Should I be written up for this?

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Sparda29

Sparda29

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So apparently, I'm going to be written up at CVS because I ordered items from Cardinal Pharmaceuticals that were available through the CVS warehouse.

This is the situation:

Patient came in with a script the day after order day and we are completely out of stock on the item. So I decide to just order a couple of units from Cardinal. Pharmacist finds out and gets pissed off at me saying that she's gonna write me up. So she'd rather make the patient wait another week to start on the drug just to save a few bucks for CVS.
 
This is very stupid! I would give a middle finger to that pharmacist right on spot!
 
Sparda29 said:
So apparently, I'm going to be written up at CVS because I ordered items from Cardinal Pharmaceuticals that were available through the CVS warehouse.

This is the situation:

Patient came in with a script the day after order day and we are completely out of stock on the item. So I decide to just order a couple of units from Cardinal. Pharmacist finds out and gets pissed off at me saying that she's gonna write me up. So she'd rather make the patient wait another week to start on the drug just to save a few bucks for CVS.
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At the stores that I've worked at for CVS, generally the pharmacist would want me to ask the patient if they would like to wait "x" amount of days for the order to come in, and if they seemed particularly disagreeable at that point, then we could order it through Cardinal to get drop-shipped faster. I wouldn't expect to get written up for bypassing this if it was just your first time, but I don't know what kind of pressure the pharmacist is under. Maybe it just depends on the pharmacist.

--Garfield3d
 
I think we need more of the story. Were these just new prescriptions of something the patient was already on? Did the patient have some at home and could wait a few days longer? Though even if the answer was yes to those questions, I think writing up would be lame if this was your first time getting in trouble for this. First step should be education.
 
Garfield3d said:
At the stores that I've worked at for CVS, generally the pharmacist would want me to ask the patient if they would like to wait "x" amount of days for the order to come in, and if they seemed particularly disagreeable at that point, then we could order it through Cardinal to get drop-shipped faster. I wouldn't expect to get written up for bypassing this if it was just your first time, but I don't know what kind of pressure the pharmacist is under. Maybe it just depends on the pharmacist.

--Garfield3d
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I don't inform anyone when I place orders. I just see that it is out of stock and I tell the patient that I can have it for them the next day and just place the order.

GravyRPH said:
I think we need more of the story. Were these just new prescriptions of something the patient was already on? Did the patient have some at home and could wait a few days longer? Though even if the answer was yes to those questions, I think writing up would be lame if this was your first time getting in trouble for this. First step should be education.
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I know already that it is more expensive to order from Cardinal. That's not a concern for me. My only concern is getting the meds for the patient to the pharmacy as fast as possible.
 
Sparda29 said:
My only concern is getting the meds for the patient to the pharmacy as fast as possible.
Click to expand...

As an intern that may be your only concern but the pharmacy manager has to consider the increased cost of ordering from cardinal.

Freaking out and writing you up seems overboard but your attitude toward the cost to the pharmacy is one of ignorance.
 
PumpkinSmasher said:
As an intern that may be your only concern but the pharmacy manager has to consider the increased cost of ordering from cardinal.

Freaking out and writing you up seems overboard but your attitude toward the cost to the pharmacy is one of ignorance.
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Well, it's not coming out of her paycheck right?
 
willrocks said:
Man **** big chain pharmacies they are the bane of our profession.
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The majority of pharmacy graduates are going to end up in retail, grocery or retail chain.

It was interesting to observe this year's graduating class. This time last year roughly 50-60% of the class was thinking about residencies and wanted to do clinical work but when it came down to it at the end about 20% of the class applied and I think 10 or so people ended up with residencies. The majority of the class now that it is graduation time is signing with retail companies or looking for a job with a retail outfit.

We whine and complain and call them the bane but they are the biggest employer. It is up to the professionals that make up the profession to initiate change. The chance of things improving in retail pharmacy looks grim unless something drastic is done among retail pharmacists as a collective.
 
Sparda29 said:
I don't inform anyone when I place orders. I just see that it is out of stock and I tell the patient that I can have it for them the next day and just place the order.

