Should I drop out

[confusedandhope]

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Hey everyone,

could really use some advice

I'm a 2nd year pharm student, just started my1st term of 2nd year. I'm going to a new pharmacy school and can't say im exactly happy with it or the proffessors. They are all young and relatively new, some of them just graduating pharm school themselves. Some of them were even laid off from the industry.

Anyways from everything ive read, and seen in practice, its hard for me to feel good about pharmacy anymore. I came all the way across the country to sacrifice for this and to hear of all these new people not getting jobs, coupled with the restructing the pharmacy workforce. I got into pharm bc i though it was safe and paid well but im at the point where i just dont think the juice is worth the squeeze. Why would someone pay 150 k for school and have a 50% of getting a job, is my logic off?

I was one of the lucky ones and got an internship @ cvs, but i just wonder how bad it will be when i graduate 2014, plus the schools including mine keep on expanding.

I got a good offer from the army, cover all my loans. I dont hate pharmacy but i dont love it. I liked it alot more when i thought i could make 120k a year, but i guess i was one of the nevie kids. are there any other careers that can offer stability besides the military?

keep in mind i gave up my family and a gf to come out here, plus the people in my class seriously make me wonder the direction this proffession is headed in.

Everyone i talk to thats not in pharmacy says im crazy

any serious advice would be very appreciated

thankyou

 

[deleted390966]

are there any other careers that can offer stability besides the military?

Medicine
Dentistry
Physician Assistant

 

[PharmDstudent]

If you work for CVS now, I'm sure you'll be able to work somewhere after you graduate. It may be hard for a little while if you don't have a job offer before graduation, but an opportunity will come up eventually.

What would you do instead? And how long would it take you to start XY or Z?
I've looked into other fields recently, and the opportunity cost seems pretty high.

 

[confusedandhope]

I thought about joining the millitary, they would pay back my loans then maybe apply and see if I could get into PA school after my 4 years. I just dont like hearing stories of only half of interns getting hired with no benefits. Plus i hate my location and im not sure if any pharmacist is passionate about retail. Do you guys forsee PA becoming saturated as well. It just doesn't feel good when I see half a dozen more schools opening up b4 graduation. Plus the caliber of applicants in these new schools, for the most part is subpar. Any more comments welcome

 

[jasonkido]

I thought about joining the millitary, they would pay back my loans then maybe apply and see if I could get into PA school after my 4 years. I just dont like hearing stories of only half of interns getting hired with no benefits. Plus i hate my location and im not sure if any pharmacist is passionate about retail. Do you guys forsee PA becoming saturated as well. It just doesn't feel good when I see half a dozen more schools opening up b4 graduation. Plus the caliber of applicants in these new schools, for the most part is subpar. Any more comments welcome

I was in your exact same position 1 year ago. I was scared of the fact that I would probably end up unhappy in retail. Even if I have a great life outside of work, eventually the endless grind and lack of job satisfaction would drive me insane. I got my license and worked part time at cvs. This was around the time cvs was pushing hard on flu shots. I knew the time to get out was now. I decided to apply to numerous places. I got 1 reply and exchanged contacts for about 1 month and eventually got a face to face interview. The job was 4 hours away so I had to drive just to interview. I got the job and fast forward to today and I am extremely happy with my decision. I now work in LTC and it gets repetitive but the workload is much easier and I love the people I work with. I have become so accustomed to the place that I feel I may never go back home. I enjoy everyday at work.

Take it for what its worth but I think you should finish out and try to find a job as far from retail as possible. It sounds like your problem may be that you can't imagine working retail and would rather work in another field. There are numerous paths. If you just hate pharmacy in general and feel that you won't be able to get a job outside of retail then I would not stay.

As for saturation, I have heard stories from a lot of my classmates in retail that they hate their jobs and some can't even get enough hours due to saturation of new grads and no openings. This is all relative to areas. There are always areas expanding and depending on how well the company is doing they will want stores in these areas. With good timing and research and the willingness to relocate you can probably find a job. Of course a lot of new grads start out floating for a year or so before getting their own store. Best of luck to you

 

[confusedandhope]

Wow thanks man, what is LTC like?

Ya i almost think taking a pay cut would be worth it to become a PA. Ya dude I hear ya, thats what everyone tells me, if im willing to move and relocate, but wont eventually all the areas get saturated. we had a guy from walgreens come in and tell us the only places left for jobs were in new mexico. Plus i just feel like the enviroment for Pharmacists in the next ten years will be tough, do you forsee this happening. will PAs get saturated as well?

thanks man

 

[ValeRx]

Hate to tell you but the military is no safe bet. They are reducing the Army by 50,000 in the next two to three years now that Iraq is winding down. The waitlist to go to boot camp is at least 6-8 months and sign-on bonuses, much like pharmacy, are gone.

 

[jasonkido]

Wow thanks man, what is LTC like?

