Should I attend my II?

[deleted1140367]

I would like to preface this by saying I am extremely appreciative for my II and being able to even consider this career path.

I have just received an II from LECOM Bradenton. I am a Florida resident and applied to both LECOM Bradenton and NSU really just because they were located in Florida. I did not do my research on these schools beforehand, and did not realize that LECOM Bradenton has you set up your own rotations, and that NSU is on Goro's list of schools he does not recommend due to their declining COMLEX scores. Furthermore, when I applied I had my heart set on primary care, however since then I have shadowed an orthopedic surgeon and have absolutely fallen in love with it. I've thus started to care more about the location of the school and the opportunities for networking that it would provide.

I tried to do my research on the match results from these schools, but most of the data I have found is from pre residency merger and pre Step 1 being pass fail. Since these two occurrences, I believe the school I attend will matter a lot more, no? Additionally, I understand that, if this is my only acceptance and I decide not to take it, I would be blacklisted from all med schools. My grades are good (3.7 GPA and 511 MCAT) but I mentioned some things in my primary application that could be misinterpreted and I also feel my secondaries for the schools I really want to go to (CCOM, PCOM, and MSUCOM) are rather weak. Therefore, I believe blundered my chances at these schools. I know I can be a much stronger applicant and have a better chance at getting into one of these schools next year with tweaking of my essays and more volunteering.

My questions: Will I have a better chance at matching a competitive residency if I attend a school such as PCOM vs going to LECOM Bradenton or NSU? Should I attend the interview and just take the acceptance if it is my only one? Or should I email the school and withdraw my application, and reapply next year knowing that I will have a stronger application?

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[Goro]

Matching is on you, not the school.

Turning down your only acceptance is the worst mistake a pre-med can make.

Nova is no longer on my bad boy list because they have cleaned up the problem on their comlex scores. I'm still cautious about them because they still seem to have an anti-student mentality

 

[deleted1140367]

Matching is on you, not the school.

Turning down your only acceptance is the worst mistake a pre-med can make.

Nova is no longer on my bad boy list because they have cleaned up the problem on their comlex scores. I'm still cautious about them because they still seem to have an anti-student mentality

From speaking with the doctors at the hospital I am shadowing at, they informed me that matching into specialties such as ortho, plastics, and derm are not dependent on what you know but rather who you know. They stressed to me that it is important to attend a school that has a strong reputation and is located in an area that would allow me to network. Especially with step 1 being pass/fail now, there are fewer metrics with which to compare applicants.

Granted, they are a few decades out of med school, so do you believe they are perhaps misinformed? Would be possible achieve the same results with the same amount of effort regardless of whether I go to NSU or PCOM?

 

[Goro]

From speaking with the doctors at the hospital I am shadowing at, they informed me that matching into specialties such as ortho, plastics, and derm are not dependent on what you know but rather who you know. They stressed to me that it is important to attend a school that has a strong reputation and is located in an area that would allow me to network. Especially with step 1 being pass/fail now, there are fewer metrics with which to compare applicants.

Granted, they are a few decades out of med school, so do you believe they are perhaps misinformed? Would be possible achieve the same results with the same amount of effort regardless of whether I go to NSU or PCOM?

Take a look at the latest matching data.

But you also have to be realistic. How many acceptances have you received? Are you the type of student who will be at the top of their class? The top of the pack as the wise @Angus Avagadro likes to say?

Networking is indeed everything, and one can do that no matter what medical school you go to, because networking is also on you. And one of the ways to do that is to set up your own rotations and do auditions

 

[Dr Meow]

As of the 2022 match, don't go to DO for the sole purpose of achieving one specialty.
You can work your ass off and still be heavily heavily biased to PD's. Previously DO friendly specialties like Rads and Anesthesia got wrecked.
If you already have connections like a lot of ortho networks, then you'll need this advantage.

If you're 100% set on ortho, don't have connections, are a huge introvert, and don't see any other way, go MD or do something else.

