Should I give up?

[eahan85]

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I graduated with a BS in Biology in 2008, with an overall gpa of 2.3, and I worked in a research lab for 1.5 yrs, and animal care, dealing with mice, dna, pcr, etc. but I was just unmotivated at the time and didn't find interest in what I was doing.... But now I'm very committed in pursuing a career in pharmacy school, and I'm willing to take the extra time to turn my gpa around, but i feel like I'm too late.

What should I do?
Should I be taking extra classes to boost my gpa, or will getting a post bac be a better solution, or should I just be finding a different path?😕

 

[rxlea]

You can't get in with that GPA. A post-bac would be beneficial but I think you can probably just take the pre-reqs as a non-degree seeking student. You also need to get some pharmacy experience- do some volunteering in a pharmacy or get your tech certification and find a tech job.

 

[Chinese Bandit]

To boost a overall gpa of 2.3 will be difficult. I think to be competitive you need at least a overall gpa of 3.0 but i could be wrong. Also a post bacc probably wont help out as much. First, I would figure out which schools you are interested in, determine which classes you need and which you need to retake. Then figure out if its worth pursuing.

 

[OldPharm]

Retake pre req courses as a non degree seeking post bacc grad student to prove to the admission that you are capable of handling the rigor of the pharmacy school curriculums. Getting a high score on PCAT would help as well. I'm not gonna lie, you do have a hard road ahead of you, but if you can provide evidences that you are a changed person, adcom will think highly of your committment and dedication.

Lastly, you are never too late to pursue your dream. I'm in 30's and gave up my good career to pursue my new goal in life. So, good luck.

 

[Passion4Sci]

That GPA will get your application auto-tossed, as the minimum application GPA for most every school is 2.5.

3.0 would be ideal, but a 2.8/2.9 would also be feasible, assuming you had an excellent PCAT score and got some pharmacy experience.

But yeah, you must raise your GPA or you're hopeless.

To do this, you could do a formal post-baccaleaureate program or you could take classes at a CC... but the thing you need to do is show that you're not "that student" that got a 2.3 any more... and that you've grown and matured as a person. In a sense, separating "then from now" needs to be your #1 mission.

 

[tuu]

Your best plan of action is probably to retake the science courses (preferably at the same university/college). That way, depending on the school you apply to, some will take a combined average of the grades, and some will take the better grade of the two.

 

[mrjtang]

giving up is an automatic failure. i know i cannot live my life normally without knowing that i have tried my best.

at this point, you should retake your pre-req classes at a university level (not at a JC), and fully dedicate yourself to academics. its a long road ahead, but the journey is the most rewarding process. if you can't get into pharm school yet, try getting a master's in biochemistry in the meantime (1 year program at UC Riverside).

thats what i did and i got accepted into a CA school. 😀

good luck.

 

[diethylamide]

Get a 90+ on the PCAT, retake Ochem I and II, Anat and Phys I and II, maybe Calculus at a CC and get A's in all of them to show you are not only serious now, but also able to perform when you are serious (You have the time here to also retake anything else you really screwed up in). Get a tech job or shadowing or some sort of pharm experience. Do some sort of community service, even animal shelter, anything at all.

You should easily be able to get this done in time to apply for Fall 2011 admission and get interviews everywhere you apply, at a cost of less than $3000-4000 depending where you live.


EDIT: I should add as the next poster suggested that you must know you have the ability to do this or something comparable. You can get in without doing the above but I think the above would make it more of a sure thing provided you apply to 5-7 schools

 

[jung1]

I wouldn't risk it unless you're certain you can do well. Having motivation is great but dedication and skill is also important. Failing again and being 20 grand more in the hole would suck even more.

 

[Hendlefe]

Aside from boosting your GPA, I would suggest focusing most of your applications to newer schools with a lower GPA requirement. Hilo Hawaii, CA northstate to name a few.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Aside from boosting your GPA, I would suggest focusing most of your applications to newer schools with a lower GPA requirement. Hilo Hawaii, CA northstate to name a few.

