Should I enroll in a post-bacc program? Pretty please with cherry on top :D

[knightstale4]

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[Naijaba]

Hi knightsale4,

You should be aware that TFA has had to significantly reduce the number of individuals that they accept (I'm doing TFA right now). Los Angeles Unified School District is actually cutting several thousand teachers. With that said, TFA is a great program, but requires a tremendous amount of work. If you are accepted to TFA, be aware that you will have little to no time to study for the MCAT or take other classes during the next 2 years.

 

[Slade]

First, a 3.56 overall is a very decent GPA, and puts you right with the average applicant, especially with a double major and if it follows an upward trend, for an MD.
I am not sure how that GPA translates over in terms of competitiveness for MD/PhD applicants.
However, and this is just from the few lines you've written, it seems as though your goals are not very focused. You majored in three different fields, you applied for Teach for America and you are considering both an MD and a PhD. What do you want to do exactly?!? From reading SDN, it seems as though Adcoms appreciate an overall theme to an application. Here, you are coming from all over the place it seems.
Maybe you should take a year to evaluate exactly what it is you want to do and why, and make sure those reasons are solid.
Perhaps then, a post-bacc program might give you the opportunity to both improve your GPA and focus your goals (MD OR PhD). Maybe teach for America will come through, and those years will give you a chance to see if you prefer teaching...
In any case, a 3.56 is fine, as long as your MCAT matches (ie >= 30s).
Good luck

 

[tiedyeddog]

I would say a combined MD/PhD program is out of the question. Do the PhD before trying your hand at the MD part...

 

[knightstale4]

First, a 3.56 overall is a very decent GPA, and puts you right with the average applicant, especially with a double major and if it follows an upward trend, for an MD.
I am not sure how that GPA translates over in terms of competitiveness for MD/PhD applicants.
However, and this is just from the few lines you've written, it seems as though your goals are not very focused. You majored in three different fields, you applied for Teach for America and you are considering both an MD and a PhD. What do you want to do exactly?!? From reading SDN, it seems as though Adcoms appreciate an overall theme to an application. Here, you are coming from all over the place it seems.
Maybe you should take a year to evaluate exactly what it is you want to do and why, and make sure those reasons are solid.
Perhaps then, a post-bacc program might give you the opportunity to both improve your GPA and focus your goals (MD OR PhD). Maybe teach for America will come through, and those years will give you a chance to see if you prefer teaching...
In any case, a 3.56 is fine, as long as your MCAT matches (ie >= 30s).
Good luck

Whoever you are, thank you. You have given me the most sane advice from everything I have heard so far. I wanted to do a PhD in Health Economics because I thought it would be interesting, and since I come from a low-income background who has seen medicaid fall through in its service and quality of doctors, I thought it would interesting to re-structure the system from a micro and macro perspective. But I agree about coming from all over the place--I feel like I am average at a lot of things, and not good at any one thing, which is depressing.

I hope I can do really well on the MCAT, but that is also not a sure thing. As for TFA, I did that because I didn't want to waste my time off, and I have always loved the idea of teaching (this the PhD inclination).

Thanks again.🙂

 

[Slade]

Whoever you are, thank you. You have given me the most sane advice from everything I have heard so far. I wanted to do a PhD in Health Economics because I thought it would be interesting, and since I come from a low-income background who has seen medicaid fall through in its service and quality of doctors, I thought it would interesting to re-structure the system from a micro and macro perspective. But I agree about coming from all over the place--I feel like I am average at a lot of things, and not good at any one thing, which is depressing.

I hope I can do really well on the MCAT, but that is also not a sure thing. As for TFA, I did that because I didn't want to waste my time off, and I have always loved the idea of teaching (this the PhD inclination).

Thanks again.🙂

You're welcome 🙂
I don't think coming from all over the place is necessarily bad or that it in any way means you are only average in all the things you do. I was the same way! I graduated from undergrad with a 3.1 GPA in math and computer science, studied abroad in two completely different places (studying ecology and conservation in one place) and did some bio research during my senior year. However, I wouldn't have discovered exactly what I wanted to do without these experiences. The most important thing is that I focused my education: I received a tiny NIH grant for the summer after graduation to do biomedical research which I continued for another 6 months. I took undergrad prereqs at my state school (all that ochem and bio I was missing), raised my GPA to 3.4, and took the MCAT. I then applied to med school and am doing a Master in Physiology in the meantime. I applied broadly to lots of schools (all MD only) and got in to at least 2!
In any case, just to show that coming from all over the place is not necessarily a bad thing, just so long as you focus all of these experiences once you are sure of what you want to do.
It seems as though you have given a lot of thought to the PhD in Health Economics. Maybe then you should concentrate on going for that PhD instead of doing both the MD and PhD. Otherwise, you might end up studying things in med school that you have no desire to learn and that will not be useful to your aspirations for the future.
🙂 Good luck!

