Should I apply and what are my chances of getting in?

[segapaz]

I see my room-mate, a med student, and his course load is so easy compared to mine, a pharmacy student. I mean we have to learn so much nonsense that it is just seems stupid.

For example, we have to memorize drug cards and some definitions for the sake of memorization for having them on a quiz. There is no reasoning at all as we don't know a thing about them except the facts written on the cards.

Then some of our professors(both MD and Pharmacy professors teach us) are really nonchalant about us being like 2nd class citizens and how we have to check over the the doctors do. The more I learn about it in the class, the more the middle man I feel like it and less interested I become in this subject.

Hell I am thinking of dropping out and trying the whole MCAT thing again because I am really not getting into the whole pharmaceutical thing minus the research part, which was first reason that I entered to do a Pharm D. Like we learn something only partially, but not the whole thing. This does not motivate me at all and that's why I my grades have suck so far here in Pharmacy school. If I want to learn or teach us something they teach us the whole thing instead just bits and pieces of it as it does not make sense like how it is medical school. Plus I used my room-mate's book once and my God the book laid everything down so we could memorize and learn about it perfectly withou any trouble. Unlike our textbooks which are filled garble that is not required on the test.

What do you guys think? I mean its a huge investment of time, energy, and money to go through all this. Would Medical look down upon me if I dropped out or got dismissed and applied to Medical school for the following year?

Basically there is no reasoning behind what we are being taught and that makes me a bit depressed compared to Med students as they are have a basis why they are being taught those particular subjects.

PS: Also I am getting more and more interested in the pathology of things then just the physiology that we are taught.

PSS: I did take the the MCATs with little study while I was an undergraduate last year. I did terrible on them because of lack of study.


Bachelors of Science: in Biochemistry and Biology
GPA: 3.536
Graduated with Honors (Cum Laude)...
Its just I need a good MCAT score to get in, which I did not get when I tried. That's why I took the PCATs and got into Pharmacy school as backup after hating working in retail Pharmacy for a year and half.
I did a lot of research as an Undergraduate (on fungus growth more of a Bioinformatic project, and Spermogenesis writing SOPs, using TEMS, and stuff like that), and received a fellowship for a summer research project aka SURF as well.
My science GPA is between 3.2-3.3 guess... errr... I retook Organic.

Here are some of extracurricular activities:

Presentations:
Neuropharmacological Study Presentation (May 2008) won first prize (100 dollars and was group leader)
SURF Fellowship Roundtable Presentation at Seton Hall University (July 26, 2007)
Petersheim Academic Exposition (April 15-17 2008) - 1 Presentation 1) Spermagenesis
Petersheim Academic Exposition (April 15-17 2007)- 2 presentations - 1) Spermagenesis and Fungi Growth Simulator (1st Author)

Research:
Fall Semester Research-continued from Jan 07: (September 2007- May 08)
SURF (Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowship) (Summer 2007) <-Received a 4,000 grant to do research...

Spring Semester Research: Spermatogenesis(January 2007 – Present)
Summer Research: Fungus Growth Simulator (April 2006 – August 2006)

Activities:
Biology Society, Seton Hall University, President, (Spring 2007 - Spring 08)
Biology Society, Seton Hall University, Website & Advertising Committee Chairman, (Fall 2007 - Spring 08)
AED Pre-Medicine Honor Society , Seton Hall University, Website Chairman, (Spring 2007 - Spring 08)
American Chemical Society,Seton Hall University,Website Chairman & Representative,(Fall 2007-Spring 08)
MAPS, Seton Hall University, Website and Internet Relationship Representative, (Fall 2007 – Spring 08)
Prince of Persia Legacy, Webmaster and Owner, (Spring 2000 – Present)

Accolades:
-Invited and Guest Speaker for the Seton Hall University's 150 year anniversary to discuss my research and experience at Seton Hall University. (April 2008)
-Hub Digital Living Magazine:
Article accolades Prince of Persia Legacy in Hub Digital Living Magazine (April 2006)

Worked at Walgreen's Pharmacy from Jan 07 to August 08...