Ya i almost think taking a pay cut would be worth it to become a PA. Ya dude I hear ya, thats what everyone tells me, if im willing to move and relocate, but wont eventually all the areas get saturated. we had a guy from walgreens come in and tell us the only places left for jobs were in new mexico. Plus i just feel like the enviroment for Pharmacists in the next ten years will be tough, do you forsee this happening. will PAs get saturated as well?

thanks man

LTC is a hybrid of hospital/mail order. Hospital in the sense that you dispense in a closed door setting and mostly deal with nurses and doctors and mail order in the sense that you input and verify medications all day and ship them out to nursing homes. There is another side to LTC which is consulting where you go to nursing home and conduct chart reviews and provide inservices or classes to nurses about medications. We have a consultant pharmacist who is almost always on the road doing these and he loves it.

As for the future of Pharmacy, I think its looking grim. Believe what you are hearing but its not grim to the point where only 50% of pharmacist find jobs. The classmates I have kept up with all found jobs but some are floating and not getting enough hours to be considered full-time. Of course down the road it may be true that only 50% or less will find stable jobs but its all speculation at this point.

 

[confusedandhope]

Thanks man, i appreciate your honesty on this, do you see this happening to all health professions or just Pharmacy? Will it ever get better? Will they ever shut down schools, or is that a solution? Will salaries really get lower?

thanks for your replies, i feel better making a descions

 

[jasonkido]

Thanks man, i appreciate your honesty on this, do you see this happening to all health professions or just Pharmacy? Will it ever get better? Will they ever shut down schools, or is that a solution? Will salaries really get lower?

thanks for your replies, i feel better making a descions

No problem. I am by no means an expert on the going ons of the other professions. In my opinion primary care physicians and nurses are the safest professions. Pharmacy has been targeted for years due to its specialized nature and the lack intervention. The profession itself doesn't get the respect it used too which I blame on corporations. Realistically it won't get better unless there is a huge overhaul in the profession and I don't think that will happen. Schools will open up as usual churning out students but hopefully demand will increase in the future. However, it may not increase quicker than supply. I think class of 2014-16 will have it the worst. Once the time comes people will post on here as usual but hopefully with more optimism.

 

[rph3664]

There's one aspect of LTC, and home infusion too, that you need to know about, and it's this: Unless you're in a very big facility, the hours are uncertain (everyone comes in at a certain time, and leaves when they're done, which could be 5pm or it could be midnight 😱 ) and you have to take call and be prepared to deliver things at any hour of the day or night.

 

[PharmD RPh]

What you have is a very realistic concern. While I love my job and what I get to do in this profession, if I were a student looking at entering the profession now, I would start checking out other options. There are several factors that can affect the supply and demand going into the future.

I think the role of the pharmacist is evolving. National healthcare, if passed, will change the game as well. I see the future of the pharmacist being more involved in direct patient care doing things such as MTM, flu shots, point of care testing etc. The whole business model of putting pills in a bottle and making money has been destroyed by the Wal-marts of the world that are willing to give drugs away and de-value the profession. Independents are closing up shop and selling out to chains. Schools are pumping out more students than what studies state we need. The whole baby boomer argument is no longer valid because we have now overshot the supply to cover that increase in demand. Older pharmacists that haven't kept up with the changes and professional development are being pushed out of positions. Corporations are going to be looking to get more creative in order to make their profits now that PBMs are slashing reimbursements as evidenced by the Walgreens and Express Scripts dispute. Payroll is the number 1 controllable expense for any company, so be ready for corporations to find ways to make their margins which may mean becoming more efficient via technology to decrease payroll costs. Hospitals are closing and laying off employees (one hospital in my area recently announced 200 jobs to be eliminated) too since patients are not electing to receive any non-essential healthcare because they either don't have a job or have a job and they are looking to save their money because of this recession the country is in. Mail order is ruling with an iron fist, telling patients where they must go to get their drugs. A lot of plans have a max 3 scripts limit per year for retail now. I think there will be a need for pharmacists in the future, just not a need for as many pharmacists as we're pumping out. With that said, if you don't think you can be competitive with your peers and stand out in a crowd, I'd seriously look at my other options at this point. If you decide to stay at your school to finish it out, you can always look to continue education after your pharmd is complete if the job scene isn't great. I know of pharmacists that have went on to medical school, law school, Ph.d in pharmaceutical sciences, MBA, MPH etc. However, if you wish to get obtain a pharmd and get a job after graduation, I'd hate to be graduating in the next few years.

 

[lorain]

No problem. I am by no means an expert on the going ons of the other professions. In my opinion primary care physicians and nurses are the safest professions. Pharmacy has been targeted for years due to its specialized nature and the lack intervention. The profession itself doesn't get the respect it used too which I blame on corporations. Realistically it won't get better unless there is a huge overhaul in the profession and I don't think that will happen. Schools will open up as usual churning out students but hopefully demand will increase in the future. However, it may not increase quicker than supply. I think class of 2014-16 will have it the worst. Once the time comes people will post on here as usual but hopefully with more optimism.

i agree 2013-14 onwards it will get really bad

it is hard to predict, but I cant see things improving unless something drastically occurs (improve rph scope of practice, etc)

 

[lorain]

What you have is a very realistic concern. While I love my job and what I get to do in this profession, if I were a student looking at entering the profession now, I would start checking out other options. There are several factors that can affect the supply and demand going into the future.