Doesn't get much lower than 2.5, even for HILO and CNCP, does it?

 

[confettiflyer]

academic forgiveness @ USN is going to be the way to go here, even straight 4.0 in a post-bacc program will probably barely nudge the GPA up (not past the minimum GPA).

If the #'s work for the OP and they can get a 2.7 realistically, that'll at least get them through the door...I have a feeling they'd get accepted once a human sees the more recent GPA.

 

[bottlecap1990]

Retake all the prerequisites and do the best you can. Nothing is impossible.

 

[Passion4Sci]

academic forgiveness @ USN is going to be the way to go here, even straight 4.0 in a post-bacc program will probably barely nudge the GPA up (not past the minimum GPA).

If the #'s work for the OP and they can get a 2.7 realistically, that'll at least get them through the door...I have a feeling they'd get accepted once a human sees the more recent GPA.

Doesn't AF require that the coursework was completed ~ 5 years prior, though?

 

[rxlea]

Doesn't AF require that the coursework was completed ~ 5 years prior, though?

Affirmative.

 

[rxlea]

If you already have a degree, I don't think it matters if you take them at CC or University. The former would certainly be cheaper. Just make sure you DO WELL!

 

[confettiflyer]

Doesn't AF require that the coursework was completed ~ 5 years prior, though?

yeah something like that, just reread the OP's timeline...all of their courses would "fall out" in 2013.

I'd hope the OP had good grades by the time they graduated in 2008 (ie figured out what it took to get A's after 3 years of college) so that they could at least let 2004-2006 coursework "fall off" but i might be too optimistic.

 

[Carboxide]

If you already have a degree, I don't think it matters if you take them at CC or University. The former would certainly be cheaper. Just make sure you DO WELL!

Disagree strongly. Normally? Yes. With a 2.3 at university, however, you NEED to take those courses at a 4 year university, and NO online classes. Else you'll look like you can't hack it at a 4 year and are dodging the prereqs at CC.

 

[eahan85]

So if I were to retake the prereqs as a non-degree student, would they still average in the gpas of my past and current records? Or would just check to see how much I've improved?

 

[diastole]

So if I were to retake the prereqs as a non-degree student, would they still average in the gpas of my past and current records? Or would just check to see how much I've improved?

They would average the GPAs. But I'm going to echo the above advice and suggest you look into USN. They will only count your grades within the last five years if you retake all the required pre-reqs. It is going to take you two years to redo those so you are looking at maybe one year of your old course grades up there. It doesn't matter if you retake them at a CC. As far as I can tell, they just don't care. But the catch here is that you have to really, really well. And maybe if you do retake those classes, you will get the GPA up enough to be considered by other schools. This might be a long shot but if you give up, you have no shot.

 

[Circle Slash]

That GPA will get your application auto-tossed, as the minimum application GPA for most every school is 2.5.

3.0 would be ideal, but a 2.8/2.9 would also be feasible, assuming you had an excellent PCAT score and got some pharmacy experience.

But yeah, you must raise your GPA or you're hopeless.

To do this, you could do a formal post-baccaleaureate program or you could take classes at a CC... but the thing you need to do is show that you're not "that student" that got a 2.3 any more... and that you've grown and matured as a person. In a sense, separating "then from now" needs to be your #1 mission.

Agreed! Also, don't go back to the same university where you got your BS. Go to a different school so when you submit your transcripts, they can clearly see the improvement. My undergrad GPA was a 2.5, not too much better than the OP. During my post-bach, I maintained a 3.7, and with academic forgiveness my GPA is about 3.5, since some of my undergrad courses were taken within the last 5 years.

It's also very important to work on your communication skills. It would be a shame to finally score an interview, just to bomb it because you can't exhibit a structured thought process. Your personal statement and interview are your chances to outshine anyone with a better GPA. With a LOT of hard work, it can be done!

EDIT: Oh yea...so the answer is NO! DO NOT give up!!!