 

[deleted1140367]

As of the 2022 match, don't go to DO for the sole purpose of achieving one specialty.
You can work your ass off and still be heavily heavily biased to PD's. Previously DO friendly specialties like Rads and Anesthesia got wrecked.
If you already have connections like a lot of ortho networks, then you'll need this advantage.

If you're 100% set on ortho, don't have connections, are a huge introvert, and don't see any other way, go MD or do something else.

So you’re saying that it’s now much more difficult to do radiology or anesthesiology as a DO? I’m not 100% set on ortho, I could very well still do primary care. But I have become infatuated with surgery in general as of late, and I do not wish to limit my options.

Take a look at the latest matching data.

But you also have to be realistic. How many acceptances have you received? Are you the type of student who will be at the top of their class? The top of the pack as the wise @Angus Avagadro likes to say?

Networking is indeed everything, and one can do that no matter what medical school you go to, because networking is also on you. And one of the ways to do that is to set up your own rotations and do auditions

I looked at the 2021 match for LECOM but it doesn’t show the data for specifically LECOM Bradenton, just all schools combined. For NSU I selected their Tampa bay location which hasn’t graduated a class yet.

 

[Dr Meow]

Yeah, check out the 2022 match vs 2020. It's ruined.
Rads went from the 90's% to 60's% in acceptance. Gen surg dropped. Anesthesia dropped. It's all ruined.
It was slightly/barely reduced for MD's. It's ruined. All ruined. We're stuck with primary care and neurology (known to be one of the most brutal and difficult residencies for one of the LOWEST pay of any specialty).

DO's were making progress!!! Every year for the most part was better and better. And then they pull the rug from under us instantly.

Problem is, that unlike NP's (and their lobbying), docs/med students/residents have this slave mentality to accept whatever **** we're fed. We'll eat dog crap if we're told. And so the problems keep getting worse. We're a bunch of pu$$ies. Midlevels have been screwing everything up, and in class we're being taught "INTERPR0FESS1ON@L R3SPECT" and sucking up to their inferior education.

 

[deleted1140367]

Yeah, check out the 2022 match vs 2020. It's ruined.
Rads went from the 90's% to 60's% in acceptance. Gen surg dropped. Anesthesia dropped. It's all ruined.
It was slightly/barely reduced for MD's. It's ruined. All ruined. We're stuck with primary care and neurology (known to be one of the most brutal and difficult residencies for one of the LOWEST pay of any specialty).

DO's were making progress!!! Every year for the most part was better and better. And then they pull the rug from under us instantly.

Problem is, that unlike NP's (and their lobbying), docs/med students/residents have this slave mentality to accept whatever **** we're fed. We'll eat dog crap if we're told. And so the problems keep getting worse. We're a bunch of pu$$ies. Midlevels have been screwing everything up, and in class we're being taught "INTERPR0FESS1ON@L R3SPECT" and sucking up to their inferior education.

Wow that’s scary. It definitely makes me want to focus my efforts on getting into an MD program, however I know my stats are just average/ below average for most MD schools.

I wouldn’t mind going through the application cycle again. I think my fix if I don’t get any acceptances this cycle would just be writing better essays (i really rushed my application) and getting more non-clinical volunteering. I could also try to retake the MCAT, but I know there’s no guarantee of getting a better score. However, I don’t want to ruin my chances with DO programs since at the end of the day I still want to be a doctor.

Would withdrawing my app after getting an II from LECOM tarnish my chances of getting accepted to other DO schools? I know that getting an acceptance will show up on other schools database, but is the same true for just an interview invite?

 

[Dr Meow]

Yeah your scores are borderline.
Idk man. If you just want to be a doctor, I would still take any offer you get.
Who knows what MD competition is gonna be like in the future......

 

[Goro]

So you’re saying that it’s now much more difficult to do radiology or anesthesiology as a DO? I’m not 100% set on ortho, I could very well still do primary care. But I have become infatuated with surgery in general as of late, and I do not wish to limit my options.

I looked at the 2021 match for LECOM but it doesn’t show the data for specifically LECOM Bradenton, just all schools combined. For NSU I selected their Tampa bay location which hasn’t graduated a class yet.

For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the 2020 vs 2022 business is just one datapoint. Let's see how things get for the next few years. These things seem to wax and wane.