I know already that it is more expensive to order from Cardinal. That's not a concern for me. My only concern is getting the meds for the patient to the pharmacy as fast as possible.
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Depends on the specific circumstances, and how much more expensive. True, some bosses can be d*cks about every tiny little thing. But you can always ask the pt how soon she needs it; if it turns out she's got enough for a wk or so, and it's something that's 'way more expensive when ordered the panic way, then it's not bad customer service to have them wait a few days. Good customer service is good communication - not having every single product at your fingertips. Even if it doesn't come out of the supervisor's pay, it reflects badly on them if the people they supervise order things the more expensive way willy-nilly.

Still though, you sound self-motivated, able to work without excessive supervision. I think I'd prefer having you as an assistant to those passive-aggressive helpless types that can't do a single thing without lots of handholding. Supervisors need to consider how good their techs are overall and forgive occasional enthusiastic over-ordering - I've seen many control freaks drive away good staff.
 
There has to be more to this than meets the eye. If you get written up for this, I would appeal it at once to the HR supervisor. If ALL of the facts are as you report them, your actions are 100% in accord with CVS polices which is to satisfy the patient first and foremost.

There are underlying problems at your store if you are out of warehouse items the day after delivery. Are cycle counts being performed? What about OOS scans? What are the items? Was there an option to pick them up from a nearby CVS? Does your store constantly order warehouse items from the OV? Has the PIC been called on the carpet for this. Did the PIC address the issue with the staff?

There are pieces of the puzzle that are missing.
 
Perhaps you didn't assess the whole picture when you made the order. It doesn't justify how the pharmacist decided to handle the situation.
 
I think you aren't telling the whole story. This could easily have been "the last straw" that used up the pharmacist's behavior. I have one tech who is also "motivated" and does a lot of things without telling me. After having had to fix several of her mistakes, I have to watch her a lot more closely than I like, to prevent other things she does before she thinks them through - and every subsequent mistake from her irritates me more than it would otherwise.
 
IndustryPharmD said:
I think you aren't telling the whole story. This could easily have been "the last straw" that used up the pharmacist's behavior. I have one tech who is also "motivated" and does a lot of things without telling me. After having had to fix several of her mistakes, I have to watch her a lot more closely than I like, to prevent other things she does before she thinks them through - and every subsequent mistake from her irritates me more than it would otherwise.
Click to expand...

Whole story or not, true story or not...his stories are usually entertaining.
 
IndustryPharmD said:
I think you aren't telling the whole story. This could easily have been "the last straw" that used up the pharmacist's behavior. I have one tech who is also "motivated" and does a lot of things without telling me. After having had to fix several of her mistakes, I have to watch her a lot more closely than I like, to prevent other things she does before she thinks them through - and every subsequent mistake from her irritates me more than it would otherwise.
Click to expand...

Well, might not have been "the last straw" specifically with me, but it's been a pretty bad month for the store over all. Our SSS score went down to 80, we have the highest Readyfill Return to Stock in the district, Extracare scan rate has been falling for a while, one of the full time techs just left the store (and apparently she thinks that I should be a team player and pick up more hours than I already am. I wonder what is going to happen if I end up getting the Costco job.) and we didn't complete PCR last week on a day that I was working.

Apparently to my supervisor, a floater being in the store is NOT an excuse for tasks not being completed, or SSS scores going down (I believe that this is the exact reason why SSS scores are going down, too many floaters instead of just giving one person the staff position). She says that since I'm the intern, I should be making sure that all of these PCI tasks are getting done. 👎
 
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Sparda29 said:
Apparently to my supervisor, a floater being in the store is NOT an excuse for tasks not being completed, or SSS scores going down (I believe that this is the exact reason why SSS scores are going down, too many floaters instead of just giving one person the staff position). She says that since I'm the intern, I should be making sure that all of these PCI tasks are getting done. 👎
Click to expand...
Since when are you getting paid to be a pharmacy manager? 🙄 Ask her that...
 
This time last year roughly 50-60% of the class was thinking about residencies and wanted to do clinical work but when it came down to it at the end about 20% of the class applied and I think 10 or so people ended up with residencies.
Click to expand...

Damn, where did you go to school? Im assuming you are exaggerating a little, but even so... Not that many people in my class want to do clinical work, in fact a lot of people look down on it. The big thing here is doing work that doesnt actually have anything to do with what we are studying. And im not just being stupid, i have heard a lot of my peers say this. A lot of them are interested in the pharmaceutical companies, but that may just be based on where we are (Rutgers). Kinda strange being the odd one out wanting a residency.