Are my activities good or should I do some more???

PSSS: I just got dismissed from my pharmacy school.... Due to poor grades, which are honestly due to pharmacy was not interesting to me at all after getting into it. I was wrong and it was mistake for me go in. I should have waited a year applied for Medical school.

PSSSS: I am looking NY/NJ/north east schools (preferred)....

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[WeAreNotRobots]

A few things:
1. Too much.
2. "PS" stands for "post script"...so "PSSSS" means you are trying to whisper to me?
3. Your stats are below average for those admitted to med school, and that bad record at pharm school may work against you

If you're serious about med school, though, it's never too late. Gain some exposure (actually A LOT!) and see if it's really for you--you don't want to make the same mistake twice. Then if you decide it's right for you, go attack the MCAT properly, and think about a postbacc to boost your grades.

Also you seem to be strong in research. How about a research-based pharmaceutical career, or going for a PhD? There are many other things to do that may really interest you!

 

[J ROD]

PSSSSS: With being dismissed from another professional program, I think your chances are very poor!

I am in pharm school right now and I agree with some of what you said but I have a 3.9+. I might not love it but I still beat it down.

If you can not handle pharm school (I nor they will care about excuses why), how are you going to handle med school?

The only chance you really have is a 36+ MCAT and some luck...for a US MD.

 

[Mobius1985]

I don't think any med school would touch you unless many years go by and you've proven that you can carry through on a commitment you've made. That you've failed out of pharmacy school will be a huge red flag. To redeem yourself, if you truly feel a calling to medicine, I'd suggest you get yourself into a science-based masters program, that has the potential to transition into a PhD, and get a GPA of near 4.0. Until you get accepted to that, take more undergrad classes and get your uGPA higher. Meanwhile, start volunteering somewhere where you have face-to-face interaction with sick people. You will need a few years of this on your application to demonstrate some commitment to a medical career. Eventually shadow physicians you meet while volunteering. The time you spent at the pharmacy window giving education to patients (if you did this) would also count as clinical experience, but is not sufficient. Your research background and leadership experiences are terrific as they are. Finally, you need a better answer for why you failed in pharmacy school. One should go into medicine because they can't be fulfilled in any other way, not because they hated what they were doing.

 

[segapaz]

I thought medical schools only look at your undergraduate transcript and the ECs and LORs....

Yeah sorry about those PSs.... I got kind of excessive on them.

 

[TheMagicCookie]

Med schools look at your Undergrad GPA, LOR's and EC's when the farthest you've gotten is a bachelor's...you've gone farther and were accepted to a professional program and, unfortunately, were dismissed. Med schools will most definitely take into account your performance in Pharm school. Others please feel free to correct me on the latter statements.

You'll be fighting an uphill battle from here on out, but I don't think it's necessarily impossible in the future for you to go med school if you prove yourself. Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

 

[flip26]

Flunking out of Pharm school is the kiss of death for you RE med schools...I do not know how you can ever fix this one, but if you are to have a chance, it probably entails a "long" period of GPA enhancement (UG and possibly an SMP or a masters program) plus a really big MCAT score plus a huge amount of volunteer/clinical work - I think you are looking at 4 years or more in the "woodshed" for your rehab...

 

[segapaz]

Med schools look at your Undergrad GPA, LOR's and EC's when the farthest you've gotten is a bachelor's...you've gone farther and were accepted to a professional program and, unfortunately, were dismissed. Med schools will most definitely take into account your performance in Pharm school. Others please feel free to correct me on the latter statements.

You'll be fighting an uphill battle from here on out, but I don't think it's necessarily impossible in the future for you to go med school if you prove yourself. Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

It was only after 1 semester though...

If I do a 2 years master program aka neuroscience and then take a year off to volunteer and study for the MCATs and do well on them. Should that be a good idea then...

How about Caribbean Medical Schools like AUA and Saba?

 

[flip26]

It was only after 1 semester though...

