Should I drop out of pharmacy school?

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Techy413

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Hello all,

I am going through my first semester of pharmacy school as we speak and I am already having doubts about this profession. Especially after buzzing through this forum. I am still in a position where I could ditch pharmacy school and pursue another profession (preferably PA, potentially MD). If anyone has any experience with leaving pharmacy school for another profession I could really use some advice. Even if I make connections and make my self stand out in my class and pursue a clinical pharmacy job, is it worth it?

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I personally know so many unemployed new grads who regret their decision to get into pharmacy because it looked so appealing when they saw the average salary for pharmacists. If you can get out with none/low debt, get out now before you find yourself in a giant hole of debt with no shovel.
 
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I personally know so many unemployed new grads who regret their decision to get into pharmacy because it looked so appealing when they saw the average salary for pharmacists. If you can get out with none/low debt, get out now before you find yourself in a giant hole of debt with no shovel.
Can you date them though?
 
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The best time to drop out was before starting pharmacy school.

The next best time to drop out is now.
 
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Only depends on you. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Every field will require you to work and stand out. Some will pay better than others but at the end of the day it will depend on your abilities rather than a piece of paper.
 
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Honestly, it is up to you. As of right now, pharmacy isn't in a great place. Wage cuts and store closing left and right because the way it is now, it is not profitable. We can't really tell how it will be 4 years from now but you can either choose to ride it out or bail. Things change with time. Before I started pharmacy, nursing wasn't highly desired and pharmacy wasn't saturated yet. Now pharmacy is saturated and nurses are highly desired. Even if I could go back in time now and change my choice, I wouldn't change it because as high in demand nurses are, it is a super stressful job. The doctors that I'm familiar with are telling me that their clinics and hospitals have a high demand for nursing but it is not because no one is applying but because nurses have a very high turnover rate right now with all the budget cuts hospitals are doing so more workload is put on to them.
 
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I have never had the problem of not being employed and have always worked in a hospital. However, had I known about other areas of healthcare prior to pharmacy school I would have become a CRNA.
 
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Since you already have doubts, maybe it's the right call. I would encourage you to have a plan for what you wanna do next before dropping out. But yes, if you already have a plan, just drop out.
 
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I have had pharmacy classmates who cut their losses by dropping out their second year and going to medical school instead. Clinical pharmacist jobs are hard to come by these days. Ultimately, it’s your choice so do your research.
 
If you have doubts and you have debt, drop out. It makes no sense to do something you will regret later in life.

If being a clinician is your calling, I would suggest MD or DO. There are fields of medicine that are saturated, but you have options.
PA and NP jobs are getting saturated in major cities and could end up like pharmacy unless you do a “residency”

If you like building start up programs or design car engines, become a engineer. There is a demand for those jobs at least from good schools.
 
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Here's what I would say, I am a new grad who just got a job for $54.80/hr floating 32 hrs base salary with Walgreens as a 2019 grad getting hired in January 2020. If another members' information is correct, Walgreens starting pay could be ~$47/hr for class of 2021. If it drops in the same increments for graduates of 2022 and 2023, pay could be down to ~$41/hr by the time you graduate.

If you have a great personality and positivity and get on very well with everyone, in addition to having a great knowledge base, passion, and motivation, and truly enjoy the retail pharmacy environment and find it rewarding, all while being acceptable with a starting pay of between 60-90k when you get out, then stay in school. If you don't think you are a great match for it and have what it takes to be a top candidate, then quit school and cut your losses now. If you want to be a clinical specialist and a very bright and work well with a team, and again get on with others very well and have the fire in you to do it, you can become a respected clinical specialist. I don't think pay for clinical specialists will drop as hard as pay in retail.

Pharmacy won't die but job saturation likely won't plateau for 6 or 7 years in my estimation. Just the past year or two is when enrollments started to decline. So it will take another 3-4 years before graduate numbers reach the the plateau and then start to decline. If the market doesnt have good job growth during this time, it will be saturated for years after the graduate numbers plateau. This is why I estimate saturation to not turn the other direction for at least 6 or 7 years. With this in mind, we will have to see how much enrollments drop to. If everyone starts thinking pharmacy is a bad investment and quits in mass numbers, it could turn around faster than we think.
 
I believe making yourself "stand out" may help you land jobs but it won't make you get hired at a higher salary or anything. You'll get paid what the market says you should and from it seems right now, that is declining.
 