But what you say is true, most people will end up in retail, even if they didnt plan on it.
 
Sparda29 said:
Well, might not have been "the last straw" specifically with me, but it's been a pretty bad month for the store over all. Our SSS score went down to 80, we have the highest Readyfill Return to Stock in the district, Extracare scan rate has been falling for a while, one of the full time techs just left the store (and apparently she thinks that I should be a team player and pick up more hours. I wonder what is going to happen if I end up getting the Costco job.) and we didn't complete PCR last week on a day that I was working.

Apparently to my supervisor, a floater being in the store is NOT an excuse for tasks not being completed, or SSS scores going down (I believe that this is the exact reason why SSS scores are going down, too many floaters instead of just giving one person the staff position). She says that since I'm the intern, I should be making sure that all of these PCI tasks are getting done. 👎
Click to expand...

This is stating the obvious...run from CVS as fast as you can. The PIC may be under alot of pressure but thats her fault for working for a ****ty company.
 
We were always told to do this: Tell the patient you are out of stock...offer to find it at another CVS for them if they need it that day, or order it for next day, even if its from cardinal...Satisfy the patient...No matter...Your PIC is wrong here...well, in my eyes your PIC is wrong...
 
Doctor M said:
We were always told to do this: Tell the patient you are out of stock...offer to find it at another CVS for them if they need it that day, or order it for next day, even if its from cardinal...Satisfy the patient...No matter...Your PIC is wrong here...well, in my eyes your PIC is wrong...
Click to expand...

Same practice at the Wags I interned with... Check local stores, if none can be interstore transfer/ sending the pt (CIIs), we order from cardinal for next day delivery after 1230.

Beyond that, the pharmacy is putting the bottom dollar over pt safety / satisfaction. Which is crazy - because I can't imagine CVS doing something like that!*#%!!
 
Doctor M said:
We were always told to do this: Tell the patient you are out of stock...offer to find it at another CVS for them if they need it that day, or order it for next day, even if its from cardinal...Satisfy the patient...No matter...Your PIC is wrong here...well, in my eyes your PIC is wrong...
Click to expand...

Nothing after the comma is required. If you need something it should be this:

Your PIC is wrong here...well, according to company policy your PIC is wrong...

At CVS you are discouraged from regularly ordering warehouse items from the OV. If you order over a certain percentage of WH items from the OV, it does reduce profit. It shows lack of basic inventory management on the part of the PIC. That said, the policy of the company is to satisfy the patient. Why would you risk losing a patient that could spend $15,000.00 per year in order to save $10.00 on one item?????? Bad management.....
 
So today I get a call from my supervisor. I'm working tomorrow 2PM-5PM. There is going to be a floater at the store, since there is no one available at my store to work, and they've called 13 other stores looking for people to work the night shift, now they are asking me work until 9PM. (Forcing me to cancel my plans to go see Iron Man 2 and Nightmare on Elm Street). 🙄

She says that since we're very short on help right now, me and the other intern have to step up to the plate and give more dedicated hours even though it is the end of the semester, projects being due, finals coming up soon, etc.

I predicted that exactly this **** would happen if they had 2 full time techs, 1 part time tech, and 2 part time interns.

Worst case scenario, why can't she just leave the floater alone from 5PM-10PM? I wonder what's going to happen when I tell her that I'm probably leaving for Costco pharmacy. Would I have any power in negotiating a higher intern salary + a guaranteed store, $150K/year, $30K sign on bonus when I graduate?
 
Im surprised you even learned how to order meds from cardinal. When I worked as an intern the staff only saw me fit to fill prescriptions and get them lunch. In any case, good luck to you and I would try not to escalate things too much with them over the issue.
 
Old Timer said:
And this surprises nobody......
Click to expand...

OT actually has a point here Sparda...

I hope at some point, you are planning on going legit. I mean really, do you want to be the guy who couldn't get licensed because he was caught sneaking into a movie (or pirating software). As a pharmacist, you have more to lose than the knuckleheads you ran around with before.

Gotta go legit my friend. Just my .02
 
aboveliquidice said:
As a pharmacist, you have more to lose than the knuckleheads you ran around with before.
Click to expand...
This is a big thing that I've come to notice, thankfully not the hard way, but still. I went through high school and undergrad with plenty of going-nowhere friends, and we just did dumb **** all the time. Don't get me wrong, they're good, honest people, but the fact of the matter is I can't really hang out with them like we used to because they're loose cannons and I have no idea what sort of trouble they're going to stir up.
 
aboveliquidice said:
Gotta go legit my friend. Just my .02
Click to expand...