That is irrelevant.

Dude, you are being a little dense here. Flunking out of Pharm school was a very stupid thing to do for someone aspiring to attend med school...you should have withdrawn from school or negotiated a withdrawal with the school admin to save yourself from this disaster.

You have a black mark on your academic record that no amount of rehab will ever erase...you may overcome it, but it will take years and years of hard work, and even then, you may never get an acceptance to med school.

 

[Mobius1985]

How about Caribbean Medical Schools like AUA and Saba?

If you have a good credit rating, I'm sure a Caribbean school will accept you, but consider that you'd only have a 50% chance of getting a residency in the US, if you aren't a victim of their high attrition rates. Read more on the issue in the International Medical Forum/Caribbean: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=90

 

[Mobius1985]

I think you are looking at 4 years or more in the "woodshed" for your rehab...

For US MD and DO schools, I agree.

 

[TheMagicCookie]

Hell I am thinking of dropping out and trying the whole MCAT thing again

PSSS: I just got dismissed from my pharmacy school.... Due to poor grades, which are honestly due to pharmacy was not interesting to me at all after getting into it. I was wrong and it was mistake for me go in. I should have waited a year applied for Medical school.

OP, you have said two different things in your original post. Are you still a Pharm student, or have you officially been dismissed? What are you talking about dropping out of if you've already been dismissed?

I went back and read your first post and wanted to focus on some of the good points in your possible app besides the negative. Your EC's seem impressive. Your research and presentations are a plus, no doubt. It seems like you were on the right track in undergrad(you did get accepted to PharmD afterall).

That's why I took the PCATs and got into Pharmacy school as backup after hating working in retail Pharmacy for a year and half

Can I ask why you chose to pursue Pharm school when you knew how much you hated working in the field for so long? If I hated my job at the hospital that I currently have, I would take that as a red flag that it probably isn't what I'm meant to do.

PSS: I did take the the MCATs with little study while I was an undergraduate last year. I did terrible on them because of lack of study.

How low was the MCAT when you took it last year? That is another potential problem that you will face when dealing with adcoms...basically on paper they are going to see 1) an attempt at the MCAT, with less than favorable results 2) an acceptance to Pharm school following the MCAT 3) a dismissal from the Pharm program and 4) lack of medical experience(this is if you were to apply in the near future.

 

[J ROD]

Just go to Caribbean and start med school.

That is probably the only chance you will have after trying to repair anyway.

Why waste the time, money, and effort?

If you are good enough, you can make it out of there at St. George, AUC, SABA, or Ross.

There are a few others that are decent.

Some school down there will gladly take your money to give you an outside shot.

Time to see how bad you really want it....

 

[J ROD]

I forgot to mention that you probably would have a hard time even getting into the Big 4 I mentioned above.

SABA would be your best option. St. George and Ross are stretches and AUC more than likely too.

 

[segapaz]

OP, you have said two different things in your original post. Are you still a Pharm student, or have you officially been dismissed? What are you talking about dropping out of if you've already been dismissed?

I went back and read your first post and wanted to focus on some of the good points in your possible app besides the negative. Your EC's seem impressive. Your research and presentations are a plus, no doubt. It seems like you were on the right track in undergrad(you did get accepted to PharmD afterall).



Can I ask why you chose to pursue Pharm school when you knew how much you hated working in the field for so long? If I hated my job at the hospital that I currently have, I would take that as a red flag that it probably isn't what I'm meant to do.




How low was the MCAT when you took it last year? That is another potential problem that you will face when dealing with adcoms...basically on paper they are going to see 1) an attempt at the MCAT, with less than favorable results 2) an acceptance to Pharm school following the MCAT 3) a dismissal from the Pharm program and 4) lack of medical experience(this is if you were to apply in the near future.

I got dismissed already... I could still appeal it though...

I liked research during my undergraduate years and I though to pursue a Pharm D as it will be more research oriented for talking to my pharmacist.