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What originally drew you to pharmacy in the first place? You have to think through that. Would you plan to go the retail route or hospital route? If you don't know, that means you most likely have no work experience in a pharmacy. Who is to say that you would enjoy being a PA or an MD? You (and everyone else) need to get work experience in the particular field that you're going to drop 100-300k in tuition on. I was a pharmacy tech prior to going to pharmacy school, so I knew what I was getting into and knew to avoid retail and knew that I enjoyed hospital pharmacy. If you do decide to drop out, you need work experience in whatever field you're considering. Want to be an MD? Maybe try working as an EMT or MA first. Wanna be a nurse? Try being a CNA first. Get my point? How are you supposed to decide how to spend the next 30-40 years of your career based only on a few conversations with people and what you read on this forum or other places online?
This forum is correct on some of the stuff that everyone complains about. Retail at certain locations really is just miserable, however some people have the perfect personalities for it and are very happy with their jobs in retail. The saturation is very real, particularly in urban areas. I mean think about whatever state you're in, how many new grads are there every year? Say your state has 300 new grads every year, do you really think that every single year there are 300 new jobs created (through new jobs being created or older pharmacists retiring?). Also are you only willing to live in a specific geographical area? If so you need to know what the job market is like in that area, because it varies throughout the country.
Anyways, feel free to message me if you want more of my insights or have other questions for me. I did graduate in 2019, so I probably have a good view point for you.
 
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I am a new grad who just got a job for $54.80/hr floating 32 hrs base salary with Walgreens as a 2019 grad getting hired in January 2020.

Pharmacy won't die but job saturation likely won't plateau for 6 or 7 years in my estimation.

You graduated in 2019 but didn't get hired until now for $54.80/hr at 32 hours floating, yet you don't think it's saturated?
 
You graduated in 2019 but didn't get hired until now for $54.80/hr at 32 hours floating, yet you don't think it's saturated?

No, did you even read my post, lol? My point is that it is saturated.. that doesn't mean the top candidates/people who love pharmacy don't have a chance. The other point I was making is that it's going to be getting worse for at least 6-7 years minimum before it even thinks about turning back the other way, if at all.

"Saturation likely won't plateau for 6 - 7 years (at least)" <-- It's the same as saying it's getting worse and will continue to get worse.
 
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No, did you even read my post, lol? My point is that it is saturated.. that doesn't mean the top candidates/people who love pharmacy don't have a chance. The other point I was making is that it's going to be getting worse for at least 6-7 years minimum before it even thinks about turning back the other way, if at all.

"Saturation likely won't plateau for 6 - 7 years (at least)" <-- It's the same as saying it's getting worse and will continue to get worse.

Ah okay. I believe we've reached the point of no return. It will never turn back the other way. It will only get worse and continue to get worse.
 
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No, did you even read my post, lol? My point is that it is saturated.. that doesn't mean the top candidates/people who love pharmacy don't have a chance. The other point I was making is that it's going to be getting worse for at least 6-7 years minimum before it even thinks about turning back the other way, if at all.

"Saturation likely won't plateau for 6 - 7 years (at least)" <-- It's the same as saying it's getting worse and will continue to get worse.
I beg to differ. BLS stats say job growth will be 0% from 2019 to 2028 for pharmacy. By that time A.I will start replacing pharmacists
 
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Hello all,

I am going through my first semester of pharmacy school as we speak and I am already having doubts about this profession. Especially after buzzing through this forum. I am still in a position where I could ditch pharmacy school and pursue another profession (preferably PA, potentially MD). If anyone has any experience with leaving pharmacy school for another profession I could really use some advice. Even if I make connections and make my self stand out in my class and pursue a clinical pharmacy job, is it worth it?
The only thing I would add to what other posters have written is that you should be mindful not to jump from one ditch into another one; carefully do your diligence. Midlevel providers (PA, NP) are quickly saturating as well due to relatively low education requirements and little to no barriers to entry a la federally-funded residency for MD/DO.
 
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From a ROI standpoint, I'd go to medical school if you can grind for another 8 years.
 
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Ah okay. I believe we've reached the point of no return. It will never turn back the other way. It will only get worse and continue to get worse.

Why would it not ever correct itself? People stop going to school when the job isn't worth it anymore. Enrollments are just now on their way down. Enrollments are going to drop big time after a few years. Yes BLS says -100 jobs in 10 years. That doesn't change the number of pharmacists leaving the market, and does not take into consideration the effects of enrollments dropping. All that says is how many total jobs there will be in the market. Obviously that number sucks, but it doesn't prove that things will never turn back the other way in terms of 'saturation.' If all pharmacists say "Don't go to pharmacy school!" (p.s. we are getting there) - it is definitely possible that the number of pharmacists exiting the market exceeds the number entering the market.