 

[knightstale4]

You're welcome 🙂
I don't think coming from all over the place is necessarily bad or that it in any way means you are only average in all the things you do. I was the same way! I graduated from undergrad with a 3.1 GPA in math and computer science, studied abroad in two completely different places (studying ecology and conservation in one place) and did some bio research during my senior year. However, I wouldn't have discovered exactly what I wanted to do without these experiences. The most important thing is that I focused my education: I received a tiny NIH grant for the summer after graduation to do biomedical research which I continued for another 6 months. I took undergrad prereqs at my state school (all that ochem and bio I was missing), raised my GPA to 3.4, and took the MCAT. I then applied to med school and am doing a Master in Physiology in the meantime. I applied broadly to lots of schools (all MD only) and got in to at least 2!
In any case, just to show that coming from all over the place is not necessarily a bad thing, just so long as you focus all of these experiences once you are sure of what you want to do.
It seems as though you have given a lot of thought to the PhD in Health Economics. Maybe then you should concentrate on going for that PhD instead of doing both the MD and PhD. Otherwise, you might end up studying things in med school that you have no desire to learn and that will not be useful to your aspirations for the future.
🙂 Good luck!

Cool--I am glad you figured out what you wanted to do. I am still a little confused. I am just down in general from having to do all this figuring out while writing my senior thesis, which my professor thinks has too much jargon and is not accessible to the common man (which is ironically enough meant to be a consumer's guide to the U.S. healthcare system).

I will definitely think about the PhD bit in this coming cycle. I think I have a much better shot at getting into a great PhD program anyway- my Econ. gpa is 3.90 and my math is 3.8.

While I love the idea of medicine, I definitely need some more thinking before committing to this path--I just heard from some sites that having a PhD negatively impacts chances for medical school, so I thought why not combine the two.

University of Urbana-Champagne even had a very compatible combined degree program for someone with similar stats (but if I could, I would rather get into University of Chicago, which has a similar program, but demands much higher stats 🙁).

Thanks again.

PS- Where did you decide to go?

 

[Slade]

Cool--I am glad you figured out what you wanted to do. I am still a little confused. I am just down in general from having to do all this figuring out while writing my senior thesis, which my professor thinks has too much jargon and is not accessible to the common man (which is ironically enough meant to be a consumer's guide to the U.S. healthcare system).

I will definitely think about the PhD bit in this coming cycle. I think I have a much better shot at getting into a great PhD program anyway- my Econ. gpa is 3.90 and my math is 3.8.

While I love the idea of medicine, I definitely need some more thinking before committing to this path--I just heard from some sites that having a PhD negatively impacts chances for medical school, so I thought why not combine the two.

University of Urbana-Champagne even had a very compatible combined degree program for someone with similar stats (but if I could, I would rather get into University of Chicago, which has a similar program, but demands much higher stats 🙁).

Thanks again.

PS- Where did you decide to go?

I don't know about every single school, but I know that at one of the schools I applied to, the University of Hawaii, the Dean discusses how many points you received and in what categories. One of the categories was graduate degrees. A master was worth 1 point and a PhD was worth 3 points! (compared to a total of 1 point for any and all ECs including work/volunteering/research). So, at least at UH, a PhD is a big positive. Did the sites mention why a PhD might be seen as negative?
I don't think there is a disadvantage to doing a PhD and then an MD (especially if you are considering a post bacc, since in this case, the total length of education will be the same: 2 years postbacc + 7 years MD/PhD = 5 year PhD + 4 years MD). Even moreso if you are especially competitive for a PhD only (with your high GPA in math and economics) so that you can get into a great program, which will in turn allow you to get into a great MD program. After finishing the PhD, you might even realize that you are doing exactly what you want to do with your life, and not have to go through the 4 years of MD.

Are there a lot of schools which offer combined programs with a PhD in Health Economics?