 

[Truffles]

Agreed! Also, don't go back to the same university where you got your BS. Go to a different school so when you submit your transcripts, they can clearly see the improvement. My undergrad GPA was a 2.5, not too much better than the OP. During my post-bach, I maintained a 3.7, and with academic forgiveness my GPA is about 3.5, since some of my undergrad courses were taken within the last 5 years.

It's also very important to work on your communication skills. It would be a shame to finally score an interview, just to bomb it because you can't exhibit a structured thought process. Your personal statement and interview are your chances to outshine anyone with a better GPA. With a LOT of hard work, it can be done!

EDIT: Oh yea...so the answer is NO! DO NOT give up!!!

Circleslash, do you mind saying what Pharmacy school you got into? And could you expand a little more about your comment here: " It's also very important to work on your communication skills. It would be a shame to finally score an interview, just to bomb it because you can't exhibit a structured thought process.. "

I personally feel very confident that I can do well on the PCAT and continue to 4.0 my prereqs, however, I am extremely nervous about the interview process and am afraid I might bomb it. What kind of questions did the interviewers ask? How long was the interview? What can I do to improve my communication skills, prepare for the interview process, etc. Thanks

BTW OP, I'm in the same boat as you, continue working/studying hard and good luck to the both of us 🙂

 

[Circle Slash]

Circleslash, do you mind saying what Pharmacy school you got into? And could you expand a little more about your comment here: " It's also very important to work on your communication skills. It would be a shame to finally score an interview, just to bomb it because you can't exhibit a structured thought process.. "

I personally feel very confident that I can do well on the PCAT and continue to 4.0 my prereqs, however, I am extremely nervous about the interview process and am afraid I might bomb it. What kind of questions did the interviewers ask? How long was the interview? What can I do to improve my communication skills, prepare for the interview process, etc. Thanks

BTW OP, I'm in the same boat as you, continue working/studying hard and good luck to the both of us 🙂

I got accepted to USN, thanks to academic forgiveness. The interview stage is where the school can really get to know what kind of person you are, beyond all the numbers and stats. This is where they look at qualities such as leadership skills, teamwork, compassion towards others, work ethics, etc. It's important that you communication clearly and concisely, that you can contribute to the student body. Use examples from your experiences that directly relate to these qualities.

Some people don't realize that how you answer a question is just as important as the answer itself. Be confident and don't ramble, because you'll end up saying a whole lot of nothing. You should focus on key points, instead of memorizing your answers word for word. This will make your answers flow and sound more natural. Get straight to the point but don't be too brief, otherwise your answers may be too vague. Try to avoid generic answers. Think of examples that will set you apart from the rest. I used to interview new employees at my previous place of work. Sometimes people have really good answers, but don't realize that someone else has the same exact, or similar answers. This is why a good answer isn't always the best answer, because it doesn't leave a lasting impression.

As far as practicing your communication skills, you can start by answering questions and participating in class discussions. It's a small step, but doing so will make you feel more comfortable speaking in front of others...especially for those who have a fear of speaking in public. Definitely do mock interviews before the actual interview. DO NOT try to remember your answers word for word. That will only cause you to stumble if you happen to forget a word during the interview, not to mention that they might not even ask you the questions that you prepared for. So mock interviews are meant for practicing your methods of communication, not for preparing answers.

This is a bit extreme, but another thing you can do, is to apply for some jobs, just to get more practice with interviews. Let me just say that there are ethical issues with applying and interviewing for jobs that you don't intend to follow through with...but that's your call. 😳

I hope that was helpful, Truffles!

 

[Pharmacist Zoom]

I graduated with a BS in Biology in 2008, with an overall gpa of 2.3, and I worked in a research lab for 1.5 yrs, and animal care, dealing with mice, dna, pcr, etc. but I was just unmotivated at the time and didn't find interest in what I was doing.... But now I'm very committed in pursuing a career in pharmacy school, and I'm willing to take the extra time to turn my gpa around, but i feel like I'm too late.