You could be right depending on how much farther the industry contracts with regard to total jobs, but I don't see why enrollments won't drop off big time. People aren't going to be signing up for this **** when pay is cut in half and loans are 300k. My personal belief is that the market will be less saturated after ~20-25 years. This is all speculation/prediction anyway so either of our predictions are possible. Is there another profession that became saturated in which the saturation never let up?
 
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Why would it not ever correct itself? People stop going to school when the job isn't worth it anymore. Enrollments are just now on their way down. Enrollments are going to drop big time after a few years. Yes BLS says -100 jobs in 10 years. That doesn't change the number of pharmacists leaving the market, and does not take into consideration the effects of enrollments dropping. All that says is how many total jobs there will be in the market. Obviously that number sucks, but it doesn't prove that things will never turn back the other way in terms of 'saturation.' If all pharmacists say "Don't go to pharmacy school!" it is definitely possible that the number of pharmacists exiting the market exceeds the number entering the market.

It IS correcting itself right now as we speak. Wages have dropped by 20% in just a few years. Pharmacists have been overpaid for over a decade and now wages are finally coming back to reality. It boggles my mind that people don't realize a correction can go the other way. Remember how much Rph overlap and tech hours we had before 2008 happened? Yeah still waiting for those tech hours to correct itself. It's never going back. They have cut hours and closed stores every year since then. There is no more expansion, stores are closing not opening.

If all schools shut down today then there would still be an oversupply of pharmacists for at least 10-15 years. Old pharmacists are not retiring and new jobs are not being created. There are more layoffs every year.

Look what happened to law schools 15 years ago, has that profession "corrected itself"? Now unemployed law graduates try to sue their schools cause they can't find jobs. Pharmacy is the next law school.

Has the job market for secretaries and librarians corrected itself? Pharmacy is a dying profession. Look at Rite Aid, CVS and Walgreens stock prices in the past ten years and you tell me how it will go back. If you can't prosper during the most profitable bull run in history then how will you profit when we go into another recession?
 
I beg to differ. BLS stats say job growth will be 0% from 2019 to 2028 for pharmacy. By that time A.I will start replacing pharmacists

I knew the BLS stat well before I wrote my post, just fyi. I'm sure the BLS took into account AI replacing pharmacists in that time, no? That's a factor in every industry. It's easier to replace other things with AI than it is to replace pharmacists. Computer intelligence can only go so far in making complex clinical decisions, which take into account hundreds of factors.. If pharmacists can be replaced by AI, then doctors can be too
 
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I knew the BLS stat well before I wrote my post, just fyi. I'm sure the BLS took into account AI replacing pharmacists in that time, no? That's a factor in every industry. It's easier to replace other things with AI than it is to replace pharmacists. Computer intelligence can only go so far in making complex clinical decisions, which take into account hundreds of factors.. If pharmacists can be replaced by AI, then doctors can be too
Not true. Do you think any person wants a robot performing surgery on them or giving them anesthesia or performing a physical exam. According to ACC, AI will help Doctors not replace them. With respect to pharmacy, AI can definitely verify meds, provide DI report, and pick appropriate therapy based on a guideline.
 
Not true. Do you think any person wants a robot performing surgery on them or giving them anesthesia or performing a physical exam. According to ACC, AI will help Doctors not replace them. With respect to pharmacy, AI can definitely verify meds, provide DI report, and pick appropriate therapy based on a guideline.

Robots ALREADY do surgery. Look it up. If 5G gets here, that **** will be remotely performed from India. Mark my words.


Who plays phone tag with the prescriber to explain the correct dosing of Tamiflu for a positive test (hint: not once daily for 10 days)?

Who confirms a once daily amoxicillin Rx is for strep?

Who corrects the patient on misinformation about statins or influenza vaccines they've read online?

Who stops a clopidogrel Rx from being filled when it's been discontinued by the cardiologist due to GI bleeding with a patient that is renally dosed on Eliquis. . . but the incompetent PCP insists it be filled?

Who calls on a Cipro Rx given for a respiratory infection when discovered during counseling?

Who takes a call from a patient's wife who informs you her husband has swelling of the lips and face (while on lisinopril)? Then who follows up and finds that the stubborn husband thought he could just sleep it off and potentially saves the man's live by scaring him to go?