I got accepted to the University of Hawaii and Brown (which I 😍). I withdrew from all schools except Brown and 2 waitlists.

sorry about the long posts 😛

 

[knightstale4]

I don't know about every single school, but I know that at one of the schools I applied to, the University of Hawaii, the Dean discusses how many points you received and in what categories. One of the categories was graduate degrees. A master was worth 1 point and a PhD was worth 3 points! (compared to a total of 1 point for any and all ECs including work/volunteering/research). So, at least at UH, a PhD is a big positive. Did the sites mention why a PhD might be seen as negative?
I don't think there is a disadvantage to doing a PhD and then an MD (especially if you are considering a post bacc, since in this case, the total length of education will be the same: 2 years postbacc + 7 years MD/PhD = 5 year PhD + 4 years MD). Even moreso if you are especially competitive for a PhD only (with your high GPA in math and economics) so that you can get into a great program, which will in turn allow you to get into a great MD program. After finishing the PhD, you might even realize that you are doing exactly what you want to do with your life, and not have to go through the 4 years of MD.

Are there a lot of schools which offer combined programs with a PhD in Health Economics?

I got accepted to the University of Hawaii and Brown (which I 😍). I withdrew from all schools except Brown and 2 waitlists.

sorry about the long posts 😛

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that info. I think the sites mentioned a prior PhD showing no real inclination toward an MD, and instead, it may come off as someone who is just trying to add titles for the heck of it. I never thought about either pathways being equal in the number of years--in fact, I like the bit you mentioned about networking when I get into a good PhD program.

There are only 6-7 schools which offer a combined MD/PhD in Social Sciences, and majority of the them are top tier (like Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, University of Chicago; Urbana-Champage being the only exception to the top tier rule;, so this does make me wonder twice and thrice about applying to combined programs with an average GPA and an undetermined MCAT.

Brown is such a great school--I am sure you will love it there. I am glad you got into a dream school for many. Any idea of a specialty inclination yet?

Also, I love your long posts--they're helping me cope with my current state of being lost without any sense of direction or hope coming my way anytime soon.

 

[Slade]

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that info. I think the sites mentioned a prior PhD showing no real inclination toward an MD, and instead, it may come off as someone who is just trying to add titles for the heck of it. I never thought about either pathways being equal in the number of years--in fact, I like the bit you mentioned about networking when I get into a good PhD program.

There are only 6-7 schools which offer a combined MD/PhD in Social Sciences, and majority of the them are top tier (like Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, University of Chicago; Urbana-Champage being the only exception to the top tier rule;, so this does make me wonder twice and thrice about applying to combined programs with an average GPA and an undetermined MCAT.

Brown is such a great school--I am sure you will love it there. I am glad you got into a dream school for many. Any idea of a specialty inclination yet?

Also, I love your long posts--they're helping me cope with my current state of being lost without any sense of direction or hope coming my way anytime soon.

It seems like you researched this a lot 👍
You could always apply to both MD/PhD and PhD programs, and decide depending on the results. What parts of the MD degree appeals to you?

You're graduating in May, no? What are doing your senior thesis on? Did you have to do a project for all three of your majors/minor, or just on a subject of your choosing? When are you planning on taking your MCATs?

These are just premed dreams (and may change completely many times over the course of the first three years of med school) but I would love to do pediatrics, general surgery or pediatric surgery. I am very interested in nonspecialized surgery because, once I have paid off my debts, I would love to practice abroad with Doctors Without Borders, or other such organizations. In the short term, general surgery is what they have the most use for. However, I really want to have a family, and as a little older applicant (23), a surgery residency (even just general surgery = 5 years) might not be the best choice. Hopefully I will just fall in love with a specialty so much, that everything else will just fall into place (I'm a firm believer of "if you want it bad enough, it will happen") 😀

from a previously lost senior to another, you'll figure it out! and in retrospect, figuring out what you want to do is probably more fun than having it all mapped out since grade school 🙂

 

[witness23]

aww there's a lot of love in between these back and forth posts - something you don't see often on SDN (i have a feeling this thread will follow trend)

but to the OP, most of the dual degree programs focus on biomedical sciences. Very few offer an OFFICIAL humanities/health related track, as you indicated. You should make sure that you are funded for your years though, or I think you will accrue major interest!

Anyway, as long as you do well on your MCAT i think you are good to go 🙂. Reading into your interest, i think you would be better served by another degree (in health econ or whatever)

take the time to think about what you want to do in medicine. have u considered MPH or MBA (I think that takes work experience) instead of a PhD?

you sound very interesting though! good luck

 

[knightstale4]

It seems like you researched this a lot 👍
You could always apply to both MD/PhD and PhD programs, and decide depending on the results. What parts of the MD degree appeals to you?

You're graduating in May, no? What are doing your senior thesis on? Did you have to do a project for all three of your majors/minor, or just on a subject of your choosing? When are you planning on taking your MCATs?