But when I actually got to school, we were having 7 different professors teaching Anatomy and Physiology and the questions were all over the place as I never took A&P before so it was a bit trying to adjust to everything when everyone else had already taken it or had 4 semesters worth of those classes while I was coming as someone new to it. Also I became more interested in the pathology of things as pharmacy student. But we had to learn that stuff, but we were never tested on it...

I never planned in going to retail pharmacy at all, which I made clear during my Pharmacy Interview.

I received a 24R(PS: 9 V:6 BS: 9)on my MCAT and I was told it was too low to get in any Medical school here. Verbal was the weakest due it being my 2nd language... So then I decided to take PCATs out of the whim.

I have shadowed a few doctors and been in the ER as a volunteer just watching their activity and stuff. So I know whats going to happen if I did pursue Medicine...

 

[segapaz]

I forgot to mention that you probably would have a hard time even getting into the Big 4 I mentioned above.

SABA would be your best option. St. George and Ross are stretches and AUC more than likely too.

How about AUA, American University of Antigua??? Two of my good friends are there... They have good things to say about that place...

 

[J ROD]

How about AUA, American University of Antigua??? Two of my good friends are there... They have good things to say about that place...

That is a decent school from what I have read and heard on here.

It is in the second tier down there as far as they are ranked on SDN.

I would try SABA first and AUA second.

Just be sure you know how hard it is coming from there. Talk to your friends.

You probably do not even need to take the MCAT again for them with a 24 if it is within the time frame of acceptance.

 

[TheMagicCookie]

I got dismissed already... I could still appeal it though...

If medicine is what you truly think you want to do then I suggest you exhaust every effort to appeal that decision. You'll be in a much better situation if you can get the black mark of being dismissed taken care of, IMO.

 

[J ROD]

If medicine is what you truly think you want to do then I suggest you exhaust every effort to appeal that decision. You'll be in a much better situation if you can get the black mark of being dismissed taken care of, IMO.

Yeah, definitely try this!! That is the most detrimental part you have on your app.

 

[flip26]

If medicine is what you truly think you want to do then I suggest you exhaust every effort to appeal that decision. You'll be in a much better situation if you can get the black mark of being dismissed taken care of, IMO.

He should appeal and beg to be allowed to continue.

Then he should "suck it up" and knock it out of the park next semester.

After that, he could walk away from Pharm school with some dignity...he would still have lots of explaining to do, but this is the fastest and best way to overcome his first semester.

 

[segapaz]

That is a decent school from what I have read and heard on here.

It is in the second tier down there as far as they are ranked on SDN.

I would try SABA first and AUA second.

Just be sure you know how hard it is coming from there. Talk to your friends.

You probably do not even need to take the MCAT again for them with a 24 if it is within the time frame of acceptance.

Good to hear that... I have one friend at SABA and he told me that they have small classes, which is really nice....

How expensive are both of the schools???

If medicine is what you truly think you want to do then I suggest you exhaust every effort to appeal that decision. You'll be in a much better situation if you can get the black mark of being dismissed taken care of, IMO.

I guess, maybe I could negotiate it become a withdrawal at the worst case scenario type of situation.

Hopefully I can do that.

 

[TheMagicCookie]

What would you do career wise if you weren't able to get an MD/DO acceptance? Do you have another passion, or is medicine your only desire?

 

[segapaz]

What would you do career wise if you weren't able to get an MD/DO acceptance? Do you have another passion, or is medicine your only desire?

I like writing stories and have worked(freelance writer/web site administer in the video game industry), but I do not make any money from it though. I've spent approximately 2,000 to 3,000 dollars on travel expenses minus all the time and energy on this since 2005.

I also like the field of biology/chemistry due to all the wonderful research so anything that combines computer with the biology and chemistry...

 

[segapaz]

I forgot to mention that the pharmacy that I am attending is accredited through its main campus(which is 3 years)... Although this pharmacy school does not have a graduating class that is out there because it is a 4 years school... We are only its 2nd pharmacy class and they are working on how things work. So they (the faculty) are experimenting on us on how the teaching should go...