What should I do?
Should I be taking extra classes to boost my gpa, or will getting a post bac be a better solution, or should I just be finding a different path?😕

Complete your prereqs with mostly A's and try to achieve an overall GPA of 3.0 and prereqs GPA of about 3.5 or more and try to score 90+ on PCAT(achievable) and get some experience in retail pharmacy or hospital pharmacy and another important thing is apply to as many schools as possible......more chances to get in. Be positive and Good Luck👍👍

 

[Passion4Sci]

An overall of 3.0 starting from 2.3 with ~120 credit hours is a tall task, given how relatively small the pre-requisite breadth is for pharmacy.

A 2nd bachelor's might even be a good idea...

 

[rxlea]

An overall of 3.0 starting from 2.3 with ~120 credit hours is a tall task, given how relatively small the pre-requisite breadth is for pharmacy.

A 2nd bachelor's might even be a good idea...

Truck driving? lol jk

 

[Passion4Sci]

Truck driving? lol jk

Gah, from a MOD!

Seriously, though, I didn't want to be all negative. Trying to turn over a new leaf and all that.

 

[Truffles]

I got accepted to USN, thanks to academic forgiveness. The interview stage is where the school can really get to know what kind of person you are, beyond all the numbers and stats. This is where they look at qualities such as leadership skills, teamwork, compassion towards others, work ethics, etc. It's important that you communication clearly and concisely, that you can contribute to the student body. Use examples from your experiences that directly relate to these qualities.

Some people don't realize that how you answer a question is just as important as the answer itself. Be confident and don't ramble, because you'll end up saying a whole lot of nothing. You should focus on key points, instead of memorizing your answers word for word. This will make your answers flow and sound more natural. Get straight to the point but don't be too brief, otherwise your answers may be too vague. Try to avoid generic answers. Think of examples that will set you apart from the rest. I used to interview new employees at my previous place of work. Sometimes people have really good answers, but don't realize that someone else has the same exact, or similar answers. This is why a good answer isn't always the best answer, because it doesn't leave a lasting impression.

As far as practicing your communication skills, you can start by answering questions and participating in class discussions. It's a small step, but doing so will make you feel more comfortable speaking in front of others...especially for those who have a fear of speaking in public. Definitely do mock interviews before the actual interview. DO NOT try to remember your answers word for word. That will only cause you to stumble if you happen to forget a word during the interview, not to mention that they might not even ask you the questions that you prepared for. So mock interviews are meant for practicing your methods of communication, not for preparing answers.

This is a bit extreme, but another thing you can do, is to apply for some jobs, just to get more practice with interviews. Let me just say that there are ethical issues with applying and interviewing for jobs that you don't intend to follow through with...but that's your call. 😳

I hope that was helpful, Truffles!

Definitely helpful 🙂 Thanks and I hope you continue to do well in pharmacy school.

 

[KobeIsTheBest]

You should not be hopeless, try to re-take a few Science pre-req if it was bad, just a few important ones like Organic and Biology. Work in a pharmacy, and do a decent job on PCAT. Apply to ALOT of schools and be willing to go out of state. Once you get an Interview, it is up to u to tell your story. "You haven't fail until you quick trying"!!!

2 example: My best friend 2.7 GPA, 74 PCAT, Pharmacy volunteer and did real good in the interview... Got Accepted Class of 2013

Me: 2.8 GPA, got a Master 3.8 GPA, 76 PCAT, work in pharmacy for 2 years. Class of 2014.

Keep Trying and make sure this time you are focus in schoool!!! Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thumper17]

I agree with Kobe is the best on all points except for that Kobe is the best.

 

[Truffles]

You should not be hopeless, try to re-take a few Science pre-req if it was bad, just a few important ones like Organic and Biology. Work in a pharmacy, and do a decent job on PCAT. Apply to ALOT of schools and be willing to go out of state. Once you get an Interview, it is up to u to tell your story. "You haven't fail until you quick trying"!!!

2 example: My best friend 2.7 GPA, 74 PCAT, Pharmacy volunteer and did real good in the interview... Got Accepted Class of 2013

Me: 2.8 GPA, got a Master 3.8 GPA, 76 PCAT, work in pharmacy for 2 years. Class of 2014.