These are just premed dreams (and may change completely many times over the course of the first three years of med school) but I would love to do pediatrics, general surgery or pediatric surgery. I am very interested in nonspecialized surgery because, once I have paid off my debts, I would love to practice abroad with Doctors Without Borders, or other such organizations. In the short term, general surgery is what they have the most use for. However, I really want to have a family, and as a little older applicant (23), a surgery residency (even just general surgery = 5 years) might not be the best choice. Hopefully I will just fall in love with a specialty so much, that everything else will just fall into place (I'm a firm believer of "if you want it bad enough, it will happen") 😀

from a previously lost senior to another, you'll figure it out! and in retrospect, figuring out what you want to do is probably more fun than having it all mapped out since grade school 🙂

What appeals most? That's a tough question, and sadly something I cannot think of a very good response to. I have volunteered in hospitals as a patient companion, and what made me want to be a doctor at first was so I could have that 1-on-1 connection with the patient instead of being a 2-min. presence in their life. Also, I want to provide healthcare to disadvantaged populations because I know how people suffer from the lack of it (my dad had cataracts and God forbid, he could've lost complete vision; however, he didn't get anything checked, despite noticing the symptoms, because he didn't want to pay out-of-pocket. If the county insurance hadn't come through, I am not even sure if he would've gotten anything done). I am also huge on preventive care, so I wanted to do cardiology, as heart disease is one of the biggest problems we have in our country, but which can be prevented with proper care. I am not even sure if this makes any sense, but those were my initial reasons for wanting to join.

You're right--I am graduating in May. I am excited, but sad that I haven't accomplished anything major in these four years. I only did a project on my econ. major because research in natural science has never interested me (I tried it out one summer, and pretty much hated it). I would tell you my thesis title, but then realized I haven't even come up with it yet (this is due in 7 days). General idea is looking at the U.S. Health Care System: Comprehensive coverage + Comparative and Ideological Analysis + Personal prescription. It is intended to be a simple consumer guide for the average American so he/she can understand what they are getting into (and what all the statistics flashed in the media mean), and which choice is best for them, especially with this new administration, which is seeking the voice of the public in shaping policy (sites like change.gov), especially regarding healthcare.

I was thinking of taking the MCAT sometime in July, but that's just hoping for the best--I will probably delay it more, especially if I end up applying for the PhD program during the coming app. cycle. I just want to do poorly, and I think my fear and lack of energy are getting the best of me (I used to work hard up to college, after which I completely burned out; ergo, the GPA and confusion).

Your aspirations are inspiring 🙂
Not a lot of people are interested in medicine to help the less fortunate, especially those living abroad. General surgery is going to be tough though, especially because it requires so many years of residency before you even come into the profession as a practicing physician. I think it's great you want to have a family. A lot of people forget that with all the craziness, sometimes you need someone to come home to, someone who loves you not because you can fix them, but because their presence mends the sadness that sometimes being in medicine brings. I am sure you will find your passion--you got this far, and you'll figure out what you love during clinical rotations (which I hear are a nightmare because you have to try your hand at so many different things).

Sometimes I wish everything was a little bit more black and white, and a little less choice. It is so much easier when everything is laid out for you--but I guess this way, I know whatever I end up doing, it is because I want to and not because I fell into it or because others convinced me to do it.

What attracted you to medicine? I love these stories because it is amazing how many people with completely different backgrounds and experiences come to love medicine, which is a huge commitment and sometimes overtakes any personal life one may have had.

 

[knightstale4]

aww there's a lot of love in between these back and forth posts - something you don't see often on SDN (i have a feeling this thread will follow trend)

but to the OP, most of the dual degree programs focus on biomedical sciences. Very few offer an OFFICIAL humanities/health related track, as you indicated. You should make sure that you are funded for your years though, or I think you will accrue major interest!

Anyway, as long as you do well on your MCAT i think you are good to go 🙂. Reading into your interest, i think you would be better served by another degree (in health econ or whatever)

take the time to think about what you want to do in medicine. have u considered MPH or MBA (I think that takes work experience) instead of a PhD?

you sound very interesting though! good luck

I did think about an MPH, but I realized I don't necessarily want to be part of the policy creation, but work on the underlying assumptions of those policies, which are heavily influenced by models created by economists. I want to be the one creating the models, analyzing the data and drawing the conclusions, instead of the one sitting behind a desk and reading up on these studies, and skewing the results to meet my own ideological agenda. As for an MBA, I hate the current administrative job I have, so I know I would hate any sort of management job.