 

[Mobius1985]

Perhaps your constructive criticism would be appreciated, if offered in the proper manner. It certainly might help those who come after you.

 

[segapaz]

Perhaps your constructive criticism would be appreciated, if offered in the proper manner. It certainly might help those who come after you.

Well the appeal failed, even after I shared what I happened to me at a SGA sponsored Charity Can drive/pot luck dinner, which was 7 days before our final exams. Our Final exams were worth 50%(out of 3 exams), 30%(out of 3 exams), and 25%(out of 4 exams) each respectively for the classes that I failed.

It was night time... I got out of my car. There were bunch guys just hanging out there, but one particular guy wearing a baseball hat as I walked pass them, I was racially insulted/harrassed and told that they killed my kind where they came from and they called me names. I did nothing to provoke the person at all and I kept quickly and silently walking away from that incident. Later that evening, this guy came by the SGA pot luck dinner to apologize only after seeing that there was a School event occurring there. It felt as he was trying to save himself from the situation. Regardless, I left the dinner party early and tried to study, but no avail.... That's why I failed those classes. I could not properly concentrate after what had occurred for the first time ever. I could not tell my adviser as they told me we are only here for academic help and that's it prior to everything that transpired. :|

PS: How is Xavier Aruba, Medical University of the Americas and St. Matthew's University

 

[calimed214]

Well the appeal failed, even after I shared what I happened to me at a SGA sponsored Charity Can drive/pot luck dinner, which was 7 days before our final exams. Our Final exams were worth 50%(out of 3 exams), 30%(out of 3 exams), and 25%(out of 4 exams) each respectively for the classes that I failed.

It was night time... I got out of my car. There were bunch guys just hanging out there, but one particular guy wearing a baseball hat as I walked pass them, I was racially insulted/harrassed and told that they killed my kind where they came from and they called me names. I did nothing to provoke the person at all and I kept quickly and silently walking away from that incident. Later that evening, this guy came by the SGA pot luck dinner to apologize only after seeing that there was a School event occurring there. It felt as he was trying to save himself from the situation. Regardless, I left the dinner party early and tried to study, but no avail.... That's why I failed those classes. I could not properly concentrate after what had occurred for the first time ever. I could not tell my adviser as they told me we are only here for academic help and that's it prior to everything that transpired. :|

PS: How is Xavier Aruba, Medical University of the Americas and St. Matthew's University

I have to say that I agree with the administration's decision not to accept your appeal. The above situation, while unfortunate, is not an excuse to have done poorly on your final exams. From what I can tell, it was just a verbal altercation.. and from that one incident, you completely lost focus? I would seriously question if you would be able to deal with the stressful situations you would undoubtedly encounter as a physician.. and provide quality care to your patients in the midst of life-and-death distractions.

The incident you described above was not an excuse for failing nor is your lack of interest in the subject matter or your disapproval of how the curriculum is structured. In medical school, you are going to have to learn all kinds of things that you probably won't be interested in.. possibly in a format that you don't like. Just ask a student who wants to go into general surgery how he liked his psych or ob/gyn rotations.

I liked research during my undergraduate years and I though to pursue a Pharm D as it will be more research oriented for talking to my pharmacist.

Overall, it just sounds like you like to do research. Why not just get a Ph.D.?

Edit:

I just read this thread a little bit more closely and noticed this:

It was only after 1 semester though...

So you decided that pharmacy was definitely not for you and that you're much more suited to a medical profession after ONE semester?? The first year of pharmacy school is generally comprised of very basic science classes such as biochemistry and biology in order to get everyone on the same "page". You usually don't begin your therapeutics modules until later in the curriculum. Your therapeutics classes are really where you start learning more in-depth about disease states and how to apply pharmacological knowledge to better manage those diseases. The set-up of the curriculum does vary a bit from school to school, but I can't imagine that after a single semester you would be able to definitively state that pharmacy school was a mistake. I think it was more a matter of poor planning on your part and entering pharmacy school because you didn't know what else to do with yourself after undergrad.