Gen Surg is definitely doable for a DO.

 

[chilly_md]

My grades are good (3.7 GPA and 511 MCAT) but I mentioned some things in my primary application that could be misinterpreted and I also feel my secondaries for the schools I really want to go to (CCOM, PCOM, and MSUCOM) are rather weak. Therefore, I believe blundered my chances at these schools. I know I can be a much stronger applicant and have a better chance at getting into one of these schools next year with tweaking of my essays and more volunteering.

Unless you said something with major red flags, you should not have significantly impacted your chances. Have some confidence in yourself, you are a strong candidate for CCOM and PCOM. MSUCOM prefers in-state residents, but you certainly have good stats as an OOS applicant.

If you’re comfortable with CCOM, you should be be fine with LECOM Bradenton. It’s a lot cheaper tuition, you won’t have to pack a coat for school, and the claims about the administration are not in the ballpark of the issues students reported about Nova.

 

[deleted1140367]

Unless you said something with major red flags, you should not have significantly impacted your chances. Have some confidence in yourself, you are a strong candidate for CCOM and PCOM. MSUCOM prefers in-state residents, but you certainly have good stats as an OOS applicant.

If you’re comfortable with CCOM, you should be be fine with LECOM Bradenton. It’s a lot cheaper tuition, you won’t have to pack a coat for school, and the claims about the administration are not in the ballpark of the issues students reported about Nova.

Yes that's exactly the issue. I'm not sure if its a MAJOR red flag, but I discussed a hobby of mine that can be perceived as a red flag. It has to do with my interest in finance and teaching people how they can reduce their tax burden in a completely legal way. At the time of writing the application I did not think anything of it, but after discussing with my peers and getting their viewpoints I realized the issue.

 

[chilly_md]

Yes that's exactly the issue. I'm not sure if its a MAJOR red flag, but I discussed a hobby of mine that can be perceived as a red flag. It has to do with my interest in finance and teaching people how they can reduce their tax burden in a completely legal way. At the time of writing the application I did not think anything of it, but after discussing with my peers and getting their viewpoints I realized the issue.

It does not seem like a red flag in any shape if it was a routine legal method.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The recent charting outcomes has come out. MD and DO match rates all declined, DOs more so. I would recommend reviewing the data. Ortho for DOs had a match rate of like 56%. MD match rate was 65%. Well, competitive residencies are competetive, even for MDs.Matching has become more competitive as more schools are graduating more students with far fewer residency spots being created. This has been predicted and we have been seeing this trend over the past few years. The Match Game has been evolving quickly. So if anyone wants to specialize in the ever increasingly competitive matching process, then it will require a competitive application for that specialty AND playing the match game well. Some may require a gap/research year to check all the boxes. There is a thread on Charting Outcomes 2022. Check it and the NRMP website for details.

 

[DO2015CA]

I prob would’ve improved my extracurriculars and applied MD with your stats but you can’t change the past. As it stands, even if you are in pcp, you can make a good living. There is no way to see the future. The merger was announced the middle of my ms1 year. Everyone was convinced that this was the end. It didn’t turn out to be that way. This year showed to be a decrease in match rate for both MD and DO with DO being more affected. Well a trend requires multiple data points so we shall see how the next couple of years go but as it stands, DO schools continue to place students in competitive specialties (thanks to the students themselves not the schools. But still has the desired outcome).

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

they informed me that matching into specialties such as ortho, plastics, and derm are not dependent on what you know but rather who you know.

If you want these specialties, I would advise going to the best MD school you can get into but ask yourself why those three anyway. They aren’t really alike.

 

[deleted1140367]

If you want these specialties, I would advise going to the best MD school you can get into but ask yourself why those three anyway. They aren’t really alike.

I was just giving those as examples of specialities that are difficult to get into, not that it’s what I wish to do. However what I’ve realized is that I very much enjoy doing procedures as well as getting to build relationships with my patients. I’m not concerned so much about the monetary compensation, just getting to practice a field of medicine which I find to be a perfect fit for me. It is for these reasons that i would never consider fields such as radiology or anesthesiology despite how much they make.