I think the role of the pharmacist is evolving. National healthcare, if passed, will change the game as well. I see the future of the pharmacist being more involved in direct patient care doing things such as MTM, flu shots, point of care testing etc. The whole business model of putting pills in a bottle and making money has been destroyed by the Wal-marts of the world that are willing to give drugs away and de-value the profession. Independents are closing up shop and selling out to chains. Schools are pumping out more students than what studies state we need. The whole baby boomer argument is no longer valid because we have now overshot the supply to cover that increase in demand. Older pharmacists that haven't kept up with the changes and professional development are being pushed out of positions. Corporations are going to be looking to get more creative in order to make their profits now that PBMs are slashing reimbursements as evidenced by the Walgreens and Express Scripts dispute. Payroll is the number 1 controllable expense for any company, so be ready for corporations to find ways to make their margins which may mean becoming more efficient via technology to decrease payroll costs. Hospitals are closing and laying off employees (one hospital in my area recently announced 200 jobs to be eliminated) too since patients are not electing to receive any non-essential healthcare because they either don't have a job or have a job and they are looking to save their money because of this recession the country is in. Mail order is ruling with an iron fist, telling patients where they must go to get their drugs. A lot of plans have a max 3 scripts limit per year for retail now. I think there will be a need for pharmacists in the future, just not a need for as many pharmacists as we're pumping out. With that said, if you don't think you can be competitive with your peers and stand out in a crowd, I'd seriously look at my other options at this point. If you decide to stay at your school to finish it out, you can always look to continue education after your pharmd is complete if the job scene isn't great. I know of pharmacists that have went on to medical school, law school, Ph.d in pharmaceutical sciences, MBA, MPH etc. However, if you wish to get obtain a pharmd and get a job after graduation, I'd hate to be graduating in the next few years.

if you are a student looking to get in, forget bout it and move on
if you are a pre pharmer, switch your major
if you are in the last 2 years of rph school, finish it out be clinically strong and you probably will be ok

 

[jasonkido]

if you are a student looking to get in, forget bout it and move on
if you are a pre pharmer, switch your major
if you are in the last 2 years of rph school, finish it out be clinically strong and you probably will be ok

I have waned people I know going through pre-pharm reqs the same thing and told them to look at other options before going in. They refuse to listen and have had their paths written in stone. My nephew will be in college next near and no matter how much we warn him I don't think he will sway his position. He will be the 5th pharmacist in the family. All of us have been able to find stable jobs but I don't think its a wise decision to go pharmacy anymore.

 

[confusedandhope]

Thanks guys,im so glad i posted this, im in my 1st term of my second year. I admit the pharmacology is interesting but when i actually see pharmacists in practice i realize how little of it is utilized. As of now i think im going to drop and go into the millitary to help find myself, i agree, it seems a lot of people look at me like im crazy for dropping out. But i just dont have the drive to do a residency, or quite frankly the passion, and everyone seems to think im going to have like 5 job offers thrown at me.

Its hard to walk away from an internship but I guess i have to look at the facts, how much longer until everywhere is saturated? also, how many pharm schools will be complelety opened before they shut some down.

Everyone tells me, its cyclical there will be a huge need for pharmacists in ten years. But with centralized fill and the cuts on man hours will this be possible? I mean will there ever be a need for lawyers again?

thanks guys please keep the comments coming, everyone in my class is acting like theres a gaint pot of gold at the end of the rainbow😕

 

[jasonkido]

Thanks guys,im so glad i posted this, im in my 1st term of my second year. I admit the pharmacology is interesting but when i actually see pharmacists in practice i realize how little of it is utilized. As of now i think im going to drop and go into the millitary to help find myself, i agree, it seems a lot of people look at me like im crazy for dropping out. But i just dont have the drive to do a residency, or quite frankly the passion, and everyone seems to think im going to have like 5 job offers thrown at me.

Its hard to walk away from an internship but I guess i have to look at the facts, how much longer until everywhere is saturated? also, how many pharm schools will be complelety opened before they shut some down.

Everyone tells me, its cyclical there will be a huge need for pharmacists in ten years. But with centralized fill and the cuts on man hours will this be possible? I mean will there ever be a need for lawyers again?

thanks guys please keep the comments coming, everyone in my class is acting like theres a gaint pot of gold at the end of the rainbow😕

Good luck to you. Make sure you research all your options whatever it may be. I actually know someone that dropped out of pharm school in his p2 year and was supposed to graduate with me. He enlisted in the army to get money for college. He changed his field to radiology. Don't feel bad if you find that your decision is dropping out. You are still young hopefully and will find your niche.