Please put a bit more thought into where you're going to go from here on out. I would take a year or two off just to do some soul searching. Don't ignore everyone's advice and just jump straight into applying to medical school like it seems like you're already set on doing. You could potentially waste a lot of money and years from your life. If you can't hack it in pharm school, you're not going to be able to make it in medical school either. Just slow down and really think about what you want and how to realistically achieve your goals before making any life-altering decisions.

 

[segapaz]

calimed214, let tell you in on something. Let me know how would you feel after parking your car in the night while carrying a food and some food cans on you. Its dark and you can't see their faces properly due to them wearing baseball caps. While there is a group of guys definitely above 25 years old and are drinking. They start calling you racial names and telling you come back here so that they can beat you up. In an area that is a bit shady and you are not from there. You will be scared for your life and be bewildered as to what just happened right now. If I went and told the administration, they would have done nothing because you know why, because told me when I went to ask them a question that we are only here for academics. Nothing else, which basically falsifies their statement when I started school as to how they are suppose to give moral, academic, and any other type of guidance that is needed for you to succeed...

 

[calimed214]

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience. Of course a confrontation like that with a group of strangers would be quite an unpleasant and scary ordeal, and I would not want to be in that kind of situation myself. It appears from your previous post that one of the offenders made an attempt to apologize for his actions, at least. But racial intolerance can be an ugly thing, and I'm sorry that you had to go through something like that. I'm glad that you were not physically injured in any way.

However, if you were truly that rattled by the incident, you should have approached the administration right away -- reporting the situation and asking for a possible extension so that you could mentally regroup and better prepare for the exams that were worth a very large % of your overall grade. I would imagine that any reasonable person would understand and try to accommodate your situation, especially if you had a relatively clean academic record thus far. By only talking about it after you had already been dismissed from the program makes it seem more like an excuse rather than a legitimate claim.

I do stand by my point, though, that medicine can be very challenging. In practice, you may have to deal with very physically and emotionally stressful situations that require you to maintain a high level of mental focus and performance. Would you be able to deal with that?

 

[segapaz]

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience. Of course a confrontation like that with a group of strangers would be quite an unpleasant and scary ordeal, and I would not want to be in that kind of situation myself. It appears from your previous post that one of the offenders made an attempt to apologize for his actions, at least. But racial intolerance can be an ugly thing, and I'm sorry that you had to go through something like that. I'm glad that you were not physically injured in any way.

However, if you were truly that rattled by the incident, you should have approached the administration right away -- reporting the situation and asking for a possible extension so that you could mentally regroup and better prepare for the exams that were worth a very large % of your overall grade. I would imagine that any reasonable person would understand and try to accommodate your situation, especially if you had a relatively clean academic record thus far. By only talking about it after you had already been dismissed from the program makes it seem more like an excuse rather than a legitimate claim.

I do stand by my point, though, that medicine can be very challenging. In practice, you may have to deal with very physically and emotionally stressful situations that require you to maintain a high level of mental focus and performance. Would you be able to deal with that?

I tried to connect with the administration, but I just could no't deal with it. I tried to put it away. This bugged me.

I'll be honest, as a pharmacy technician you face many different type of people some are racist and some are insulting, but you are still safe as everything is secured.

But this was a bit wary and real scary. Plus its not my sole responsibility(although it was) report to the administration, there was a good amount school pupils at this event and none of them reported this as well...

As being able to take stress and manage it, then then answer is yes. I am able to do that. Since the Spring of 2006, I have been doing research approximately 8 to 10 hours a week(and 40+ hours a week during the summer), working 10 to 12 hours a week, and taking upper level biology and biochemistry worth 18 credits each semester till my graduation in spring of 2008...

 

[Handy388]

the deck is stacked against you, dude, maybe the caribean?

 

[md2bknox]

I am curious to know what pharmacy school you go to if you don't mind?