunteer places to get vol. opps just by signing up with the club coordinators. People who don't want to find shadowing on their own use these clubs for that too and the cycle continues.
I think the only interesting premed clubs we have are the biomedical ethics club and the Co-Sign (College student interest group in neuroscience and neurology) because they bring up valid lecturers which discuss a wide variety of topics beyond your basic how to get into med school convo.
As is true of almost any premed EC.
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I volunteered at a pharmacy/shadowed a pharmacist. Thanks to that experience pharmacy was completely checked off my list. I had the opposite reaction shadowing a physician.
It is not total crap though I do understand how annoying going through the motions is. I volunteered in an ER. I felt like the kid at lunch who has no one to sit with.
It is not total crap though I do understand how annoying going through the motions is. I volunteered in an ER. I felt like the kid at lunch who has no one to sit with.
D
da8s0859q
I definitely don't think shadowing is crap. In my opinion, it gives you more of a chance to feel things out from the doctor's point of view far more than volunteering does.
I've shadowed, I dunno, about 15 hours thus far with an FM doc not far away from me, and it's nice to get a chance to talk to the man about what he's done to get there, get his advice on the field, have some clinical exposure from that side of the patient's room, that sort of thing. I'm trying to spend some more time with another IM doctor who was recommended to me for many of the same reasons.
HUGE +1 to the comment about how intent in doing the activities matters more than the activity itself.
I've shadowed, I dunno, about 15 hours thus far with an FM doc not far away from me, and it's nice to get a chance to talk to the man about what he's done to get there, get his advice on the field, have some clinical exposure from that side of the patient's room, that sort of thing. I'm trying to spend some more time with another IM doctor who was recommended to me for many of the same reasons.
HUGE +1 to the comment about how intent in doing the activities matters more than the activity itself.
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I've helped with sutures before. Know what I did? Held the scissors and cut the line where she pointed.
This goes with anything you do. You get what you make of it. Your experience is up to you. You determine what kind of experience you have. Don't expect someone to read your mind and know exactly what questions you have, what you're wondering, etc. Don't expect someone to open up to a law suit because you want to do something. Ask questions. Learn to read the physician a little and know when they're getting too busy, deep in thought, or when they're open to questions (as a doctor, you're going to have to learn how to read people anyway).
If you shadow someone who doesn't want you involved too much, work to earn the trust of that physician or look for another shadow while shadowing that physician. If you find someone better, go with that. If not, it's better than nothing.
You can glean something from any experience you have. No experience is useless unless you make it useless.
Ain't that the truth.
When I "volunteered" at a local hospital I did little more that stand in a corner for 3 hours trying to not get in people's way. It was miserable. They had way too many volunteers and thus had nothing for us to do. What a waste of time. I now help out at an assisted living facility, where my presence does actually make a difference.
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From my personal experience both shadowing and volunteering have been very fufilling and insightful in very different ways. The shadowing has been very interesting learning how to look at films and bedside manner with different types of patients with different needs (some tough love and others more support). Ive been shadowing a neurosurgeon who is really kind of famous, but I didnt ask to shadow him because of that, I wanted to shadow him because he is very personable and also very active in humanitarian work and he has shown me a lot in how he is able to incorporate all these things and still be succesful and happy with his family. To be frank he is like my role model so I am enjoying this experience a lot.
with volunteering, I dont want to sound judgemental but Ive noticed that many premeds who get nothing out of it are the ones who already think they are superior to the nurses who work the unit/ward/floor etc. I make an attempt to get along and give them their due respect and for that they have been introducing me to different doctors and getting me into the or so i can watch surgeries as well as watch follow up visits and and overall just A LOT of things that Im getting my hands on. I really think its the attitude you go into it with, and I know from personal experience that SOME (not all!!!) premeds are already holding themselves in higher esteem than the nurses and other technicians that work in a hospital that righ tnow know a lot more than we do about medicine and a hospital...
but hey thats just what i think... 🙄
with volunteering, I dont want to sound judgemental but Ive noticed that many premeds who get nothing out of it are the ones who already think they are superior to the nurses who work the unit/ward/floor etc. I make an attempt to get along and give them their due respect and for that they have been introducing me to different doctors and getting me into the or so i can watch surgeries as well as watch follow up visits and and overall just A LOT of things that Im getting my hands on. I really think its the attitude you go into it with, and I know from personal experience that SOME (not all!!!) premeds are already holding themselves in higher esteem than the nurses and other technicians that work in a hospital that righ tnow know a lot more than we do about medicine and a hospital...
but hey thats just what i think... 🙄