Who finds affordable alternatives for patients without having to do a ton of research? Who recommends a patient ask their physician for a latanoprost Rx when Bimatoprost for eyelash growth isn't covered? That's not in any guidelines.

Who facilitates a switch from fluoxetine to sertraline when a patient's anxiety is out of control and gets their clonazepam usage down from 3 tablets a day to 3 tablets a WEEK as a result?

Who informs a prescriber they will need to titrate up on insulin glargine if they switch from Lantus to Toujeo? Also not in guidelines or anything in the system.

Who uses clinical judgement on the DUR system where 99.7% of flags are not clinically relevant in any way? Do you realize how many dangerous QT prolonging combos pop up as minor or undetermined severity? Does AI call on every single ACEi/ARB interaction with an NSAID or every NSAID/SSRI interaction? Either AI will have to get incredibly advanced, or physicians will be ignoring calls that are actually relevant due to the flood of bull**** calls they will get.


These are all real occurrences that immediately come to mind from this year. I probably have ten interventions a day that AI is not capable of dealing with. Sure, the lady could go without the latanoprost and the Cipro might have been ok despite poor S. pneumo coverage, but these are not things AI will catch unless systems change drastically.

AI will be a tool that pharmacists can utilize, but it is nowhere near being capable of filling our shoes anytime soon. Even if AI DOES catch a lot of the problem prescriptions, pharmacists will still need to review all of this for a long time to come. AI is probably not going to be capable of explaining a nuanced issue to a medical assistant.

That being said, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into pharmacy right now unless it's really their passion. If you do go into pharmacy, make sure you get every designation possible and you are the best you can be. You have to separate yourself from the crowd. The good news is a lot of schools are shrinking enrollment due to a lack of quality students and board pass rates are very poor overall. It will swing back the other way eventually. It's not as dire as the law school glut, but it isn't good right now.
 
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Robots ALREADY do surgery. Look it up. If 5G gets here, that **** will be remotely performed from India. Mark my words.


Who plays phone tag with the prescriber to explain the correct dosing of Tamiflu for a positive test (hint: not once daily for 10 days)?

Who confirms a once daily amoxicillin Rx is for strep?

Who corrects the patient on misinformation about statins or influenza vaccines they've read online?

Who stops a clopidogrel Rx from being filled when it's been discontinued by the cardiologist due to GI bleeding with a patient that is renally dosed on Eliquis. . . but the incompetent PCP insists it be filled?

Who calls on a Cipro Rx given for a respiratory infection when discovered during counseling?

Who takes a call from a patient's wife who informs you her husband has swelling of the lips and face (while on lisinopril)? Then who follows up and finds that the stubborn husband thought he could just sleep it off and potentially saves the man's live by scaring him to go?

Who finds affordable alternatives for patients without having to do a ton of research? Who recommends a patient ask their physician for a latanoprost Rx when Bimatoprost for eyelash growth isn't covered? That's not in any guidelines.

Who facilitates a switch from fluoxetine to sertraline when a patient's anxiety is out of control and gets their clonazepam usage down from 3 tablets a day to 3 tablets a WEEK as a result?

Who informs a prescriber they will need to titrate up on insulin glargine if they switch from Lantus to Toujeo? Also not in guidelines or anything in the system.

Who uses clinical judgement on the DUR system where 99.7% of flags are not clinically relevant in any way? Do you realize how many dangerous QT prolonging combos pop up as minor or undetermined severity? Does AI call on every single ACEi/ARB interaction with an NSAID or every NSAID/SSRI interaction? Either AI will have to get incredibly advanced, or physicians will be ignoring calls that are actually relevant due to the flood of bull**** calls they will get.


These are all real occurrences that immediately come to mind from this year. I probably have ten interventions a day that AI is not capable of dealing with. Sure, the lady could go without the latanoprost and the Cipro might have been ok despite poor S. pneumo coverage, but these are not things AI will catch unless systems change drastically.

AI will be a tool that pharmacists can utilize, but it is nowhere near being capable of filling our shoes anytime soon. Even if AI DOES catch a lot of the problem prescriptions, pharmacists will still need to review all of this for a long time to come. AI is probably not going to be capable of explaining a nuanced issue to a medical assistant.