 

[Sidus1011]

I was just giving those as examples of specialities that are difficult to get into, not that it’s what I wish to do. However what I’ve realized is that I very much enjoy doing procedures as well as getting to build relationships with my patients. I’m not concerned so much about the monetary compensation, just getting to practice a field of medicine which I find to be a perfect fit for me. It is for these reasons that i would never consider fields such as radiology or anesthesiology despite how much they make.

You can formulate relationships and do procedures in a wide variety of specialties with a range of competition. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I will say though, I decided to attend an OOS school instead of NSU. The problems are still there unfortunately and multiple students relayed that to me.

 

[deleted1140367]

You can formulate relationships and do procedures in a wide variety of specialties with a range of competition. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I will say though, I decided to attend an OOS school instead of NSU. The problems are still there unfortunately and multiple students relayed that to me.

Would you say the problems apply to the MD school as well?

 

[Dr Meow]

Would you say the problems apply to the MD school as well?

The benefit of MD besides one's own ability is that they have Resources and connections a DO school doesn't have. DO schools don't offer research. If you apply to anything competitive with 0 research, you're already dead in the water as a DO (especally with this pass/fail thing). Whereas, MD schools that are connected to universities or hospitals has research EVERYWHERE. Also, you have a lot of networking opportunities in MD schools whereas in DO, all you got are your professors. That's it. Your low paid phD professors and a couple of near retirement Docs that are about done with work.

 

[Sidus1011]

Would you say the problems apply to the MD school as well?

I've heard mixed things. The administrations are different, but the amount of resources you're competing for is a lot greater. While MD students probably do get a bit more access to the resources, the DO school has 410 students, with 220 or so on the actual Davie campus. The MD class is small at around 50. The DO is much more established in the community in FL. Not to mention the Nova hospital is basically equivalent to any other DO run hospital, it's small and is run by the HCA, which is where MD students rotate (besides those that go to other rotation sites in FL). I haven't spoken with many of the MD students, but the ones I have seemed pretty dissatisfied.

 

[Doctoscope]

You shouldn't attend an II when even if that's your only A you still wouldn't attend the school. You got into another school you'd rather go to? Great, you can now forget about LECOM. But, what if LECOM becomes your only A? Would you rather reapply/not go? If yes, then ignore the II.

 

[deleted1140367]

You shouldn't attend an II when even if that's your only A you still wouldn't attend the school. You got into another school you'd rather go to? Great, you can now forget about LECOM. But, what if LECOM becomes your only A? Would you rather reapply/not go? If yes, then ignore the II.

Should I ignore the II or formally message the school that I would like to withdraw myself from consideration? Would doing either one blacklist me from LECOM?

 

[Doctoscope]

Should I ignore the II or formally message the school that I would like to withdraw myself from consideration? Would doing either one blacklist me from LECOM?

I would email them. I don't know if that would blacklist you, but I wouldn't be surprised if that put you at a disadvantage if you reapplied there in another cycle. They'd need a compelling reason to send you another II if you didn't attend your first one (in my opinion).

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You shouldn't attend an II when even if that's your only A you still wouldn't attend the school. You got into another school you'd rather go to? Great, you can now forget about LECOM. But, what if LECOM becomes your only A? Would you rather reapply/not go? If yes, then ignore the II.

Agreed. I never understood why someone would apply to a school they don't want to go to.

 

[MDMechEngr]

OP: You should try to apply MD first with your stats as you have a decent shot. Apply to schools that have a home ortho program, especially the ones that match a good number of residents from their medical school. In addition to research, net work, building good raport with the residents, attendings, and the PD, you will be well know to them when it is time to apply. They can also vouche or make calls for you to other PDs. Our home ortho program matches 4 to 5 residents from my school consistently for the last 3 years. I am not doing ortho, but one of my good friend is and it is amazing whatching him "grease the skids" for the match next year. It is getting harder than hell to match ortho. You want EVERY ADVANTAGE you can get. Just saying.

Edit: on average we match around 10 to ortho every year and 40 to 50% is to our home program.