No, you just have to grow up and be a man. Iron man will still be in theaters when finals are over. You will not die if you wait a week. As I have gotten older, I have come to value goodness as the value I admire most. I was raised to be honest. When I was in High School a group of us found a wallet with $350.00 (that's real money now, but in 1975 it was REAL money). We called the owner and returned the wallet. He gave us $10.00 bucks each. It wasn't my money and since I could identify the owner, I had to return it. I don't steal money, music or goods.
 
Old Timer said:
No, you just have to grow up and be a man. Iron man will still be in theaters when finals are over. You will not die if you wait a week. As I have gotten older, I have come to value goodness as the value I admire most. I was raised to be honest. When I was in High School a group of us found a wallet with $350.00 (that's real money now, but in 1975 it was REAL money). We called the owner and returned the wallet. He gave us $10.00 bucks each. It wasn't my money and since I could identify the owner, I had to return it. I don't steal money, music or goods.
Click to expand...

Completely understand that.

Back in HS I was on a date at tumbleweed and when we left headed over to the movie theater, which was about 20 minutes away. When we got there, I noticed that there were two extra twenties stuck inside a bunch of ones. The date and I hopped back in the car, drove back to the Tumbleweed, and I flagged down the waitress to return the $40 that was not mine. She was thankful, as it would have came out of her tips at the end of the night.

My father taught me a man is only as good as his word and values. That is something I will always remember, and is how I live my life.
 
Sparda29 said:
So apparently, I'm going to be written up at CVS because I ordered items from Cardinal Pharmaceuticals that were available through the CVS warehouse.

This is the situation:

Patient came in with a script the day after order day and we are completely out of stock on the item. So I decide to just order a couple of units from Cardinal. Pharmacist finds out and gets pissed off at me saying that she's gonna write me up. So she'd rather make the patient wait another week to start on the drug just to save a few bucks for CVS.
Click to expand...

There are definitely some missing info in your scenario but regardless I will not write up my techs without a proper verbal warning along with an education session on how I want things to be handled. Ordering from cardinal is a delicate balance to achieve. One of our nighttime techs ordered a blood pressure med from cardinal and I did not hear her ask the patient if she had enough til our next order. But when I asked her she claimed that she did, if she is smart she'll know that I got my "ears" on her and start following proper procedure on ordering warehouse items from cardinal.
 
wes011 said:
Completely understand that.

Back in HS I was on a date at tumbleweed and when we left headed over to the movie theater, which was about 20 minutes away. When we got there, I noticed that there were two extra twenties stuck inside a bunch of ones. The date and I hopped back in the car, drove back to the Tumbleweed, and I flagged down the waitress to return the $40 that was not mine. She was thankful, as it would have came out of her tips at the end of the night.

My father taught me a man is only as good as his word and values. That is something I will always remember, and is how I live my life.
Click to expand...

I am stealing wifi from my neighbor right now👍
 
GabonpharmD said:
There are definitely some missing info in your scenario but regardless I will not write up my techs without a proper verbal warning along with an education session on how I want things to be handled. Ordering from cardinal is a delicate balance to achieve. One of our nighttime techs ordered a blood pressure med from cardinal and I did not hear her ask the patient if she had enough til our next order. But when I asked her she claimed that she did, if she is smart she'll know that I got my "ears" on her and start following proper procedure on ordering warehouse items from cardinal.
Click to expand...

But why would you write up a tech for ordering warehouse items from Cardinal? Why make the patient wait another week or so for the order day to come around?
 
Essentially, if the patient is cool with waiting a couple days, fine; if not, order it
 
Sparda29 said:
So apparently, I'm going to be written up at CVS because I ordered items from Cardinal Pharmaceuticals that were available through the CVS warehouse.

This is the situation:

Patient came in with a script the day after order day and we are completely out of stock on the item. So I decide to just order a couple of units from Cardinal. Pharmacist finds out and gets pissed off at me saying that she's gonna write me up. So she'd rather make the patient wait another week to start on the drug just to save a few bucks for CVS.
Click to expand...