 

[confusedandhope]

Thanks, ya im 25, any other fields out there you'd reccomend, ive considered PA. everyone tells me how much job security is in pharmacy. I've also considered being a health inspector, maybe a NP. what did ur buddy do in radiology?

 

[lorain]

Thanks, ya im 25, any other fields out there you'd reccomend, ive considered PA. everyone tells me how much job security is in pharmacy. I've also considered being a health inspector, maybe a NP. what did ur buddy do in radiology?

tell people to stop drinking the kool aid of pharmacy, its more like kristaluse these days

i think you should shadow some professionals and see what they do and if you could like that

 

[jasonkido]

tell people to stop drinking the kool aid of pharmacy, its more like kristaluse these days

i think you should shadow some professionals and see what they do and if you could like that

I agree with this. A lot of pharm students make mistakes by deiciding to shadow and intern after after getting into pharmacy school. Make sure you know what you're getting into.

 

[conflictedpharm]

Hi all,

I'm going to piggy back on this thread for my own sob story.

I'm a pharmacy student halfway through my first semester. I'm in a three year accelerated program, and I'm doing great academically. I think pharmacolgy is very interesting, and I'm happy with my studies. I love learning about the pathology of diseases and their treatments.

Now, here comes my problems. I was admitted with very little pharmacy experience. I shadowed pharmacists in a hospital and at a clinic and didn't mind it. It wasn't the standard community/retail pharmacy. However, I was just shadowing and not really doing any work. Now that I've started my IPPE site, I've mostly just done tech work, but I really don't like it. I'm at a community pharmacy and my preceptors are great, but I just don't want to verify meds all day. Standing in one spot and waiting for a tech to call for a consult is not something I want to do for a career. I completely respect anyone who does want to do it and I believe it needs to be done, but it just isn't for me.

I'm also intensely paranoid about not finding a job once I graduate. I go to a very expensive school, and if i graduate with a job earning six figures I won't have any problem paying down the debt. However, if there isn't a job waiting for me, I don't what I'll do.

Because I love infectious disease I thought about doing a residency, but it seems now that residencies are increasing hard to come by, and if I don't get one I'll be left to scramble to find a job.

Pretty much, there just seems to be a lot of uncertainty around pharmacy and not knowing if I'll have a job in 3 years is really creating a problem for me.

I've applied for a couple research positions at a local research hospital, and if I get a job offer, I'm seriously thinking about dropping out. I think I'd like to do research for a little while and then go to grad school to get a ph d. I did research in undergrad and I enjoyed it. I like infectious disease and teaching is something i have a huge passion for so going for a ph d in immunology or something similar seems great.


I really sorry for this wall of text, but I just had to share this and get some other people's thoughts. Everyone I know thinks I'm crazy because they're all under the impression that I'm going to graduate with more job offers than I can count. It just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. My classmates even think that there are plenty of jobs out there...

 

[deleted129840]

ConflictedPharm: go MD/PhD.

confusedandhope: I was considering going that route and I talked to people who employ, let's say a LOT of pharmacists and who would know about job prospects. I also talked to many pharmacists. NO ONE recommended running up all the debt for the PharmD. They said if I wanted clinical, go PA; if I just wanted the money, find anything else that I was good at and that paid the bills.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Hi all,

I'm going to piggy back on this thread for my own sob story.

I'm a pharmacy student halfway through my first semester. I'm in a three year accelerated program, and I'm doing great academically. I think pharmacolgy is very interesting, and I'm happy with my studies. I love learning about the pathology of diseases and their treatments.

Now, here comes my problems. I was admitted with very little pharmacy experience. I shadowed pharmacists in a hospital and at a clinic and didn't mind it. It wasn't the standard community/retail pharmacy. However, I was just shadowing and not really doing any work. Now that I've started my IPPE site, I've mostly just done tech work, but I really don't like it. I'm at a community pharmacy and my preceptors are great, but I just don't want to verify meds all day. Standing in one spot and waiting for a tech to call for a consult is not something I want to do for a career. I completely respect anyone who does want to do it and I believe it needs to be done, but it just isn't for me.

I'm also intensely paranoid about not finding a job once I graduate. I go to a very expensive school, and if i graduate with a job earning six figures I won't have any problem paying down the debt. However, if there isn't a job waiting for me, I don't what I'll do.

Because I love infectious disease I thought about doing a residency, but it seems now that residencies are increasing hard to come by, and if I don't get one I'll be left to scramble to find a job.

Pretty much, there just seems to be a lot of uncertainty around pharmacy and not knowing if I'll have a job in 3 years is really creating a problem for me.

I've applied for a couple research positions at a local research hospital, and if I get a job offer, I'm seriously thinking about dropping out. I think I'd like to do research for a little while and then go to grad school to get a ph d. I did research in undergrad and I enjoyed it. I like infectious disease and teaching is something i have a huge passion for so going for a ph d in immunology or something similar seems great.


I really sorry for this wall of text, but I just had to share this and get some other people's thoughts. Everyone I know thinks I'm crazy because they're all under the impression that I'm going to graduate with more job offers than I can count. It just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. My classmates even think that there are plenty of jobs out there...