Keep Trying and make sure this time you are focus in schoool!!! Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!

I love encouraging posts like these.

 

[Falokis]

I graduated with a BS in Biology in 2008, with an overall gpa of 2.3, and I worked in a research lab for 1.5 yrs, and animal care, dealing with mice, dna, pcr, etc. but I was just unmotivated at the time and didn't find interest in what I was doing.... But now I'm very committed in pursuing a career in pharmacy school, and I'm willing to take the extra time to turn my gpa around, but i feel like I'm too late.

What should I do?
Should I be taking extra classes to boost my gpa, or will getting a post bac be a better solution, or should I just be finding a different path?😕

I got into 2 schools and declined a 3rd interview with a 2.4GPA. Life, work experience, and the PCAT go much further than you think when applying.

This is from a thread I made after I got in......

Everyone always ask about who got in with a low gpa and what they did to get them in, so i thought I would post my story.

First off, I have the lowest accepted GPA that I've seen on the boards. PharmCAS said it was a 2.41. I have multiple F's and D's. I have no Pharmacy experience. How did I get in? Well, I struggle through my first degree and it wasn't because I couldn't do the work. I just wouldn't try. Basically I was an abused child and it caused problems well into my mid-20's. Around that time I had graduated with a 2.02GPA. I managed to work out my issues and move on. I applied to another school and worked for a Medical Technology degree. I put forth the effort and made a 3.6GPA for those 60hours I needed to graduate again. Those weren't easy classes either. Clinical BioChem 1-4, Clinical Micro 1-4, Immunohematology, etc. Graduated passed the certification test, which I found out made the PCAT seem easy. I worked as a full-time Medical Technologist and took a full load of classes I needed to finish my requirements for pharmacy school. Again, great grades. I took the PCAT and got a 91%. So what got me in? A good PCAT. An excellent grade trend, which I think is the most important factor in my case. I feel I wrote a great personal statement. I know I had great letters of req. I also admit luck played it's part. It had to. Don't give up if you have screwed up. It can be done if you are willing to work at it and show you want it.

Good luck to those that are struggling to get in. You can do it.

 

[Griffisu]

.

 

[Circle Slash]

Definitely helpful 🙂 Thanks and I hope you continue to do well in pharmacy school.

Thanks! I hope so too! LOL! 😀

 

[b1234]

As far as retaking courses - PharmCAS and I think many non-PharmCAS schools also - count all of your grades - even if you have academic forgiveness and repeated courses.

Some schools will consider lower GPA's if your recent GPA is higher. Minnesota for example has a minimum GPA of 3.0, or 3.2 over your last 60 credits.

 

[bryantvo]

-Are you able to replace those grades at your college (assuming you attend a University). If you can take the classes you did bad, replace bad grade w/ good grade, then your chances will be better.

-I currently attend a CC and my school is not able to replace grades if you make a D/C or above, but at a nearby University people who f*ck up are able to retake those classes and replace the bad grades (no fair).

 

[fuCl]

This post is directed towards:

KobeIsTheBest
Pharmacist Zoom
Falokis

and anyone else who posts nothing but butterflies, hugs and kisses.


Wow talk about an uphill battle! At my school we have a special calculator on the grade website that assists with soul searching as you watch your C's get posted.

How many credits at _____ gpa would I have to take to get a ______ average GPA?

oh boy.

Lets assume a BS degree is 120 credits. Most people graduate with more but I'm going to assume you slacked back then in 2008.

2.3GPA X 120credits = 276 "quality points"

now, assuming you take all of the pre-pharmacy prerequisites and get straight A's- lets assume that is 60 credits worth

60 X 4.0 = 240QP + 276QP= 516QP/ 180cr= 2.867GPA

C'mon guys- lets be realistic. I don't like to be a debby downer, but we're talking about some guy spinning his wheels taking courses to nowhere at a 4yr school to the tune of $15k-$30k or more per year.

with a 2.867 best case GPA it doesn't matter what your PCAT is, and it doesn't matter what the minimum GPA requirements are or aren't and I don't care what someone you know's dismal accepted GPA was and please do not think for a second "academic forgiveness" is a right.