Either tell us the whole story or don't tell us at all. I seriously doubt that a competent pharmacist would actually do that, she's probably bluffing. If not then appeal appeal appeal. You should have the company on your side.

If not, find a new job and find one fast!
 
two words for the business world: customer service.
two words for the health care world: patient care.

I think you win on both fronts. If you get written up, just respond appropriately in writing and speak on point about the above.

But, on the other hand, OldTimer makes a good point about whose money is it? So, to play devil's advocate with a perhaps pointed counterargument, the question from a business perspective could be: did you have the right to obligate the company funds in that way? And if the answer is no, you may wish to find a different job at a company (or maybe even a different pharmacy within the company) with a better balance for the above, and more commensurate with your ethics.
 
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hmmmm...you know...i was always told to take care of the customer...cause it really only takes something as little as making them wait 1 week for a product to piss them off...they may say it's ok, but in the back of their mind they probably wished they had the product like yesterday! When I worked for CVS, we would look for the product in surrounding stores and usually another store had it...we'd go pick it up for them, fill it and call them...We never made someone wait 1 week...and if it was a warehouse item, a surrounding store usually had it...Although the company stresses warehouse ordering, they stress customer service even more (at least in my eye)...but again, as other have stated, is that the whole story???
 
Phoho said:
Either tell us the whole story or don't tell us at all. I seriously doubt that a competent pharmacist would actually do that, she's probably bluffing. If not then appeal appeal appeal. You should have the company on your side.

If not, find a new job and find one fast!
Click to expand...

What do you mean whole story? Anything she might be pissed off at me about asides from ordering from Cardinal?

Only recent thing was me not showing up for work last week on a day when a floater was there and when RxConnect was acting up. And this is the reason I didn't show up:

#1 - I had told the lead tech who makes the schedule that during that week, I'd work Monday and Wednesday afternoon, and the Friday day shift. Somehow, there was a miscommunication and she scheduled me on Thursday afternoon. So when I showed up to work on Wednesday, I was told I wasn't on the schedule and to come in on Thursday (which was my birthday and I had already made plans). After I told the lead tech that, she said that it was fine.

The PIC found out that there was no replacement for me and said that I was supposed to work on Thursday even though there was a scheduling mistake. 🙄
 
I didn't read any of this thread but because it's you Sparda I'm gonna go ahead and say probably.👍
 
Geesh if the pharmacist is so uptight about ordering medications maybe she should make it a rule that only pharmacists are allowed to order medications. Otherwise she should not be writing people up if she did not train them properly.
 
maria1oh said:
Geesh if the pharmacist is so uptight about ordering medications maybe she should make it a rule that only pharmacists are allowed to order medications. Otherwise she should not be writing people up if she did not train them properly.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, we have a full time technician who is designated as the "inventory specialist" (who's only been in the pharmacy for like 6-8 months). So she's basically in charge of keeping stuff in stock and whatnot. If something is not in stock, I'm not gonna wait to contact her just to make sure I can order it or w/e.

And the other thing, she's not the pharmacist who trained me. I still operate the same way I was trained by my first supervisor (when it comes to out of stock, I was trained to just order the item + 3-4 additional units from Cardinal), and I don't plan on changing the way I operate for every supervisor that comes along.
 
Sparda29 said:
That's the thing, we have a full time technician who is designated as the "inventory specialist" (who's only been in the pharmacy for like 6-8 months). So she's basically in charge of keeping stuff in stock and whatnot. If something is not in stock, I'm not gonna wait to contact her just to make sure I can order it or w/e.

And the other thing, she's not the pharmacist who trained me. I still operate the same way I was trained by my first supervisor (when it comes to out of stock, I was trained to just order the item + 3-4 additional units from Cardinal), and I don't plan on changing the way I operate for every supervisor that comes along.
Click to expand...

This is what I like about you Sparda, after a while the truth will always come out. You are a 3 alarm fire. I don't care what my boss says, I'm going to do what my last boss (fired for incompetence) said. I can't work tomorrow, I have to go & see Iron Man 87.

You had me on your side until you said:

Sparda29 said:
I was trained to just order the item + 3-4 additional units from Cardinal), and I don't plan on changing the way I operate for every supervisor that comes along.
Click to expand...

The extra 3-4 units is a joke and yes you change when your boss asks you to change, otherwise your ex-boss would still be your boss.....
 
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