Be careful not a make a rash decision here just because you're getting cold feet. Just because pharmacy grads aren't being overwhelmed with job offers anymore that doesn't mean they aren't finding jobs. The overwhelming majority does, and will likely continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Keep in mind that a PhD certainly isn't a guaranteed job either.

If you think you'd like to pursue a residency, there's a lot you could be doing right now to improve your chances so that it's not such a crap shoot when you graduate. Keeping your grades up, as you've already been doing, is a good start. You've mentioned that you're interested in research, so why not beef up your CV by getting involved in research while you're in pharmacy school? It's also possible to get involved in research or teaching with a PharmD, so a PhD isn't necessarily a requirement, depending on what you want to get into. Pursuing a fellowship after graduation is an option if that's something you're interested in.

You should probably check out other areas of pharmacy too. Retail and staff inpatient work are only 2 possibilities (although they are the 2 largest). You could also consider a dual PharmD/PhD program if your school offers such a thing.

Good luck and

 

[lorain]

Be careful not a make a rash decision here just because you're getting cold feet. Just because pharmacy grads aren't being overwhelmed with job offers anymore that doesn't mean they aren't finding jobs. The overwhelming majority does, and will likely continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Keep in mind that a PhD certainly isn't a guaranteed job either.

If you think you'd like to pursue a residency, there's a lot you could be doing right now to improve your chances so that it's not such a crap shoot when you graduate. Keeping your grades up, as you've already been doing, is a good start. You've mentioned that you're interested in research, so why not beef up your CV by getting involved in research while you're in pharmacy school? It's also possible to get involved in research or teaching with a PharmD. Pursuing a fellowship after graduation is an option if that's something you're interested in.

You should probably check out other areas of pharmacy too. Retail and staff inpatient work are only 2 possibilities (although they are the 2 largest). You could also consider a dual PharmD/PhD program if your school offers such a thing.

Good luck and

i agree with you jobs are available (my inbox has plenty offers), but the question is what is "foreseeable future" ??? 2 yrs? 5 yrs?

I cant see it beyond 2 yrs unless something really changes with scope of practice

 

[confusedandhope]

Hey man, Good to hear im not alone, from what ive read the reality is pharmacy is no longer a guarantee job, no that you won't get one but its not guaranteed.

I got into pharm thinking it was guaranteed six figs, and from what ive heard its not, new grads at CVS are lucky to get 30 hrs a week. I came from the NW and it hasn't hit there yet, but it definitely has in the southeast and northeast.

I agree I think its fair if you pay 120k for an education to have some kind of secure job left for you when you graduate. But look at what has happened to law schools and you'd have to be blind to not see similar trends in Pharmacy. I'm going to a new school and I can tell you that the caliber of these people makes me wonder where the profession is headed. I just can't feel good when I hear how pharmacists are laid off and how many more schools open every year and how it seemingly can't be stopped. I never thought id have to compete for a retail job, and I even have a internship.

I got accepted out of college to a major carribean medical school but turned it down to go to pharmacy bc it was safer, bottom line go where your passion is. I just can't see myself being in retail forever, it scares me. Pretty much anything else will require a residency too, and I can't see how salaries will raise.

Trust me I know there are plenty of worse jobs out there than being a Pharmacist. I however can't get into massive debt with a good chance I'll get a job. It scares me to see grads that have taken a yr or so to find a job. Every year it will just get harder. Also I think its wise to listen to people that have been in the field a long time, like some of the people on these posts. They know more than your average pharm student who just got into it because they were promised a good salary and job security. Thats why I'm currently looking at the millitary

 

[R2pharmD2]

i agree with you jobs are available (my inbox has plenty offers), but the question is what is "foreseeable future" ??? 2 yrs? 5 yrs?

I cant see it beyond 2 yrs unless something really changes with scope of practice

I don't want to get into a job market debate. It's really all guesswork, but it doesn't strike me as a coincidence that we had a massive recession and the pharmacy job market tightened up (along with many/most other job markets). Your guess about how things will be in 5 years is as good as mine, but I guess my point is that I wouldn't pick a career based on a guess.

 

[conflictedpharm]

Be careful not a make a rash decision here just because you're getting cold feet. Just because pharmacy grads aren't being overwhelmed with job offers anymore that doesn't mean they aren't finding jobs. The overwhelming majority does, and will likely continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Keep in mind that a PhD certainly isn't a guaranteed job either.

If you think you'd like to pursue a residency, there's a lot you could be doing right now to improve your chances so that it's not such a crap shoot when you graduate. Keeping your grades up, as you've already been doing, is a good start. You've mentioned that you're interested in research, so why not beef up your CV by getting involved in research while you're in pharmacy school? It's also possible to get involved in research or teaching with a PharmD, so a PhD isn't necessarily a requirement, depending on what you want to get into. Pursuing a fellowship after graduation is an option if that's something you're interested in.