We can talk all day about each of our "unique challenges" and reasons/excuses for poor performance- but there's a problem. While we were screwing up there were thousands of people doing it right the first time. And guess what- they're applying this and every application cycle. By the time you're able to tell your "i got in with this horrible GPA" story, it doesn't matter anymore- it's time for a new application cycle where the company gets more and more competitive.

eahan85- don't misjudge my post as hate directed at you- its not. This post is directed towards the cheery "you can do it!" posters I read on here; people who either don't have the expertise to talk or are just too nice to tell the truth. Education is an investment in your self- you would be doing yourself a disservice trying to surmount such significant odds with the price of such an education and the costs of failure. Period. And anyone who tells you different is doing you a disservice.

 

[Passion4Sci]

While I don't disagree with you, FuCl, I'd like to point out that a drastic upward trend such as 2.3 ---> straight As in challenging classes like Calculus and Physics is a huge positive and certainly wouldn't be glossed over.

There is always a premium on separating "then from now" and, at least at the schools to which I applied, this was their philosophy.

It's certainly not a sure bet, but then again, a 4.00 isn't always a sure bet either.

While the OP likely shouldn't blow 30 grand a year at a 4 year for the classes, a CC which has an articulation agreement with the CoPs OP is interested in could be economical and efficient.

 

[b1234]

I personally think most (other) students think GPA is way more important than it really is. Not that I'm saying GPA doesn't matter, but there are so many other things that are important too... Try asking some teachers sometime if the students that they consider the best students - those that both understand and retain the material the best - are usually the students that get the best grades.

That being said... I agree that with his current grades the OP's application wouldn't even be considered at most schools. If he does spend a couple years going back to school and taking pre-requisite courses, and he does well in them - he could have a decent chance at getting in at most schools. Especially because he will be a non-trad who took a few years off from school and then returned to school his academic record will be looked at differently than most students.

 

[pallywally]

Don't get discouraged. Take extra classes, boost your GPA, get your PCAT up up up, and don't look back. My friend just reconnected with his childhood friend on FB and learned that the guy did a piss poor job of undergrad, but then went back to school and got himself into dental school, and he's now an oral maxillofacial surgeon. His GPA was like yours, and he got into dental school at IU, which is extremely difficult to get into.

Whatever you do, don't give up and do your best not to let your discouraged feelings get to you.

 

[pallywally]

This post is directed towards:

KobeIsTheBest
Pharmacist Zoom
Falokis

and anyone else who posts nothing but butterflies, hugs and kisses.

The guy who was my tour guide at my state's pharmacy school was not only an out-of-state student, but he had a miserable GPA in undergrad. When he disclosed it, there were gasps. But he followed it up by saying that he scored in the 99th percentile on the PCAT. He hadn't done anything special and is an overrepresented minority from out-of-state. Honestly, I'd be the first to suggest alternative careers, but if the OP turns it around and really performs on the PCAT, it would be silly to say he doesn't stand a chance. He definitely does.

I'm not saying, and a lot of "hugs and kisses and butterflies" folks aren't saying, that he'll be a shoo-in, and it's not that his chance is the same as someone who got A's and B's, was a pharm tech for 3 years, and got a 99th percentile PCAT score. All we're saying is that some pharmacy schools out there can be forgiving and there are a fair number of people that have made it.

 

[b1234]

Speaking somewhat from experience, and some from just making logical conclusions...

I will say that I think at most, if not all schools - (grad, professional and undergrad included) the more time that has passed since you got bad grades, the less they are held against you - so long as you can show that you are a different person than you were when you got those grades. For a traditional student who graduates in 4 (or 5) years and is applying to a graduate or professional program immediately after one or two bad semesters and/or a low cumulative GPA can ruin or severely hinder your chances at admission. For a nontraditional student that can show (both with recent grades and in other ways like essays, interviews, etc.) that they have changed and can succeed academically a low cumulative GPA and/or a poor semester or two does not necessarily mean rejection.