That being said, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into pharmacy right now unless it's really their passion. If you do go into pharmacy, make sure you get every designation possible and you are the best you can be. You have to separate yourself from the crowd. The good news is a lot of schools are shrinking enrollment due to a lack of quality students and board pass rates are very poor overall. It will swing back the other way eventually. It's not as dire as the law school glut, but it isn't good right now.
Yes, robots can do surgery, but who makes sure it is done correctly by the Robot, the surgeon. Surgery is not going to be outsourced to India. Again, AI is going to assist doctors not replace them.
As for any job a pharmacist does, AI can do better. Pharmacist is the most likely replaceable health profession by AI. AI can answer Drug information questions, catch pertinent medication errors, and catch drug interactions and report side effects. All of it will be reviewed by technicians not pharmacists in the future. I am sure you have heard of tech checking tech. Counseling will be done by NPs and nurses in the hospital.
 
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I personally know so many unemployed new grads who regret their decision to get into pharmacy because it looked so appealing when they saw the average salary for pharmacists. If you can get out with none/low debt, get out now before you find yourself in a giant hole of debt with no shovel.

Why do you need a shovel when you're in a hole?
 
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Robots ALREADY do surgery. Look it up. If 5G gets here, that **** will be remotely performed from India. Mark my words.


Who plays phone tag with the prescriber to explain the correct dosing of Tamiflu for a positive test (hint: not once daily for 10 days)?

Who confirms a once daily amoxicillin Rx is for strep?

Who corrects the patient on misinformation about statins or influenza vaccines they've read online?

Who stops a clopidogrel Rx from being filled when it's been discontinued by the cardiologist due to GI bleeding with a patient that is renally dosed on Eliquis. . . but the incompetent PCP insists it be filled?

Who calls on a Cipro Rx given for a respiratory infection when discovered during counseling?

Who takes a call from a patient's wife who informs you her husband has swelling of the lips and face (while on lisinopril)? Then who follows up and finds that the stubborn husband thought he could just sleep it off and potentially saves the man's live by scaring him to go?

Who finds affordable alternatives for patients without having to do a ton of research? Who recommends a patient ask their physician for a latanoprost Rx when Bimatoprost for eyelash growth isn't covered? That's not in any guidelines.

Who facilitates a switch from fluoxetine to sertraline when a patient's anxiety is out of control and gets their clonazepam usage down from 3 tablets a day to 3 tablets a WEEK as a result?

Who informs a prescriber they will need to titrate up on insulin glargine if they switch from Lantus to Toujeo? Also not in guidelines or anything in the system.

Who uses clinical judgement on the DUR system where 99.7% of flags are not clinically relevant in any way? Do you realize how many dangerous QT prolonging combos pop up as minor or undetermined severity? Does AI call on every single ACEi/ARB interaction with an NSAID or every NSAID/SSRI interaction? Either AI will have to get incredibly advanced, or physicians will be ignoring calls that are actually relevant due to the flood of bull**** calls they will get.


These are all real occurrences that immediately come to mind from this year. I probably have ten interventions a day that AI is not capable of dealing with. Sure, the lady could go without the latanoprost and the Cipro might have been ok despite poor S. pneumo coverage, but these are not things AI will catch unless systems change drastically.

AI will be a tool that pharmacists can utilize, but it is nowhere near being capable of filling our shoes anytime soon. Even if AI DOES catch a lot of the problem prescriptions, pharmacists will still need to review all of this for a long time to come. AI is probably not going to be capable of explaining a nuanced issue to a medical assistant.

That being said, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into pharmacy right now unless it's really their passion. If you do go into pharmacy, make sure you get every designation possible and you are the best you can be. You have to separate yourself from the crowd. The good news is a lot of schools are shrinking enrollment due to a lack of quality students and board pass rates are very poor overall. It will swing back the other way eventually. It's not as dire as the law school glut, but it isn't good right now.
Most of the software right now in the pharmacy is outdated. The system can change drastically because technology is only up front cost while hiring pharmacists perpetual cost. AI can definitely determine which is a relevant drug interaction and which is not. Google IBM Watson, if it is capable of performing a job as well as the brightest doctor, then it can do a pharmacist job with ease.

Also, you do realize that 90% of hospital pharmacist job is order and verification. Likewise with retail.

Doctor diagnosing is not that scalable yet interms of automation. Yes robots can do surgery, but surgeons are not unemployed and it is not going to replace them. Why? Doctors generate revenue and profit for a hospital. A pharmacist in a hospital is expensive overhead with no way of generating profit for a hospital that’s is why clinical pharmacist have to justify why they exist
 
If you can automate prescribing then you wouldn't have to worry about fixing the garbage in, i.e., no order verification, ergo no pharmacist required for that function since there would be theoretically no need to verify automated orders
 
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