You should probably check out other areas of pharmacy too. Retail and staff inpatient work are only 2 possibilities (although they are the 2 largest). You could also consider a dual PharmD/PhD program if your school offers such a thing.

Good luck and

Thanks for the advice, and I completely agree that this is a rash decision. Especially since I've only been in school for a couple of months.

I'm involved in a couple clubs right now, and applied for an internship and I've considered approaching some faculty about research options all to beef up my CV for a residency. Because of my interests in infectious disease I thought about specializing in that or HIV treatment, so I could practice in these aspects or teach them. However, I don't really have a good source of information about those aspects of pharmacy.

 

[lorain]

Hey man, Good to hear im not alone, from what ive read the reality is pharmacy is no longer a guarantee job, no that you won't get one but its not guaranteed.

I got into pharm thinking it was guaranteed six figs, and from what ive heard its not, new grads at CVS are lucky to get 30 hrs a week. I came from the NW and it hasn't hit there yet, but it definitely has in the southeast and northeast.

I agree I think its fair if you pay 120k for an education to have some kind of secure job left for you when you graduate. But look at what has happened to law schools and you'd have to be blind to not see similar trends in Pharmacy. I'm going to a new school and I can tell you that the caliber of these people makes me wonder where the profession is headed. I just can't feel good when I hear how pharmacists are laid off and how many more schools open every year and how it seemingly can't be stopped. I never thought id have to compete for a retail job, and I even have a internship.

I got accepted out of college to a major carribean medical school but turned it down to go to pharmacy bc it was safer, bottom line go where your passion is. I just can't see myself being in retail forever, it scares me. Pretty much anything else will require a residency too, and I can't see how salaries will raise.

Trust me I know there are plenty of worse jobs out there than being a Pharmacist. I however can't get into massive debt with a good chance I'll get a job. It scares me to see grads that have taken a yr or so to find a job. Every year it will just get harder. Also I think its wise to listen to people that have been in the field a long time, like some of the people on these posts. They know more than your average pharm student who just got into it because they were promised a good salary and job security. Thats why I'm currently looking at the millitary

carribean medical residents are also in for a surprise in a few years....there are lots of those schools opening up, and in a few years, only prolly half of them will be able to find residency in USA unless the amount of residency spots increase

 

[R2pharmD2]

Thanks for the advice, and I completely agree that this is a rash decision. Especially since I've only been in school for a couple of months.

I'm involved in a couple clubs right now, and applied for an internship and I've considered approaching some faculty about research options all to beef up my CV for a residency. Because of my interests in infectious disease I thought about specializing in that or HIV treatment, so I could practice in these aspects or teach them. However, I don't really have a good source of information about those aspects of pharmacy.

Does your school have an infectious disease or HIV residency program? If so, I'd highly recommend talking to the preceptor for each program for more information (some schools have a page on their website talking about what their residents are up to as well). I met with my school's infectious disease residency program preceptor and he was very helpful. There's probably some good info around SDN as well.

 

[lorain]

Thanks for the advice, and I completely agree that this is a rash decision. Especially since I've only been in school for a couple of months.

I'm involved in a couple clubs right now, and applied for an internship and I've considered approaching some faculty about research options all to beef up my CV for a residency. Because of my interests in infectious disease I thought about specializing in that or HIV treatment, so I could practice in these aspects or teach them. However, I don't really have a good source of information about those aspects of pharmacy.

if you specialize in pharmacy, i think your job prospects will be better

but the question is, lets say you do 2 yr residency: is all that effort going to be worth it for this 5 yr (3 yr pharm school + 2 yr resi) commitment considering your end salary + debt compared to other fields you could go to?

 

[lorain]

I don't want to get into a job market debate. It's really all guesswork, but it doesn't strike me as a coincidence that we had a massive recession and the pharmacy job market tightened up (along with many/most other job markets). Your guess about how things will be in 5 years is as good as mine, but I guess my point is that I wouldn't pick a career based on a guess.

i agree, but i think 2 points can be taken for certain:

1) companies wont build as fast as b4, they'll take a more prudent approach and conserve cash
2) the amount of 24 hrs store will be limited and not expand back like what it used to be even a few years ago

 

[conflictedpharm]

Hey man, Good to hear im not alone, from what ive read the reality is pharmacy is no longer a guarantee job, no that you won't get one but its not guaranteed.

I got into pharm thinking it was guaranteed six figs, and from what ive heard its not, new grads at CVS are lucky to get 30 hrs a week. I came from the NW and it hasn't hit there yet, but it definitely has in the southeast and northeast.

I agree I think its fair if you pay 120k for an education to have some kind of secure job left for you when you graduate. But look at what has happened to law schools and you'd have to be blind to not see similar trends in Pharmacy. I'm going to a new school and I can tell you that the caliber of these people makes me wonder where the profession is headed. I just can't feel good when I hear how pharmacists are laid off and how many more schools open every year and how it seemingly can't be stopped. I never thought id have to compete for a retail job, and I even have a internship.