Using myself as an example - I had some pretty awful grades at one point, but that was in the mid 90's. I still got at least an interview at every school I applied to. My overall cumulative GPA was at least above a 3.0 though and my PCAT was very high. I did not retake any of the courses I got bad grades in and did not get any sort of academic forgiveness (not that academic forgiveness matters for your PharmCAS GPA).

 

[fuCl]

Many of us get lucky. Many people get into school through atypical or nontraditional routes with histories riddled with inadequacies. I can appreciate that. Its about the person, not the numbers. A non traditional student who has had to work his butt off to get to a 3.0 due to poor past performances has many things going for him that make him a better candidate than a 4.0 pre-pharmer whose hardest course so far is orgo 1. I go to school with many non-traditional students whom on the first day of pharmacy school years ago were 10 times the person I was; maturity, passion, dedication- you name it.

But each time you say "You can do it!" what you're really saying is "I knew a guy who did 3 application cycles ago!" and if you did personally get in with poor numbers remember the context of your acceptance; the application year.

The assumptions that we have made over the past many posts relate to an individual who for an entire undergraduate career achieved a C+ average. Suddenly charged with commitment and motivation he intends to go to school this fall and take new classes and ace them. Keep in mind just how hard it is to get the highest of grades. I don't know many people who can just turn it on like that.

What happens if he achieves a B+ GPA for those courses? Admissions would certainly see an improvement on many fronts- but to say that 2 to 4 years from now when this individual applies it would be enough for admission is a stretch.

2.3GPA X 120credits = 276 "quality points"

now, assuming you take all of the pre-pharmacy prerequisites and get straight A's- lets assume that is 60 credits worth

60 X 3.333 = 200QP + 276QP= 476QP/ 180cr= 2.644GPA

That's a big 8 ball to be behind, guys.

 

[Passion4Sci]

But each time you say "You can do it!" what you're really saying is "I knew a guy who did 3 application cycles ago!"

I disagree... that's a really oversimplified and generalized presumption of what amounts to an extremely variably defined platitude. What you're doing is giving him a shot of positive thinking.

I am reminded of an anecdote when I first started getting into science and math after avoiding them for so long. When I found even the most basic of Trigonometry challenging, my friend would tell me to smile through it, and tell myself I could do it.

Through my undergraduate education I studied motivation and reinforcement as part of my Honors graduation thesis, and there is a nice body of evidence to support the fact that people, when encouraged rather than discouraged, tend to perform better than their control.

When I say, "you can do it", it is never without qualification. However, someone with a poor academic history (HISTORY) but with a strong "then vs. now" and a revised work ethic can certainly accomplish what you deem as impossible.

2.644 is a pretty awful position to be in, and in this case, you are probably exactly right (Not withstanding Academic Forgiveness and the ability to set aside his past completely), but as a general rule, I don't know that I agree with your overall sentiment. If it was, say, 2.944 instead of 2.644, we might be having a different discussion.

I will be the first to admit that not everyone can get into everything. I will never be in the NBA or run a mile in 4 minutes flat, no matter how hard I try, there are certain factors set against me. And for many people, school (pharm, med, law, whatever) is the same... and this could be the same for OP.

Regardless, the information is good to have for the OP.

 

[fuCl]

Passion - the discussion we are having here is 10 fold more useful than text encouragement from strangers so often offered by others on this forum.

My gripes have everything to do with inadequate realism, not pessimism.

I am a believer in positive reinforcement. The road to a professional doctorate is far too long to succeed without exogenous motivators.

Those of us that are almost done with this pharmD thing can provide invaluable advice to individuals who sit in a similar position as the OP, and I believe we have here.

 

[pallywally]

My gripes have everything to do with inadequate realism, not pessimism.

....

Those of us that are almost done with this pharmD thing can provide invaluable advice to individuals who sit in a similar position as the OP, and I believe we have here.