I got accepted out of college to a major carribean medical school but turned it down to go to pharmacy bc it was safer, bottom line go where your passion is. I just can't see myself being in retail forever, it scares me. Pretty much anything else will require a residency too, and I can't see how salaries will raise.

Trust me I know there are plenty of worse jobs out there than being a Pharmacist. I however can't get into massive debt with a good chance I'll get a job. It scares me to see grads that have taken a yr or so to find a job. Every year it will just get harder. Also I think its wise to listen to people that have been in the field a long time, like some of the people on these posts. They know more than your average pharm student who just got into it because they were promised a good salary and job security. Thats why I'm currently looking at the millitary

I'm from the NW too. My school is newer and I completely respect the faculty, and think they run a great program. However, some of the students they let in seem so irresponsible with their studies. I'm not sure how some of them got in...I used to roll my eyes when I heard about diploma mills but now I don't know. And I absolutely HATE saying that.

 

[conflictedpharm]

if you specialize in pharmacy, i think your job prospects will be better

but the question is, lets say you do 2 yr residency: is all that effort going to be worth it for this 5 yr (3 yr pharm school + 2 yr resi) commitment considering your end salary + debt compared to other fields you could go to?

And your question is exactly my problem. I'm not sure if the time it would take to get there would offset the debt I would accumulate.

 

[R xxx]

Reading these threads make me feel so depressed.

PhD might not guarantee you a job, but your education will also be free. On top of that, they have a stipend. It is however very hard work and it takes a certain kind of person to do it. When I was still in undergrad, one of the professors came to our class and told us that PhD is another great option just in case we couldn't get into pharmacy school. They needed 30% of domestic students in order to get grants. They needed you to have at least a 3.0, but if you had research experience, a little bit less than 3.0 would still be ok. How a 3.0 GPA student going to compete with other international PhD students who are top of their classes.

I seriously considered that option. It's easier for me to say that if I'm a pre-pharm now, I would take the PhD route, but really...pre-pharms don't really know much until they are out there working, looking for a job. I tell people not to do pharmacy and they still do it anyway.

I really don't know how bad the market is as I got my jobs fairly easy. I guess I will find out when I start looking for a job again. It's hard to predict what would happen to my pharmacy career as we can't really predict what will happen in the next 40 years. That is why I am working very hard now to pay off my student loans. After that, whatever happens happens....

I know an older pharmacist who went to pharmacy school, then he couldn't find work. Went back to school to be a lawyer, worked as lawyer for awhile and then suddenly pharmacy became a hot profession again, then he went back to work as a pharmacist.

We really don't know what will happen tomorrow, but I think that if you're in it already...you should just finish it because you are out of $30K already.

 

[Albo]

Is it me or is it strange that all these people who suddenly are contemplating on dropping out of pharmacy school are newbies with only a few posts.

 

[conflictedpharm]

Is it me or is it strange that all these people who suddenly are contemplating on dropping out of pharmacy school are newbies with only a few posts.

I've actually been around for awhile, but my other sn might have led people to know who I was if they saw some of my older posts. I didn't want faculty/other students from my school to know I wasn't happy considering they all seem so upbeat.


Perhaps that's a tab bit paranoid, though.

 

[confusedandhope]

I guess its impossible to tell if the market will ever correct?

For any Pharmacists out there, how do independents make it? If reimbursements are being cut so drastically? Do they just mark up there drugs?


Bottom line, I feel like I'd rather be in primary care, maybe even look into commodity investing. I wonder if I will even stand a chance for PA school. Hopefully military experience helps?

I guess my fault was that I got into this for security, not passion. Lesson learned!

Anyone else on here says pharmacy isn't worth it?

Well what other jobs can make a decent living without having to pay 150K for loans? I've heard smoke shops and liquor stores? lol repo agents?

 

[deleted390966]

I got accepted out of college to a major carribean medical school but turned it down to go to pharmacy bc it was safer

Pharm school is indeed safer than Caribbean med school. Look at the Pre-med forum...

 

[confusedandhope]

Just curious, how many of you guys actually enjoy Pharm School? I dunno maybe I'm just bitter. Do you ever think there will be as many law schools as Pharm schools? Also for all the Pharmacists on here, did you have a optimistic outlook when leaving Pharm school? I hear so many Pharmacists that leave there job because they hate it. Any rational behind this?

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

Just curious, how many of you guys actually enjoy Pharm School? I dunno maybe I'm just bitter. Do you ever think there will be as many law schools as Pharm schools? Also for all the Pharmacists on here, did you have a optimistic outlook when leaving Pharm school? I hear so many Pharmacists that leave there job because they hate it. Any rational behind this?

Don't take a job solely for the money. Sure, salary should be a consideration, but don't let it be #1 on the priority list. Personally, it was #4 on the list after supportive environment, work-life balance, day-to-day activities.

 

[Don Quichotte]

Law school is way worse than pharmacy. Costs more with way worse odds and many many of the things attorneys used to do are being taken over by computers.