Obviously everyone appreciates your POV and expertise, fuCl, and no doubt your advice is a valuable perspective worth sharing. But what I don't really understand is why you've gone to great lengths to discourage the OP. He doesn't have a zero percent shot, and it's impossible to judge this particular poster and say he doesn't have what it takes.

Aside from being right, what's it to you if people encourage the post to apply? There's no right answer to this, even given your experience. You can speak from your perspective without being criticizing the validity other people's opinions. I think that's for the OP to decide.

 

[b1234]

Many of us get lucky. Many people get into school through atypical or nontraditional routes with histories riddled with inadequacies. I can appreciate that. Its about the person, not the numbers. A non traditional student who has had to work his butt off to get to a 3.0 due to poor past performances has many things going for him that make him a better candidate than a 4.0 pre-pharmer whose hardest course so far is orgo 1. I go to school with many non-traditional students whom on the first day of pharmacy school years ago were 10 times the person I was; maturity, passion, dedication- you name it.

But each time you say "You can do it!" what you're really saying is "I knew a guy who did 3 application cycles ago!" and if you did personally get in with poor numbers remember the context of your acceptance; the application year.

The assumptions that we have made over the past many posts relate to an individual who for an entire undergraduate career achieved a C+ average. Suddenly charged with commitment and motivation he intends to go to school this fall and take new classes and ace them. Keep in mind just how hard it is to get the highest of grades. I don't know many people who can just turn it on like that.

What happens if he achieves a B+ GPA for those courses? Admissions would certainly see an improvement on many fronts- but to say that 2 to 4 years from now when this individual applies it would be enough for admission is a stretch.

2.3GPA X 120credits = 276 "quality points"

now, assuming you take all of the pre-pharmacy prerequisites and get straight A's- lets assume that is 60 credits worth

60 X 3.333 = 200QP + 276QP= 476QP/ 180cr= 2.644GPA

That's a big 8 ball to be behind, guys.

The point is that the OP will be a nontrad with several years between the time when he finished his first BS and when he applies for Pharmacy shcool. That means that while his low undergrad GPA will be viewed negatively - what he does between now and then will matter much more. He will need many things to set himself apart from other applicants in a positve way because he will have that big negative coming from his undergrad GPA, but it is definately doable.

The decision on whether or not he should give up on a career in pharmacy should ultimately be based on if he feels that he is capable of doing what it takes to present himself in such a way as to overcome his (prior) low GPA.

 

[nicolemsm]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDY2I5pni90[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Carboxide]

The point is that the OP will be a nontrad with several years between the time when he finished his first BS and when he applies for Pharmacy shcool. That means that while his low undergrad GPA will be viewed negatively - what he does between now and then will matter much more. He will need many things to set himself apart from other applicants in a positve way because he will have that big negative coming from his undergrad GPA, but it is definately doable.

The decision on whether or not he should give up on a career in pharmacy should ultimately be based on if he feels that he is capable of doing what it takes to present himself in such a way as to overcome his (prior) low GPA.

He graduated in 2008. If he had graduated in 1998, then I would agree with you...but he didn't. He has a bachelor's in bio, so his pre-req GPA is going to be dismal with all the biology classes averaged out (even IF, and that's a BIG IF he makes straight A's when he retakes them). If he retakes 60 full credits, he'll be interviewing about a year and a few months from now - a mere THREE YEARS after he presented extremely poorly on a bachelor's degree.

Three years is NOT A LONG TIME. Thirteen? Yes. Three? Not even close. They will be looking at that GPA closely and with extreme scrutiny, because it is STILL RELEVANT.

 

[Scrubs Fan]

You can't get in with that GPA. A post-bac would be beneficial but I think you can probably just take the pre-reqs as a non-degree seeking student. You also need to get some pharmacy experience- do some volunteering in a pharmacy or get your tech certification and find a tech job.

good advice. i agree.
retake some classes or start taking your Pre reqs. make sure you get A's and B's, bc the idea is that you were unmotivated in the past, but now you're focused, and your grades should reflect that.

Pharm experience is a must. good luck.