 

[Ghibli]

I guess my fault was that I got into this for security, not passion. Lesson learned!

I think first you need to find what your passions are. Don't even look at salaries and tuition. Then make pros and cons for each of these careers and do a lot of research. Bottom line is if something is not your passion you will be miserable no matter what you do.

 

[LazyMooch]

Definetly take another look at what you prioritize in a career. For me, it was longer hours with more days off and minimal take home responsibilities. Pharmacy is great if your looking for a strong family life as opposed to medicine, which can make that difficult.

 

[confusedandhope]

What you have is a very realistic concern. While I love my job and what I get to do in this profession, if I were a student looking at entering the profession now, I would start checking out other options. There are several factors that can affect the supply and demand going into the future.

I think the role of the pharmacist is evolving. National healthcare, if passed, will change the game as well. I see the future of the pharmacist being more involved in direct patient care doing things such as MTM, flu shots, point of care testing etc. The whole business model of putting pills in a bottle and making money has been destroyed by the Wal-marts of the world that are willing to give drugs away and de-value the profession. Independents are closing up shop and selling out to chains. Schools are pumping out more students than what studies state we need. The whole baby boomer argument is no longer valid because we have now overshot the supply to cover that increase in demand. Older pharmacists that haven't kept up with the changes and professional development are being pushed out of positions. Corporations are going to be looking to get more creative in order to make their profits now that PBMs are slashing reimbursements as evidenced by the Walgreens and Express Scripts dispute. Payroll is the number 1 controllable expense for any company, so be ready for corporations to find ways to make their margins which may mean becoming more efficient via technology to decrease payroll costs. Hospitals are closing and laying off employees (one hospital in my area recently announced 200 jobs to be eliminated) too since patients are not electing to receive any non-essential healthcare because they either don't have a job or have a job and they are looking to save their money because of this recession the country is in. Mail order is ruling with an iron fist, telling patients where they must go to get their drugs. A lot of plans have a max 3 scripts limit per year for retail now. I think there will be a need for pharmacists in the future, just not a need for as many pharmacists as we're pumping out. With that said, if you don't think you can be competitive with your peers and stand out in a crowd, I'd seriously look at my other options at this point. If you decide to stay at your school to finish it out, you can always look to continue education after your pharmd is complete if the job scene isn't great. I know of pharmacists that have went on to medical school, law school, Ph.d in pharmaceutical sciences, MBA, MPH etc. However, if you wish to get obtain a pharmd and get a job after graduation, I'd hate to be graduating in the next few years.

Plus i hear if you work for a chain they will fire you on whim of stupid stuff, do u see chains hiring tons of new grads at part time so they don't have to pay benny's? How low will salaries drop? I wonder how many total schools of Pharm are out there including satalite campuses? 150?

 

[optom123]

Don't take a job solely for the money. Sure, salary should be a consideration, but don't let it be #1 on the priority list. Personally, it was #4 on the list after supportive environment, work-life balance, day-to-day activities.

What do you mean by "supportive environment"?

 

[confusedandhope]

the pharmacist i work with said there going to push salaries down to 50k, u buy that?

 

[R xxx]

the pharmacist i work with said there going to push salaries down to 50k, u buy that?

If that's the case, people will stop going to pharmacy school and there will be a shortage again.

 

[confusedandhope]

Has anyone known people that have left Pharmacy school and gone on to have successful careers?

 

[Don Quichotte]

Don't listen to the 'find your passion' line as it was presented. It is important to have passion in your life---this could be a hobby, your church, some other organization, mountain climbing...or maybe your work. But come on? Do you think everyone driving a UPS truck or checking out your groceries is passionate about their jobs? When did people get such a skewed idea of what it means to find joy and satisfaction. I mean, seriously, if you are passionate about your job you would do it for free. (don't get me wrong---hooray for the folks that have managed to to make passion profitable) I would never do my job for free, but I like to backpack for free. I like to even PAY to travel. But I would never do my job for free. I like my career, I want to stay up to date and do a good job. So I wonder if you need to reevaluate what is reasonable to achieve in your life. And also the things you love might actually lose some of the glow when you are tacking your bills to something you once loved as a 40 a week job. So here is my advice. Think about something you could do 40 hours a week for money, every week for the next 30 years. Ok, did you not just throw up in your mouth? Ok, write that one down on the list of possibilities. Balancing a career with money concerns, interests, life...it is hard. But a lot of people manage. What did people you go to high school end up doing?

 

[confusedandhope]

Working at mills, other blue collar jobs. I guess what i've realized is that im not happy in pharmacy school and not passionate about working in retail and have a hard time coping with the current market and future of pharmacy. More importantly i can't see myself doing this long term, i've seen burned out pharmacists and ive realized thats not who i want to be. I'd rather take a pay cut and get to interact with patients more closely. I'm thinking about going into the millitary and getting experince in healthcare and then applying to PA or NP school. its hard walking away when i have a good internship and am starting my second year, but given the future of pharmacy and oppurtunity cost and my lack of passion for it, i think its the right choice.